Conservatives on McCain...

Pacomc79

polaris wrote:

absolutely ... its just i'm of the opinion that the christian right haven't hijacked the party - it's just that the party have used the christian right ...

unfortunately fundamentalists are fairly easily led.


your earlier point is what I was talking about... we basically right now are in a cycle where "change" just changes which corporations and special interest groups get pandered too... the status quo is basically maintained.

mammasan

polaris wrote:

absolutely ... its just i'm of the opinion that the christian right haven't hijacked the party - it's just that the party have used the christian right ...

I have to disagree with you. The Christian right has absolutely hijacked the party. Let's take the Terri Shiavo case as an example. Traditional conservatives would have never even thought about getting the federal government involved in that situation. This new conservative philosophy jumped into the fold head first. The Republican in congress met for an emergency session in order to intervene in the case. The president came back from vacation early just to sign off on the proposal. This is all because the Christian right was up in arms about this woman's impending death. Look how the Republican candidate pander to the Christian right during the primaries. Look how President Bush wanted to amend the Constitution because of same sex marriage. This is all done because the Christian right has taken over that party. No true conservative would have ever intervened in the Shiavo case or even entertained the thought of amending the constitution because of same sex marriage. The Christian rights agenda has become the agenda of the Republican party.

Pacomc79

mammasan wrote:

I have to disagree with you. The Christian right has absolutely hijacked the party. Let's take the Terri Shiavo case as an example. Traditional conservatives would have never even thought about getting the federal government involved in that situation. This new conservative philosophy jumped into the fold head first. The Republican in congress met for an emergency session in order to intervene in the case. The president came back from vacation early just to sign off on the proposal. This is all because the Christian right was up in arms about this woman's impending death. Look how the Republican candidate pander to the Christian right during the primaries. Look how President Bush wanted to amend the Constitution because of same sex marriage. This is all done because the Christian right has taken over that party. No true conservative would have ever intervened in the Shiavo case or even entertained the thought of amending the constitution because of same sex marriage. The Christian rights agenda has become the agenda of the Republican party.

indeed.... see abortion.

polaris

mammasan wrote:

I have to disagree with you. The Christian right has absolutely hijacked the party. Let's take the Terri Shiavo case as an example. Traditional conservatives would have never even thought about getting the federal government involved in that situation. This new conservative philosophy jumped into the fold head first. The Republican in congress met for an emergency session in order to intervene in the case. The president came back from vacation early just to sign off on the proposal. This is all because the Christian right was up in arms about this woman's impending death. Look how the Republican candidate pander to the Christian right during the primaries. Look how President Bush wanted to amend the Constitution because of same sex marriage. This is all done because the Christian right has taken over that party. No true conservative would have ever intervened in the Shiavo case or even entertained the thought of amending the constitution because of same sex marriage. The Christian rights agenda has become the agenda of the Republican party.

but what have they actually done for the christian right besides these face gestures? ... abortion, same sex marriage, etc ... are all where they were at pre-bush ...

this administrations impact is best defined by the war on terror and the exploding defecit - how are they related to the christian right?? ... it's about their handling of appointments and failures in domestic issues as well as foreign policy - these have nothing to do with the CR ... they are the ones that have been used ... they are the ones that look the other way while people are dying for no good reason just as long as bush continues to pay them these small comforts ...

floyd1975

mammasan wrote:

Well the problem is that conservative no longer means the same as it did in the world of politics. Where once a conservative was someone who wanted limited government, less government spending and less taxes. This is no longer the case. Conservative now means having Christian morals and beliefs, spending on top of more spending, and increasing the size and scope of government to the point where it is monitoring what transpires in your own bedroom. McCain is more in line with the old conservative way which just will not do when it comes to the modern day Jesus Conservatives.

I don't even see McCain as much in line with the traditional conservatives either. Traditional conservatives still had a belief that the Government is not always the best answer. BCRA and a government office created to oversee boxing do not fall into line with that philosophy. This is what is also pissing off many conservatives.

jeffbr

mammasan wrote:

My girlfriend was telling me about a good book she read about how the Christian right hijacked and is basically destroying the Republican party. The Republican party has strayed far from it's core beliefs in order to please a very vocal and organized minority of it's base.

What is the name of the book? I would like to read it. I lived it, and can tell you that at the grassroots level the party was hijacked by the Robertson fundie nuts, who organized a hell of movement at the precinct level. The caucus meetings were filled with people who proclaimed their acceptance of Jesus into their hearts. If you didn't utter those words, you had no chance of being elected a delegate to the county or state conventions. They would put up their slate of candidates and effectively push the slate through. I bailed from the GOP a couple of decades ago when I couldn't take the jesus freaks anymore.

I understand what Polaris is saying as well. I think the neocons like Cheney were able to play to the fundies and use them. The fundies are amazing organizers and hard workers, but intellectually are pretty weak.

norm

polaris wrote:

absolutely ... its just i'm of the opinion that the christian right haven't hijacked the party - it's just that the party have used the christian right ...

well not really....my dad worked for the nevada republican party back in the late '80s early 90's......this was when the christians started "infiltrating" the party....they started local and worked their way up.....and they are just as sleezy as the corporate fatcats.....i'm not gonna go into details (mostly cuz i can't really remember them - i was in college at the time so i wasn't around that much ) but their shenanigans made my dad so sick he quit working for the party and pretty much predicted was has happened to the gop....