well stated

El_Kabong

rip rachel :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JI-axaRF4&eurl=

too bad the idf had to run you over w/ an american made bulldozer supplied by the us government

hailhailkc

El_Kabong wrote:

rip rachel :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JI-axaRF4&eurl=

too bad the idf had to run you over w/ an american made bulldozer supplied by the us government

What difference does it make where the bulldozer was made? I thought you were upset because Israel was killing MORE people than the Palestenian militants, and because Israel was supposedly abusing their superpower status.

I'm just tyring to figure out if your hatred of the IDF stems from the fact that they supposedly kill more Palenstenians than Palenstenians kill Israelis, or perhaps its more deep seeded than that. Like the fact that the United States supports Israel, etc.

Iran and Syria supply Hezzbollah and Hamas with funding, arms and safe haven. Where is your condemnation of Iran and Syria? After all, you said you don't agree with Hamas and Hezbollah killing innocent Israelis.

Abookamongstthemany

hailhailkc wrote:

What difference does it make where the bulldozer was made? I thought you were upset because Israel was killing MORE people than the Palestenian militants, and because Israel was supposedly abusing their superpower status.

I'm just tyring to figure out if your hatred of the IDF stems from the fact that they supposedly kill more Palenstenians than Palenstenians kill Israelis, or perhaps its more deep seeded than that. Like the fact that the United States supports Israel, etc.

Iran and Syria supply Hezzbollah and Hamas with funding, arms and safe haven. Where is your condemnation of Iran and Syria? After all, you said you don't agree with Hamas and Hezbollah killing innocent Israelis.

We do not live in Iran or Syria. Do you think our government should conduct itself to the same standards as your examples?

Why do you overlook the fact that Israel are acting like bullies and pushing around those who have hardly any defense it all? Please don't bring up religion with me. The whole world is not christian and nor should we have to live by your scripture. These people are living in land that they inhabited first. They don't believe the land was promised to the jews so why should they just go along with the forced removal from their homeland? What if Arabs came and pushed you out of your home and then told you you could have the back corner of your backyard but thats it? What if they told you it was promised to them by Allah? What if all you had was a gun to defend yourself and they had a tanks, many guns and a helicopter w/ guns on it? Can you just imagine for one momnet how that must feel?

flywallyfly

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

We do not live in Iran or Syria. Do you think our government should conduct itself to the same standards as your examples?

Why do you overlook the fact that Israel are acting like bullies and pushing around those who have hardly any defense it all? Please don't bring up religion with me. The whole world is not christian and nor should we have to live by your scripture. These people are living in land that they inhabited first. They don't believe the land was promised to the jews so why should they just go along with the forced removal from their homeland? What if Arabs came and pushed you out of your home and then told you you could have the back corner of your backyard but thats it? What if they told you it was promised to them by Allah? What if all you had was a gun to defend yourself and they had a tanks, many guns and a helicopter w/ guns on it? Can you just imagine for one momnet how that must feel?

Does this mean every non-Native American must go back to whatever European country their forefathers came from? How do we reconcile that?

beetle

flywallyfly wrote:

Does this mean every non-Native American must go back to whatever European country their forefathers came from? How do we reconcile that?

with no disrespect to the original poster, now this above post is "well stated"

beetle

flywallyfly wrote:

Does this mean every non-Native American must go back to whatever European country their forefathers came from? How do we reconcile that?

with no disrespect to the original poster, now this above post is "well stated"

Abookamongstthemany

flywallyfly wrote:

Does this mean every non-Native American must go back to whatever European country their forefathers came from? How do we reconcile that?

I didn't agree w/ native americans being killed and forced from their homes, either. I guess there's some ways to make it better for them but no way to give them their lives back. But Israel, on the other hand, continues to do it. They continue to steal land and break the compromises they made as well as murdering these people. It's wrong no matter if it was 200+ years ago or just last week. The point is these types of actions should not be supported. I don't think France should murder the people in Belguim and take their land either. I don't think we shoud support such actions.

beetle

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I didn't agree w/ native americans being killed and forced from their homes, either. I guess there's some ways to make it better for them but no way to give them their lives back. But Israel, on the other hand, continues to do it. They continue to steal land and break the compromises they made as well as murdering these people. It's wrong no matter if it was 200+ years ago or just last week. The point is these types of actions should not be supported. I don't think France should murder the people in Belguim and take their land either. I don't think we shoud support such actions.

what land did israel steal and what compromise is israel break??

