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"kurt took the easy way out"
darkcrow
Posts: 1,102
as said by Flea in an interview with Zane Lowe for Radio1... just thought i'd throw that in. He was talking about how it was hard going through the drugs, deaths etc
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Oh yeah, I'm sure putting a gun to your head is easy. What a stupid comment to make.
But yeah it was a pretty stupid thing for Flea to say, he didnt mean it in a hurtful to Kurt way though.
http://www.justiceforkurt.com
like i want to be told the end
I dont agree with him but he hasn't gone down in my estimation because of it....
The Chili's have had their fair share of shit to deal with too...
Im sure losing Hillel had an affect on them....
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Easier then actually dealing with stuff. Easier than sticking around to help raise your daughter.
Not easy really, but you leave everyone else left alive to pick up the pieces while you do nothing.
http://www.justiceforkurt.com/investigation/reasons.shtml
Now I have loved the Chilis for a long time since about 92 when I first discovered BSSM, I respect them as musicians, and know they have been through a lot of shit with Hillel who overdosed, Anthony and John's addictions and theres rumor round the Chilis sites that John may be using again after the AOL sessions footage, I'm not saying Flea has gone down in my estimations because of his opinions which he is entitled to, just the way he has gone about expressing them so publicly and I'm sure if someone was to go and talk shit about Hillel in the same manor he would also find it disrespectful as I have found this.
Im not sure if its ever been confirmed but Hillel's OD was accidental, whether Kurt's was suicide or murder, it was not accidental, there's a difference there.
didnt hillel od accidently and not commit suicide?? i could be wrong
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what sorta shit would they say? "hillel was a twat for taking drugs"? i think flea and anthony would agree. they are all clean and do yoga now!
http://www.myspace.com/thelastreel http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19604327965
If it was an accidental OD (and like i said i dont know if it was or not) then he wasnt looking for a way out, just a way to get high.
Edit, sorry, i was supposed to write i CAN see where you're coming from, lol.
They could go and say Hillel killed himself delibratly, I'm sure Flea wouldn't like that, and yeah they're all clean now, not that i think Flea was ever really into taking much, anyway my point is and I stand by it, it was disrespectful of Flea to say that.
Here is some of what makes me think Kurt did not pussy his way out
THREE TIMES A LETHAL DOSE OF HEROIN?
Kurt apparently had 3 times the lethal 225 mgs dose of heroin (1.52 mgs per liter) in his blood system and intravenous puncture marks in both arms. Medical experts will tell you that such an amount, when injected directly into the bloodstream will leave you incapacitated and cause you to lapse into a coma within seconds, if not kill you instantly before the needle can even be removed from your arm. It's common for deaths of heroin overdoses to be found with the needle still sticking out of the arm. That's how quickly one lethal dose can kill a person, let alone three.
It's hard to believe that Cobain injected himself with an insane triple lethal dose of heroin, pulled the needle out of his arm, carefully put away that needle and the heroin paraphernalia neatly back into a cigar box a few feet away, rolled down and button his sleeves, then picked up a Remington 20-gauge shotgun , placed it in his mouth and discharged it. There does not seem to be another case in history in which anything close to this has ever occurred and many researchers feel it is simply impossible.
The drug Diazepam (Valium), was also found in Cobain's blood system. A drug that is known to aggravate heroin, and makes an overdose that much worse. The question remains as to why Cobain would shoot himself after taking a triple lethal dose, which clearly would have been more than enough to cause death instantly. A triple overdose, followed by shooting yourself not only doesn't make sense, but is impossible according to the medical experts.
Canadian Chemist Roger Lewis read the Cobain autopsy report. Knowing that drug related "suicides" are often a staged cover up for a murder, he studied 98 similar deaths and their pathology, criminology and forensic tests. His research is titled "Dead Men Don't Pull Triggers", and it was published in Opinion Magazine. An online version is also available and is a must-read for anyone who wants to intelligently argue that Cobain was murdered. To be fair, there is a rebuttal to Lewis' findings, which has also been posted on the web, as well as Lewis' rebuttal to the first one. Links to that debate are available in the internet coverage section of this site.
NO FINGERPRINTS?
