Has anyone read the book "LOVE & DEATH" (by Max Wallace and Ian Halpern)?? I think this book deals w/this very topic. I got it for Christmas last year, but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.
Just wondered if anyone here has read it. If so, what did you think of it? I do plan on reading it. I was just curious how credible these authors sounded to anyone who has read it.
Has anyone read the book "LOVE & DEATH" (by Max Wallace and Ian Halpern)?? I think this book deals w/this very topic. I got it for Christmas last year, but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet.
Just wondered if anyone here has read it. If so, what did you think of it? I do plan on reading it. I was just curious how credible these authors sounded to anyone who has read it.
Before reading that book, I would suggest reading "Who Killed Kurt Cobain?". It is kind of like a prequel and was written by the same authors of "Love & Death." I've read both and they were both interesting. After reading the books, I don't believe his death was merely a suicide, but I'm not 100% positive that Courtney Love was involved.
let's not forget his suicide note, people.........wait! i got it! he wrote the suicide note as a cover up because he was involved in his own murder! that way no one would ever suspect that he was murdered if he took the time to write a suicide note! wow, he really was a genius after all!
the only part of the 'suicide note' that even insinuated suicide was the last line or 2 which experts have said looks like different handwriting
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
out of curiosity, what were the reasons to no finger prints at all anywhere on the gun?
Just got done reading "Heavier Than Heaven", Charles Cross' biography of Cobain and Nirvana. According to his research and interviews, there were fingerprints lifted from the gun, just none were legible. Here's the excerpt from the book:
Police fingerprinted the body, and the prints matched those already on file from the domestic violence arrest. Though a later analysis of the shotgun concluded "four cards of lifted latent prints contain no legible prints," Hartshorne said the prints on the gun were not legible because the weapon had to be pried from Kurt's hand after rigor mortis had set in. "I know his fingerprints are on there, because he had it in his hand," Hartshorne explained.
Hartshorne refers to Dr. Nikolas Hartshorne, who performed Kurt Cobain's autopsy.
Just got done reading "Heavier Than Heaven", Charles Cross' biography of Cobain and Nirvana. According to his research and interviews, there were fingerprints lifted from the gun, just none were legible. Here's the excerpt from the book:
Hartshorne refers to Dr. Nikolas Hartshorne, who performed Kurt Cobain's autopsy.
This was the evidence I was referring to earlier in the thread.
Think about it people, if he had already attempted suicide in Rome, he was what you would consider a suicidal person. The reason he ultimately chose a shot gun was because it is far more final, plus he had a well established fascination with guns, many of which were confiscated from the house when COURTNEY phoned the police telling them Kurt had locked himself in the bathroom and was threatening to kill himself. Again why would she go to the effort of plotting a murder when he was often threatening suicide anyway?
Furthermore, Kurt's whereabouts weren't known by anyone including Courtney who was down in LA when Kurt went missing from the rehab centre. Therfore it would have been pretty difficult to plan a murder when the victim was out of contact.
Care to explain why, or are you just the sort of person who likes to leap to conclusions?
I don't think she did it herself but I do think she had something to do with it. I heard or read somewhere that he was considering divorce and without him she would have been nothing. (I think I heard it on the radio...a quotation from one of the other members of Nirvana.) But no one really knows for sure except Kurt, who can't tell us, and Courtney, who won't tell us.
"and he still gives his love, he just gives it away and the love he receives is the love that is saved,..."
I don't think she did it herself but I do think she had something to do with it. I heard or read somewhere that he was considering divorce and without him she would have been nothing. (I think I heard it on the radio...a quotation from one of the other members of Nirvana.) But no one really knows for sure except Kurt, who can't tell us, and Courtney, who won't tell us.
I think to say she would have had 'nothing' without him is a bit of a bold statement. Hole had a very solid fan base before Kurt died, and even a divorce would have brought a lot of attention to her music, and everyone knows publicity sells records whether it be good or bad. And if she was in it for the money, she would have gotten half of his money through a divorce settlement anyway.
