1/2 of troops suffer from some from of ptsd?

El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
edited June 2007 in A Moving Train
during a break at work is glenn beck and tonights guest was toby keith...who plays the victim of the fall out over....supporting the troops...did he forget the words to 'courtesy of the red, white and blue'??? he said he wasn't going to make excuses for his patriotism and how he was 'trapped in the crosshairs' of supporting the troops...that song went beyond just supporting the troops

and what does that even mean to ppl?? seriously?

anyway, i thought of the video i posted of the iraq vets talking about the general rule was if an ied went off just open fire at 'anything that moves', if you're in a dangerous area and someone looks suspiscious...better to be safe....it's no wonder 655,000 innocents are dead, i'm sure infighting takes a toll, but just imagine the firepower some of those vehicles have, not that a round from their rifle couldn't do enough damage to someone who maybe just happened to live a few houses down, or was coming home from work, going to school....

how can we put so many of our children through that?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/19/AR2007061901907.html?hpid=topnews

This month, however, the State Department launched the first survey of all State personnel who have served since 2002 in "unaccompanied posts," or areas deemed so dangerous that family members are not allowed. The one-month survey is being carried on the department's internal Web site, and responses are anonymous. So far, half of the respondents said they experienced irritability and unusual hostility, and 35 to 52 percent said they suffered from one or more symptoms common to PTSD -- including social withdrawal, isolation, apathy, insomnia and anxiety -- during or after their assignments.

"Preliminary results from the State Department survey suggest that it may affect some 40 percent or more, similar to what has been reported for the U.S. military," Kashkett told lawmakers.



how can we put them in that environment? let alone the 'fuck it' attitude when they come home? more than 1/2 a million iraqis are dead and how many of ours are we scarring for life? on top of the dead, on top of the maimed

it's fucking disgusting
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
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Comments

  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    It is very sad that the government won't do more for these people who are fighting for our freedoms.

    I couldn't get in the front door of my house without my father waking up and asking who is there and he slept a floor above where the door was. Yeah, people who think that war is great to be in have not ever been around a vet who has actually seen live duty. They should be advised to a shrink to talk as soon as they get back and if they need to air it out daily, weekly or whatever they should have a free kick at the can.

    Of course there are drugs that can suppress the depress. And that is the other side of not being able to just let it all out.
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  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I don't believe that stat.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    know1 wrote:
    I don't believe that stat.

    Why?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    know1 wrote:
    I don't believe that stat.


    Have you served and came back with nary a problem to dispel this number?
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    even flow? wrote:
    Have you served and came back with nary a problem to dispel this number?

    So for me to be qualified to not believe it, I have to have served?

    Does that mean for you and other to believe the stat, you should have served as well?

    I'm just doubtful of it, that's all. We've had wars and conflicts before that I would consider much worse than this and didn't have rates of PTSD that high.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    know1 wrote:
    So for me to be qualified to not believe it, I have to have served?

    Does that mean for you and other to believe the stat, you should have served as well?

    I'm just doubtful of it, that's all. We've had wars and conflicts before that I would consider much worse than this and didn't have rates of PTSD that high.


    As my above comment shows about being around a person who has served.

    As for the wars before. It got shoved under the rug as it is now. People are a little more prone to question the government now then they were back in the day.

    I think that ANY war is just as "worse" as any other war.

    I guess a cop dosen't have any more stress then a person who works on a computer day to day. It is just a job, right?
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    know1 wrote:
    I don't believe that stat.

    I believe it. It does say some form of ptsd, not disabling form. I think people can have mild forms of it and seemingly function just fine. Of course, they may not even know they have it. I've known people like that.

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  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    http://www.nvf.org/facts.html

    Snip: The Mental Strain of War: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or PTSD

    * The National Center for PTSD estimates that one of every 20 WW II veterans has suffered symptoms such as bad dreams, irritability, and flashbacks.

    * A Korean Researcher has claimed that as many as 30% of US Troops who fought in Korea and are still alive today may have symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (Jack Epstein, San Francisco Chronicle, “US Wars and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder,” 6/22/05).

    * The National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Survey (1986-1988) found that more than 30% of Vietnam Veterans (more than 1 million) have suffered from symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Distorder (PTSD).

    * The VA Reports that in 2005, only 215,871 Veterans received disability payments for PTSD. However statistics suggest that due to the stigmas and barriers associated with getting help, these numbers likely represent only a small fraction of the total number of vets with PTSD.

    * The General Accounting Office (GAO) has reported that the VA does not know how many vets are currently being treated for PTSD. As a result, the VA is can not determine whether the services are adequate, or whether it will be able to handle the new influx of vets with PTSD.