According to the police report, there were no "legible" fingerprints on the shotgun (which some sources say indicate the gun had been wiped or cleaned), none on the pen found with the "suicide" note, or the box of shotgun shells found beside Kurt. How can you write a note, load up a shotgun with 3 shells, and shoot yourself without leaving any fingerprints on anything? Also, his head was nowhere near "blown off", as mistakenly reported by the press. It was fully intact and not as gruesome as people close to the situation had made it out to be to the media and friends. The Remington Model 11 shotgun is a very light shotgun that dealers recommend for home protection, because the shot won't penetrate walls and endanger those on the other side.
Sgt. Cameron admitted 2 years later that there were no markings on Kurt's hands indicating he had fired the weapon. "Yeah, there weren't any marks on his hands...Some rookie must've put that line in the police report." he said when speaking about the mistake in the police report. Tom Grant says: "I can say with confidence that there were no marks on Cobain's hands that would indicate he fired this weapon. I've had the police reports analyzed by other homicide detectives and criminalists. No one can figure out what these "marks" could have been. I can't explain further at this time, but I can tell you the authorities will never claim the marks were GS residue or soot. Some of the additional evidence I've obtained regarding these so-called "marks" cannot be disclosed until the case is reopened. If the Seattle authorities ever care to describe the "marks" in detail, I'll come forward with additional evidence that will prove those so--called "marks" did not really exist."
Since things were also so neatly put away at the scene and there were no fingerprints on key objects, this seems to indicate someone "swept" it before Cobain's body was discovered. He clearly was not alone in that greenhouse.
BUSINESS IN LOS ANGELES?
Courtney Love was in Los Angeles during the week preceding and up to Kurt's death and when asked by many to fly up to Seattle to help locate her husband, whom she had told others "had a shotgun" and was "suicidal," she replied, "I can't. I have business to take care of." When Tom Grant mentioned to Rosemary Carroll that Courtney had said she couldn't go to Seattle herself because she "had business in L.A", Carroll replied "She didn't have any business in L.A.!" While Kurt was in Seattle in supposed "suicide" mode, Love was arrested due to a 911 phone call reporting an overdose in her hotel room. Paramedics arrived and took her to the hospital before releasing her 2 hours later into police custody. She was charged with possession of a syringe and drug paraphernalia. Phone records show that the 911 call that got her arrested, originated from her own hotel room. Tom Grant believes this was Courtney's attempt to establish an alibi right before Kurt was found.
A SECRET SECOND NOTE?
Courtney produced a never-before seen second note to Seattle police, which she claims Kurt wrote in Rome during "his first suicide attempt". A police officer says it was not a suicide not, but rather a rambling and unflattering diatribe against her. Courtney admits the existance of this note in a December 1994 Rolling Stone interview, and to Tom Grant. Grant has her on tape saying that she burned it . Courtney says the second note also mentioned a divorce.
THE ROME INCIDENT
Kurt was not a user of Rohypnol , he also didn't drink alcohol. On March 4th 1994 in Rome, when he was on the verge of leaving Courtney and the tour he was on, he was suddenly hospitalized with these substances in his body. Many believe this was the first, failed, murder attempt as both Michael DeWitt and Courtney Love were also in that hotel room in Rome. By some miracle, Kurt survived the combination of Rohypnol and Alcohol, and told everyone, including the doctors that it was not a suicide attempt. Dr. Galletta, who treated him, agreed it was just an accident. Kurt also mentioned that he could not remember what had happened to cause the coma. This is a common side effect of Rohypnol , better known as the "date rape drug" or "roofies". At the time, Rohypnol was a colorless, odorless drug which dissolves quickly into drinks, including water, and induces amnesia (loss of memory) when abused. The prescription for this drug belonged to Courtney. She was seen popping some during an interview with Select magazine in Rome on March 3rd and it's documented in the interview. Also, Tom Grant found empty packets of the prescription with her name on it when he searched the Cobain home on April 7th.
MONEY FOR MURDER?
Eldon Hoke (aka "El Duce"), singer of a band called the Mentors, claimed he was offered $50,000 by Courtney Love three months earlier to kill her husband. On March 6, 1996, Hoke was administered a polygraph test by Dr. Edward Gelb, who is one of the country's leading polygraph experts. He was also teaching the advanced polygraph course for the FBI. Hoke passed a lie detector test with 99.7% certainty that he was telling the truth. Eldon Hoke briefly appeared in the Nick Broomfield "Kurt & Courtney" documentary.
