Year Zero

pjoasisrule

I think this may be my favorite NIN album lyrically.

hodge

the downward spiral here

year zero was a definite surprise for its greatness (i expected the contrary after with_a_teeth_a)

pjoasisrule

I actually really liked With Teeth, seems like alot of fans dislike the album........dont really understand it

pearljam0000

pjoasisrule wrote:

I actually really liked With Teeth, seems like alot of fans dislike the album........dont really understand it

I agree with you I really liked With Teeth also. I also really like Year Zero a lot too.

pjoasisrule

Do fans not like it because it got so much radio play? Is it because the songs have alot of guitar and are less experimental?

lalalalaaaaaaaa

pjoasisrule wrote:

Do fans not like it because it got so much radio play? Is it because the songs have alot of guitar and are less experimental?

Although I like it, you gotta realize that With Teeth marked a major turning point in Reznor's artistic career. That and Year Zero are very different from most of his previous work. He now seems more concerned with artistry and expression than using 3rd party characters and symbolism to generate an outlet for his inner demons. Many fans who connected so deeply with anything before With Teeth just can't accept the new direction. Personally, I like the change. I wouldn't want to see him go out making The Downward Spiral 10 times over.

geishagrrl

I like about half the songs on W_T and a few songs on YZ. A lot of the songs seem to lack depth, IMO, or don't stand out much from one another. If you listen to TDS or The Fragile, they have a lot of depth musically. My problem with YZ is that I stop caring about half way through the album. It doesn't keep me interested. W_T had the problem of not sounding nearly as good on CD as it did live. Songs that I found boring or annoying on the album were not that bad live and songs that I liked were even better live. Having not seen them on this tour, I can't yet say the same for YZ. There is also the problem of his vocals on this album. I refuse to listen to Capital G simply because he sounds like he has the hiccups. Probably the worst NIN song I have ever heard. Even more terrible than Deep. I skip the first two tracks, skip Capital G, and lose interest somewhere around The Warning. Me, I'm Not and My Violent Heart are probably the best songs on the album. But that's just my feelings on it. I'm glad that others are enjoying it. Hopefully as Trent continues, he'll get better again. :P It's still a damn site better than that crap that Manson put out this year. That was laughable.

AiCPearlJamWeen

I hated YZ and partially still listen to W_T.

YZ was rushed and you can tell. I love NIN to death, maybe on the same level as PJ but YZ was horrid. The only song I actually can stand listening to is The Warning.

PearlJamaholic

i dont like year zero at all. i cant believe this is a nin album at all. i even like with teeth alot. i like nearly every song on that album and not one on year zero. this has to be one of the biggest let downs ever. i really thought year zero would be my favorite album of the year, with out question. i hope the follow up isnt this horrible. i use to think trent couldnt make bad music if he tired. i guess i was wrong.

Sludge Factory

I'd have to say Year Zero is one of my favorite albums to come out in a very long time.

Jeremy1012

pjoasisrule wrote:

I actually really liked With Teeth, seems like alot of fans dislike the album........dont really understand it

I really like it too. right where it belongs is one of my favourite NIN songs.

audiodave

PearlJamaholic wrote:

i use to think trent couldnt make bad music if he tired. i guess i was wrong.

That's a bit of a blanket statement. Just because you personally don't like it, it doesn't make it bad.

I love Year Zero, and With Teeth, but I can understand why some others don't. Year Zero is different because it's really the first album that isn't lyrically looking inwards, it's more concerned with the world than with what's going on inside someone's head.

