my latest Nirvana rant.....just venting....

Skitch Patterson

i am by no means a huge nirvana fan... but sometimes music and bands are more than just their musical ability... its their ability to reach people through a vibe or emotion... and nirvana is one of those bands to me, and yes, timing was a part of it, but the overriding "talent" was the pain you could hear in his voice- the raw emotion behind his songs.

reeferchief

facepollution wrote:

I think you are missing the point, when Nirvana signed to Geffen, nobody expected them to sell that many records, but Nevermind happened to be a very accessible rock album that connected with a lot of people. To say he wasn't a good songwriter is just plain wrong, bad songwriters don't sell records period. Nickelback in my view are a shit band, but there is no doubting they can write catchy pop-rock songs that sell records, and whether you like it or not, that is a talent of sorts.

And those lyrics you quoted - do I need to quote the lyrics of something like Bugs to make my point?

Kurt was a drug addict for two reasons, one because he was self-medicating an agonising stomach condition, and secondly because he was clinically depressed. When you actually bother to look at Kurt's upbringing and the kind of personality that was created from that upbringing, it was no surprise that he killed himself.

Kurt also had ADHD and saw Heroin as a replacement to the ritolin he used to be prescribed for.

facepollution

reeferchief wrote:

Kurt also had ADHD and saw Heroin as a replacement to the ritolin he used to be prescribed for.

I never heard that one, but I wouldn't doubt that. His whole story was very tragic, as is Courtney Love's, far more so than most people realise, which is why I always find myself defending them both. It troubles me how little compassion some people have.

reeferchief

facepollution wrote:

I never heard that one, but I wouldn't doubt that. His whole story was very tragic, as is Courtney Love's, far more so than most people realise, which is why I always find myself defending them both. It troubles me how little compassion some people have.

i think it was in the heavier than hell book where i read it both Kurt and Courtney had been prescribed ritolin growing up.

NCBRI

reeferchief wrote:

i think it was in the heavier than hell book where i read it both Kurt and Courtney had been prescribed ritolin growing up.

Heavier Than Heaven is the book and it is a very good one. Nirvana, I think, was a very good band. They weren't as good as the hype and the legend, but then again, the most popular music isnt always the best thing out there. Their impact was huge and their music was good even if it was overated.

Collin

Nirvana is very often overrated, but often underrated too.

Yes, their music was pretty simple, but it doesn't need to be complex to be good. I think Kurt Cobain, was a good singer and songwriter and Dave Grohl is a great drummer...

As for the Courtney Love issue, you can never really know what happened, she might be a bitch, but don't be too quick to judge. The death of a loved one isn't easy to deal with, can you imagine your loved one commits suicide, there you are, all alone, you have a daughter you have to raise on your own, and everywhere you go people keep asking you, confronting you with your loved one's death...

And as for the drug addiction, it saddens me that some people think he was just a pathetic drug addict.

reeferchief

NCBRI wrote:

Heavier Than Heaven is the book and it is a very good one. Nirvana, I think, was a very good band. They weren't as good as the hype and the legend, but then again, the most popular music isnt always the best thing out there. Their impact was huge and their music was good even if it was overated.

yeah Heaven even, that and hell are so close i always get muddled up since seeing Little Nicky.:)

Binaural

reeferchief wrote:

Yes thats in your opinion please remember to add, in the thoughts of many there music was brilliant and like you there are many that think it wasn't so good, but please dont try and cast judgement as if your the be all and end all.
explain to me how they didn't give the music world anything? they made three albums plus many other songs they have influenced hundreds of bands since, they have inspired many artists including Pearl Jam to cover them, i would absolutley love for you to get the opportunity to put that point across to almost any musician from seattle or with any credibility in the industry and see there reaction to you, it would be highly entertaining.

One) I never at any point, made a comment on my musical ability or wether or not I am more talented or have the potential of influencing more people than Nirvana. Your point was nothing more than childish name calling, completely unnessacery.

Two) Lyricaly, there was no fluency in the Cobains writings and he failed to accurately express himself. The imagery was all over the place and had almost no consistency. Therefore, technicaly, they were poor. If you like them then hey, thats fine, each to their own.