On April 19th 1997, eight days after having his story filmed by Broomfield, Hoke was found dead in Riverside, California by the California Highway Police. A source described the events as "highly suspicious. He showed up at his house in Riverside with this guy who he introduced as his new friend none of his roommates had ever met before and said they were going out to the liquor store and would be back soon. He never returned. The 'friend' was never seen again and Hoke was found squashed on a railroad track, apparently hit by a train. Anybody who knew Hoke, according to his friends, knew that the best way to befriend him was to offer to buy him a drink. So the scenario is quite obvious."
While Grant and others believe Hoke was offered money by Courtney and was telling the truth about that, he did not personally, nor did he know who killed Kurt. Hoke used the situation to drum up publicity for himself and for a band he apparently started called "Courtney Killed Kurt". In the end, it might have been the thing that got him killed. A popular hoax has popped up in recent years where people claim they know who killed both Cobain and Hoke. Read more detailed information about Hoke including a brief transcript of the conversation he had with Courtney Love in Eldon Hoke, AKA El Duce - By Frances Barnett
A CANCELED CREDIT CARD & FLAT TIRES
There is evidence that circumstances were manipulated to prevent Kurt from using his own car and gaining access to his own money in the days leading up to his death. Courtney canceled his credit card right after he used it to purchase a flight back home to Seattle on April 1st, and according to the police report, all 4 tires of his car were flat .
MEDIA MANIPULATION
After Kurt was found dead a month later in Seattle, and could not set the record straight anymore, Courtney tells everyone that the Rome incident was actually "a suicide attempt". This went against everything Kurt, and the doctors that treated him had said about the incident. The media goes with Love's side of the story for some reason and don't question it. The few that tried had gotten legal threats tossed their way or were just pressured to back off.
Peter Cleary, a friend of Kurt's from Seattle said the following in an interview: "The thing you have to remember about all the talk of Kurt being suicidal is that all the talk only started when Courtney came out after the death and said Rome was a suicide attempt and the media picked up on all her examples of Kurt being suicidal. That's when all these people started saying,'Of course he was suicidal, just listen to his music.' But that's a bunch of crap. Sure he was a moody guy and got depressed quite often. That applies to a hell of a lot of people, including me. But nobody ever talked about Kurt being suicidal before he died, Nobody. Why do you think everybody who knew him was so surprised when Courtney said that Rome was a suicide attempt? I've read all this ignorant bullshit in the media pointing to the fact that Kurt wanted to call In utero 'I Hate Myself and I Want to Die.' It was a joke, for chrissake. That was his warped sense of humour. He was the most sarcastic guy you'll ever meet. He was not suicidal, at least not when I knew him, and I knew him for the last year of his life."
CONFLICT OF INTEREST
The medical examiner, Dr. Nikolas Hartshorne insists Cobain died from a self-inflicted shotgun wound. He was interviewed in 2000 for a VH1 Confidential story on the theories. Hartshorne is adamant that Kurt's death was "an open and shut case of suicide". "Kurt died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. I have no doubt in my mind, not one shred of doubt, that this is in fact a suicide." he says.
However, Hartshorne's credibility has been questioned due to a conflict of interest. He knew Cobain and Love personally. Hartshorne booked shows in Seattle in the late 80s. He was also a "party friend" of Courtney Love.
During a 1996 lecture by the authors of Who Killed Kurt Cobain? in Montreal, they showed video taped interviews of Hartshorne admitting he and Love were friends. Hartshorne left Seattle shortly after Kurt's death.
August 22nd 2002 Update: Mr. Hartshorne passed away on August 6th 2002 in a BASE jumping accident.
NO BEHAVIOURAL PATTERN OF SUICIDE
Kurt's friends said he preparing to leave Seattle to join friends on the East coast. Kurt apparently had made plans to see one of his favorite bands who were touring the East coast at the time. He also made plans with his grandfather, Leland Cobain, to go fishing. Michael Stipe, of R.E.M., says Kurt was going to visit him to work on music. They had struck up a friendship and planned to record something together. Why would someone that is about to commit suicide make these types of plans? When Tom Grant asked Kurt's best friend Dylan Carlson if he thought Cobain was suicidal, he was adamant, saying, "No. Not at all," and added that despite the major changes imminent in his life, Cobain was "pretty upbeat." Mark Lanegan (of the band Screaming Trees), another of Cobain's close friends, expressed the same sentiment to Grant, and later told reporters for Rolling Stone, "I never knew Kurt to be suicidal." In a Rolling Stone interview a few months earlier, Kurt was quoted as saying "I've never been more happier in my life". Not one of the therapists who spoke with Cobain just a few days before his death at the Exodus Treatment Center (one of the most renowned drug rehabilitation facilities in the country) considered him suicidal. Finally, Tom Grant and Rosemary Carroll had an impassioned conversation in which she exclaimed, "He wasn't suicidal, Tom. Kurt wasn't suicidal!" For more documented quotes from friends and family close to Kurt in the final weeks, please read Kurt Was Not Suicidal by Frances Barnett
Courtesy of http://www.justiceforkurt.com
now, I have read some stuff about Kurt really being murdered and all but I really can't say. to me it reminds me of the speculations of whether or not Marilyn Monroe killed herself. these things get more difficult as time passes.
