Kiedis's Cobain reenactment: Disrespectful?

turquoisetrouble

The most recent Entertainment Weekly (5/25/06), has an "Explain Yourself" paragraph, which they usually save for things they think are in bad taste, about the Cobain reenactment. It reads as follows: "In the new Chili Peppers video, "Dani California," the group gleefully references bands like the Beatles, Parliament, and the Sex Pistols. Which is entertaining and all... until their nod to a sullen Kurt Cobain - with a candle extinguishing before him - suddenly puts a damper on the festivities. And we weren't the only ones who noticed. "It was a big concern of [Chili Peppers bassist] Flea's," says the clip's director Tony Kaye (American History X). "Flea asked [ex-Nirvana drummer] Dave Grohl if it was okay. Dave said yeah - Nirvana was about having fun." We wouldn't call this homage "fun," but it certainly did strike a chord."
David Byrne of Talking Heads fame, on his site, writes an interesting piece about how little influence artists generally have on their music videos, and I think this may have been one of those situations. I think Flea was dragged kicking and screaming through this thing. He clearly saw it was in poor taste, and assumed Dave Grohl would agree with him. Unfortunately, Dave Grohl has poor taste himself, despite his close bond with Cobain. Maybe nobody got hurt, but this video was coldly calculated. I think in a very general way, the minds behind this video wanted very dearly to have people associate the Peppers with Nirvana, who are considered rock and roll legends in the mainstream press, and thus mainstream thought (whether we agree with that assessment or not). Rolling Stone on its 1000th issue had Cobain floating like an angel over its masthead, and that is clearly the establishment's acceptance of him as a rock and roll god. And of course the record company's would love to build the association between Kiedis and an acknowledged rock and roll god. It was calculated and crude like many music videos are. Some music videos are calculated in that they show off sexy, young flesh to sell records. There's a lot of corporate pressure to do that. In this case, Kiedis is wearing a wig and impersonating Cobain's bad posture to get credibilty, not to pay tribute. And I don't think it was Kiedis's decision. I think the record company made him do it.
I really like the Chili's new record, but I think it's unfortunate about the forces around them. Maybe they're allowing these forces to dominate because they want to build some wealth (I'm guessing they're not as smart with the money as PJ). I signed up on the RHCP website, and everything there is much more corporate (the fan's postings are not as sophisticated either, but that's nitpicking). I just know that the Peppers as individuals are not the corporate types, so it stinks to see how they're being influenced. At least PJ keeps it real, and doesn't care that their new video isn't going to sell records, but instead represents honest art for its own sake.

See Post #51 for significant additional reflection/information on the above argument.

Here is my original posting. One change I would make is that I wouldn't use the word "sacred" regarding unplugged, but here it is:

When I saw the video for Dani California, I was taken aback that Anthony Kiedis dressed up as Kurt Cobain in Unplugged Nirvana mode. This was one of the very last performances before Cobain died, and I associate this performance with his death. To me, it's a sacred thing, and they shouldn't mess with that Unplugged episode even in tribute. Impersonations are a tricky thing sometimes.
Throughout the video, the Chili Peppers are goofing on all the different musical trends. Straight from this light-hearted goofing mode, they go to Kiedis dressed up as Cobain, in that green sweater that is so iconic.
I've considered myself to be a Pepper fan for many years, and I understand people make mistakes. I think they just made a mistake.
I also realize that the Peppers themselves have had major struggles and challenges that they've dealt with, not entirely dissimilar from Cobain's. I just have a weird feeling seeing this.

whatsthefreezer

Well considering these are the same guys that got famous for putting socks on their dicks it didn't really surprise me. I was almost waiting for the part where they'd mock Nirvana or Pearl Jam.

dg1979us

Its wasnt meant as disrespect though. They are playing many different rockstars throught the video, and I think the intent was to make a fun video, not to hack on anybody. The chili peppers have dealth with death too, I certainly dont think they would make light of someone dieing in the prime of their life.

giventoyfly316

It is definitely a very incongruous sequence of the video. Whether or not it was actually disrespectful is up to individual interpetation. With the way Flea was playing his bass during the Unplugged re-enactment, they might have been slightly mocking the earnestness and overall seriousness of the so-called major grunge bands. However, Anthony really isn't exaggerating anything in his Cobain persona, contrary to what he does in all other imitations throughout the video. Combine that with the fact that the camera pulls back and leaves the Unplugged sequence on a close-up of a candle whose light is expiring, and I think there is ample evidence that though the rest of the video was tongue-in-cheek this one sequence was not meant to be disrespectful.