Three) As for the music, I concede that my comments were biased and opinionated.




PEACE

direwolf74

facepollution wrote:

I would be interested to know if all the Nirvana bashers were old enough to remember the band when they were still about? Their impact at the time was far greater than a lot of people seem to think it was. I think a lot of people look back in hindsight and judge the band on what happened to Kurt and the complexity (or lack of) in their music. People would do well to remember that before Nirvana made it into the mainstream, all the other big mainstream rock bands were singing about doing drugs and getting laid. Through Nirvana making it big, doors were opened for more thoughtful and intelligent artists to be heard. So although they might not have been the first or best band of their genre, Nevermind clearly had the right ingredients to make a huge statement.

To say Kurt was not tallented is ridiculous, take a listen to the song Polly - written about a real life story of a woman who was abducted, raped and tortured, Kurt decided to sing the song from the rapist's point of view, something most songwriters wouldn't even contemplate.

Personally, I haven't listened to Nirvana in years, when I do hear them on the radio or see a video on tv, it leaves me with a really bittersweet feeling, Kurt's death was like a loss of innocence kind of thing for me a huge wake -up call, and I'm pretty sure that's how a lot of the people who were into the scene at the time feel.

Well said.

Thumbing My Way

facepollution wrote:

Nickelback in my view are a shit band, but there is no doubting they can write catchy pop-rock songs that sell records, and whether you like it or not, that is a talent of sorts.

I'll get shit on for this, but I think that Nickelback is more talented than Nirvana.

Side Note:

Dave Grohl was the most talented in that band and IMO is one of the most talented men in music today.

He can sing like a champ, he's unreal on the drums, and he rocks on the guitar, and lyrically, The Foos blow Nirvana away.

facepollution

Thumbing My Way wrote:

I'll get shit on for this, but I think that Nickelback is more talented than Nirvana.

Side Note:

Dave Grohl was the most talented in that band and IMO is one of the most talented men in music today.

He can sing like a champ, he's unreal on the drums, and he rocks on the guitar, and lyrically, The Foos blow Nirvana away.

HA HA, you're crazy!!!!!!

Dave is a great musician, and very talented but comparing Nirvana and Foos isn't really fair cause Kurt's songwriting was lyrically far darker than anything Dave has written, so it's entirely down to personal preference. It's like comparing Hendrix and Clapton and saying one is better than the other - each has/had their own individual style and it's down to the listener to decide what they prefer.

reeferchief

Binaural wrote:

One) I never at any point, made a comment on my musical ability or wether or not I am more talented or have the potential of influencing more people than Nirvana. Your point was nothing more than childish name calling, completely unnessacery.

One) I never at any point said your insinuations were based on your musical ability, i also never called you a name at any point, my post was completley necassery what i replied to was:

Binaural wrote:

they didn't give the music world anything

by saying this you made possibly one of the most retarded comments i have witnessed, the band finished with the death of their singer in 1994, yet almost twelve years later your arguing that they didn't give the music world anything, if that was the case you wouldn't be disscusing them on a message board.

Binaural wrote:

Two) Lyricaly, there was no fluency in the Cobains writings and he failed to accurately express himself.

Two) there was only one Cobain, and if your talking about some other Cobains i haven't heard of then fair enough, but Kurt Cobain expressed himself well enough for millions of people to understand him, he expressed himself quite clearly.

Binaural wrote:

Three) As for the music, I concede that my comments were biased and opinionated.

yes they were, your original post was a statement as if based on fact when it was entirely your own opinion, which was why i replied as i did.


PEACE

dCowboyPJ

Thumbing My Way wrote:

I'll get shit on for this, but I think that Nickelback is more talented than Nirvana.

Side Note:

Dave Grohl was the most talented in that band and IMO is one of the most talented men in music today.

He can sing like a champ, he's unreal on the drums, and he rocks on the guitar, and lyrically, The Foos blow Nirvana away.

I couldn't agree more with everything you said.