    * Inflation adjusted spending for VA mental health services has declined by 25 percent over the past seven years, and numerous experts have expressed concern about the system's capabilities to care for the full spectrum of readjustment needs (including mental health) of the newest generation of U.S. veterans.
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  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    gue_barium wrote:
    I believe it. It does say some form of ptsd, not disabling form. I think people can have mild forms of it and seemingly function just fine. Of course, they may not even know they have it. I've known people like that.

    Good point. I can see that.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    know1 wrote:
    So for me to be qualified to not believe it, I have to have served?

    Does that mean for you and other to believe the stat, you should have served as well?

    I'm just doubtful of it, that's all. We've had wars and conflicts before that I would consider much worse than this and didn't have rates of PTSD that high.
    ...
    So, are you are basically saying that you would be able to witness something completely heinous... like your friend getting killed and having his blood and flesh and bone fragments splattered all over you... and you would be completely unphased by the experience? Maybe not that drastic... how about hosing out the bed of a pickup that carried your brother's dead body to the morgue? Not that drastic... let's say you were caravaning with some friends and you were following the car carrying your wife and it was broad sided by an 18 wheeler and you had to try to pry her body from the wreckage? This wouldn't screw you up?
    Remember, the military is a brotherhood. They are brothers and form close bonds with each other. To lose a member of your unit is to lose a family member. you are NOt human if it doesn't affect you in some form.
    ...
    Also... Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome existed in other wars and conflicts. It just went unreported. That does not mean it doesn't exist.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    So, are you are basically saying that you would be able to witness something completely heinous... like your friend getting killed and having his blood and flesh and bone fragments splattered all over you... and you would be completely unphased by the experience? Maybe not that drastic... how about hosing out the bed of a pickup that carried your brother's dead body to the morgue? Not that drastic... let's say you were caravaning with some friends and you were following the car carrying your wife and it was broad sided by an 18 wheeler and you had to try to pry her body from the wreckage? This wouldn't screw you up?
    Remember, the military is a brotherhood. They are brothers and form close bonds with each other. To lose a member of your unit is to lose a family member. you are NOt human if it doesn't affect you in some form.
    ...
    Also... Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome existed in other wars and conflicts. It just went unreported. That does not mean it doesn't exist.

    So then, we shouldnt be shocked nor surprised by this high number of sufferers of PTSS, I mean, it is a war. Of course they suffer from it. Anyone in active combat duty is going to suffer from it at some level. Hopefully there's room in the budget for helping them back into "normal" society.

    I know of people who collect massive amounts of money from the govt. for being "depressed", or "disabled", who clearly arent. Give that money to rehabbing the soldiers, our citizens who really deserve it.
    Why go home

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  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    know1 wrote:
    I don't believe that stat.

    Its probably accurate. Up to a full 1/3rd of people exposed to a trauma will show at least some PTSD symptoms (if not the full blown diagnosis). If we are talking combat (as opposed to car accidents and such), the figure is much higher. Add to that participation in an unpopular war ala Vietnam? Now 50% seems LOW.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    So then, we shouldnt be shocked nor surprised by this high number of sufferers of PTSS, I mean, it is a war. Of course they suffer from it. Anyone in active combat duty is going to suffer from it at some level. Hopefully there's room in the budget for helping them back into "normal" society.

    I know of people who collect massive amounts of money from the govt. for being "depressed", or "disabled", who clearly arent. Give that money to rehabbing the soldiers, our citizens who really deserve it.
    ...
    That's what i say. We ask a lot of our soldiers... and we have ALWAYS asked a lot from them. They see shit we will probably never come close to witnessing in our lifetimes. i feel we owe it to them.
    I think if a combat soldier says he's suffering... we should believe him and treat him. Or does it question him and tell him to just forget about it? What does a 'Grateful Nation' do?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • If war is causing so many to become mentally disturbed, many to the point where they are unable to function properly in society....we should really take a long, hard look at our eagerness to support and go to war and stop and think... is this really necessary?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    If war is causing so many to become mentally disturbed, many to the point where they are unable to function properly in society....we should really take a long, hard look at our eagerness to support and go to war and stop and think... is this really necessary?


    I think history, has shown yes, it is. Sad as it is, as horrible as it is, and as much as we dislike it, war is necessary. Debate if you will the necessity of THIS one, but, it is like death and taxes. Its inevitable. Noone's "eager" to support and go to war. Some simply accept its inevitablity/necessity, and others don't.
    Why go home

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  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    I think history, has shown yes, it is. Sad as it is, as horrible as it is, and as much as we dislike it, war is necessary. Debate if you will the necessity of THIS one, but, it is like death and taxes. Its inevitable. Noone's "eager" to support and go to war. Some simply accept its inevitablity/necessity, and others don't.

