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My problem with Zeitgeist...

Cropduster84Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
edited June 2008 in Other Music
None of the songs have any emotional impact on me......



I find it hard to believe this is the same Billy Corgan that wrote Thirty Three, Crestfallen, In The Arms of Sleep, Mayonaise, Stand Inside Your Love, Tonight Tonight, Slow Dawn, etc.....



Zeitgeist is empty to me......
'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
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Comments

  • Joe2TheRevengeJoe2TheRevenge Posts: 904
    Zwan was Smashing Pumpkins-lite

    and Zeitgeist is Zwan-lite
    You can't spell "dumb" without DMB
  • Cropduster84Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
    Joe2TheRevenge wrote:
    Zwan was Smashing Pumpkins-lite

    and Zeitgeist is Zwan-lite


    I very much agree with that.....
    'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
  • hodgehodge Posts: 519
    Neverlost, That's The Way My Love Is
    ..and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
  • rhcpjam1029rhcpjam1029 Posts: 1,968
    Zeitgeist is an awesome album though. Bring The Light totally gets me.
    Beavis: All my friends are brown and red? What does that mean?
    Butthead: It means that his friends are like turds and that they like suck.
    Beavis: Heh heh. Oh yeah. Yeah! Get those spoons out of my face before I shove them up your butt!
    Butthead: Huh huh.
  • Music For RhinosMusic For Rhinos Posts: 1,693
    I don't have Zeitgeist and have only heard the singles plus Pomp and Circumstances.

    I have liked everything I've heard.

    Yet, everyone says it's a bad album, I don't get it.
  • hailhail82hailhail82 Posts: 330
    I think it's a great record. I guess the problem most people have is that it doesn't show the range that the great records do. There's no real soft material on there that is as good as what came before. Billy set out to write a great, heavy album and I think he did that, but it doesn't contain the emotional dexterity of the previous albums.
    Using the word "methinks" in your message board posts doesn't make you look smart.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    Cropduster84 wrote:
    None of the songs have any emotional impact on me......



    I find it hard to believe this is the same Billy Corgan that wrote Thirty Three, Crestfallen, In The Arms of Sleep, Mayonaise, Stand Inside Your Love, Tonight Tonight, Slow Dawn, etc.....



    Zeitgeist is empty to me......

    Ah but it does have some really strong melodies. Personally I think it's better than both Adore and Machina, purely becasue it's more consistent. Both those albums had some amazing moments (which probably eclipse anything on Zeitgeist), but a ridiculous amount of filler too.

    I'm not sure really where I stand on the Pumpkins these days. They put on a helluva show at Shepherd's Bush Empire last year, but then delivered an incredibly self-indulgent snore-fest at Reading. I was gutted. Fifteen minutes of Heavy Metal Machine was mind-numbing in the extreme. How they possibly thought they were going to top NIN with such a lacklustre performance is anybody's guess. Fuck, Lostprophets put on a more entertaining show.

    I was first in line to defend them returning with just the two original members, musically speaking it shouldn't matter, and Zeitgeist does have a fair few decent songs. But, it does seem that the other original members helped to temper Billy Corgan's insane ego - something which hired hands don't seem able to do.
  • bladworth116bladworth116 Posts: 344
    i think that Billy did things on such a grand rock scale with Zeitgeist that some of the emotional impact was lost in translation. that could have been his intent with this one
  • Bangers_n_mashBangers_n_mash Posts: 1,241
    Some of the new songs are great live. Like For God And Country acoustic, sweet tune live (love Ginger's backing vocals! ;)). But on Zeitgeist it sounds kinda hollow. And as with the whole album there's too much of Billy's voice layered over itself a dozen times...
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  • Bangers_n_mashBangers_n_mash Posts: 1,241
    djerdap wrote:
    The album is crap. Lifeless and bland. Dozens of guitar layers trying to cover the one thing this album misses - at least one memorable melody.

    Not to mention Corgan's vocals are terrible throughout the record. He sounds much better live, ironically.

    I'll admit United States rocks, though.
    Bingo! Lifeless and bland. :(
    uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹ,ǝʍ 'punoɹ ʎɐʍ ɹǝɥʇo ǝɥʇ ןןɐ s,ʇı
  • Cropduster84Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
    yeah, i think lifeless and bland sums it up for me.....


    it all just sounds very flat......

