I agree wholeheartedly, and that's why I don't think the Ramones were punk. I consider Refused to be a punk band, even though they have a lot of electronica elements thrown in because their attitude and aesthetics are punk. I think The Ramones were an enjoyable pub band with leather jackets. That hardly makes it punk. I certainly think the VU were closer to punk in music, image and attitude. Like you said, they went against the grain. The Ramones didn't exactly do that. Their music was fairly derivative, just with a new twist.
I thought the point regarding "punk" as relevant to the ramones was two things basicaly
1. They had this incredible do-it-yourself TOURING attitude ... they stuck to it, even in the face of poor album sales and being ignored on the radio, and they built a following based on live shows. That was a relatively new concept. Either you got popular and toured based on that popularity, or you just quit. Well, the ramones didn't.
2. They were one of the very first bands to get togeather and create a SOUND based on power chords with very very limited musical knowledge. I think this alone puts them in the "punk" category ... and it is intertwined with the first point, do-it-yourself ... unless you can point me to a half dozen other bands that were in clubs playing songs based strictly on distorted and repetitive three chord patterns played fast, i think you have to give them credit for (if not starting) at least being seminal in the creation of not only a sound, but an alternative ethos and scene in music.
Yes, The Stooges, and The VU came first, but both bands could play their instruments on a level that the Ramones never could.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
When I was at school I remember they came here so many times, in my country there are a lot of ramones fans, But at that time (1992/93) I used to listen to pearl jam, aic… and some sepultura stuff… But the last time the came to my country around 1994 I went to see them. They came with Iggy pop, it was a excellent show, I will never forget that …. Something else happened that night,,, When I arrived home, I turned on the radio and I heard that Eddie was in that show.. :eek: but filming. Nobody saw him. I wish I had seen pj at that time. But fortunately they came here years later.
Ramones will be always remembered.
The stooges in another band I like, they are awesome live.
" You, you are so special
You have the talent to
Make me feel like dirt
And you, you use your
Talent to dig me under
And cover me with dirt.."
Comments
I thought the point regarding "punk" as relevant to the ramones was two things basicaly
1. They had this incredible do-it-yourself TOURING attitude ... they stuck to it, even in the face of poor album sales and being ignored on the radio, and they built a following based on live shows. That was a relatively new concept. Either you got popular and toured based on that popularity, or you just quit. Well, the ramones didn't.
2. They were one of the very first bands to get togeather and create a SOUND based on power chords with very very limited musical knowledge. I think this alone puts them in the "punk" category ... and it is intertwined with the first point, do-it-yourself ... unless you can point me to a half dozen other bands that were in clubs playing songs based strictly on distorted and repetitive three chord patterns played fast, i think you have to give them credit for (if not starting) at least being seminal in the creation of not only a sound, but an alternative ethos and scene in music.
Yes, The Stooges, and The VU came first, but both bands could play their instruments on a level that the Ramones never could.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Ramones will be always remembered.
The stooges in another band I like, they are awesome live.
You have the talent to
Make me feel like dirt
And you, you use your
Talent to dig me under
And cover me with dirt.."