the origins of jesus, the end times, christianity and every other religion...

El_Kabong

i found this very interesting, this is part one of zeitgeist (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com ) of 3 parts...this is the only one dealing w/ religion, the rest was using fear as a social control method and the 3rd part is about the ppl behind the curtains (bankers/federal reserve, industrialists....)

anyway, it lays a pretty good claim that jesus, christianity and pretty much every other religion is lifted from paganism and astrology and the whole myth of jesus and the end times and all that is based on astrology...it makes the claim that the end times has been mistaken for what it really means, it does not mean the end of the world as a lot of christians believe but the end of the age...the changing from the age of pisces to the age of aquarius and points out bible quotes that point to that...

watch (just 26 min, but veeeeery interesting) and discuss!!!

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8461754114455236037&hl=en

LikeAnOcean

lots of good points..

fyi, I'm agnostic. I don't believe, but I don't not believe.. I just wish people would not go nuts over religion. I think it ok to have, but not exploit.

Toolgarden

Amen.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: read Joseph Campbell. Is it coincidence that his initials are JC? I wish I hadn't had so much to drink tonight, I would contribute more.

ok.

Collin

Sounds interesting, I'll watch it when I have a little bit more time...

Have you seen Bible Uncovered on National Geographic?

Ahnimus

Yea, the Bible originates from paganism, which originates from ancient astrological stories created for the propagation of knowledge concerning agriculture.

The in-between is myth-making by investors.

IndianSummer

El_Kabong wrote:

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8461754114455236037&hl=en

can u give me the name of this video.

jlew24asu

I think we should implement a dont ask dont tell policy with religion

IndianSummer

jlew24asu wrote:

dont ask dont tell policy

whats a "dont ask dont tell" policy ??

my2hands

El_Kabong wrote:

the rest was using fear as a social control method

you can see plenty of evidence of that in the US military thread

pussy fucking americans scared of the boogey man

mxaaron

This theory of the origins of Christianity seems to be popping up frequently: movies like The God Who Wasn't There, numerous websites such as Jesusneverexisted.com, and so on.

Instead of trying to refute these claims, I will instead refer readers to several books which deal with the "jesus is taken from pagan myths" theories (not that Im avoiding the issue, but rather I respect their scholarship)
I reccomend "Reinventing Jesus" (the authors escape me at the moment), anything by N.T. Wright (very scholary), or perhaps some Ben Witherington.

Look them up on Amazon if you have some extra cash to invest. If not, I suppose you can continue to believe that these theories are bulletproof and that the case concernig Christ is closed.

Cosmo

mxaaron wrote:

This theory of the origins of Christianity seems to be popping up frequently: movies like The God Who Wasn't There, numerous websites such as Jesusneverexisted.com, and so on.

Instead of trying to refute these claims, I will instead refer readers to several books which deal with the "jesus is taken from pagan myths" theories (not that Im avoiding the issue, but rather I respect their scholarship)
I reccomend "Reinventing Jesus" (the authors escape me at the moment), anything by N.T. Wright (very scholary), or perhaps some Ben Witherington.

Look them up on Amazon if you have some extra cash to invest. If not, I suppose you can continue to believe that these theories are bulletproof and that the case concernig Christ is closed.

...
If David Blaine and/or Criss Angel were around 2000 years ago... doing the magic tricks they do in New York and Vegas... except they did these same tricks in Jerusalem or Damacus... do you think they might have a Religion based upon them today?

jlew24asu

IndianSummer wrote:

whats a "dont ask dont tell" policy ??

I mean we should all keep our religious beliefs to ourselves.

what is so hard to understand what I mean by that?

El_Kabong

Cosmo wrote:

...
If David Blaine and/or Criss Angel were around 2000 years ago... doing the magic tricks they do in New York and Vegas... except they did these same tricks in Jerusalem or Damacus... do you think they might have a Religion based upon them today?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sBQLq2VmZcA

El_Kabong

IndianSummer wrote:

can u give me the name of this video.

this is part one of zeitgeist (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com ) of 3 parts

chopitdown

While there are several sources that suggest that Mithraism included a notion of rebirth, they are all post-Christian. The earliest...dates from the end of the second century A.D."2