Courtney was the one who instigated the 'tough love' session involving all of Kurt's friends and family, in an attempt to make him see how he was ruining himself, AGAIN not the actions of someone who wanted him dead. The way Kurt was using heroin towards the end, there was no need for anyone to kill him, he was killing himself already. Let's not forget HE checked himself out of rehab before he died, and if he wasn't prepared to get clean, he was inevitably going to head the same way as all junkies and that was to an early grave.
I can fully understand why people don't like Courtney Love, she's obnoxious, self-centred, a chronic attention seeker and many other things, but she is totally a product of her childhood, as we all are. To presume she must have had something to do with his death just because of her eccentric behaviour is not only retarded but completely ignorant.
And if she was in it for the money, she would have gotten half of his money through a divorce settlement anyway.
That's not true. Kurt and Courtney signed a prenup before their marriage on her insistence. She thought Hole was going to be a bigger and more profitable band than Nirvana, so in a divorce, Kurt would have kept all of his money. If she wanted his money, he had to die while they were in wedlock.
my fav theory always was that gavin rossdale killed kurt because he wanted to take his place...;)
no, i think it was suicide
i want to believe that it was murder because of frances bean, how can you kill yourself when you have a not even two years old daughter, but all this conspiracy theories are not really convincing
"now i've got room to spread my wings and my messages of love...yeah love was my drug but that's not what i died of"
"I don't wanna think, I wanna feel"
"Go then, there are other worlds than these!" - Jake Chambers
09/02/2005 Vancouver
09/23/2006 Berlin
06/21/2007 Düsseldorf
the note kurt left didn't sound like a suicide note.
-ok, the note we all heard and read was the letter he wrote to the fans to say goodbye, nothing more. but he also wrote letters to courtney and his daughter(which were probably more to the point of suicide).
someone used his credit card after he died.
-i doubt kurt was so protective of his credit card. he was pretty careless. kurt was a junkie and had junkie friends. he might have gave it to one of these friends of his or maybe someone stole it from him?? they were probably unaware that he was even dead when they used it, too busy getting high.
kurt had too much heoin in his system to pull the trigger.
-bullshit. kurt was a hardcore addict. ya, he might have died anyways with the amount he injected, but he probably didn't waste any time pulling the trigger. i think he injected, and then pulled the trigger within seconds. heroin takes a little time(not much, but longer than say 10 seconds) to go through the system. he shot himself before it could do him in.
courtney killed kurt for his money.
-again, bullshit. after being with him for a couple of years, she didn't need him anymore than he needed her. just having been with him put her in the spotlight because of his name. she was having an affair with billy corgan when she was married to him and then she dated edward norton for 3 years after kurt died. she's part of the scene. she doesn't have to kill anyone, she just has to bang them(pardon my pun). but seriously, there's a million ways for that cow to make money.
kurt wasn't suicidal.
-i'm not even going to touch this one.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
I don't think she did it herself but I do think she had something to do with it. I heard or read somewhere that he was considering divorce and without him she would have been nothing. (I think I heard it on the radio...a quotation from one of the other members of Nirvana.) But no one really knows for sure except Kurt, who can't tell us, and Courtney, who won't tell us.
i think he had even contacted his lawyer about the divorce and they had a prenup
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
as soon as you all can explain how one buys a shot gun, fully loads it, sticks it in their mouth and pulls the trigger w/o leaving a single print anywhere on the gun i'll answer your questions.
If thats the case, why was it declared suicide??
PEACE
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
I think people naturally like to question things that just don't seem to add up or seem mysterious to them. I don't think anyone is saying they know for sure what really happened, I think this was just an attempt at discussing some of the evidence/questions surrounding the case to see what others might think. I see no need in being condescending and overly dismissive over a simple invitation to discuss something. If you feel everything is so cut and dry about the case then try replying with a rebuttal stating why you think so and what makes you think that way or at least some sort of explaination for the questions being posed.
