why that but not for having sex with a man, marrying a man, having a baby out of wedlock, having an abortion, cheating on my wife, etc...?
I meant more along the fact that God is compassionate and forgiving about all your sins, but was just using that as an example. If the person is truly sorry for whatever sins they have committed, I believe God will forgive them.
It's not a sin to drink alcohol. The sin in going out and getting drunk is overindulgance. Without a Bible handy here at work, I'm not sure where it's stated, but it is in there. However, since I believe that God is compassionate and forgiving, he will forgive you for drinking too much every now and then.
My personal take is that it is frowned on in the bible to go get loaded. But it didn't make the top ten rules to follow. Kinda like homosexuality. Frowned upon but didn't make the top ten rules. I wouldn't go to church to get drunk nor would I expeect the church to support this behaviour. But I don't want to be condemned for it either, accept me as I am knowing that I'm trying to grow as a person and working on becoming more of the person God and Jesus would want me to be.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
why that but not for having sex with a man, marrying a man, having a baby out of wedlock, having an abortion, cheating on my wife, etc...?
it is true that folks like to choose which sins actually apply. For example, a hetero can get all fired up and self-righteous about homosexuality because it's not exactly difficult to not be gay when you're not gay, lol.
My personal take is that it is frowned on in the bible to go get loaded. But it didn't make the top ten rules to follow. Kinda like homosexuality. Frowned upon but didn't make the top ten rules. I wouldn't go to church to get drunk nor would I expeect the church to support this behaviour. But I don't want to be condemned for it either, accept me as I am knowing that I'm trying to grow as a person and working on becoming more of the person God and Jesus would want me to be.
just because it's not in the top 10 doesn't mean it's not wrong
it is true that folks like to choose which sins actually apply. For example, a hetero can get all fired up and self-righteous about homosexuality because it's not exactly difficult to not be gay when you're not gay, lol.
precisely. my favorites are the christians who refuse to use birth control but still have sex before they're married. that's pretty funny. "a condom is too sinful to be forgiven, but god's ok with me knocking her up and leaving her a single mother for life."
Does it make any difference to you if Jesus had a family? As in brothers and sisters? Or children and a wife (such as mary magdalene)? What about if the church was found to be involved in a big cover-up of any evidence that these people existed?
I'm just curious how christians and catholics would feel about this because they showed a programme here on Christmas day about the fact that the church had covered up information on Jesus's family. According to the programme, which kind of followed along the da vinci code line, there is apparently evidence in bible which indicates Jesus had brothers and sisters with their names, which contradicted with the image of the Virgin mary so was covered up. I can't remember the passages now but the church has said these names were actually joseph's kids or they were jesus's friends or cousins or whatever. Apparently whatever the truth is, the cover-up continues.
So my point is if the church is so interested in covering-up any so-called evidence, what difference will it make to you, as a follower of Christianity, if Jesus did have a family, or the virgin mary hadn't been a virgin, or that Jesus had had a wife and kids?
Will it really make a difference to your faith, or your understanding of your faith? Just curious really!
I first thought that this could be a possiblity after reading Christopher Moore's Lamb. It's hilarious, but it basically challenges my previous understanding of Jesus' family as you do with other posters in this thread. It wouldn't change my faith.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
just because it's not in the top 10 doesn't mean it's not wrong
I've never said it wasn't wrong to get loaded. But as a person who is far from perfect the top ten commandments and Jesus' two rules help me prioritize the areas in my life to make changes first. If it is wrong then I am accountable to God and Jesus and not any church or individual.
It's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning. I see nothing wrong having fun on Saturday night that doesn't have you feeling bad about on Sunday morning.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
precisely. my favorites are the christians who refuse to use birth control but still have sex before they're married. that's pretty funny. "a condom is too sinful to be forgiven, but god's ok with me knocking her up and leaving her a single mother for life."
Well, there are all kinds of hypocrits. I've lied before, but I still believe lying is wrong and will get pissed off if someone lies to me. Also, I hope that I never lie in the future, though I may and certainly have.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Hypocracy in of itself isn't a bad thing, because at least it recognizes right and wrong, even if we fall short of our own standads from time to time. Of course, the example you cite above has a bit more consequences for all involved than one's own personal moral struggles.
It's when folks get all uppity & whatnot, that is aggravating to me.
Edit: All of the above applies when sincerety is involved, not creating insincere "loopholes" in order to justify ones own bad behavior.
It's not a sin to drink alcohol. The sin in going out and getting drunk is overindulgance. Without a Bible handy here at work, I'm not sure where it's stated, but it is in there. However, since I believe that God is compassionate and forgiving, he will forgive you for drinking too much every now and then.
