Just how bad is the war going, really?

rebornFixer

Of course it is going bad ... But as bad as the media makes it out to be?

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Opinion
In battle for hearts and minds, Iraqi insurgents are doing well
By John Hughes, Wed Jun 20, 4:00 AM ET
Provo, Utah - In 2005 Al Qaeda's No. 2 man, Ayman al-Zawahiri, wrote a letter to the then top insurgent leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. "[M]ore than half of this battle," he wrote, "is taking place in the battlefield of the media.... [W]e are in a media battle, in a race for the hearts and minds of our umma [people]."


As the struggle in Iraq between the insurgents on the one hand and US military and Iraqi security forces on the other reaches a climactic phase, it is clear that the insurgents, far from being a band of crude guerilla fighters, have taken the Al Qaeda leader's injunction to heart and have coupled the tactics of terror with a sophisticated knowledge and use of modern media.

Their command of the Internet, their use of television, their release and timing of material calculated to be picked up and used by Arab and Western TV outlets and news agencies, indicates a high degree of planning and professionalism.

When US forces stormed into Iraq bent on toppling Saddam Hussein, the Pentagon adopted a new and enlightened policy toward press coverage. US reporters were embedded into combat units and, with the aid of modern communications techniques, sent dramatic real-time coverage of a brilliant military campaign to millions of spellbound Americans back home. Journalists-turned-military-reporters shared the same hardships and dangers of the troops, some losing their lives in the process of reporting the story. Censorship was minimal, designed to keep sensitive information about troop movements from giving any help to the enemy. By contrast, the propaganda efforts of Mr. Hussein's information ministry were laughable, with "Baghdad Bob" continuing to proclaim victory even as US tanks were entering the Iraqi capital.

In the aftermath of the war, fewer US correspondents were embedded with US military units, and the story took a different direction. The focus was on attempts to build a democratic political system and repair an infrastructure both neglected by Hussein and then damaged even more during the fighting. Then came more negative stories of US mistakes and the Pentagon's unpreparedness for the enormity of problems in the postwar occupation. Finally, Iraq lapsed into violence, with car bombings and assassinations and hostage-taking providing a daily litany of horror. The occupying US soldiers began to take ever more casualties as did US and other foreign civilian workers and journalists, whose fatalities soon numbered more than in any other war.

They included brave Iraqi journalists and cameramen working for the Americans at great peril.

Critics in the Bush administration charged that images of chaos and violence were overshadowing stories of a more positive nature: of schools that were being opened, hospitals that were being rebuilt, and Iraqis who were coming forward to be policemen.

Now some US military officers, too, charge that a clever enemy media campaign is gaining traction and that the US is losing the war in information about battlefield operations.

A Marine officer whose credibility I trust cites an operation of success in the Fallujah region earlier this month that was reported as a disaster by US and British media companies. His unit had established a new precinct headquarters for Iraqi police, Army troops, and US Marines to patrol and protect a dedicated area. It was well received by the local populace and almost 200 Iraqis volunteered for police recruitment. Insurgents sought to disrupt it but were routed.

Meanwhile, in a separate firefight at a makeshift suicide vehicle factory, three separate suicide bombers were killed, two suicide trucks were discovered and blown up, and foreign and other fighters were killed or captured. On the defending side, one civilian and one policeman were wounded, with no US or other casualties. "The enemy was killed in his tracks; his best weapon was discovered before it could cause any harm," says the officer, "but Western media reported no enemy killed in these operations, 28 civilians killed, and 50 civilians wounded. We are getting demolished," the Marine officer says, "by nefarious enemy media outlets … 'reporters' or 'sources' for Arab and other news agencies either on insurgent payrolls or who have known sympathies with insurgent operations, and by collective Western media that are often being manipulated by enemy elements. What incredible economy of effort the enemy is afforded when US media is their megaphone. Why spend precious resources on developing your own propaganda machine when you can make your opponent's own news outlets scream your message louder than you could ever have hoped to do independently?"

Clearly the insurgents have taken to heart the message that their war is a war of words as well as arms.

Byrnzie

reborncareerist wrote:

We are getting demolished," the Marine officer says, "by nefarious enemy media outlets … 'reporters' or 'sources' for Arab and other news agencies either on insurgent payrolls or who have known sympathies with insurgent operations, and by collective Western media that are often being manipulated by enemy elements.

Well, that wraps it up then I suppose. The enemy is the media, who are either on insurgent payrolls, or who have insurgent sympathies. Everything is actually nice and rosy in Iraq. We can all sleep soundly now.

