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The GUITAR in rock peaked in the 90s

reversedarwinismreversedarwinism Posts: 1,151
edited February 2008 in Other Music
with grunge rock. Never has the guitar sounded better or got a bigger cut in the over all sound. Not saying they were the best guitar players, just that the guitar was more obvious then. There was plenty of "guitar rock" before, but the sound wasn't as developed or loud. And I must say since then the guitar's place in rock music has decreased. More often, I now hear just a distorted wall of guitar, no distinction in the riff. That kind of guitar playing sounds even worse live. I like Korn, but may be they started it - idk. From new alternative to nu metal the guitar has just become another back up instrument to the vocals. It certainly wasn't like that in the grunge era, definately a reason why I like that music the most.
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  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    actually, this was the peak of guitar in rock music - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Ladyland

    and I'm not even a big fan. I just don't think it can really be disputed.
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  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Guitar rock peaked with Jimi.

    Now, there are STILL a lot of good, young players today. Derek Trucks, Davey Knowles, John Mayer, etc...
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • reversedarwinismreversedarwinism Posts: 1,151
    Well, I agree that Jimi was possibly the greatest. I'm just saying in terms of the overall sound of guitar in rock music it built and built to the grunge period then has slid back since. Hendrix and Zeppelin and Sabbath have huge guitar sound in their music as do many others, but I still don't hear that it was louder or more evident and developped than with grunge era bands. Best players ever is not what I am talking about.
    bombs, dropping down, please forgive our hometown
  • Joe2TheRevengeJoe2TheRevenge Posts: 904
    guitar did NOT peak with Jimi

    claiming that it's the peak of guitar playing is like saying the rotary telephone is the peak of communication.

    Get your heads out of your asses, plenty has been done with guitar since then, from artistry to technicality to quality to recording techniques to effects to etc....etc....etc....

    Saying Jimi is the peak is disgracing every single person that came after him that took what he did and EXPANDED and IMPROVED it FOR YOUR LISTENING PLEASURE

    And if you want to argue, then just for the sake of argument pretend we could stick 1980s Eddie Van Halen in a time machine and put him onstage at Woodstock. You think people would still be talking about Jimi Hendrix right now?
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  • Rhinocerous SurpriseRhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    Joe2TheRevenge wrote:
    guitar did NOT peak with Jimi

    claiming that it's the peak of guitar playing is like saying the rotary telephone is the peak of communication.

    Get your heads out of your asses, plenty has been done with guitar since then, from artistry to technicality to quality to recording techniques to effects to etc....etc....etc....

    Saying Jimi is the peak is disgracing every single person that came after him that took what he did and EXPANDED and IMPROVED it FOR YOUR LISTENING PLEASURE

    And if you want to argue, then just for the sake of argument pretend we could stick 1980s Eddie Van Halen in a time machine and put him onstage at Woodstock. You think people would still be talking about Jimi Hendrix right now?

    Eddie Van Halen happened. People still talk about Jimi as the better guitarist.
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  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Joe2TheRevenge wrote:
    guitar did NOT peak with Jimi

    claiming that it's the peak of guitar playing is like saying the rotary telephone is the peak of communication.

    Get your heads out of your asses, plenty has been done with guitar since then, from artistry to technicality to quality to recording techniques to effects to etc....etc....etc....

    Saying Jimi is the peak is disgracing every single person that came after him that took what he did and EXPANDED and IMPROVED it FOR YOUR LISTENING PLEASURE

    And if you want to argue, then just for the sake of argument pretend we could stick 1980s Eddie Van Halen in a time machine and put him onstage at Woodstock. You think people would still be talking about Jimi Hendrix right now?
    You think Eddie Van Halen would have happened without Jimi? I don't think so. Jimi was SO innovative and ahead of his time. It's like the Beatles in the studio. There are bands that have done more innovative things since them, but they are THE most innovative.

    OBVIOUSLY technique improves over time, but is the quality of the music any better? The guys from dragonforce can play at a million miles an hour, but it sounds like shit.

    And I don't think Eddie had any soul. I don't feel anything when I hear his playing other than 'wow, that was cool'. Eruption is a cool solo, BUT it's not within the context of a song. It's one thing to just 'go off' but its another thing to do so WELL within the context of a song, and that was Jimis true genious. Like I said, playing fast isnt the be all and end all of guitar playing, you have to feeeeeeeeeeel something, and that's what jimi did.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • frusciante89frusciante89 Posts: 125
    keeponrockin wrote:
    You think Eddie Van Halen would have happened without Jimi? I don't think so. Jimi was SO innovative and ahead of his time. It's like the Beatles in the studio. There are bands that have done more innovative things since them, but they are THE most innovative.

    OBVIOUSLY technique improves over time, but is the quality of the music any better? The guys from dragonforce can play at a million miles an hour, but it sounds like shit.

