Was Morrison a fraud or was he a pioneer?

Anon

I think he was really onto "something",but their are many who say not so. What do y'all tink?

momofglynn

I think he and the whole band were quite amazing. Love the doors. Love the sound. Definitely something came out of what they were doing.

analogueaddict72

Their seems to be a tendency to slag the Doors off, when Stone's film came out over in the UK it was cool to like the Doors but I get the feeling now liking the Doors isn't the cool thing.

I don't really care, from the moment I heard LA Woman 6 months before stone's film I've been a fan. Yes Morrison did some stupid things but nothing can deny the power of the music, I believe it still stands up very well today.

One question, as anyone know if the Doors remastered vinyl boxset is worth picking up, do the r/m's reek of too much tinkering or are they fine?

I've heard from some that the remixes done are either a good thing or a bad thing. Being a vinyl & analogue fan I'm dubious about remixes my friend tells me the remastering of the Stooges back cat as taken a way the raw quality of the original material and it's best picking up an original vinyl version.

Does the same equate to the newly remastered Doors box set?

Before I shell out on this would appreciate some one giving me the heads up on this.

soulsinging

they're hit and miss. they had some stellar songs that any rock fan needs. that said, i have the 2-disc absolute best of the doors set and don't feel like i need anything else from them. even then, there are a good number of songs on there i don't care for.

i thought this was gonna be about van morrison

Spacetoad

http://www.rodeoswest.com/

I was trying to find something one of my buddies said about Morrison actually dying in a bar and taken back to his apartment where he was later discovered.
I of course called BS but no - this says he is alive and well and a erm... cowboy.
Not sure his Native American Spirit would be easy with that but hey, ho.

I like the video at the bottom where there is this mustachioed cowboy and then they fade in the "Jesus Christ pose" over his face.

I have seen the new (21st Century) Doors twice and I am a genuine fan since hearing People are Strange by Echo & the Bunnymen over the end credits of the Lost Boys. With Eddie at the RRHOF in 92 and the film shortly after (I think) the music became a soundtrack to my life in the early to mid 90s. You could get away with sticking the Doors on at a party a lot easier than PJ!

A pioneer for me. The whole band though, the unmistakeable sound of the bass keyboard and Morrisons deep emotive voice. Yeah, pioneer.

TrixieCat

A fraud? Not in my opinion at all. No one could wear a pair of leather pants like that man.
I think he was amazing. A poet.
My uncle was at the show in New Haven when he was arrested onstage. He said it was surreal. Imagine trying to bust someone these days onstage? lol

Pioneer.

pjoasisrule

The best frontman of all time and one of the best bands of all time.

Hitch-Hiker

Fraud or pioneer?

Bit of both really. I love the doors. I think Jim was a great front man, the band were great musicians, and they've written some timeless music. But he was a total chancer at the same time, and there is some dross in their catalogue too. Wouldn't be a big fan of his 'poetry', but it fits great with what the band were.

redrock

Morrison was a genius, the most charismatic frontman ever (sorry Ed). The Doors were pioneers. They were a very controversial band in their time, with very different music and lyrics. I was 10 when I heard them for the first time, my friends older sister had bought their debut album which had just came out. Soooo different to what was out there at the time. My favourite band of all times.

And for soulsinging who only has a 'best of' (although the 'very best'! ).. you can't judge a band on a best of album.... You really need to hear each album as they are meant to be, the choice and flow of the songs....

civ_eng_girl

TrixieCat wrote:

A fraud? Not in my opinion at all. No one could wear a pair of leather pants like that man.
I think he was amazing. A poet.

lol! well said!

i have always had a soft spot for Jim... we share a birthdate (he would be 33 years older than me!).

I was actually in Paris just a couple of weeks ago and went to pay my respects... popped on my MP3 player and listened to Riders On The Storm...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/civ_eng_girl/Paris%202007/DSC02344.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/civ_eng_girl/Paris%202007/DSC02346.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/civ_eng_girl/Paris%202007/DSC02297.jpg

although i don't think enough credit is given to the other guys in the band for their part in the Doors' unique sound... When i think of the Doors, i think of the organ... The Doors wouldn't have been the same without Ray Manzarek.

FinsburyParkCarrots

He was an entertaining poseur, who wrote some good songs, and some dreadful ones. He certainly pioneered the idea of the shamanic frontman. I don't see him as any more of a fraud, as a singer, than any other rock performer who added a bit of theatrics to his visual repertoire. He was a fraud as a "poet", but even so, if people got into Rimbaud or Baudelaire, through first acquaintance with crap such as The Lords or The New Creatures, then ole Jimbo serves some cultural purpose.

muppet

I love Brown Eyed Girl but he's not very good live...

...oh.

augustwest

civ_eng_girl wrote:

lol! well said!

i have always had a soft spot for Jim... we share a birthdate (he would be 33 years older than me!).