well, I'd say that at least to some people it's easier to say that Courtney killed Kurt and all that cause they just don't want to admit that someone they admire so much could ever do anything like that. that someone who was like a god to them could actually kill himself and abandon all other people.
I really don't know. who does? thinking about things like this make me sad. I have tremendous respect for Kurt as at least an artist and I do think he was pretty smart. but even the smartest people make dumb decitions. :(
anyone who's on (hard)drugs and has kids or is pregnant is a irresponsible fucking selfish asshole. no matter how hard times are to go through a kid won't make it easier in those times. no matter how much you clean up, if there was drugs during pregnancy in your system male or female you really should get your creation tools tied up/cut off whatever. look at this poor girl (Frances Bean) no dad and a mom whom is a psycho nutcase. ive seen this kinda shit up close with my ex and dont wish that on any child what so ever.
but yeah it is the easy way out, just a very fucking selfish easy way
~You laugh because I am different, I laugh because you are all the fucking same -?~
~Education is the most powerfull weapon you can use to change the world - Nelson Mandela~
I agree.
I think he didnt think about his daughter when he did that, he was definately selfish which makes me question what he really felt for his daughter, was his unhappiness with the world so much bigger than the the love for his daughter?
I feel bad for his kid, and I wouldnt be surprised if that kid has some kinda of issues first because of her fucked up family and second because her mom did heroine while she was pregnant so you know there has got to be something wrong with that kid, she cant be a normal kid.
I have always been a smoker though when I got pregnant (each of the 3 times) I stopped smoking cigarrettes and stopped smoking pot just because it wasnt only my body anymore...
Doing drugs while you are pregnant is not cool.
(Im calling your phone! charge it! xo)
i do believe a man named john frusciante got through his problems and came back with full force on californication with the peppers. countless other drug using musicians have been able to come back. oh well, now i'm just ranting.
I don't hate him for it either. That is not my place.
I had a life and he left it. I guess he didn't do so because he was out of bread that day. He had troubles you can see that in his lyrics, what ever they mean, I always had the feeling they were really sad. He's an ass for leaving his little girl fatherless, but other then that it doesn't bother me. It is so easy to say he took the easy way out. I can't believe noone here has never thought about doing the same as he did. The argument that I should stand my suffering for the joy of my famaly and friends has never done much for me. I'm alive and even though I wish to share that with others, that doesn't obligant me to stay alive. You could turn that argument around just as easely if I would want to kill myself that means my loved ones didn't make it worth while for me to hang around. Now I don't seriously believe that but if you aply that argument for a reason not to kill yourself then the opposite is true as well.
You’re on the outside, never bound by such a spell.
Together in the darkness, alone in the light.
I took it upon me to be yours, Timmy,
I’ll lead your angels and demons at play tonight......»
Sure...he may have taken a cowardly way out, but I don't know if anyone of us can really judge a person who does such a thing. Its a fine line, and many people cross it. As for leaving his daughter behind, its sad, but no worse than millions of other dead beat dads out there who run away from their responsibilities. To me, its a tragedy that Kurt killed himself, and probably a mistake, but I don't judge the man based on this incident.
Excerpt from what I posted: Not one of the therapists who spoke with Cobain just a few days before his death at the Exodus Treatment Center (one of the most renowned drug rehabilitation facilities in the country) considered him suicidal.
Kurt was going in and out of a rehab clinic and getting professional help.