Ephesians 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
The way i read this, and i could be wrong, is not really a condemnation of drinking per se. i see it more as a caution against drunkenness because of the all other things that drunkeness can lead to.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
but god's ok with me knocking her up and leaving her a single mother for life."
I really don't think God is okay with this. Jesus came with two rules; love God with all thy heart and love your neighbour. Bailing on a single mother pregnant with your child is not very loving in my books. I seriously don't think I could be friends with a guy who did this, or a woman who intentionally becomes a single parent.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
precisely. my favorites are the christians who refuse to use birth control but still have sex before they're married. that's pretty funny. "a condom is too sinful to be forgiven, but god's ok with me knocking her up and leaving her a single mother for life."
As a Christian i also sometimes giggle at some of the types you allude to here. The problem is when you attempt to discredit Jesus and Christianity itself, because of the laughable behavior of SOME people. Their obvious hypocrisy does not discredit the faith.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Ephesians 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
The way i read this, and i could be wrong, is not really a condemnation of drinking per se. i see it more as a caution against drunkenness because of the all other things that drunkeness can lead to.
That's more or less my take, but I take a pretty liberal reading of it so I don't feel bad for the couple times a year I get drunk. I do have to admit that it's a lot easier to fall into temptation when drunk.
I could have it completely wrong. Time and death will tell.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I've never said it wasn't wrong to get loaded. But as a person who is far from perfect the top ten commandments and Jesus' two rules help me prioritize the areas in my life to make changes first. If it is wrong then I am accountable to God and Jesus and not any church or individual.
It's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning. I see nothing wrong having fun on Saturday night that doesn't have you feeling bad about on Sunday morning.
I'm far from perfect as well and occasionally like to drink to excess, so I see what you mean. I'm not saying you are a bad person or anything like that, I'm just stating what's in the scripture. A sin is a sin no matter how good or bad you feel about it...that's pretty much black and white. All in all we are all held accountable to God, and like I stated before if you are truly sorry for your sins and are repentant, I believe God will forgive your sins.
However, Natural Light is not mentioned, therefore, one coudl assume that God wants us to drink Natty.
In a pinch, absolutely. i think there is a passage somewhere, however, that states "do not get drunk on Natuaral light, as it will have you shitting through a screen door", or something like that. Samuel Adams is completely acceptable though.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
How did a thread about Jesus' family break down into a discussion of the beer we should drink while getting drunk? Only on a moving train.
All in good natured effort to instill a little light heartedness into some heavy subject matter. That and the fact the NOTHING ever stays on subject here.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Romans 14:21
"It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall."
Again, IMHO, a caution against drinking and drunkeness when it may cause someone else to fall. Not a direct condemnation of drinking per se. If i am around, for example, a recovering alcoholic, or someone who can't handle his liquor and acts a complete fool when drinking, then perhaps i shouldn't drink around them.
If, on the other hand, i am o.k. with it, and evryone else at my party is cool with it, then its all good. Let's have a toast.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
I really don't think God is okay with this. Jesus came with two rules; love God with all thy heart and love your neighbour. Bailing on a single mother pregnant with your child is not very loving in my books. I seriously don't think I could be friends with a guy who did this, or a woman who intentionally becomes a single parent.
that was my point. i find it kinda goofy that some of those christians will have sex outside of marriage, but god forbid they use a condom while they do it cos that'd be sinful. it's just kinda funny.
Lets drink to the hard working people
Lets drink to the lowly of birth
Raise your glass to the good and the evil
Lets drink to the salt of the earth
Say a prayer for the common foot soldier
Spare a thought for his back breaking work
Say a prayer for his wife and his children
Who burn the fires and who still till the earth
And when I search a faceless crowd
A swirling mass of gray and
Black and white
They dont look real to me
In fact, they look so strange
Raise your glass to the hard working people
Lets drink to the uncounted heads
Lets think of the wavering millions
Who need leaders but get gamblers instead
Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters
A choice of cancer or polio
And when I look in the faceless crowd
A swirling mass of grays and
Black and white
They dont look real to me
Or don't they look so strange
Lets drink to the hard working people
Lets think of the lowly of birth
Spare a thought for the rag taggy people
Lets drink to the salt of the earth
Lets drink to the hard working people
Lets drink to the salt of the earth
Lets drink to the two thousand million
Lets think of the humble of birth
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
that was my point. i find it kinda goofy that some of those christians will have sex outside of marriage, but god forbid they use a condom while they do it cos that'd be sinful. it's just kinda funny.
Romans 14:21
"It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall."
Again, IMHO, a caution against drinking and drunkeness when it may cause someone else to fall. Not a direct condemnation of drinking per se. If i am around, for example, a recovering alcoholic, or someone who can't handle his liquor and acts a complete fool when drinking, then perhaps i shouldn't drink around them.