I was actually in Paris just a couple of weeks ago and went to pay my respects... popped on my MP3 player and listened to Riders On The Storm...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/civ_eng_girl/Paris%202007/DSC02344.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/civ_eng_girl/Paris%202007/DSC02346.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/civ_eng_girl/Paris%202007/DSC02297.jpg

although i don't think enough credit is given to the other guys in the band for their part in the Doors' unique sound... When i think of the Doors, i think of the organ... The Doors wouldn't have been the same without Ray Manzarek.

When we were last in Paris back in the mid 1980's we did Napoleon and Jim's grave in the same day...It was weird to see the contrast...Jim in some shithole and Napoleon in this huge marble building. Both can be considered hero's of their time. Jim's grave had a cool white marble bust of him on top of the engraved tombstone, which doesn't appear in your pictures...I wonder what became to that. Anyways we signed our names on the wall surrounding the site and listened to The End...

That being said I'm in the middle on Jim's talents. A good freind says he was nothing but well contrived shite but I am leaning more towards thinking there was a brilliant mind in there somewhere, if not for the abstract poetry, alone.

Having said that I grew up loving The Doors and now it's on the top of my list of bands that I just can't listen to anymore....It would kill me to listen to Soft Parade again...I know it would make me cringe..

Pearl Jam and toast

He and the Doors are credited with being the first 'goth' band. Along with Bowie and several others he started a movement.

And as a notice to everyone on this board:

I believe that Jim Morrison was the greatest frontman to ever walk the face of the Earth and I'm willing to die for that. And you guys are gonna have to deal with that.

civ_eng_girl

augustwest wrote:

When we were last in Paris back in the mid 1980's we did Napoleon and Jim's grave in the same day...It was weird to see the contrast...Jim in some shithole and Napoleon in this huge marble building. Both can be considered hero's of their time. Jim's grave had a cool white marble bust of him on top of the engraved tombstone, which doesn't appear in your pictures...I wonder what became to that. Anyways we signed our names on the wall surrounding the site and listened to The End...

is this how you remember his grave?
http://www.jim-morrison.com/jmbust.jpg
http://home.att.net/~chuckayoub/Jim_Morrison_Grave.jpg

i think it would have been interesting to see it like that... but it has been totally cleaned up since.... in fact, there are barriers around it, preventing people from walking right up to it, and there was a security guard present.

i guess you've got to remember that those are other people's tombs surrounding his, which were being 'vandalized'...

and i don't consider Pere Lachaise cemetary as being a shit hole! one of the most beautiful and peaceful places i've been to!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/civ_eng_girl/Paris%202007/DSC02359.jpg

failedpersephone

Pioneer.

this isnt even a question by the way.


I mean, seriously. what the hell? that's like "do humans need air to breathe or can we breath iron??"

Sathogwa

analogueaddict72 wrote:

Their seems to be a tendency to slag the Doors off, when Stone's film came out over in the UK it was cool to like the Doors but I get the feeling now liking the Doors isn't the cool thing.

I don't really care, from the moment I heard LA Woman 6 months before stone's film I've been a fan. Yes Morrison did some stupid things but nothing can deny the power of the music, I believe it still stands up very well today.

One question, as anyone know if the Doors remastered vinyl boxset is worth picking up, do the r/m's reek of too much tinkering or are they fine?

I've heard from some that the remixes done are either a good thing or a bad thing. Being a vinyl & analogue fan I'm dubious about remixes my friend tells me the remastering of the Stooges back cat as taken a way the raw quality of the original material and it's best picking up an original vinyl version.]

The remasters are pretty cool overall. The sound IS different. You can hear things going on that you never noticed before. Some songs sound better the old way, but some songs sound AMAZING remastered. Five to One sound fucking great--even heavier (if that is possible) and more menacing. Pretty good, pretty neat, as Morrison might say. I don't know if it is worth shelling the money out for, but it is cool to hear.

bookmuse

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

And as a notice to everyone on this board:

I believe that Jim Morrison was the greatest frontman to ever walk the face of the Earth and I'm willing to die for that. And you guys are gonna have to deal with that.

I can deal with this....I have believed this as well for the last 27 years since I was 12. They were an innovative band and Jim.............that moment on Sullivan when he looked in the camera and sung "higher"-he was punk rock before punk rock.

augustwest wrote:

That being said I'm in the middle on Jim's talents. A good freind says he was nothing but well contrived shite but I am leaning more towards thinking there was a brilliant mind in there somewhere, if not for the abstract poetry, alone.

I agree with you. I think he was very bright actually (from what I've read and seen), he just made very foolish choices regarding his heavy use of drugs and alcohol (or maybe I should say they led to many of his choices) but he was fighting his demons.

To answer the original posters question and Jim was no fraud - ashowman at times but not a fraud.

Evacuation Rules

analogueaddict72 wrote:

One question, as anyone know if the Doors remastered vinyl boxset is worth picking up, do the r/m's reek of too much tinkering or are they fine?