    And I don't think Eddie had any soul. I don't feel anything when I hear his playing other than 'wow, that was cool'. Eruption is a cool solo, BUT it's not within the context of a song. It's one thing to just 'go off' but its another thing to do so WELL within the context of a song, and that was Jimis true genious. Like I said, playing fast isnt the be all and end all of guitar playing, you have to feeeeeeeeeeel something, and that's what jimi did.
    Bingo on EVH guitar playing
  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    I think a really loud guitar is almost always absent from the absolute mainstream music. It was only really loud in the 90's in "alternative" music, just as it is today.
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  • Rhinocerous SurpriseRhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    DOSW wrote:
    I think a really loud guitar is almost always absent from the absolute mainstream music. It was only really loud in the 90's in "alternative" music, just as it is today.

    The difference being that the "alternative" was pushed into the mainstream back then. Now you gotta dig a little deeper - but it's out there.:)
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  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    The difference being that the "alternative" was pushed into the mainstream back then. Now you gotta dig a little deeper - but it's out there.:)

    Yeah, but I'd still say that alternative is pretty popular today. It's just that there's traditional pop music that's considered the absolute mainstream, just like there was in the early 90's, which I think is always just a little more popular than alt. But their popularity mixes all the time I guess.
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  • NovawindNovawind Posts: 836
    To me this seems like a silly topic; definitions of peak, guitar, and rock will definitely vary depending on who you talk to. Just listen to what you like and don't listen to what you don't like. I don't really understsand why there has to be an overall "best" in music.
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  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    reversedarwinism wrote:
    Well, I agree that Jimi was possibly the greatest. I'm just saying in terms of the overall sound of guitar in rock music it built and built to the grunge period then has slid back since. Hendrix and Zeppelin and Sabbath have huge guitar sound in their music as do many others, but I still don't hear that it was louder or more evident and developped than with grunge era bands. Best players ever is not what I am talking about.
    I'm not talking about best players either. I think there are much better guitar players than Hendrix. He was just the best MUSICIAN to use one. He used the guitar in ways that no one had ever done before and no one has matched since. Electric Ladyland is the greatest achievement on guitar, musically speaking.

    I don't understand this volume thing you are talking about. Firstly, it doesn't matter at all, I don't equate volume with quality of guitar sound or development but besides that, I'm pretty sure Voodoo Child (Slight Return) has one of the most massive guitar sounds on any record ever. Listen to Ten, the guitars sound horribly distant and drenched in massive 80s reverb. That's why for the Rearviewmirror album PJ got Brendan O'Brien to remaster them. The early grunge era had some pretty dire guitar sounds when I think about it.
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  • JennytreeJennytree Posts: 5,340
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    The early grunge era had some pretty dire guitar sounds when I think about it.

    Just listen to any Nirvana album :p

    1990 was a great year for bands starting:
    Bands formed

    * Anathema
    * At the Gates
    * Carpathian Forest
    * Green Carnation
    * In Flames
    * Marduk
    * Opeth
    * Pearl Jam
    * Stone Temple Pilots
    * Tool

    From:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_in_music

    Some pretty rockin albums released that year too!
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  • reversedarwinismreversedarwinism Posts: 1,151
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I'm not talking about best players either. I think there are much better guitar players than Hendrix. He was just the best MUSICIAN to use one. He used the guitar in ways that no one had ever done before and no one has matched since. Electric Ladyland is the greatest achievement on guitar, musically speaking.

    I don't understand this volume thing you are talking about. Firstly, it doesn't matter at all, I don't equate volume with quality of guitar sound or development but besides that, I'm pretty sure Voodoo Child (Slight Return) has one of the most massive guitar sounds on any record ever. Listen to Ten, the guitars sound horribly distant and drenched in massive 80s reverb. That's why for the Rearviewmirror album PJ got Brendan O'Brien to remaster them. The early grunge era had some pretty dire guitar sounds when I think about it.

    may be not simply volume of the instrument, but a bigger cut in the mix of the songs. It's way more obvious in "grunge" rock. Before grunge it was definately there, but it doesn't sound as developped (including hendrix and zeppelin and sabbath - all of which I love) and the development, in that direction, seems to have stopped afterwards.

    And someone said that alternative bands now still have that, I'm just not hearing that. I'm sure there is some out there, but for the most part new alternative and nu metal bands seem to adopt the "just strum chord and let it ring" approach.
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  • FuzyfrogFuzyfrog Posts: 10
    Jan Akkerman > Hendrix

    Listen to Focus III and At The Rainbow for proof
  • redsdiseaseredsdisease Posts: 147
    Can people please stop saying grunge. It's a meaningless, dumb sounding word.
    Jimmy Carter has disco fever.
  • glasshouseglasshouse Posts: 1,762
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  • muppetmuppet Posts: 980
    I think people closley identify with the era that they grew up in so it's hard to be objective on the matter.

    My personal favourite would also be the 90s, however. Distortion!
  • JennytreeJennytree Posts: 5,340
    redsdisease wrote:
    Can people please stop saying grunge. It's a meaningless, dumb sounding word.