My favourite album, lyrically and otherwise, has to be The Fragile.

reznors edge

As a die hard NIN fan who views DownwardSpiral and TheFragile as masterpieces, I have to say that YZ was a bit of a let down. It sounds less like a "rock album" than any other NIN album. Contrary to WT(which I love), there is very little live drumming on this record. And you have to try really hard to notice any good guitar playing. However, I think the cool "end of the world" concept almost makes up for it. One has to consider that this record was a little rushed since it was all created on laptops in hotel rooms during the tour. Trent is a little anxious to make up for a lot of time he lost because of drug abuse. So it definitley has that "hurried" feel to it.

hguz73

It's a good album (as a matter of fact all of NIN album's are great)..but you can't expect every single one of them to sound exactly the same.If it was a let down..hmm..maybe..i really expected a little bit more.I think that if this wasn't a NIN album it would be very good, the thing is that we compare it to its other great cds.

pjoasisrule

My main problem with Year Zero is that it doesnt have a good replay value, loved it when it first came out but dont care to listen to it all that much anymore. I still think its a brilliant album nonetheless. I also dont think Trent could make a bad album.

LukinFan

sucks

reznors edge

LukinFan wrote:

sucks

thanks for the insight.
It may not be as great as the other NIN albums, but it's still a solid effort, nonetheless. The writing is completely different than before because it's not as personal and focuses more on the outside world. Sobriety and maturity tends to do that! In this Twilight and Zero Sum do a good job of ending the album on a tragically beautiful note. Picture the world in armegeddon state. Another Version of the Truth is one of NIN's most touching instrumentals. I hear there is a YearZero 2 on the way next year!

mensane

first of all...personally, i love With Teeth. very rock and roll. verrrrry good live.

as for Year Zero....i would like to address the people who dont like it. i am curious if you followed the ARG that was going on prior to the release. i followed just about every bit of it and the songs mean so much to me since i know the back story of the characters that the songs are about (and sung from their point of view). when the album first came out, i used the analogy of a movie.....if you hadnt followed the ARG, it was like watching a movie in black and white; where if you had followed it, you saw it in vivid color. i tend to listen to Year Zero only when i can listen to the whole album in order (such as during long drives). something about the chaos and energy leading into Zero Sum still gives me the chills and brings tears to my eyes. i keep seeing that final "letter" in the ARG from the soldier to his family...saying goodbye.

Trent said many times that the album was only a PART of the entire experience that is Year Zero. so if you didnt follow the ARG and you feel like the album is missing "something", you are right.

but i love it and cannot wait for part two.

reznors edge

Knowing the ARG and understaning the concept of the album definitely helps to appriciate it a whole lot more. I love the way the song sequence was arranged to tell the story of the end of the world. It starts off nicely with Begining of the End/Survivalism and takes you through the journey with a little bit of a SciFi angle and ends with a haunting portrayal of the world's demise. Like all concept albums, it works best when listened to as a whole.
An album like this one needed to be made for these times.

geishagrrl

The songs should be able to sound like good songs with or without the ARG. Ultimately the words are not as important as the over all music. He could be singing jibberish and, if it was a good album musically, it wouldn't matter. If the songs cannot stand on their own, the ARG is pointless. Personally I think Trent is crazy if he thinks that everyone who listens to his music is going to invest the time to figure all that shit out. I'm sorry but I don't have the time to sit around and try and figure out these websites and call 1-800 numbers just so I can understand what the album is about. And findng out from other places what the ARG was about didn't help the album. The majority of the songs were still mediocre at best, IMO.

PearlJamaholic

the background story is all fine and dandy but like the person above mentioned, doesnt change the fact that the songs arent that good.

if creed/scott sapp wrote a pulitzer prize winning novel and says its the back story to human clay does it make human clay a great album all of a sudden.

if they album cant stand on its own merits its not a good album. yz doesnt even impress me with the massive back story, let alone music alone.

the best song on the album is the intrumental near the end in my opinion. maybe trent should have spent the time writing the songs instead of doing all the secret websites and hidden messages on tshirts and all that.

and the black and white, color movie comment makes no sense to me. best horror movie ever is night of the living dead. and thats black and white. some of my favorite albums were recorded live to four track or other non fancy styles.

in the end its the music that counts, no matter how glossy or bare it is, a good song is a good song, and a bad song is a bad song. you cant hide that fact, but you can try.

pjoasisrule

mensane wrote:

first of all...personally, i love With Teeth. very rock and roll. verrrrry good live.