Nice post.

darthvedder88

Now it's time for the post of all posts....

For all those who praise Nirvana like they're gods of some sorts, do yourself a favor...

Go buy some Alice in Chains records and listen to Layne Staley blow Kurt Cobain out of the fucking water!!!!

DriftingByTheStorm

Thumbing My Way wrote:

I'll get shit on for this, but I think that Nickelback is more talented than Nirvana.

Side Note:

Dave Grohl was the most talented in that band and IMO is one of the most talented men in music today.

He can sing like a champ, he's unreal on the drums, and he rocks on the guitar, and lyrically, The Foos blow Nirvana away.

what is wrong with the world today?

http://www.youtube.com/?v=5brY-ivFRBw

kurt says here that he thought the nirvana backlash had already happened ... and that was in '93 ... poor man wouldn't realize that an entire generation would denounce his worth and latch on to shit bands like nickleback and emo instead.

unfuckingbelievable.

darthvedder88 wrote:

Now it's time for the post of all posts....

For all those who praise Nirvana like they're gods of some sorts, do yourself a favor...

Go buy some Alice in Chains records and listen to Layne Staley blow Kurt Cobain out of the fucking water!!!!

and to this i can only ask why one can't **love** both artists ... AIC and Nirvana were both a-fuckin-mazing ... to shit on one in favor of the other is just savage cannablism, imho. and it isn't like their singers' ultimate ends were radicaly different. both were troubled, not everyone is perfect. sure it was "selfish" of them ... how altruistic are most of us?

it makes me sad that kurt takes so much shit. he made beautiful music, and to criticise his lyrics is to miss the point.

kurt wrote lyrics, often times, based on the sounds and connotations associated with the word pairings ...

you should check out the "classic albums series" "making of nevermind" ... it's great ... like it or not, kurt was a genius. self defeating, and confused? of course.
but that's what people related to ... maybe if your mom is a real estate agent who drives a land cruiser, and your dad is a successful trial lawyer and you have 3 5th gen ipods and a gianormous flatscreen tv ... maybe it doens't register ...

grr.
sorry ... i always favored PJ to Nirvana by a far margin ... but looking back i get really sentimental ...



and just to bring back the mood.
some funny shit that makes me smile.
ahh, the way we were.

instant quotables "Pedal the ass that god gave you. Buy nitrous!"
http://www.youtube.com/?v=TkIq-tBV22U

Kraven

darthvedder88 wrote:

Now it's time for the post of all posts....

For all those who praise Nirvana like they're gods of some sorts, do yourself a favor...

Go buy some Alice in Chains records and listen to Layne Staley blow Kurt Cobain out of the fucking water!!!!

If you are talking about lyrics, get a clue, Jerry Cantrell wrote 90% of the songs in that band. If you are talking about voice I'll agree Layne's is better. And no one ever said anything about Kurts voice being great...As far as the two bands go I love Dirt but Facelift and the self titled don't do all that much for me... As far as Nirvana goes I enjoy all of their releases, Bleach through In Utero.

Binaural, how can say Kurt Cobain did not express himself lyrically?? Listen to Come As You Are, Something in the Way, Heart Shaped Box, listen to Pennyroyal Tea, listen to all of fucking In Utero. How do his lyrics not flow? And who died and made you the lyrical Nazi of the music world?

Igottago

All this Nirvana backlash just cracks me up. If you don't like them fine, but you can't deny their influence and impact on music. Kurt Cobain had the "it" factor which made him one of the most compelling artists of our time. And I'm not talking about being a celebrity, i'm talking about people realizing that this was a special artist, like the Lennon's, Dylan's, Marley's of the world. His music connected with a lot of people. The world is still waiting for the next Nirvana. If you want to rip Kurt Cobain for being a drug addict and committing suicide, you should rip every other important artisit in history, most of whom wrestled with some demons. No one ever comes here ripping Jimi Hendrix for choking on his own vomit...or Jim Morrisson for becoming an overinflated drunken idiot. Nirvana's music was original, Nirvana clones cannot come close to the fury or passion that was expressed in Nirvana's music. There is still no one who sounds like them, even though their music is so simple and shitty, according to some. Kurt Cobain was a truly one of a kind individual. No one says you have to like Nirvana, but they certainly are deserving of their place in rock history.