I simply find it strange that with all this 'evidence' it was declared suicide. So either the 'evidence' for it being a urder is non-exstant or the Police Department handling it performed the most piss poor investigation in recent media history. I think that some people just can't handle the fact that he was fucked up, he was having problems, so they try to explain his suicide in order to maintain his idolised image.
PEACE
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
That's not true. Kurt and Courtney signed a prenup before their marriage on her insistence. She thought Hole was going to be a bigger and more profitable band than Nirvana, so in a divorce, Kurt would have kept all of his money. If she wanted his money, he had to die while they were in wedlock.
OK, fair enough, but regardless of that, she didn't need his money. Live Through This would have sold well anyway, it's a decent record, and was very fitting for the time it was released. In addition, as somebody else pointed out, Courtney is a master at making connections. Some of her friends included Michael Stipe, Billy Corgan, Jeff Buckley, Scott Weiland, Drew Barrymore - she's always had enough connections that she could make money very easily.
I found it amusing that members of Nirvana wre saying things, because from tings I've heard and read they didn't really like her anyway. So they weren't going to be exactly singing her praises.
I think it's fair to say that Nirvana have become engraved in music history most probably because Kurt died anyway. Obviously this can't be proven because he's dead.
We all know Kurt attempted suicide before in Rome, which could either have been because he was suicidual and really wanted to die or it was a cry for help. Who knows?
Going with the murder theory, Courtney could have thought things through and decided that if she did kill him or someone for her, then people would assume it was suicide due to the overdose and she was home and dry. Let's face it, whether you hate or not, she's a very shrewd businesswoman and not as stupid as anything thinks.
Then there's the possibilty that he did indeed shoot himself because he was truely suicidual.
Everyone has their own views, opinions and reasons for what they believe happened that day. But let's face it, there are potentially only two people who really know.
20/04/06 ~ 23/08/06 ~ 09/09/06
14/09/06, 16/09/06, 17/09/06, 19/09/06, 20/09/06 ~ The Stone lookalike leg of the 2006 tour
18/06/07 - Amazing, just amazing
04/07/06 ~Proud to be part of the AIC Astoria Crew~
Comments
Just wondered if anyone here has read it. If so, what did you think of it? I do plan on reading it. I was just curious how credible these authors sounded to anyone who has read it.
the only part of the 'suicide note' that even insinuated suicide was the last line or 2 which experts have said looks like different handwriting
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Care to explain why, or are you just the sort of person who likes to leap to conclusions?
Hartshorne refers to Dr. Nikolas Hartshorne, who performed Kurt Cobain's autopsy.
This was the evidence I was referring to earlier in the thread.
Think about it people, if he had already attempted suicide in Rome, he was what you would consider a suicidal person. The reason he ultimately chose a shot gun was because it is far more final, plus he had a well established fascination with guns, many of which were confiscated from the house when COURTNEY phoned the police telling them Kurt had locked himself in the bathroom and was threatening to kill himself. Again why would she go to the effort of plotting a murder when he was often threatening suicide anyway?
Furthermore, Kurt's whereabouts weren't known by anyone including Courtney who was down in LA when Kurt went missing from the rehab centre. Therfore it would have been pretty difficult to plan a murder when the victim was out of contact.
I think to say she would have had 'nothing' without him is a bit of a bold statement. Hole had a very solid fan base before Kurt died, and even a divorce would have brought a lot of attention to her music, and everyone knows publicity sells records whether it be good or bad. And if she was in it for the money, she would have gotten half of his money through a divorce settlement anyway.
Courtney was the one who instigated the 'tough love' session involving all of Kurt's friends and family, in an attempt to make him see how he was ruining himself, AGAIN not the actions of someone who wanted him dead. The way Kurt was using heroin towards the end, there was no need for anyone to kill him, he was killing himself already. Let's not forget HE checked himself out of rehab before he died, and if he wasn't prepared to get clean, he was inevitably going to head the same way as all junkies and that was to an early grave.