I know that they've named-dropped Cobain in a song, and spoken of him in interviews. So, I believe they have a respect for the man's memory. However, in keeping with the tone of the video it might have been wiser to parody the Even Flow or Alive performance videos, Anthony goofing Eddie as he jumps from the balcony or something.

IWishIWasASailor

My god people whine and worry about anything. Is Kurt Cobain such a fucking god?

He killed himself, get over it. That video was about honoring music and it's progression through time. Nothing at all rude about it.

turquoisetrouble

I assume also that the Peppers didn't intentionally disrespect Kurt. But it was just weird.
And as far as him not being a "god", in my opinion he was pretty awesome.
(Edited to take out defensive praise of Cobain. Everyone's opinions on Cobain are set already.)

Hitch-Hiker

I thought it was hilarious. That video really adds a lot to a mediocre song. The particular segment with Cobain made me laugh more than the rest of it. Not for the Anthony's Kurt, but the rest of the band aping Krist, Dave, and Pat Smear.

Jeremy1012

anyone who is offended by this needs to get life. they are giving nods to bands as a tribute, and besides, since when did blowing your brains out give you some sort of sacred shield from ever being mentioned?

OutOfBreath

Well, I think that part of the video is very respectful towards Kurt. A more serious moment in all the goofyness in the video. I take none of it as being disrespectful towards the various artists, but rather a celebration of rockmusic through the ages. (ending up in the "real" peppers rocking out of course )

The unplugged part is more beautiful than anything else. with the close-up on the extinguished candle in the calm verse just before the chorus.

All round a fun and feel-good video, with the peppers having a blast, mixed in with a serious moment commemorating Kurt. As someone already said, a great video to add to an otherwise mediocre song.

Peace
Dan

turquoisetrouble

I actually agree it is a really funny video other than the Kurt thing. The production values are excellent. The effects are pretty great, like the late 60's purple Hendrix-type thing, the Ed Sullivan-era Beatles goody-two shoes era, the 80's hair-metal jokester phase, the crazy new-wave segment with Kiedis's hair bobbing down his face. Each one of these phases were good enough to have been done for an entire video.
I want to really like the new double CD. Frusciante is an innovative guy, and Flea of course is Flea. I loved loved loved Blood Sugar Sex Magic, I listened to it so much. And I've really liked each of their CD's since then, including One Hot Minute, which I do think is underrated. I wish they embraced that album more, and played that material in concert. Frusciante should be able to learn that material. One thing is that the Peppers seem to concentrate too much on the hits when they play concerts, whereas PJ digs deeper into their catalog for their shows.

chris01

None of what they did was disrespectful to any bands, its was a celebration of the music that they respect over the years.

Someone else pointed this out when the vid first came out. When they're doing the Nirvana bit there is a candle on and just at the end of the clip he sing 'Gone too fast' (i think) and the candle is out. I thought that was an awesome part of the video.

Anyone who thinks its disrespectful is, well, wrong, lol.

enharmonic

People taking RHCP videos seriously is surely a sign of the apocalypse.

sorry...fuck videos. I haven't watched a video in 10 years, and it has made me a better music fan. Not "better than you", just a better listener. I remember being swayed by mediocre music because the videos were awesome. Now, I let my headphones tell me what's good...not my eyes.

Ben Red Blue

chris01 wrote:

Someone else pointed this out when the vid first came out. When they're doing the Nirvana bit there is a candle on and just at the end of the clip he sing 'Gone too fast' (i think) and the candle is out. I thought that was an awesome part of the video.

"Down in the bad lands she was savin' the best for last
It only hurts when I laugh, gone too fast".

Thats whats sung over the Nirvana part and I wouldnt say its coincidence.

Restless Soul

I thought it was a bit disrespectful at first but then again realised its an iconic image of the band so in a way its going to be done sooner or later.

What I find really disrespectful is when people use pictures of Kurt's real dead body in avatars and things - I got into a fight with someone on haven about that once, because to me that's worse than someone spoofing them on stage.