    War can be necessary. I still believe that war in response to 9-11 was necessary. But this particular war? That's highly debatable.
  • I think history, has shown yes, it is. Sad as it is, as horrible as it is, and as much as we dislike it, war is necessary. Debate if you will the necessity of THIS one, but, it is like death and taxes. Its inevitable. Noone's "eager" to support and go to war. Some simply accept its inevitablity/necessity, and others don't.


    You're right...I don't accept it's inevitability or necessity. There's always other ways of solving problems besides force and violence.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    You're right...I don't accept it's inevitability or necessity. There's always other ways of solving problems besides force and violence.

    This is true only if everyone is willing to listen to reason and choose a peaceful solution. Often doesn't happen, I am afraid.
  • This is true only if everyone is willing to listen to reason and choose a peaceful solution. Often doesn't happen, I am afraid.

    It takes much more effort and understanding than us as humans have been willing to give. All that can change, I believe.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    ptsd has become really popular in the past 20 years because you can collect disability. rosie odonnel got ptsd because of columbine from 3 states away. people claim ptsd because they saw a car accident or some other traumatic event. since a good number of non-military personel claim ptsd it's no wonder half of military personel claim it too. i believe it exists but not in the numbers people claim.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    know1 and onelongsong, what % do you think it is true for?

    even if it's 5%, why put them through such things? imagine living in that climate for 18 months every hour of your day, the violence, the deaths, the lawlesness...
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    El_Kabong wrote:
    know1 and onelongsong, what % do you think it is true for?

    even if it's 5%, why put them through such things? imagine living in that climate for 18 months every hour of your day, the violence, the deaths, the lawlesness...

    i have as hard a time imagining living there now, as I would have trying to imagine living there under Saddams rule.
    Why go home

    www.myspace.com/jensvad
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    El_Kabong wrote:
    know1 and onelongsong, what % do you think it is true for?

    even if it's 5%, why put them through such things? imagine living in that climate for 18 months every hour of your day, the violence, the deaths, the lawlesness...

    Everybody knows I'm against all wars, but what would you have the military do? They signed up for combat. Should we just always keep them home for fear that a few of them might get PTSD? If we're doing that, we might as well disband the military completely - which I wish we could do, but it's probably never going to happen.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    El_Kabong wrote:
    know1 and onelongsong, what % do you think it is true for?

    even if it's 5%, why put them through such things? imagine living in that climate for 18 months every hour of your day, the violence, the deaths, the lawlesness...

    i live in that climate. it's been 117F already this summer and it's expected to get warmer. it did cool down to 98F at night though. if you look at the police blotter for phoenix; you'll see that every time i go to phoenix i experience more violence than the soldiers in iraq. thus i carry a gun when i visit phoenix. more people have been killed by drunk drivers in the us then soldiers killed in iraq during the same time period. furthermore; when they enlisted; they knew it was a snake when they picked it up. just as police know they will be shot at and firemen know they will be put in danger at a moments notice. it's part of the job they chose. i raise the most dangerous animal in north america. i'm put in danger every day. i chose this life as they chose theirs.
    i was diagnosed with ptsd because of my brain surgery. i had nightmares and relived the experience daily. i saw it as a medical condition i had to beat. not a reason to feel sorry for myself and collect disability. i do have compassion for those with real ptsd. i've seen it at it's worse from a friend shot up in vietnam. i've also seen someone collecting social security because they got ptsd from witnessing a fatal accident.
    i'd say 40% are pushing for a medical discharge just to get out of iraq. IMO of course.
  • I would think having to function daily in a life/death scenario would be essentially harmless to you like sitting and watching TV on the couch...

    PTSD?

    wow...surprising...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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    (\__/)
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  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    I would think having to function daily in a life/death scenario would be essentially harmless to you like sitting and watching TV on the couch...

    PTSD?

    wow...surprising...

    every time you get into your car you enter a life or death situation. looking at the number of home invasions; you're not safe sitting on your couch watching the tele either.
  • every time you get into your car you enter a life or death situation. looking at the number of home invasions; you're not safe sitting on your couch watching the tele either.


    Well that sure isn't going to give me PTSD any time soon. hehe
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Well that sure isn't going to give me PTSD any time soon. hehe

    and at least no one sent you there based on lies.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Well that sure isn't going to give me PTSD any time soon. hehe

    unless you can predict the future; you can't say that. you could witness an accident today and see mangled kids being pulled from the wreckage and have it effect you. you can have nightmares for months reliving that experience every day. that my friend is ptsd.
  • and at least no one sent you there based on lies.

    Would you lie....to me?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
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