If, on the other hand, i am o.k. with it, and evryone else at my party is cool with it, then its all good. Let's have a toast.
if you are still finding this scripture based on my previous post, I stated that drinking is not a sin....Jesus drank wine, there's the direct proof that it's not a sin to drink alcohol since Jesus is the only person to never sin
The sin in getting drunk is overindulgance. Overeating, overdrinking, etc. are technically sins since you're overindulging in something. It's not the alcohol that is the issue there. As you stated before, getting drunk can lead to other sins though, so you've sinned twice (overindulged, and whatever you did while drunk).....that's why they caution against it so much in the scriptures.
Does it make any difference to you if Jesus had a family? As in brothers and sisters? Or children and a wife (such as mary magdalene)? What about if the church was found to be involved in a big cover-up of any evidence that these people existed?
I'm just curious how christians and catholics would feel about this because they showed a programme here on Christmas day about the fact that the church had covered up information on Jesus's family. According to the programme, which kind of followed along the da vinci code line, there is apparently evidence in bible which indicates Jesus had brothers and sisters with their names, which contradicted with the image of the Virgin mary so was covered up. I can't remember the passages now but the church has said these names were actually joseph's kids or they were jesus's friends or cousins or whatever. Apparently whatever the truth is, the cover-up continues.
So my point is if the church is so interested in covering-up any so-called evidence, what difference will it make to you, as a follower of Christianity, if Jesus did have a family, or the virgin mary hadn't been a virgin, or that Jesus had had a wife and kids?
Will it really make a difference to your faith, or your understanding of your faith? Just curious really!
good question. it would take days to explain but a good question just the same. Jesus had brothers and sisters. you're confusing virgin with virgin birth. virgin birth is conception without sex. that's the point.
to cut through the chafe; the church is conceived by and run by man. you're told what they want you to know and what they don't want you to know is covered up. supposedly burned out of existance when constantine decided christianity needed a universal bible. there were over 30 gospels but only 4 chosen to be in the bible. the nostic christians still hold the old "forbidden" gospels and if you're truely interested; looking into nostic christianity will prove quite interesting.
Does it make any difference to you if Jesus had a family? As in brothers and sisters? Or children and a wife (such as mary magdalene)? What about if the church was found to be involved in a big cover-up of any evidence that these people existed?
I'm just curious how christians and catholics would feel about this because they showed a programme here on Christmas day about the fact that the church had covered up information on Jesus's family. According to the programme, which kind of followed along the da vinci code line, there is apparently evidence in bible which indicates Jesus had brothers and sisters with their names, which contradicted with the image of the Virgin mary so was covered up. I can't remember the passages now but the church has said these names were actually joseph's kids or they were jesus's friends or cousins or whatever. Apparently whatever the truth is, the cover-up continues.
So my point is if the church is so interested in covering-up any so-called evidence, what difference will it make to you, as a follower of Christianity, if Jesus did have a family, or the virgin mary hadn't been a virgin, or that Jesus had had a wife and kids?
Will it really make a difference to your faith, or your understanding of your faith? Just curious really!
I don't see how it would diminish the value of his teachings.
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
I don't see how it would diminish the value of his teachings.
but why is there a cover-up then?
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan --- London, Brixton, 14 July 1993 London, Wembley, 1996 London, Wembley, 18 June 2007 London, O2, 18 August 2009 London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012 Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
good question. it would take days to explain but a good question just the same. Jesus had brothers and sisters. you're confusing virgin with virgin birth. virgin birth is conception without sex. that's the point.
to cut through the chafe; the church is conceived by and run by man. you're told what they want you to know and what they don't want you to know is covered up. supposedly burned out of existance when constantine decided christianity needed a universal bible. there were over 30 gospels but only 4 chosen to be in the bible. the nostic christians still hold the old "forbidden" gospels and if you're truely interested; looking into nostic christianity will prove quite interesting.
then they should call her the virgin birth mary, not the virgin mary. I think that maybe the virgin mary term helps the church's cause, because they want her to be seen as something untouched except by god. For whatever reason. Personally, I don't know which is more wierd, the fact that the church wanted everyone to believe that, or the fact that nearly everyone did!
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan --- London, Brixton, 14 July 1993 London, Wembley, 1996 London, Wembley, 18 June 2007 London, O2, 18 August 2009 London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012 Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
Comments
Who said he wouldn't?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
it is true that folks like to choose which sins actually apply. For example, a hetero can get all fired up and self-righteous about homosexuality because it's not exactly difficult to not be gay when you're not gay, lol.
precisely. my favorites are the christians who refuse to use birth control but still have sex before they're married. that's pretty funny. "a condom is too sinful to be forgiven, but god's ok with me knocking her up and leaving her a single mother for life."