Also take a look at the Chili Peppers AOL sessions footage, and you night think John is back on the heroin, he dosen't look to healthy thats for sure.
i've been saying the same thing every year when "tribute" threads are started for kurt. the guy made some great music, but horrible decisions.
and for the record, i don't think he was murdered. he's been dead over 10 years now. don't you think the cops would have found something?
~Michael Bolton
The cops wouldn't have found something because none of them are looking the case isnt open, but what would you make of this these are facts that the police have simply ignored:
THREE TIMES A LETHAL DOSE OF HEROIN?
Kurt apparently had 3 times the lethal 225 mgs dose of heroin (1.52 mgs per liter) in his blood system and intravenous puncture marks in both arms. Medical experts will tell you that such an amount, when injected directly into the bloodstream will leave you incapacitated and cause you to lapse into a coma within seconds, if not kill you instantly before the needle can even be removed from your arm. It's common for deaths of heroin overdoses to be found with the needle still sticking out of the arm. That's how quickly one lethal dose can kill a person, let alone three.
It's hard to believe that Cobain injected himself with an insane triple lethal dose of heroin, pulled the needle out of his arm, carefully put away that needle and the heroin paraphernalia neatly back into a cigar box a few feet away, rolled down and button his sleeves, then picked up a Remington 20-gauge shotgun , placed it in his mouth and discharged it. There does not seem to be another case in history in which anything close to this has ever occurred and many researchers feel it is simply impossible.
The drug Diazepam (Valium), was also found in Cobain's blood system. A drug that is known to aggravate heroin, and makes an overdose that much worse. The question remains as to why Cobain would shoot himself after taking a triple lethal dose, which clearly would have been more than enough to cause death instantly. A triple overdose, followed by shooting yourself not only doesn't make sense, but is impossible according to the medical experts.
Canadian Chemist Roger Lewis read the Cobain autopsy report. Knowing that drug related "suicides" are often a staged cover up for a murder, he studied 98 similar deaths and their pathology, criminology and forensic tests. His research is titled "Dead Men Don't Pull Triggers", and it was published in Opinion Magazine. An online version is also available and is a must-read for anyone who wants to intelligently argue that Cobain was murdered. To be fair, there is a rebuttal to Lewis' findings, which has also been posted on the web, as well as Lewis' rebuttal to the first one. Links to that debate are available in the internet coverage section of this site.
NO FINGERPRINTS?
According to the police report, there were no "legible" fingerprints on the shotgun (which some sources say indicate the gun had been wiped or cleaned), none on the pen found with the "suicide" note, or the box of shotgun shells found beside Kurt. How can you write a note, load up a shotgun with 3 shells, and shoot yourself without leaving any fingerprints on anything? Also, his head was nowhere near "blown off", as mistakenly reported by the press. It was fully intact and not as gruesome as people close to the situation had made it out to be to the media and friends. The Remington Model 11 shotgun is a very light shotgun that dealers recommend for home protection, because the shot won't penetrate walls and endanger those on the other side.
Sgt. Cameron admitted 2 years later that there were no markings on Kurt's hands indicating he had fired the weapon. "Yeah, there weren't any marks on his hands...Some rookie must've put that line in the police report." he said when speaking about the mistake in the police report. Tom Grant says: "I can say with confidence that there were no marks on Cobain's hands that would indicate he fired this weapon. I've had the police reports analyzed by other homicide detectives and criminalists. No one can figure out what these "marks" could have been. I can't explain further at this time, but I can tell you the authorities will never claim the marks were GS residue or soot. Some of the additional evidence I've obtained regarding these so-called "marks" cannot be disclosed until the case is reopened. If the Seattle authorities ever care to describe the "marks" in detail, I'll come forward with additional evidence that will prove those so--called "marks" did not really exist."
Since things were also so neatly put away at the scene and there were no fingerprints on key objects, this seems to indicate someone "swept" it before Cobain's body was discovered. He clearly was not alone in that greenhouse.
courtney needs to burn in hell!!!!!!!!
the case isn't open because they closed it. are you seriously saying that the cops are covering something up? another conspiracy? christ, everything is a conspiracy in these forums. i'm not going to even bother addressing everything else that was in your post. send it to the police department that closed the case and ask them to explain it.
~Michael Bolton
Some of what is in my post is from the actual police report, this is what the police have already said and ignored, coincidently do you work for the SPD you seem to have the same attitude?
What I have posted are solid facts, your argument is I'll just ignore them and not consider them, to me that says its you taking the easy way out, as apparently the police have.