Cosmo

Security. Nothing is going to progress until there is security in Iraq. All of Iraq.
How? How do you secure this place?
Soldiers... GOOD Soldiers... not soldiers who are aligned with Clerics or politicians. You have to go into neighborhoods... get the bad guys and STAY in the neighborhoods to keep the bad guys out. When it is safe to restore water and power, then rebuilding can operate full bore.
It is going to take more soldiers... which means more casualties and a hell of a lot more money. But, it CAN be done.
...
Oh and tell the fucking President and that minion of Satan named Condi to stay the fuck out of managing this mess... just give the military the resources (men, money and machinery) and they will get the fucking job done... you asshole politicians... STAY THE FUCK OUT!!!

binger

Cosmo wrote:

Security. Nothing is going to progress until there is security in Iraq. All of Iraq.
How? How do you secure this place?
Soldiers... GOOD Soldiers... not soldiers who are aligned with Clerics or politicians. You have to go into neighborhoods... get the bad guys and STAY in the neighborhoods to keep the bad guys out. When it is safe to restore water and power, then rebuilding can operate full bore.
It is going to take more soldiers... which means more casualties and a hell of a lot more money. But, it CAN be done.
...
Oh and tell the fucking President and that minion of Satan named Condi to stay the fuck out of managing this mess... just give the military the resources (men, money and machinery) and they will get the fucking job done... you asshole politicians... STAY THE FUCK OUT!!!

It's been 4 years. We might be out of men, money and machinery.

El_Kabong

Byrnzie wrote:

Well, that wraps it up then I suppose. The enemy is the media, who are either on insurgent payrolls, or who have insurgent sympathies. Everything is actually nice and rosy in Iraq. We can all sleep soundly now.

wow, a battle of crypto-zionists vs crypto-insurgents!!! :eek:

Cosmo

binger wrote:

It's been 4 years. We might be out of men, money and machinery.

...
IF it actually IS as important as the President and the 457 people who are running for President... and the other politicians and the cable media pundits... and the War supporters and the ones who say we NEED TO WIN this thing.... say it is... then, we need to get serious about it... bite the mother fucking bullet and DO IT.
Otherwise, get the fuck out because doing the half-ass, pansy-ass, on the cheap method the way we've been... ain't doing shit.

inmytree

this article is great news...since the media is reporting things incorrectly, things must be lollipops and butterflys...

I guess we can start pulling out our troops and be done with this mess...

right...?

Cosmo

inmytree wrote:

this article is great news...since the media is reporting things incorrectly, things must be lollipops and butterflys...

I guess we can start pulling out our troops and be done with this mess...

right...?

...
That's what I am wondering... IF it IS so fucking rosey over there (it's all a liberal JEW media ploy to make it look bad)... then, why aren't our guys coming home?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Naw....don't worry....it's all pretty fucking great really.

really it is....war is beautiful.

watching all the pretty blood flow

...ahh

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

Well, that wraps it up then I suppose. The enemy is the media, who are either on insurgent payrolls, or who have insurgent sympathies. Everything is actually nice and rosy in Iraq. We can all sleep soundly now.

the author never said Iraq was nice and rosy.

jlew24asu

Cosmo wrote:

...
That's what I am wondering... IF it IS so fucking rosey over there (it's all a liberal JEW media ploy to make it look bad)... then, why aren't our guys coming home?

again. the author never said it was rosy. is that the word of the day?

it was actually nice to read something positive that might be going on over there. schools, army units, brave iraqis stepping forward, etc.

why does it seem like everyone is rooting for america to loose?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

inmytree wrote:

things must be lollipops and butterflys...

ssshhh....not so loud...It's only supposed to be like that in here remember...

someone please pass cotton candy...

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

why does it seem like everyone is rooting for america to loose?

Like it was ever possible for them to 'win'. Sadly war, and especially wars of occupation fought merely for the financial benefit of a few rich and powerful crooks, never turn out rosy. Still, never mind, just get the media to spin a threat to our existence, wave a few flags, and then everyone will get behind it. What morons people are. No wonder Jesus never came back. He's probably huddled up on Mars somewhere playing dodge ball with the little green men.

catefrances

jlew24asu wrote:

again. the author never said it was rosy. is that the word of the day?

it was actually nice to read something positive that might be going on over there. schools, army units, brave iraqis stepping forward, etc.

why does it seem like everyone is rooting for america to loose?

you mean lose? cause let's face it theyre already loose.

i never side with bullies.

Cosmo

jlew24asu wrote:

again. the author never said it was rosy. is that the word of the day?

it was actually nice to read something positive that might be going on over there. schools, army units, brave iraqis stepping forward, etc.

why does it seem like everyone is rooting for america to loose?

...
Do you keep throwing nickels and dimes at a bad investrment? Like. say you have an old rust bucket of a 1969 Camaro SS Convertible. It needs everything to get it to showroom condition. Everyday, the rust eats away at the body panels and undercarriage... and you buy a new window crank... and a new glove box latch. You call that progress? If you are going to fix it up, you are going to have to decide to put the resources into it. Putting a new window crank doesn't mean it is restored.
No one is 'Rooting for America to lose', Mr. O'Rielly... We are saying either get the resources into the project to get the mother fucker done... or declare it a basket case.

puremagic

reborncareerist wrote:

Of course it is going bad ... But as bad as the media makes it out to be?

Our media was so afraid of being accused of not supporting the troops, they forgot how to support America by reporting the truth. Now all of a sudden burnt children show up courtsey of Made in the U.S.A. and the MEDIA is the blame. You know what, unless, that building contained Osma bin Laden, we didn't need another Gitmo prisoner and that is what disgusted the American people.