Kraven

Igottago wrote:

All this Nirvana backlash just cracks me up. If you don't like them fine, but you can't deny their influence and impact on music. Kurt Cobain had the "it" factor which made him one of the most compelling artists of our time. And I'm not talking about being a celebrity, i'm talking about people realizing that this was a special artist, like the Lennon's, Dylan's, Marley's of the world. His music connected with a lot of people. The world is still waiting for the next Nirvana. If you want to rip Kurt Cobain for being a drug addict and committing suicide, you should rip every other important artisit in history, most of whom wrestled with some demons. No one ever comes here ripping Jimi Hendrix for choking on his own vomit...or Jim Morrisson for becoming an overinflated drunken idiot. Nirvana's music was original, Nirvana clones cannot come close to the fury or passion that was expressed in Nirvana's music. There is still no one who sounds like them, even though their music is so simple and shitty, according to some. Kurt Cobain was a truly one of a kind individual. No one says you have to like Nirvana, but they certainly are deserving of their place in rock history.

Exactly...Perfectly stated, thank you

wolfbear

Igottago wrote:

All this Nirvana backlash just cracks me up. If you don't like them fine, but you can't deny their influence and impact on music. Kurt Cobain had the "it" factor which made him one of the most compelling artists of our time. And I'm not talking about being a celebrity, i'm talking about people realizing that this was a special artist, like the Lennon's, Dylan's, Marley's of the world. His music connected with a lot of people. The world is still waiting for the next Nirvana. If you want to rip Kurt Cobain for being a drug addict and committing suicide, you should rip every other important artisit in history, most of whom wrestled with some demons. No one ever comes here ripping Jimi Hendrix for choking on his own vomit...or Jim Morrisson for becoming an overinflated drunken idiot. Nirvana's music was original, Nirvana clones cannot come close to the fury or passion that was expressed in Nirvana's music. There is still no one who sounds like them, even though their music is so simple and shitty, according to some. Kurt Cobain was a truly one of a kind individual. No one says you have to like Nirvana, but they certainly are deserving of their place in rock history.

I third it! They were such a breath of fresh air. I am eagerly awaiting the next!

OutOfBreath

Why is it always a contest of who is "better" than who? Different bands usually have different things going for them.

I tend to latch on to music that I feel conveys an emotion in the rawest possible sense. Nirvana does this. Not by blistering guitar solos, or Shakespeare-rivalling witty lyrics, but through the feel of authenticity and sincerity, not to mention the raw, emotional voice of Kurt. (especially on more acoustic numbers)

Nirvana also turned into a huge hype-machine, so of course to many, it may seem a whole lot of hubbubb about nothing. But that is not the important part, although it is also a factor.

The thing is not that Nirvana necessarily invented gun powder with their music, but they represented a movement in rock music back towards simplicity and the basics. A song could be good even without a 2 minute twin guitar solo. (although that can be enjoyable in itself)

Was Nirvana a good band? It depends on your taste and preferences, but I will say they definitely was. Nothing spectacular in pure craftsmanship, but showing how good it can be using simple ingredients. And of course, the raw emotion underlying the songs, and the ability to make good hooks and riffs.

Was Nirvana an influential band? Noone can doubt that. Nirvana came to spearhead the "back to basics" movement, and the sense that anyone can pick up a guitar and make something good out of it. Nirvana has spawned a lot of similar bands, and their influence was significant. they were not alone in this movement, but they became the spearhead for it.

And finally, noone can dis all apologies. Sorry. Maybe the lyrics arent that good, maybe the music is simple, but for god's sakes, listen with your heart. That song has more emotion in it than other bands are capable of putting into an entire career. And that is what music is all about to me. Emotion. I'd rather have 3 chords in succession with heart, than blistering guitar playing that's not really going anywhere.

But, to each their own, I guess.

Peace
Dan