Carlos D

Look at how Elvis' name has been dragged through the mud and cheaply exploited over the years for profit,at least these are people he knew paying tribute to him in a tasteful way.And Kurt Cobain was one of those who mocked Elvis,I read some quote he had making fun of Elvis because he was supposed to be the king of rock 'n' roll but died on a toilet.

And wasn't Kurt mentioned in Californication?''Coabin can you hear the spheres singing songs off station to station.'' Or something like that.No idea what that meant.

chris01

I would say the gone too fast part is a coincidence. Either that or just great timing with the candle going out. Could have just been a lucky break, who knows.

dontgimmenolip

Wow, Um, no, it's not disrespectful at all. Yeah, unplugged was the last performance, and the green sweater has become synonymous with Nirvana, blah, blah, blah. But it's a video. This is no bigger a deal than when BonJovi poked fun at Pearl Jam in their "Something for the Pain" video. So the Chili Peppers imitated Nirvana in their new video. WHOOPITY DOO!!

If the vocals on Teen Spirit had been intelligible, Nirvana would have went nowhere because the "Novelty" of the song would have been nil. We had heard the rhythm before when Boston hit with "More Than A Feeling", but as Weird Al pointed out "it's hard to bargle nawdle zous with all these marbles in my mouth". If "In Bloom" had been the first single would we all still be kissing Nirvana's ass?

P.S. I'd love to see people get this up in arms over Jeff Buckley, Layne Staley, or Aaliyah.

Edit: Let me add that I do like Nirvana, but I refuse to lionize them or give them more credit than they deserve.

Ben Red Blue

chris01 wrote:

I would say the gone too fast part is a coincidence. Either that or just great timing with the candle going out. Could have just been a lucky break, who knows.

I believe the editor of the video knows. Great timing? Coincidence? Seriously?...

SGT-D

turquoisetrouble wrote:

the crazy new-wave segment with Kiedis's hair bobbing down his face.

If it is the part i think you r talking about where he has his hair straight down over his face you may find he is refering to the Misfits.

And did you stop and think that maybe they are actually paying tribute to some of there fav bands??

turquoisetrouble

SGT-D wrote:

If it is the part i think you r talking about where he has his hair straight down over his face you may find he is refering to the Misfits.

And did you stop and think that maybe they are actually paying tribute to some of there fav bands??

Thanks for the headsup on the Misfits. I like to think I know my music, but I wasn't really aware of them. I knew of Danzig, but not the Misfits. And I guess that wouldn't really be "new wave" would it? "Hardcore punk" is more like it. New wave is more like Devo, isn't it? Just a tad of a difference. I'm glad you gave me the heads up, I've learned something today. I actually had a friend in the early nineties who had his hair like that, and he had some Danzig videotapes, which were pretty intense. As a joke, I even grew my hair like that for a little while. The good old college days.
I acknowledge they are paying tributes to the bands they like. But as I said, the Kurt thing is weird to me. Anthony wearing a Cobain wig and slouching like him. What kind of a tribute is that? If he wanted to do a tribute, he should sing a Nirvana song (that's something PJ does for the acts they respect). To act like Kurt Cobain would be singing a new RHCP song, a song with Anthony's lyrics, is a little presumptuous. Yeah, it's just a music video. But if you're going to do a tribute, do it right. I'm glad Anthony mentioned Kurt in Californication. That actually gave me chills. But they should have skipped this "tribute." I love the Peppers, but they just made a mistake here. It is cheezzzzzzy. Can you imagine Eddie dressing up as one of his heroes in a video. The only person he dressed up as was Bush, and that was someone he wanted to ridicule.

WhatWouldWellstoneDo

I'm rather sick of all the Kurt Cobain dick-sucking out there these days. He's no Hendrix, Joplin, Garcia, Morrison, etc. He was a weak-willed man who made "good music" and really stood on the shoulders of Paul Westerberg, Frank Black, and Bob Mould- this he admitted. His heroes were true rock visionairies who all resisted stardom, and disbanded their vehicles when they warned of getting too big. Kurt didn't and became the full-fledged rock star who his heroes despised. That killed him, and I really did like Kurt, but who gives a shit whether Anthony disrespected him, he's not really rock royalty as many of you kiddies think. What's really sad is that music has devolved so much that he would even be considered a legend.

dontgimmenolip

WhatWouldWellstoneDo wrote:

