Rise Against

Gary Carter

facepollution wrote:

dude they're all pushing 35 so it's natural that they are writing about different things, and pretty much EVERYONE is more into politics now after 9/11, the 'war on terror', and the general way Bush and co are fucking with the world.

right it is natural but they have never showed a ounce of politicls in them ever, thats my main problem. why now when everyone hates bush, why didnt they make poilitcal music all along

facepollution wrote:

I think a lot of people can't see past the way Green Day's music and image has been manipulated by the media and companies that want to trade off it, which isn't entirely their fault.

it is there fault, look at dookie and how much back-lash they got from real punk rock bands up in the sf area.they wanted to cash in the big check and to me if u say your punk rock and then sign with a major company thats not punk rock thats selling out. there first 2 cds are awsome. i love american idiot, i think its a great cd, but it was marketed to 14-16 who shop at hot topic and dont have a clue bout politicls

Dick Jones

I heard a song last night, a video actually, and I turned it off.

facepollution

metsfan531941 wrote:

right it is natural but they have never showed a ounce of politicls in them ever, thats my main problem. why now when everyone hates bush, why didnt they make poilitcal music all along

it is there fault, look at dookie and how much back-lash they got from real punk rock bands up in the sf area.they wanted to cash in the big check and to me if u say your punk rock and then sign with a major company thats not punk rock thats selling out. there first 2 cds are awsome. i love american idiot, i think its a great cd, but it was marketed to 14-16 who shop at hot topic and dont have a clue bout politicls

Mate your argument lost seriously credibility when you uttered the dreaded words 'selling out'. You're only 'selling out' if you do something that goes against your own beliefs, fuck punk purists, ther're as dumb as Bush and co - punk is standing up for your beliefs, period. All the things you are saying about AI and how it was marketed came AFTER they recorded the music on it. Seriously I hate the way people bash young kids for being into popular rock, of course you'll get the scene kids who are into whatever's popular, just as there were people like that back in the early 90's with PJ, AIC etc. BUT there are also people who appreciate the music for what it is. Only like two songs on the album address politics overtly anyway, a song like Jesus of Suburbia is basically a social commentary about disaffected youth, just the same as a song like She was from Dookie.

Why not write about politics anyway? Social commentary has never been that far from the band (She, Minority) and since 9/11 plenty of bands' music has been a reaction to those things - just because Green Day seemed like less likely candidates to write about those things, doesn't mean they are singing about things they don't understand or haven't researched - and like I said before, you can't sing about failed relationships and masturbation forever. Hell, I wasn't that interested in politics before 9/11, but the fall-out from that has been huge and it's now kind of unavoidable.

Pearl Jam and toast

facepollution wrote:

Mate your argument lost seriously credibility when you uttered the dreaded words 'selling out'. You're only 'selling out' if you do something that goes against your own beliefs, fuck punk purists, ther're as dumb as Bush and co - punk is standing up for your beliefs, period. All the things you are saying about AI and how it was marketed came AFTER they recorded the music on it. Seriously I hate the way people bash young kids for being into popular rock, of course you'll get the scene kids who are into whatever's popular, just as there were people like that back in the early 90's with PJ, AIC etc. BUT there are also people who appreciate the music for what it is. Only like two songs on the album address politics overtly anyway, a song like Jesus of Suburbia is basically a social commentary about disaffected youth, just the same as a song like She was from Dookie.

Why not write about politics anyway? Social commentary has never been that far from the band (She, Minority) and since 9/11 plenty of bands' music has been a reaction to those things - just because Green Day seemed like less likely candidates to write about those things, doesn't mean they are singing about things they don't understand or haven't researched - and like I said before, you can't sing about failed relationships and masturbation forever. Hell, I wasn't that interested in politics before 9/11, but the fall-out from that has been huge and it's now kind of unavoidable.

Now I'm all for disbanning the use of the term "selling out"... or at least I was.. until Green Day defined it to the teeth.

boroff89

metsfan531941 wrote:

exactly.i respect rise against alot more then gd cause rise against havent made a fake political cd at all.they always have been political

Have you actually read Green Day lyrics before American Idiot? They have always been socially conscious. Welcome to Paradise is a great example off of Dookie. Minority is a more recent example. That American Idiot had a stronger political bent should hardly have been surprising, and I am quite sure that their feelings and their lyrics are sincere. However, as I pointed out when American Idiot came out and we were discussing it here, there are really only a couple of songs on American Idiot that are "political" in the way people are speaking of here. Holiday. American Idiot. The rest of the songs deal far more with the ills of our society and the sense of confusion felt by so many following the events of 9/11. It's a great fucking album, and if it inspired teens to actually give a shit about the world, all the better. I am sure if somebody asked Tim from Rise Against about Green Day, he'd say the same thing.

Pearl Jam and toast

boroff89 wrote:

Have you actually read Green Day lyrics before American Idiot? They have always been socially conscious. Welcome to Paradise is a great example off of Dookie. Minority is a more recent example. That American Idiot had a stronger political bent should hardly have been surprising, and I am quite sure that their feelings and their lyrics are sincere. However, as I pointed out when American Idiot came out and we were discussing it here, there are really only a couple of songs on American Idiot that are "political" in the way people are speaking of here. Holiday. American Idiot. The rest of the songs deal far more with the ills of our society and the sense of confusion felt by so many following the events of 9/11. It's a great fucking album, and if it inspired teens to actually give a shit about the world, all the better. I am sure if somebody asked Tim from Rise Against about Green Day, he'd say the same thing.

Actually I'd have to agree with this. Even the part about it being a good album.

But seriously, they sold themselves BIG TIME. I can't respect them.

boroff89

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

Actually I'd have to agree with this. Even the part about it being a good album.

