before we go making judgements about the kidnapped brits...

2

Comments

  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    i don't care if everyone in the world except me and george w bush thought that he lied.

    he didn't

    i don't give a damned about anything other than what I think is right.

    as far as perspectives go, yeah, we are obviously coming from different ones. funny that we both loathe the major networks (except fox, i think they have it down right :))

    I think you it might do you some good to reconsider some of these stances that you think are so 'right'.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
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  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I think you it might do you some good to reconsider some of these stances that you think are so 'right'.

    I could say the same to you...but i think deep down, we all know what is "right" :) To speak otherwise would be irresponsible.
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  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    i don't care if everyone in the world except me and george w bush thought that he lied.

    he didn't

    i don't give a damned about anything other than what I think is right.

    as far as perspectives go, yeah, we are obviously coming from different ones. funny that we both loathe the major networks (except fox, i think they have it down right :))


    how about when he said in a speech that the iaea issued a report saying iraq was 6 months away from having a nuke, a report the iaea never issued, in fact they said not only do they not have the capabilities or materials they didn't even have a nuke program!?

    that's not a lie?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • YourBuddy
    YourBuddy Posts: 59
    Whether or not bush lied is irrelevant, we are at war and will be for some time. The problem on hand is that the Brittish sailors were taken prisoner by Iran. No matter who is right or wrong, this could be the spark to set off a war with Iran and perpetuate A huge war.

    On the sailors i believe that that someone made a mistake, and this should be resolved immediately. Otherwise i see the SAS going in to get the sailors in a non-peaceful manner witch would probably start the aforementioned war which would be bad thing.
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Bush to Blair: "Come on Tony, be the second country to ever use those weapons. It will solve some of the immediate problems for a very long time."
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  • NOCODE#1
    NOCODE#1 Posts: 1,477
    El_Kabong wrote:
    they say they were in international waters...they say they were in iranian waters...we shouldn't believe either just 'because they said so!', they have radar, their coordinates are recorded, why don't we wait until we see those before we use it as any justification for anything silly....
    wasnt this this plot for that horrible Bond movie Tomorrow never dies?
    Let's not be negative now. Thumper has spoken
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    El_Kabong wrote:
    how about when he said in a speech that the iaea issued a report saying iraq was 6 months away from having a nuke, a report the iaea never issued, in fact they said not only do they not have the capabilities or materials they didn't even have a nuke program!?

    that's not a lie?


    i'll take that as a 'yes, that was a ie'

    :D
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • chromiam
    chromiam Posts: 4,114
    El_Kabong wrote:
    they say they were in international waters...they say they were in iranian waters...we shouldn't believe either just 'because they said so!', they have radar, their coordinates are recorded, why don't we wait until we see those before we use it as any justification for anything silly....

    take, for example, this...

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=214683

    in 1988 we shot down an iranian CIVILIAN airliner killing everyone...then:
    we say we were in international waters and thought it was a tomcat, we tried radioing it but it didn't reply so we reacted...which is a L I E

    we were in iranian waters, we did radio it, but on a military frequency, not a civilian airliner frequency...the plane was on a known flight path, it's transponder was working correctly....

    we did this during trying to get a reaction from them...we bush, sr stated publicly that he refused to apologize for our action (and then gave the ppl medals for it)

    so the GPS device showing that the British boats were in Iraqi territorial waters enough evidence for you????? or do want it shown to you via Google maps??
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  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    chromiam wrote:
    so the GPS device showing that the British boats were in Iraqi territorial waters enough evidence for you????? or do want it shown to you via Google maps??

    well, i'd like the gps to be public, not just from their word
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    for fuck's sake iran give britain back their sailors. give them the benefit of the doubt. it's not like there are borders painted on the ocean waters.
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  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    well, one of the british soldiers said they were in iranian waters, so, according to jlew this is 100% truth and can not be discredited
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    El_Kabong wrote:
    well, one of the british soldiers said they were in iranian waters, so, according to jlew this is 100% truth and can not be discredited

    Except that we have NO IDEA if that "confession" was obtained under coersion or not ... Unless maybe you were there, which somehow wouldn't surprise me.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    catefrances wrote:
    for fuck's sake iran give britain back their sailors. give them the benefit of the doubt. it's not like there are borders painted on the ocean waters.

    Expecting a quasiterrorist state to not use quasiterrorist tactics is probably asking a bit much ... Kidnappings are par for the course. Given how many times the West has rolled over and released people in prisoner swaps, Iran is going to try this sort of tactic to see what it can get out of Blair.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Except that we have NO IDEA if that "confession" was obtained under coersion or not ... Unless maybe you were there, which somehow wouldn't surprise me.


    it was a joke, relax! he started a thread about KSM said he was the mastermind behind 9/11 so it made it true simply b/c he said it...so this whacked out theory should apply here, but i'm betting he would not accept it like he did the KSM one
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Expecting a quasiterrorist state to not use quasiterrorist tactics is probably asking a bit much ... Kidnappings are par for the course. Given how many times the West has rolled over and released people in prisoner swaps, Iran is going to try this sort of tactic to see what it can get out of Blair.


    quasiterrorist state? what's the definition/requirements for that?

    was iraq listed as a terrorist state before we invaded or after?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    El_Kabong wrote:
    quasiterrorist state? what's the definition/requirements for that?

    was iraq listed as a terrorist state before we invaded or after?

    Its a term I made up ... :)

    Iran does not have pure motives of any sort, with regards to the non-Islamic world. They arm terrorist groups, are almost certainly contributing to the destabilization of Iraq ... The Iranian government is incredibly loathesome, basically. It will be a great day when the people over there modernize enough to chuck the clerics out of power.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Its a term I made up ... :)
    naturally :D
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Iran does not have pure motives of any sort, with regards to the non-Islamic world. They arm terrorist groups, are almost certainly contributing to the destabilization of Iraq ... The Iranian government is incredibly loathesome, basically. It will be a great day when the people over there modernize enough to chuck the clerics out of power.

    don't we arm terrorist groups that destabilize, too?? weren't we paying bin laden when he created al qaeda? didn't we sell iran thousands of missiles and ran drugs to help pay terrorists in south and central america?

    what about this guy? is he not a terrorist? he only assasinated a government official and helped blow up a passenger airliner

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=234296

    it jsut seems like a lot of times if you're a terrorist or not depends on if you receive us funds
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    El_Kabong wrote:
    naturally :D



    don't we arm terrorist groups that destabilize, too?? weren't we paying bin laden when he created al qaeda? didn't we sell iran thousands of missiles and ran drugs to help pay terrorists in south and central america?

    what about this guy? is he not a terrorist? he only assasinated a government official and helped blow up a passenger airliner

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=234296

    it jsut seems like a lot of times if you're a terrorist or not depends on if you receive us funds

    And if you're right? Doesn't change my argument in the slightest. Since I have indeed studied some history, I am aware that the Iranians have received U.S. funding in the past. Your issue seems to be that you treat terrorists as if they were not autonomous beings with their own goals and warped ideologies. You seem to suggest that American funding magically creates these people, which is where you and I disagree, even if we CAN agree on the basic argument that terrorists should not receive any form of U.S. support.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Your issue seems to be that you treat terrorists as if they were not autonomous beings with their own goals and warped ideologies.

    Very well said.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Did the US blow up Iran yet?

    let me know....k

    thx
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