Year Zero

pjoasisrule

mensane wrote:

first of all...personally, i love With Teeth. very rock and roll. verrrrry good live.

as for Year Zero....i would like to address the people who dont like it. i am curious if you followed the ARG that was going on prior to the release. i followed just about every bit of it and the songs mean so much to me since i know the back story of the characters that the songs are about (and sung from their point of view). when the album first came out, i used the analogy of a movie.....if you hadnt followed the ARG, it was like watching a movie in black and white; where if you had followed it, you saw it in vivid color. i tend to listen to Year Zero only when i can listen to the whole album in order (such as during long drives). something about the chaos and energy leading into Zero Sum still gives me the chills and brings tears to my eyes. i keep seeing that final "letter" in the ARG from the soldier to his family...saying goodbye.

Trent said many times that the album was only a PART of the entire experience that is Year Zero. so if you didnt follow the ARG and you feel like the album is missing "something", you are right.

but i love it and cannot wait for part two.

It is awesome live, Know What You Are is definitely one of my favorites live

Pearlrevolver

geishagrrl wrote:

The songs should be able to sound like good songs with or without the ARG. Ultimately the words are not as important as the over all music. He could be singing jibberish and, if it was a good album musically, it wouldn't matter. If the songs cannot stand on their own, the ARG is pointless. Personally I think Trent is crazy if he thinks that everyone who listens to his music is going to invest the time to figure all that shit out. I'm sorry but I don't have the time to sit around and try and figure out these websites and call 1-800 numbers just so I can understand what the album is about. And findng out from other places what the ARG was about didn't help the album. The majority of the songs were still mediocre at best, IMO.

Trent is at a point in his career where he is going to release material to people that actually want to listen to it. He knows he has fans that want to look up websites, call 1-800#'s and are willing to follow a story. He's not making records to get a new audience, he's making records that are interesting to him. If you don't want to follow the story, no problem, but to say the words are not as important as the music doesn't really make sense in this case because the words are the narrative to the overall description of the story.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Pearlrevolver wrote:

Trent is at a point in his career where he is going to release material to people that actually want to listen to it. He knows he has fans that want to look up websites, call 1-800#'s and are willing to follow a story. He's not making records to get a new audience, he's making records that are interesting to him. If you don't want to follow the story, no problem, but to say the words are not as important as the music doesn't really make sense in this case because the words are the narrative to the overall description of the story.

I totally agree. He has always made the music that excites HIM. That's what the best artists do. They create for themselves, not others. He knows many people follow his work, so he does take that into consideration, but I think that only comes into play after the work is completed. He always makes some kind of effort to make the album packaging interesting and other stuff. I seriously doubt he was sitting around and said "I should make a concept album because I think people would really like it and I'd gain lots of new fans". Nah.

And actually, I'm one of those people who doesn't follow the concept, but I still like the album.

chitty

I liked WT alot, but YZ is a little too out there for me. Some very good songs and then I get lost about half way through like someone else said.

Anyways, I am in Beijing and get to see NIN here tomorrow. Should be interesting to see a Chinese crowd at a rock concert, though I do suspect at least half the people will be expats. I'll post on here the day or two after the show if anyone is interested.

pearljam0000

chitty wrote:

I liked WT alot, but YZ is a little too out there for me. Some very good songs and then I get lost about half way through like someone else said.

How do you get lost listening to an album? Just fuckin listen to it.

geishagrrl

Pearlrevolver wrote:

Trent is at a point in his career where he is going to release material to people that actually want to listen to it. He knows he has fans that want to look up websites, call 1-800#'s and are willing to follow a story. He's not making records to get a new audience, he's making records that are interesting to him. If you don't want to follow the story, no problem, but to say the words are not as important as the music doesn't really make sense in this case because the words are the narrative to the overall description of the story.

There is a principle in art that says that a piece of art is only as good as the sum of its parts. The whole piece of art is what is most important but it can only work if all of the elements that make it up work as well. So if one part of a piece of art fails, it hurts the art as a whole. I would hope we could all agree that music is a form of art and the lyrics are only a part of that music. The structure of the song, the melodies and harmonies, the actual instrumental music is a big part of that art. So therefor, the words are not as important as the over all music because that is the end result and the lyrics only part of it.