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
It's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning. I see nothing wrong having fun on Saturday night that doesn't have you feeling bad about on Sunday morning.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Well, there are all kinds of hypocrits. I've lied before, but I still believe lying is wrong and will get pissed off if someone lies to me. Also, I hope that I never lie in the future, though I may and certainly have.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Hypocracy in of itself isn't a bad thing, because at least it recognizes right and wrong, even if we fall short of our own standads from time to time. Of course, the example you cite above has a bit more consequences for all involved than one's own personal moral struggles.
It's when folks get all uppity & whatnot, that is aggravating to me.
Edit: All of the above applies when sincerety is involved, not creating insincere "loopholes" in order to justify ones own bad behavior.
Ephesians 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
The way i read this, and i could be wrong, is not really a condemnation of drinking per se. i see it more as a caution against drunkenness because of the all other things that drunkeness can lead to.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
However, Natural Light is not mentioned, therefore, one coudl assume that God wants us to drink Natty.
As a Christian i also sometimes giggle at some of the types you allude to here. The problem is when you attempt to discredit Jesus and Christianity itself, because of the laughable behavior of SOME people. Their obvious hypocrisy does not discredit the faith.
I could have it completely wrong. Time and death will tell.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
In a pinch, absolutely. i think there is a passage somewhere, however, that states "do not get drunk on Natuaral light, as it will have you shitting through a screen door", or something like that. Samuel Adams is completely acceptable though.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
at least it has been an interesting theological discussion
Because Fanch is in the thread.
All in good natured effort to instill a little light heartedness into some heavy subject matter. That and the fact the NOTHING ever stays on subject here.
Romans 14:21
"It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall."
Again, IMHO, a caution against drinking and drunkeness when it may cause someone else to fall. Not a direct condemnation of drinking per se. If i am around, for example, a recovering alcoholic, or someone who can't handle his liquor and acts a complete fool when drinking, then perhaps i shouldn't drink around them.
If, on the other hand, i am o.k. with it, and evryone else at my party is cool with it, then its all good. Let's have a toast.
that was my point. i find it kinda goofy that some of those christians will have sex outside of marriage, but god forbid they use a condom while they do it cos that'd be sinful. it's just kinda funny.
Lets drink to the hard working people
Lets drink to the lowly of birth
Raise your glass to the good and the evil
Lets drink to the salt of the earth
Say a prayer for the common foot soldier
Spare a thought for his back breaking work
Say a prayer for his wife and his children
Who burn the fires and who still till the earth
And when I search a faceless crowd
A swirling mass of gray and
Black and white
They dont look real to me
In fact, they look so strange
Raise your glass to the hard working people
Lets drink to the uncounted heads
Lets think of the wavering millions
Who need leaders but get gamblers instead
Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters
A choice of cancer or polio
And when I look in the faceless crowd
A swirling mass of grays and
Black and white
They dont look real to me
Or don't they look so strange
Lets drink to the hard working people
Lets think of the lowly of birth
Spare a thought for the rag taggy people
Lets drink to the salt of the earth
Lets drink to the hard working people
Lets drink to the salt of the earth
Lets drink to the two thousand million
Lets think of the humble of birth
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
The sin in getting drunk is overindulgance. Overeating, overdrinking, etc. are technically sins since you're overindulging in something. It's not the alcohol that is the issue there. As you stated before, getting drunk can lead to other sins though, so you've sinned twice (overindulged, and whatever you did while drunk).....that's why they caution against it so much in the scriptures.
good question. it would take days to explain but a good question just the same. Jesus had brothers and sisters. you're confusing virgin with virgin birth. virgin birth is conception without sex. that's the point.
to cut through the chafe; the church is conceived by and run by man. you're told what they want you to know and what they don't want you to know is covered up. supposedly burned out of existance when constantine decided christianity needed a universal bible. there were over 30 gospels but only 4 chosen to be in the bible. the nostic christians still hold the old "forbidden" gospels and if you're truely interested; looking into nostic christianity will prove quite interesting.
I don't see how it would diminish the value of his teachings.
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
www.bebo.com/pearljam06
but why is there a cover-up then?
---
London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
London, Wembley, 1996
London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
London, O2, 18 August 2009
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
then they should call her the virgin birth mary, not the virgin mary. I think that maybe the virgin mary term helps the church's cause, because they want her to be seen as something untouched except by god. For whatever reason. Personally, I don't know which is more wierd, the fact that the church wanted everyone to believe that, or the fact that nearly everyone did!
---
London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
London, Wembley, 1996
London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
London, O2, 18 August 2009
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014