    When i think of songs like Stand Inside Your Love and Mayonaise, theres nothing remotely comparable on this one.....
    'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
  • DaytimeDilemmaDaytimeDilemma Posts: 2,008
    The problem with Zeitgeist is that it is horrible
  • Cropduster84Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
    DaytimeDilemma wrote:
    The problem with Zeitgeist is that it is horrible


    lol yeah :D
    'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
  • Music For RhinosMusic For Rhinos Posts: 1,693
    speaking of the pumpkins, does anyone have corgans solo album, the future embrace....if so, any good?
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    djerdap wrote:
    The album is crap. Lifeless and bland. Dozens of guitar layers trying to cover the one thing this album misses - at least one memorable melody.

    Not to mention Corgan's vocals are terrible throughout the record. He sounds much better live, ironically.

    I'll admit United States rocks, though.

    I don't think it lacks memorable melodies at all. Doomsday Clock and Tarantula are both very catchy modern rock songs. I think the album lacks identity to an extent, which is what makes it less memorable than stuff like Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie, where the songs all seemed to fit together seemlessly.

    I think the problem they faced was, after a fair few years apart, how did they pick up where they left off and yet still sound current. That is no mean feat, and I think what they really decided to do, was to try and create an album that has a little bit of all their old styles mixed together. Consequently the album as a whole doesn't sound very cohesive. I don't know what people really expected? Considering where they finished with Machina (their worst album IMO), I think Zeitgeist has some flashes of brilliance that I presumed were gone for good. The musical landscape has changed so much in the time they were apart, that it's hard to know exactly where they fit in these days, and I'm sure that played pretty heavy on their minds when they wrote the album.

    I guess what I'm getting at is, that I think people are being unnecessarily harsh. Cut them a little slack, they're just finding their feet again. I also find it much easier to appreciate the album for what it is, rather than what it isn't. I agree that the production is waaaay too polished, but that happens on plenty of decent albums, it doesn't mean the muic itself is awful.
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    Music For Rhinos wrote:
    speaking of the pumpkins, does anyone have corgans solo album, the future embrace....if so, any good?

    Steaming heap of turd, in my opinion. Boring as hell, just a lot of whining over syths and not a guitar to be heard.
  • prytocorduroyprytocorduroy Posts: 4,355
    Vocals
    5,000 different editions
    Vocals
    Vocals
    Billy's ego (all instruments played by Billy except for drums)
    -> Not that that's new...
  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,184
    Cropduster84 wrote:
    None of the songs have any emotional impact on me......



    I find it hard to believe this is the same Billy Corgan that wrote Thirty Three, Crestfallen, In The Arms of Sleep, Mayonaise, Stand Inside Your Love, Tonight Tonight, Slow Dawn, etc.....



    Zeitgeist is empty to me......

    My first Smashing Pumpkin album buy and it was one of my BEST album buys of 2007. Why visit the past after being 7 years away, they wanted a heavy album and came through with Zeitgeist.

    Odd thing is one by one I'm going back and picking up their albums starting with Siamese Dream. At first I didn't like it as much as Z however is getting everytime I now listen to it.

    Peace
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  • Music For RhinosMusic For Rhinos Posts: 1,693
    g under p wrote:
    My first Smashing Pumpkin album buy and it was one of my BEST album buys of 2007. Why visit the past after being 7 years away, they wanted a heavy album and came through with Zeitgeist.

    Odd thing is one by one I'm going back and picking up their albums starting with Siamese Dream. At first I didn't like it as much as Z however is getting everytime I now listen to it.

    Peace


    Cool, I am doing the same. Start with Gish, awesome record.
  • hodgehodge Posts: 519
    pumpkins are like PJ
    they've put our 3 mediocre albums in a row (binaural, riot act, avocado // machina 1+2, zeitgeist)

    but each album still has some killer tracks on them, and both still put on a hell of a live show
    ..and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
  • glasshouseglasshouse Posts: 1,762
    not even through the whole album (United States) yet, but i like it so far. not mind blowing, but solid enough. i like the guitar sound.
    Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30

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  • MohabMohab Posts: 310
    hodge wrote:
    pumpkins are like PJ
    they've put our 3 mediocre albums in a row (binaural, riot act, avocado // machina 1+2, zeitgeist)

    but each album still has some killer tracks on them, and both still put on a hell of a live show


    I've been listening to both bands since their debuts and I must say the last pearl jam albums have all been miles above the last sp albums, with maybe one exception.