My point was that knowing or following the ARG or what the album is about does not help if you think the music as a whole is not good. The argument was being made that one cannot appreciate the album without knowing the ARG and, I'm sorry, but you can write a fantastic story or a beautiful poem but if the song AS A WHOLE is not good, the words will not save it. We are talking about if it is a good ALBUM, not story. Is it an interesting story? Yeah sure. I'll even watch the show or movie if they ever actually make one. But as a piece of MUSIC, it falls short, IMO.

Or you could look at it from another angle. Lets suppose that the art form is supposed to be a musical of sorts. If a musical was debuted on Broadway that had a kick ass story but only so-so music, would people look past that? I doubt it. The music is a big part of a musical and if it fails then it hurts the success of the musical art as a whole.

I never said anything about him doing it to gain new fans, so I'm not sure were you were coming from with that. All musicians should be making music that they themselves think is great, no matter if they have a following or not. It should have nothing to do with what stage of your career you are in. I would hope and I do personally believe that Trent always was making music that is interesting to him. I just personally think that this effort wasn't that great musically and because that is what an album is ultimately about, well there you go.

I have no problem if others like the album. But I am disagreeing with the idea that understanding the ARG would somehow change one's opinion of the music as a whole. You are going to either like the music or you are not.

As for getting lost while listening to an album, I would say losing interest. And just listening to it won't change that. I've tried. It just doesn't keep my interest.

JPS79

I don't think I've listened to this album all the way through except once the day it came out, the "political agenda" feel was different coming from Trent. Not that it is a bad thing just un-expected more of a RATM thing. But I am looking forward to the 2nd half of this opus. Any word on when that is?

lalalalaaaaaaaa

geishagrrl wrote:

I am disagreeing with the idea that understanding the ARG would somehow change one's opinion of the music as a whole. You are going to either like the music or you are not.

I agree. I know very little detail about the story behind Year Zero, but I never listen to records to find out what the artist meant to say. If it doesn't mean anything to me, it's not gonna matter if I understand what they meant or not. I don't know why people would listen to music, or pay attention to any art unless they were making a personal connection with it.

chitty

saw NIN in beijing yesterday and it was very good imo. They opened with Year Zero's intro and first song. Played mostly hits and some new songs, which gave me a renewed appreciation for those songs. The bass on some in particular was LOUD, especially Me, I'm Not. All in all a good show.
The 1/2 chinese, 1/2 expat crowd didn't seem to know NIN that well, but didn't take away from my experience. There was some bouncing and crowd surfing, but the stage was a very long way away from the crowd. There was probably more crowd surfing and bouncing during Marky Ramone's set. I also saw at least four different chinese people get escorted into a building by military officers after they exited the mosh area. Who knows what happened to them.
If you get teh chance, I'd recommend NIN live. New songs play well.

bedface cooper.

chitty wrote:

saw NIN in beijing yesterday and it was very good imo. They opened with Year Zero's intro and first song. Played mostly hits and some new songs, which gave me a renewed appreciation for those songs. The bass on some in particular was LOUD, especially Me, I'm Not. All in all a good show.
The 1/2 chinese, 1/2 expat crowd didn't seem to know NIN that well, but didn't take away from my experience. There was some bouncing and crowd surfing, but the stage was a very long way away from the crowd. There was probably more crowd surfing and bouncing during Marky Ramone's set. I also saw at least four different chinese people get escorted into a building by military officers after they exited the mosh area. Who knows what happened to them.
If you get teh chance, I'd recommend NIN live. New songs play well.

Thanks for the short review, sounds really brilliant. They've had some problems with European audiences and promoters (alright, Germans and Austrians in that case), it's reassuring to hear that they were good.

As for Year Zero - It has grown on me, I like it a lot now. I love the bass on songs like Good Soldier, Me I'm Not etc. ... And yeah, those songs are WOW live, especially with the videowall. Something to get easily lost in.

mensane

can't wait to see the new songs translated live....which i will get to do next tuesday in hawaii....


....and i like the music of the album as well as the lyrics and back story. it is different than previous NIN albums. and that is good. i mean, pj could have made Ten over and over.....but they didnt...thankfully.