as for Year Zero....i would like to address the people who dont like it. i am curious if you followed the ARG that was going on prior to the release. i followed just about every bit of it and the songs mean so much to me since i know the back story of the characters that the songs are about (and sung from their point of view). when the album first came out, i used the analogy of a movie.....if you hadnt followed the ARG, it was like watching a movie in black and white; where if you had followed it, you saw it in vivid color. i tend to listen to Year Zero only when i can listen to the whole album in order (such as during long drives). something about the chaos and energy leading into Zero Sum still gives me the chills and brings tears to my eyes. i keep seeing that final "letter" in the ARG from the soldier to his family...saying goodbye.

Trent said many times that the album was only a PART of the entire experience that is Year Zero. so if you didnt follow the ARG and you feel like the album is missing "something", you are right.

but i love it and cannot wait for part two.

It is awesome live, Know What You Are is definitely one of my favorites live

Pearlrevolver

geishagrrl wrote:

The songs should be able to sound like good songs with or without the ARG. Ultimately the words are not as important as the over all music. He could be singing jibberish and, if it was a good album musically, it wouldn't matter. If the songs cannot stand on their own, the ARG is pointless. Personally I think Trent is crazy if he thinks that everyone who listens to his music is going to invest the time to figure all that shit out. I'm sorry but I don't have the time to sit around and try and figure out these websites and call 1-800 numbers just so I can understand what the album is about. And findng out from other places what the ARG was about didn't help the album. The majority of the songs were still mediocre at best, IMO.

Trent is at a point in his career where he is going to release material to people that actually want to listen to it. He knows he has fans that want to look up websites, call 1-800#'s and are willing to follow a story. He's not making records to get a new audience, he's making records that are interesting to him. If you don't want to follow the story, no problem, but to say the words are not as important as the music doesn't really make sense in this case because the words are the narrative to the overall description of the story.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Pearlrevolver wrote:

Trent is at a point in his career where he is going to release material to people that actually want to listen to it. He knows he has fans that want to look up websites, call 1-800#'s and are willing to follow a story. He's not making records to get a new audience, he's making records that are interesting to him. If you don't want to follow the story, no problem, but to say the words are not as important as the music doesn't really make sense in this case because the words are the narrative to the overall description of the story.

I totally agree. He has always made the music that excites HIM. That's what the best artists do. They create for themselves, not others. He knows many people follow his work, so he does take that into consideration, but I think that only comes into play after the work is completed. He always makes some kind of effort to make the album packaging interesting and other stuff. I seriously doubt he was sitting around and said "I should make a concept album because I think people would really like it and I'd gain lots of new fans". Nah.

And actually, I'm one of those people who doesn't follow the concept, but I still like the album.

chitty

I liked WT alot, but YZ is a little too out there for me. Some very good songs and then I get lost about half way through like someone else said.

Anyways, I am in Beijing and get to see NIN here tomorrow. Should be interesting to see a Chinese crowd at a rock concert, though I do suspect at least half the people will be expats. I'll post on here the day or two after the show if anyone is interested.

pearljam0000

chitty wrote:

I liked WT alot, but YZ is a little too out there for me. Some very good songs and then I get lost about half way through like someone else said.

How do you get lost listening to an album? Just fuckin listen to it.

geishagrrl

Pearlrevolver wrote:

Trent is at a point in his career where he is going to release material to people that actually want to listen to it. He knows he has fans that want to look up websites, call 1-800#'s and are willing to follow a story. He's not making records to get a new audience, he's making records that are interesting to him. If you don't want to follow the story, no problem, but to say the words are not as important as the music doesn't really make sense in this case because the words are the narrative to the overall description of the story.

There is a principle in art that says that a piece of art is only as good as the sum of its parts. The whole piece of art is what is most important but it can only work if all of the elements that make it up work as well. So if one part of a piece of art fails, it hurts the art as a whole. I would hope we could all agree that music is a form of art and the lyrics are only a part of that music. The structure of the song, the melodies and harmonies, the actual instrumental music is a big part of that art. So therefor, the words are not as important as the over all music because that is the end result and the lyrics only part of it.