This type of story reflects on America, not Bush, not Cheney, not our troops, but the PEOPLE of America. It is this type of story that maybe we the people of America have been protected from for far too long. Maybe these are the untold stories that make people hate us. Simply because we didn't know what our government did in our name(U.S.A.), so it appeared we(the people) didn't care.

There has never been an open press on this war, but every war has its autrocities. Now that people have found a way to get the truth out, the media is the problem, it encourages terrorists. Enough of the bullsh-t. The problem here is that this Administration knews we didn't have enough ground troops to commit to a surge. The Coalition governments knows that it is now political suicide for any of them to send in any additional ground troops. What is left people? - Bombings.

If you're going to bomb the fu-k out of country, then you DON'T want the MEDIA there reporting what type of bombs are being drops, how often bombs are being dropped or dead children showing up. At least give the American public some credit for seeing through the snow job.

The biggest mistake that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Rice, King Abdullah, and Amir Al-Sabah, made (other than listening to Kissinger) and still refuse to acknowledge is that - whatever group survives this so called Iraqi civil war - they will still be seens as arabs, they will still be muslim and they will still be in the Middle East.

Cosmo

puremagic wrote:

Our media was so afraid of being accused of not supporting the troops, they forgot how to support America by reporting the truth. Now all of a sudden burnt children show up courtsey of Made in the U.S.A. and the MEDIA is the blame. You know what, unless, that building contained Osma bin Laden, we didn't need another Gitmo prisoner and that is what disgusted the American people.

This type of story reflects on America, not Bush, not Cheney, not our troops, but the PEOPLE of America. It is this type of story that maybe we the people of America have been protected from for far too long. Maybe these are the untold stories that make people hate us. Simply because we didn't know what our government did in our name(U.S.A.), so it appeared we(the people) didn't care.

There has never been an open press on this war, but every war has its autrocities. Now that people have found a way to get the truth out, the media is the problem, it encourages terrorists. Enough of the bullsh-t. The problem here is that this Administration knews we didn't have enough ground troops to commit to a surge. The Coalition governments knows that it is now political suicide for any of them to send in any additional ground troops. What is left people? - Bombings.

If you're going to bomb the fu-k out of country, then you DON'T want the MEDIA there reporting what type of bombs are being drops, how often bombs are being dropped or dead children showing up. At least give the American public some credit for seeing through the snow job.

The biggest mistake that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Baker, Rice, King Abdullah, and Amir Al-Sabah, made (other than listening to Kissinger) and still refuse to acknowledge is that - whatever group survives this so called Iraqi civil war - they will still be seens as arabs, they will still be muslim and they will still be in the Middle East.

...
Actually... during time of War... the media should only report on the GOOD the war effort is doing. Such as Pat Tillman's heroic death at the hands of a ruthless swarm of enemies... or Jessica Lynch's heroic stand before succombing to the enemy hoard and her heroic rescue from the jaws of the terrorists torture camp.
You know, stories we can rally around. Fuck the Truth... Truth are for pussies.

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

Like it was ever possible for them to 'win'. Sadly war, and especially wars of occupation fought merely for the financial benefit of a few rich and powerful crooks, never turn out rosy. Still, never mind, just get the media to spin a threat to our existence, wave a few flags, and then everyone will get behind it. What morons people are. No wonder Jesus never came back. He's probably huddled up on Mars somewhere playing dodge ball with the little green men.

here's something you should consider. people with different opinions then you are not morons.

jlew24asu

Cosmo wrote:

...
Do you keep throwing nickels and dimes at a bad investrment? Like. say you have an old rust bucket of a 1969 Camaro SS Convertible. It needs everything to get it to showroom condition. Everyday, the rust eats away at the body panels and undercarriage... and you buy a new window crank... and a new glove box latch. You call that progress? If you are going to fix it up, you are going to have to decide to put the resources into it. Putting a new window crank doesn't mean it is restored.
No one is 'Rooting for America to lose', Mr. O'Rielly... We are saying either get the resources into the project to get the mother fucker done... or declare it a basket case.

thats a cute analogy.

"we" are saying get the resources into the project to get the mother fucker done?? really?? thats what you(we) are saying??

im shocked. cuz thats not what you are saying at all. everyone demonized bush for sending in more troops and demonizing democrats for NOT cutting off funding.

and yes, I think progress has been made. Iraq's not a 1969 camaro.

onelongsong

any venture entered without sufficient money or resources is bound to fail.

onelongsong

Byrnzie wrote:

Like it was ever possible for them to 'win'. Sadly war, and especially wars of occupation fought merely for the financial benefit of a few rich and powerful crooks, never turn out rosy. Still, never mind, just get the media to spin a threat to our existence, wave a few flags, and then everyone will get behind it. What morons people are. No wonder Jesus never came back. He's probably huddled up on Mars somewhere playing dodge ball with the little green men.

it's funny how it's ok for the us to invade europe during it's occupation by a dictator to bring them freedom and restore democracy but it's not ok to do the same for dark skinned people.