    So are a lot of words in the english language. Sorry, Mr. Anti-Grunge Police. :p
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  • nuffingmannuffingman Posts: 3,014
    Novawind wrote:
    To me this seems like a silly topic; definitions of peak, guitar, and rock will definitely vary depending on who you talk to. Just listen to what you like and don't listen to what you don't like. I don't really understsand why there has to be an overall "best" in music.
    I agree with most of this but not the silly topic bit. We all like to discuss who we think is the best and have our own opinions. I don't agree that rock guitar playing peaked with the likes of Nirvana and the so called Grunge era. I feel some of that playing didn't have soul and feel. There again I prefer blues guitar playing. I was a teenager in the 70s and there were a number of guitar rock bands that i don't think have ever been beaten, Zeppelin, Deep Purple. Hendrix was a stunning guitarist but I don't like listening to him. Best guitarist I ever saw was the late great Rory Gallagher. Treat yourselves and listen to Irish Tour.
  • reversedarwinismreversedarwinism Posts: 1,151
    redsdisease wrote:
    Can people please stop saying grunge. It's a meaningless, dumb sounding word.

    Grunge.jpg
    bombs, dropping down, please forgive our hometown
  • reversedarwinismreversedarwinism Posts: 1,151
    muppet wrote:
    I think people closley identify with the era that they grew up in so it's hard to be objective on the matter.

    My personal favourite would also be the 90s, however. Distortion!

    Oh yes, the best distortion ever sounded. I'm sure that I'm over generalizing, but I just don't hear a better or bigger guitar sound than in GRUNGE. Which band is credited with influencing the distorted guitar sound of AIC, SG and Nirvana???? Is it the Melvins???? I remember Kim Thail saying something about a seatle band with a crazy sound influencing the whole scene.
    bombs, dropping down, please forgive our hometown
  • All Those YesterdaysAll Those Yesterdays Posts: 2,723
    I'd say check out The Black Keys before you say that.
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  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    because thankfully rock has rediscovered "rhythm" to replace the whiter than white masturbatory guitar wanking that became such a joke in the 90s. why do you think people moshed? becos there was no rhythm to that music so you couldn't dance to shit. why do you think pearl jam was so popular? becos stone had enough funk and soul in his writing and playing to make pearl jam transcend the scene of braindead heroin addicts using pedals to compensate for a lack talent.
  • reversedarwinismreversedarwinism Posts: 1,151
    soulsinging wrote:
    because thankfully rock has rediscovered "rhythm" to replace the whiter than white masturbatory guitar wanking that became such a joke in the 90s. why do you think people moshed? becos there was no rhythm to that music so you couldn't dance to shit. why do you think pearl jam was so popular? becos stone had enough funk and soul in his writing and playing to make pearl jam transcend the scene of braindead heroin addicts using pedals to compensate for a lack talent.

    You could actually HEAR the "rhythm" guitar in the 90s, as oppossed to most of new alternative and nu metal. You can't fucking dance to PJ or most rock for that matter.
    bombs, dropping down, please forgive our hometown
  • fadafada Posts: 1,032
    nuffingman wrote:
    I agree with most of this but not the silly topic bit. We all like to discuss who we think is the best and have our own opinions. I don't agree that rock guitar playing peaked with the likes of Nirvana and the so called Grunge era. I feel some of that playing didn't have soul and feel. There again I prefer blues guitar playing. I was a teenager in the 70s and there were a number of guitar rock bands that i don't think have ever been beaten, Zeppelin, Deep Purple. Hendrix was a stunning guitarist but I don't like listening to him. Best guitarist I ever saw was the late great Rory Gallagher. Treat yourselves and listen to Irish Tour.


    I gave a fella three blank cd with one of his choices being the Libertines. Anyway one that I did was a mixture on my computer and the other had mostly rory material from his first three solo albums. He is liking it already.


    What great guitar players are there now in comparsion to Clapton, Gallagher, Page and Hendrix?
  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    fada wrote:
    I gave a fella three blank cd with one of his choices being the Libertines. Anyway one that I did was a mixture on my computer and the other had mostly rory material from his first three solo albums. He is liking it already.


    What great guitar players are there now in comparsion to Clapton, Gallagher, Page and Hendrix?

    Jack White, Derek Trucks, John Mayer... there are plenty more I'm sure.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,953
    fada wrote:
    I gave a fella three blank cd with one of his choices being the Libertines. Anyway one that I did was a mixture on my computer and the other had mostly rory material from his first three solo albums. He is liking it already.


    What great guitar players are there now in comparsion to Clapton, Gallagher, Page and Hendrix?

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  • Blind MelonBlind Melon Posts: 911
    Johnny Shines > Jimi Hendrix
    If I could, think I would give in.
  • deadnotedeadnote Posts: 1,678
    interpol and the strokes are pretty good guitar sounds
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