My point was that knowing or following the ARG or what the album is about does not help if you think the music as a whole is not good. The argument was being made that one cannot appreciate the album without knowing the ARG and, I'm sorry, but you can write a fantastic story or a beautiful poem but if the song AS A WHOLE is not good, the words will not save it. We are talking about if it is a good ALBUM, not story. Is it an interesting story? Yeah sure. I'll even watch the show or movie if they ever actually make one. But as a piece of MUSIC, it falls short, IMO.

Or you could look at it from another angle. Lets suppose that the art form is supposed to be a musical of sorts. If a musical was debuted on Broadway that had a kick ass story but only so-so music, would people look past that? I doubt it. The music is a big part of a musical and if it fails then it hurts the success of the musical art as a whole.

I never said anything about him doing it to gain new fans, so I'm not sure were you were coming from with that. All musicians should be making music that they themselves think is great, no matter if they have a following or not. It should have nothing to do with what stage of your career you are in. I would hope and I do personally believe that Trent always was making music that is interesting to him. I just personally think that this effort wasn't that great musically and because that is what an album is ultimately about, well there you go.

I have no problem if others like the album. But I am disagreeing with the idea that understanding the ARG would somehow change one's opinion of the music as a whole. You are going to either like the music or you are not.

As for getting lost while listening to an album, I would say losing interest. And just listening to it won't change that. I've tried. It just doesn't keep my interest.

JPS79

I don't think I've listened to this album all the way through except once the day it came out, the "political agenda" feel was different coming from Trent. Not that it is a bad thing just un-expected more of a RATM thing. But I am looking forward to the 2nd half of this opus. Any word on when that is?

lalalalaaaaaaaa

geishagrrl wrote:

I am disagreeing with the idea that understanding the ARG would somehow change one's opinion of the music as a whole. You are going to either like the music or you are not.

I agree. I know very little detail about the story behind Year Zero, but I never listen to records to find out what the artist meant to say. If it doesn't mean anything to me, it's not gonna matter if I understand what they meant or not. I don't know why people would listen to music, or pay attention to any art unless they were making a personal connection with it.

chitty

saw NIN in beijing yesterday and it was very good imo. They opened with Year Zero's intro and first song. Played mostly hits and some new songs, which gave me a renewed appreciation for those songs. The bass on some in particular was LOUD, especially Me, I'm Not. All in all a good show.
The 1/2 chinese, 1/2 expat crowd didn't seem to know NIN that well, but didn't take away from my experience. There was some bouncing and crowd surfing, but the stage was a very long way away from the crowd. There was probably more crowd surfing and bouncing during Marky Ramone's set. I also saw at least four different chinese people get escorted into a building by military officers after they exited the mosh area. Who knows what happened to them.
If you get teh chance, I'd recommend NIN live. New songs play well.

bedface cooper.

chitty wrote:

saw NIN in beijing yesterday and it was very good imo. They opened with Year Zero's intro and first song. Played mostly hits and some new songs, which gave me a renewed appreciation for those songs. The bass on some in particular was LOUD, especially Me, I'm Not. All in all a good show.
The 1/2 chinese, 1/2 expat crowd didn't seem to know NIN that well, but didn't take away from my experience. There was some bouncing and crowd surfing, but the stage was a very long way away from the crowd. There was probably more crowd surfing and bouncing during Marky Ramone's set. I also saw at least four different chinese people get escorted into a building by military officers after they exited the mosh area. Who knows what happened to them.
If you get teh chance, I'd recommend NIN live. New songs play well.

Thanks for the short review, sounds really brilliant. They've had some problems with European audiences and promoters (alright, Germans and Austrians in that case), it's reassuring to hear that they were good.

As for Year Zero - It has grown on me, I like it a lot now. I love the bass on songs like Good Soldier, Me I'm Not etc. ... And yeah, those songs are WOW live, especially with the videowall. Something to get easily lost in.