I can fully understand why people don't like Courtney Love, she's obnoxious, self-centred, a chronic attention seeker and many other things, but she is totally a product of her childhood, as we all are. To presume she must have had something to do with his death just because of her eccentric behaviour is not only retarded but completely ignorant.
no, i think it was suicide
i want to believe that it was murder because of frances bean, how can you kill yourself when you have a not even two years old daughter, but all this conspiracy theories are not really convincing
"I don't wanna think, I wanna feel"
"Go then, there are other worlds than these!" - Jake Chambers
09/02/2005 Vancouver
09/23/2006 Berlin
06/21/2007 Düsseldorf
the note kurt left didn't sound like a suicide note.
-ok, the note we all heard and read was the letter he wrote to the fans to say goodbye, nothing more. but he also wrote letters to courtney and his daughter(which were probably more to the point of suicide).
someone used his credit card after he died.
-i doubt kurt was so protective of his credit card. he was pretty careless. kurt was a junkie and had junkie friends. he might have gave it to one of these friends of his or maybe someone stole it from him?? they were probably unaware that he was even dead when they used it, too busy getting high.
kurt had too much heoin in his system to pull the trigger.
-bullshit. kurt was a hardcore addict. ya, he might have died anyways with the amount he injected, but he probably didn't waste any time pulling the trigger. i think he injected, and then pulled the trigger within seconds. heroin takes a little time(not much, but longer than say 10 seconds) to go through the system. he shot himself before it could do him in.
courtney killed kurt for his money.
-again, bullshit. after being with him for a couple of years, she didn't need him anymore than he needed her. just having been with him put her in the spotlight because of his name. she was having an affair with billy corgan when she was married to him and then she dated edward norton for 3 years after kurt died. she's part of the scene. she doesn't have to kill anyone, she just has to bang them(pardon my pun). but seriously, there's a million ways for that cow to make money.
kurt wasn't suicidal.
-i'm not even going to touch this one.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
i think he had even contacted his lawyer about the divorce and they had a prenup
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
If thats the case, why was it declared suicide??
PEACE
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
I simply find it strange that with all this 'evidence' it was declared suicide. So either the 'evidence' for it being a urder is non-exstant or the Police Department handling it performed the most piss poor investigation in recent media history. I think that some people just can't handle the fact that he was fucked up, he was having problems, so they try to explain his suicide in order to maintain his idolised image.
PEACE
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
OK, fair enough, but regardless of that, she didn't need his money. Live Through This would have sold well anyway, it's a decent record, and was very fitting for the time it was released. In addition, as somebody else pointed out, Courtney is a master at making connections. Some of her friends included Michael Stipe, Billy Corgan, Jeff Buckley, Scott Weiland, Drew Barrymore - she's always had enough connections that she could make money very easily.
I think it's fair to say that Nirvana have become engraved in music history most probably because Kurt died anyway. Obviously this can't be proven because he's dead.
We all know Kurt attempted suicide before in Rome, which could either have been because he was suicidual and really wanted to die or it was a cry for help. Who knows?
Going with the murder theory, Courtney could have thought things through and decided that if she did kill him or someone for her, then people would assume it was suicide due to the overdose and she was home and dry. Let's face it, whether you hate or not, she's a very shrewd businesswoman and not as stupid as anything thinks.
Then there's the possibilty that he did indeed shoot himself because he was truely suicidual.
Everyone has their own views, opinions and reasons for what they believe happened that day. But let's face it, there are potentially only two people who really know.
14/09/06, 16/09/06, 17/09/06, 19/09/06, 20/09/06 ~ The Stone lookalike leg of the 2006 tour
18/06/07 - Amazing, just amazing
04/07/06 ~Proud to be part of the AIC Astoria Crew~
Rockin' out to Creadles
2003- MSG 1 & 2
2006- Irving Plaza, Albany, NJ 1 & 2
2008- MSG 1 & 2
2008- EV NYC 2