    pearl jam > gish
    vs < SD
    vitalogy = mellon chollie
    no code >>> adore
    yield >>>>> Machina
    Binaural >>>>>> any sp album, definatley Z, A & M
    RA ??? = to A,Z,M
    Avocado > Z, A, M
    Lost Dogs < AeroPlane/ Picses
  • hodgehodge Posts: 519
    i am referring to the last 3 albums put out respectively by each band

    i also don't like the way you matched each album up

    melon collie equal to vitalogy? lol.
    ..and you will come to find that we are all one mind, capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable
  • muppetmuppet Posts: 980
    I think Smashing Pumpkins really only created two amazing albums - Siamiese Dream and Mellon Collide (which even then had a lot of filler, but it was still brilliant). Their other albums have some fucking fantastic songs on them but there's a lot of shit on it as well.

    Didn't enjoy Zeitgeist, apart from 'United States.' Holy shit what a drummer.
  • prytocorduroyprytocorduroy Posts: 4,355
    Mohab wrote:
    pearl jam > gish
    vs < SD
    vitalogy = mellon chollie
    no code >>> adore
    yield >>>>> Machina
    Binaural >>>>>> any sp album, definatley Z, A & M
    RA ??? = to A,Z,M
    Avocado > Z, A, M
    Lost Dogs < AeroPlane/ Picses
    Mine would look like this:

    Ten > Gish
    Vs. = Siamese Dream
    Vitalogy > Mellon Collie (disc one)
    No Code < Mellon Collie (disc two)
    Yield < Adore
    Binaural > MACHINA
    Riot Act = MACHINA II
    Pearl Jam > Zeitgeist

    Lost Dogs (disc one) < Pisces Iscariot
    Lost Dogs (disc two) > Judas 0

    Live at Gorge Box < Aeroplane Flies High Box



    PJ: 7; SP: 6
    That's about right in terms of how much I like PJ and SP too.
  • pjoasisrulepjoasisrule Posts: 3,412
    DaytimeDilemma wrote:
    The problem with Zeitgeist is that it is horrible

    Definitely, its just boring and bad. Kinda pathetic that they could only produce one radio single which wasnt even good. They did the right thing by hanging it up years ago, it was a mistake to come back.
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  • RicsardRicsard Posts: 1,943
    Well, 2007 was the first year for me when I found only one standout, great album released:
    Young Modern by silverchair. Really .

    Minutes to Midnight by Linkin Park (!) was my second favourite
    ...
    and Zeitgeist was the third one however I am a hc pumpkins fan since 1994.
    (I didn't like other albums so...this fact says it all)
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  • pjoasisrulepjoasisrule Posts: 3,412
    Ricsard wrote:
    Well, 2007 was the first year for me when I found only one standout, great album released:
    Young Modern by silverchair. Really .

    Minutes to Midnight by Linkin Park (!) was my second favourite
    ...
    and Zeitgeist was the third one however I am a hc pumpkins fan since 1994.
    (I didn't like other albums so...this fact says it all)

    Says what? That you have bad taste?
    Alpine Valley 2000
    Summerfest 2006

    "Why would they come to our concert just to boo us?" -Lisa Simpson
  • inmytree1380inmytree1380 Posts: 155
    I def. think that Zeitgeist was a bland album for the fact that only Billy and Jimmy recorded it, hence there is a major pressence of guitar and drums and a lack of other instrumentation (I'm not talking about the whole album, but a majority of tracks are all guitar and drums with little of anything else.).

    I enjoy some songs, but as g under p pointed out...this is the same guy that has written songs that make me enjoy life and feel at peace with the world ("Mayonaise" is a song I can never get tired of and especially enjoy listening to it on a cool spring/fall night with the windows down.) "Bring the Light," "Bleeding the Orchad," and "7 Shades of Black" are all stellar tracks, but bleeding guitar and pounding drums can only take someone so far.

    Their new 4-song EP "American Gothic" is pretty solid, though.
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  • PearlsGirlPearlsGirl Posts: 257
    Cropduster84 wrote:
    None of the songs have any emotional impact on me......



    I find it hard to believe this is the same Billy Corgan that wrote Thirty Three, Crestfallen, In The Arms of Sleep, Mayonaise, Stand Inside Your Love, Tonight Tonight, Slow Dawn, etc.....



    Zeitgeist is empty to me......

    i only listen to it cause I miss Billy... and right now I am a bit addicted to Billy's voice.
    Don't let the world bring you down, not everyone here is that fucked up and cold. Remember why you came and while you're alive, experience the warmth before you grow old.

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