Therefore, even though there are similarities between Christianity and Mithraism, it is up to the critics to prove that one borrowed from the other. But, considering that the writers of the New Testament were Jews who shunned pagan philosophies and that the Old Testament has all of the themes found in Christianity, it is far more probable that if any borrowing was done, it was done by the pagan religions that wanted to emulate the success of Christianity.

http://www.carm.org/evidence/mithra.htm
http://www.bede.org.uk/frazer.htm
http://www.probe.org/content/view/781/77/

Ahnimus

chopitdown wrote:

While there are several sources that suggest that Mithraism included a notion of rebirth, they are all post-Christian. The earliest...dates from the end of the second century A.D."2

Therefore, even though there are similarities between Christianity and Mithraism, it is up to the critics to prove that one borrowed from the other. But, considering that the writers of the New Testament were Jews who shunned pagan philosophies and that the Old Testament has all of the themes found in Christianity, it is far more probable that if any borrowing was done, it was done by the pagan religions that wanted to emulate the success of Christianity.

http://www.carm.org/evidence/mithra.htm
http://www.bede.org.uk/frazer.htm
http://www.probe.org/content/view/781/77/

The bolded text is factually in accurate. Noah's Ark story for example dates back to the Epic of Gilgamesh (2500 B.C.). Pointing out a single error in some literary works will not prove the bolded statement.

That statement also doesn't explain Isis-Mari, Devaki, Maya and so on. It only talks about Mithraism. The reason these Christian apologists use Mithraism is because the area is very disputable, but there are many other traditions which aren't spoken about by apologists. Or at least all I've seen.

chopitdown

Ahnimus wrote:

The bolded text is factually in accurate. Noah's Ark story for example dates back to the Epic of Gilgamesh (2500 B.C.). Pointing out a single error in some literary works will not prove the bolded statement.

That statement also doesn't explain Isis-Mari, Devaki, Maya and so on. It only talks about Mithraism. The reason these Christian apologists use Mithraism is because the area is very disputable, but there are many other traditions which aren't spoken about by apologists. Or at least all I've seen.

i posted some other links that address the concept that is presented. Here is one that discusses some of the issues as well.
http://www.blackapologetics.com/bamanswerantiquity.html

The quote that I posted mostly had to do with the resurrection component that other religions had, it wasn't meant to be taken as dealing with the Ark.

mxaaron

Cosmo wrote:

...
If David Blaine and/or Criss Angel were around 2000 years ago... doing the magic tricks they do in New York and Vegas... except they did these same tricks in Jerusalem or Damacus... do you think they might have a Religion based upon them today?

I see little relevance to the post I made, which was simply to inform the readers of the topic of some good, scholary, works which discuss Jesus, his origins, resurrection, and so on. To be honest, I was not expecting a response to my post; there was nothing to respond to, for I like I said, I simply suggested a few books for those who were interested. But,alas, I recieve a response like this...

But to answer your question, there were many magicians in antiquity, some of which were mentioned in the Bible. Is your argument that Jesus was nothing more than a magician, who impressed onlookers? If so, you must provide some evidence for you claim, which unfortunatley you haven't provided. One might assume the "miracles" described in the Gospels were nothing more than illusions shown to gullible onlookers, but this requires that 1. There must have been a man Jesus who did these things
Many (such as Jesusneverexisted.com) are not willing to accept that.
and
2. The Gospels must be at the very least somewhat trustworthy (or else you could not use them for your theory)
The reason Christ has a religion based upon him is not because of his miracles, whether you believe them to be supernatural or not, but rather the fact he claimed to be the Messiah, a Savior. His miracles were secondary to the crucifixion and resurrection.

Aaron

Smellyman2

Very interesting video. The evidence in the video is very plausible, unlike the evidence for Christianity and other religions.

mxaaron

Smellyman wrote:

Very interesting video. The evidence in the video is very plausible, unlike the evidence for Christianity and other religions.

What do you mean by evidence being plausible or implausible?

citizen_drew

I always get confused about the beginning and ending of ages on my calendar, I always think it’s every 2500 years, not 2150 as stated in the video…Good to know.

Also my Indian friend who happens to be a devout Sikh sometimes likes to bring up some of his beliefs, the ones that come to mind after watching the video are:
There is only one God...
And that all religions just have a different viewpoint or perspective of this same God.
The universe is the temple of God.

Apparently they all have the same birthday, I wonder if that’s along the lines of what he was talking about... Gurus are always talking in code messin with me head.

Interesting film