They were totally remixed from scratch. Some remixes are great, some are awful. You're probably better off looking for mint copies of the original LP's, which shouldn't be too hard to find. For CD, I have the DCC gold discs which were transferred straight from the original masters with no tinkering. They sound awesome! The "previous" batch of remastered Doors CD's were modeled after the DCC's as well, so they should suit anyone just fine. I'm avoiding the new CD's/vinyl like the plague. There's no reason to tinker with history like that!

redrock

bookmuse wrote:

.............that moment on Sullivan when he looked in the camera and sung "higher"-he was punk rock before punk rock.

That was a brilliant moment.... soooooooo naughty! :D

wavescamecrashing

pioneer

no doubt about it.

i'm digging out my doors dvd for tonight now!

Anon

Hey,with the song "Not To Touch The earth" alone Morrison shows his sheer genious. He was so damn literate for a rocker!

augustwest

civ_eng_girl wrote:

is this how you remember his grave?
http://www.jim-morrison.com/jmbust.jpg
http://home.att.net/~chuckayoub/Jim_Morrison_Grave.jpg

i think it would have been interesting to see it like that... but it has been totally cleaned up since.... in fact, there are barriers around it, preventing people from walking right up to it, and there was a security guard present.

i guess you've got to remember that those are other people's tombs surrounding his, which were being 'vandalized'...

and i don't consider Pere Lachaise cemetary as being a shit hole! one of the most beautiful and peaceful places i've been to!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/civ_eng_girl/Paris%202007/DSC02359.jpg

When I saw his grave it was cleaner than the photo with the writing all over the bust...there was no writing on the actual bust but almost everywhere else and yes you could go right up to it and place your hand on it if you wanted to. The security gaurd did his rounds but was not stationed at the grave, per say. It a shame they didn't clean up the bust and leave it in place.

Did you see Napoleon's grave? No offense to that cemetary but the building Napoleon is in is certainly KING worthy, unlike Jim's grave site...

civ_eng_girl

augustwest wrote:

Did you see Napoleon's grave? No offense to that cemetary but the building Napoleon is in is certainly KING worthy, unlike Jim's grave site...

hmm... i guess the city of Paris didn't consider the Lizard King to be actual royalty...

fada

robgray2772 wrote:

http://www.rodeoswest.com/

I was trying to find something one of my buddies said about Morrison actually dying in a bar and taken back to his apartment where he was later discovered.
I of course called BS but no - this says he is alive and well and a erm... cowboy.
Not sure his Native American Spirit would be easy with that but hey, ho.

I like the video at the bottom where there is this mustachioed cowboy and then they fade in the "Jesus Christ pose" over his face.

I have seen the new (21st Century) Doors twice and I am a genuine fan since hearing People are Strange by Echo & the Bunnymen over the end credits of the Lost Boys. With Eddie at the RRHOF in 92 and the film shortly after (I think) the music became a soundtrack to my life in the early to mid 90s. You could get away with sticking the Doors on at a party a lot easier than PJ!

A pioneer for me. The whole band though, the unmistakeable sound of the bass keyboard and Morrisons deep emotive voice. Yeah, pioneer.

Saw a documentary about that last night on TG4 . It was in the papers over the weekend how he od'd on 90% herion in the Rock and roll circus and how they was a big cover up and he was put back in his apartment.

~I really like the doors but I want to know what happened the other members of the band when Jim died?

Really like the band by the way

glasshouse

he was an indian chief trapped inside the body of bio-sexual pretty boy with a gloden voice and a dick as hard as asphalt

civ_eng_girl

fada wrote:

~I really like the doors but I want to know what happened the other members of the band when Jim died?

Really like the band by the way

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doors

check out the section called "The 90's and Beyond"

it gives a good idea of what's going on now...

I saw "Riders On The Storm" play a few years back with Ian Astbury. (As I mentioned before, I think Ray was amazing, and I was pretty excited about seeing him play live, even without Jim).... Ian did a great job... and from a distance, with the dark hair and leather pants, he even looked a bit like Jim!

civ_eng_girl

fada wrote:

Saw a documentary about that last night on TG4 . It was in the papers over the weekend how he od'd on 90% herion in the Rock and roll circus and how they was a big cover up and he was put back in his apartment.

oh! i read an article once (in RS i think), saying that he did die in his apartment, and that his girlfriend Pamala was afraid to call the cops because of all the drugs involved.... so, being totally strung out herself, and not wanting to accept that fact that he was dead, she kept his body in the apartment for days (!), until a friend came over and discovered what had happened and convinced her to call the cops.... :eek:

pretty greusome...

Get_Right

he was a pioneer, an artist and a poet

unfortunately he was more of a drunk than anything else

DCGARDEN

Jim Morrison cannot be a fraud, because he did'nt contrive anything. It wasn't an act with him. He was who he was, albeit someone who was not sober.

His voice is one of the most recognizable and impressive in rock history, and the Doors music was SO different than what was going on back then, that you'd have to be a fool to say they did'nt leave their mark.

augustwest

civ_eng_girl wrote:

hmm... i guess the city of Paris didn't consider the Lizard King to be actual royalty...

I wouldn't travel back to that city if someone paid the hotel & airfare
But that's another story...lol

I not so sure Napoleon really deserved to be where he was buried...I think the city of Paris got those 2 gravesites mixed up