I'm rather sick of all the Kurt Cobain dick-sucking out there these days. He's no Hendrix, Joplin, Garcia, Morrison, etc. He was a weak-willed man who made "good music" and really stood on the shoulders of Paul Westerberg, Frank Black, and Bob Mould- this he admitted. His heroes were true rock visionairies who all resisted stardom, and disbanded their vehicles when they warned of getting too big. Kurt didn't and became the full-fledged rock star who his heroes despised. That killed him, and I really did like Kurt, but who gives a shit whether Anthony disrespected him, he's not really rock royalty as many of you kiddies think. What's really sad is that music has devolved so much that he would even be considered a legend.

This is what it sounds like when you get served.

Fucking A!

Fabes

Jeremy1012 wrote:

anyone who is offended by this needs to get life. they are giving nods to bands as a tribute, and besides, since when did blowing your brains out give you some sort of sacred shield from ever being mentioned?

My thoughts exactly.

cafeamericain

to me it seems like they are praising the individual/group/genre, not disrespecting them at all...the original poster said "To me, it's a sacred thing, and they shouldn't mess with that Unplugged episode even in tribute" ...i'm sorry but that sounds as absurd as "mohammed is a sacred thing, and they shouldn't mess with portrayal of him in a cartoon even in tribute"

WhatWouldWellstoneDo

cafeamericain wrote:

to me it seems like they are praising the individual/group/genre, not disrespecting them at all...the original poster said "To me, it's a sacred thing, and they shouldn't mess with that Unplugged episode even in tribute" ...i'm sorry but that sounds as absurd as "mohammed is a sacred thing, and they shouldn't mess with portrayal of him in a cartoon even in tribute"

Exactly. I also was annoyed when Nirvana were seen as some sort of savior, some death-knell to Hair Metal. Yes, their popularity helped to turn the tide, but what they did was not new. Grunge, the sound, the look, were not new or exclusive to Seattle. Much of it was owed to the Northeast, i.e. Boston, and the Minneapolis scene. If you want to see early examples of the grunge look, look at mid-80's Soul Asylum, or Husker Du, or the Replacements, or for god's sake, Neil Young's entire career. I've outgrown Bleach, Nevermind, etc, but I always turn back to the Pixies, Replacements, etc, because they were the real deal. Even though I despise Anthony Kiedis, i even would say the RHCP's are/were more vital. The fact that PJ has survived is a testament to them being a real rock band, and not a categorical one-off, or grunge band. It's the same with Hole and L7, if you know their histories, you'd know they'd never be as big without their connection to Minneapolis' Babes In Toyland. Courtney Love was a stripper at a seedy St. Paul strip club when she was kissing their ass and perfecting her shtick.

culot4

They're paying homage to all of their influences and friends..Check out this pic

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/culot4/5d504142.jpg

It is not disrespectful at all. As already pointed out the scene includes the line "Gone too fast" followed by a shot of a burnt out candle. They had fun with the video but they werent cheapshots. Whoever said the burnt out candle was a coincidence....I mean come on.

catefrances

you know the first time i saw this video i had to leave the room. but the rest of the vid is so funny that now i'm over the nirvana part and can enjoy it along with the remainder of the clip. i love perving on john frusciante anyway. he looks real good in some parts.
and for christs sake it's the chilli peppers they wouldn't know serious if it bit them on the arse.

benjs

Ben Red Blue wrote:

I believe the editor of the video knows. Great timing? Coincidence? Seriously?...

Exactly. In the commercial world, there's no such thing as a coincidence.

Inkdaub

Stuff like that doesn't bother me.

depplover

i hate the song and video..

Pearl Jam and toast

chris01 wrote:

None of what they did was disrespectful to any bands, its was a celebration of the music that they respect over the years.

Someone else pointed this out when the vid first came out. When they're doing the Nirvana bit there is a candle on and just at the end of the clip he sing 'Gone too fast' (i think) and the candle is out. I thought that was an awesome part of the video.

Anyone who thinks its disrespectful is, well, wrong, lol.

"and Cobain can you hear the spheres singing songs off station to station?

out of their arms, not far away it's californifaction"

Californication is Part 1 of this trio (2 being By the Way and 3 Dani Cal.)

Kurt's got a place in the story in some way.

it wasn't direspectful.