El_Kabong

beetle wrote:

what land did israel steal and what compromise is israel break??

gee, i wonder why it's called the occupied territories?

is a map of israel the same as it was in 47? no? then how'd they get that land?

where's the security wall built? not on israeli land.

they broke un resolutions about building settlements on land that was not theirs as well as others

beetle

all that being said, do you at recognize israels right to exist??

fando y lis

"Those damn Jews in Israel."
And Imperialist, Neo Con, American Empire for supporting them...
Maybe we can get some nutjob leftists over there to undermine Israel's right to defend itself..

beetle

oh and israel got teh land that you talk of after they have been attacked for teh past 50yrs DEFEATED whomever attacked them and then occupied the land..has israel ented any conflict unprovoked..???

El_Kabong

beetle wrote:

oh and israel got teh land that you talk of after they have been attacked for teh past 50yrs DEFEATED whomever attacked them and then occupied the land..has israel ented any conflict unprovoked..???

when did this intifada start?

when sharon marched into the 3rd holiest site in islam w/ 1,000 armed guards.

the intifada before that? when they started building illegal settlements in the gaza strip and west bank

RockinInCanada

fando y lis wrote:

"Those damn Jews in Israel."
And Imperialist, Neo Con, American Empire for supporting them...
Maybe we can get some nutjob leftists over there to undermine Israel's right to defend itself..

How is defending youself emcompass blowing away an entire country...if you cannot see that they are going overboard you truly have no idea what is going on....Im no Hezbollah sympathizer but I sure the hell think that Israel saying they are stricly targetting Hezbollah targets is BS....

El_Kabong

beetle wrote:

all that being said, do you at recognize israels right to exist??

hahaha...nice brush off!

do you recognize palestines right to exist?

beetle

are you reffering to when sharon visited the temple mount considered the third holiest site in islam and the hloiest site in judaism, with the pre approved aproval of palestinian officials including arafat himself? and accompanied by 1000 guards due to the threat of violence??

beetle

El_Kabong wrote:

hahaha...nice brush off!

do you recognize palestines right to exist?

right back at you, you neglected to answer me!!!

and i recognize anyones right to live in peace...

lukin2006

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

How is defending youself emcompass blowing away an entire country...if you cannot see that they are going overboard you truly have no idea what is going on....Im no Hezbollah sympathizer but I sure the hell think that Israel saying they are stricly targetting Hezbollah targets is BS....

They were attacked, they have the right to defend themselves, Lebanon obviously supports Hezbollah, so they have made themselves a target.

El_Kabong

beetle wrote:

are you reffering to when sharon visited the temple mount considered the third holiest site in islam and the hloiest site in judaism, with the pre approved aproval of palestinian officials including arafat himself? and accompanied by 1000 guards due to the threat of violence??

also this was right after the peace accords broke down b/c palestinians thought it would divide the Palestinian state into disconnected regions; a situation that would not free them from Israeli occupation and would not make for a truly independent state

The pretext for Sharon's visit of the mosque compound was to check complaints by Israeli archeologists that Muslim religious authorities had vandalized archeological remains beneath the surface of the mount during the conversion of the presumed Solomon's Stables area into a mosque.

Sharon's impending visit was officially announced and approved in advance with many Palestinian officials including Arafat himself, though prior to it some people on both sides protested, because of his controversial political stance. His visit was condemned by the Palestinians as a provocation and an incursion, as was his over 1,000 strong armed bodyguard that arrived on the scene with him in claims that Palestinian protesters threatened his life. Critics claim that Sharon knew that the visit would trigger violence, and that the purpose of his visit was political; Sharon won the February 2001 elections in a landslide.

El_Kabong

beemster wrote:

They were attacked, they have the right to defend themselves, Lebanon obviously supports Hezbollah, so they have made themselves a target.

ya know what's funny?

hezbollah gets a lot of their rockets from iran

under reagan we sold over 2,000 TOW missiles (and other weaponry) to Iran using Israel as the middleman...so, in essence, israel helped sell iran weapons that could very well be hitting israeli cities now

beetle

El_Kabong wrote:

also this was right after the peace accords broke down b/c palestinians thought it would divide the Palestinian state into disconnected regions; a situation that would not free them from Israeli occupation and would not make for a truly independent state

The pretext for Sharon's visit of the mosque compound was to check complaints by Israeli archeologists that Muslim religious authorities had vandalized archeological remains beneath the surface of the mount during the conversion of the presumed Solomon's Stables area into a mosque.

Sharon's impending visit was officially announced and approved in advance with many Palestinian officials including Arafat himself, though prior to it some people on both sides protested, because of his controversial political stance. His visit was condemned by the Palestinians as a provocation and an incursion, as was his over 1,000 strong armed bodyguard that arrived on the scene with him in claims that Palestinian protesters threatened his life. Critics claim that Sharon knew that the visit would trigger violence, and that the purpose of his visit was political; Sharon won the February 2001 elections in a landslide.

you've restated what i have said, as for my question toy you regarding israels right to exist?? any response, or was this a brush off???
(hope your enjoying the open debate as well as i am.)