But seriously, they sold themselves BIG TIME. I can't respect them.

I understand. As much as I love American Idiot, I got tired of it, and the overcommercialization of it started detracting from its message. What really got to me was Wake Me Up When September Ends being done as an anti-war video when Billie Joe had said the song was inspired by the death of his father.

Gary Carter

boroff89 wrote:

Have you actually read Green Day lyrics before American Idiot? They have always been socially conscious. Welcome to Paradise is a great example off of Dookie. Minority is a more recent example. That American Idiot had a stronger political bent should hardly have been surprising, and I am quite sure that their feelings and their lyrics are sincere. However, as I pointed out when American Idiot came out and we were discussing it here, there are really only a couple of songs on American Idiot that are "political" in the way people are speaking of here. Holiday. American Idiot. The rest of the songs deal far more with the ills of our society and the sense of confusion felt by so many following the events of 9/11. It's a great fucking album, and if it inspired teens to actually give a shit about the world, all the better. I am sure if somebody asked Tim from Rise Against about Green Day, he'd say the same thing.

yes i have actually, i saw the band when they were on the warped tour when they werent popular. welcome to pardise to me is bout the underworld that is the punk scene and how its some people pardise, but thats neither here or there.i respect billy joe as singer and songwriter alot more then other people in the biz today. i just am turned off by the whole why be anti-war now, why didnt they write anti-war songs back in the 90s or bash bill in the 90s. why do they feel need to jump on the bash bush bandwagon.right it did inspired teens to give a shit, but to give a shit bout there views. i like american idiot alot

Gary Carter

facepollution wrote:

Mate your argument lost seriously credibility when you uttered the dreaded words 'selling out'. You're only 'selling out' if you do something that goes against your own beliefs, fuck punk purists, ther're as dumb as Bush and co - punk is standing up for your beliefs, period.

no i didnt look at there first 2 cds, no one knew who the fuck they were. then comes along a big record company and offers them a contract and BAM 10 million cds, there fucking rich THATS SELLING OUT.yeah and greenday did go against there own beliefs by siging that big deal.no dont fuck the punk purist, because if u say your punk that believe in what punk bands like fugazi and nofx and pennywise believe in.

facepollution

metsfan531941 wrote:

no i didnt look at there first 2 cds, no one knew who the fuck they were. then comes along a big record company and offers them a contract and BAM 10 million cds, there fucking rich THATS SELLING OUT.yeah and greenday did go against there own beliefs by siging that big deal.no dont fuck the punk purist, because if u say your punk that believe in what punk bands like fugazi and nofx and pennywise believe in.

They aren't the punk purists. The punk purists are the people who think that there is some set mould for the term 'punk' - there isn't, it's about standing up for your beliefs. I don't for a second think signing to a major label is selling out. Unless that major label has any bearing on the creative imput of their music then there is nothing wrong with it. All it means is that they have better promotion, distribution, money for better producers etc. Many bands end up breaking up because they slum it on tiny indie labels and ultimately can't make a living out of it. To then be offered a major label deal means you can actually stay as a band. I have a friend in a band, he's been playing for years now, and for ages he lived by the whole 'major labels suck' rule, but five years of doing a shitty day job on top of touring etc, has left him begging for a major label contract. Anyway how would YOU know if GD went against their own beliefs?!

Pearl Jam and toast

metsfan531941 wrote:

no i didnt look at there first 2 cds, no one knew who the fuck they were. then comes along a big record company and offers them a contract and BAM 10 million cds, there fucking rich THATS SELLING OUT.yeah and greenday did go against there own beliefs by siging that big deal.no dont fuck the punk purist, because if u say your punk that believe in what punk bands like fugazi and nofx and pennywise believe in.

I don't think that's selling out at all. that's taking advantage of an opportunity to make money. The selling out was when they completley changed their image to market themselves to the trendy Fuse crowd.

A Surprise Left

where is crazy marge? LOL

facepollution

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

I don't think that's selling out at all. that's taking advantage of an opportunity to make money. The selling out was when they completley changed their image to market themselves to the trendy Fuse crowd.

They were wearing shirts and ties for years before everybody else caught on and copied them.

sleeplikeadog

Green Day, to me, are some of the hugest sellouts ever. I think they've tricked many kids into thinking that they're a legitimate punk band. I'm definately not a punk "purist", but come on. Calling a band like Against Me sellouts for signing to Sire records is fucked up, not these guys. I have some of the same problems with them that other people do. They were never political before, and they have sold themselves way too hard on this last record. Their songs are on TV commercials, video games(madden and I'm sure others), Mtv, Fuse, they sell their posters at Wal-Mart for fucks sake. GD are horrible, and to me are some of the biggest fakes ever.

As for Rise Against, they're ok. At least they still have their dignity.

boroff89

A Surprise Left wrote:

where is crazy marge? LOL

I wondered the same thing. She always has my back on bands like Rise Against.

Pearl Jam and toast

facepollution wrote:

They were wearing shirts and ties for years before everybody else caught on and copied them.

So they were wearing what coincidentally was the exact image of the Fuse crowd, wore the exact trendy make up styles (dark eyeliner being a big one..), had about 72 total hours of Fuse and MTV specials within a month of the album release,.. all of that was before American Idiot?

I watched one of those specials back when the album was still big and remember thinking... "wow, every single one of them is a total fucking tool except Mike Dirnt". Seems like he's the only one who said "fuck you i'm gonna dress like I always did and I'm not putting on that fucking eyeliner". Though that was just this one show, he might be doing it too..

Ernie Vedder

How is this bands latest album, The Black Market ?

catefrances

Ernie Vedder said:

How is this bands latest album, The Black Market ?

its as youd expect if youre familiar with their previous work. zero visibility is my fave.