When Mike is soloing.......

Jam10

In Yellow Ledbetter, is he using the minor blues scale pattern #1? What key is the solo in? I am just really trying to understand what he is doing in this solo because I am working on this song. I've been playing guitar about a year and a half so sorry for the amature question. I find if you get in the guitar players head and understand what he is doing and thinking, it makes learning the song that much easier. In most of Mike solo's, does he use the blues scales most of the time?

Thanks

xtremehardy388

Jam10 wrote:

In Yellow Ledbetter, is he using the minor blues scale pattern #1? What key is the solo in? I am just really trying to understand what he is doing in this solo because I am working on this song. I've been playing guitar about a year and a half so sorry for the amature question. I find if you get in the guitar players head and understand what he is doing and thinking, it makes learning the song that much easier. In most of Mike solo's, does he use the blues scales most of the time?

Thanks

I know it's the same scale Jimi uses for Little Wing. Also, don't be sorry for questions. Without questions, we'd all be dumb.

scot88

E minor pentatonic.


EDIT.... look below. that's correct. i think little wing is in e minior though, right?

or not. who knows. i suck at theory.

StuffnJunk

C# minor pentatonic.....main position at 9th fret:

e - 9 , 12
B - 9 , 12
G - 9 , 11
D - 9 , 11
A - 9 , 11
E - 9 , 12


next little box:

e - 12 , 14
B - 12 , 14
G - 13
D
A
E

box before it:

e
B
G
D
A - 7 , 9
E - 7 , 9

you can get a whole lotta mileage outta this....mike sure did!

there are other places to play the scale, but these places are the real "meat and potatoes"

Jam10

I thought it was in C# minor, but how does that go if the song is in the key of E?

StuffnJunk

its a whole big long explanation, but basically since the song is in E major, you would solo using the E MAJOR scale, but no one solos using the major scale cuz it sounds "happy" and "lame"......you solo using minor scales, cuz they sound "sad" and "cool".....this is really a basic explanation!!!!

for each key, the "relative minor" scale that wolks with it is three steps below it (or three frets below it)

again, you can research this on your own, i am giving you a quick overview

here are the main keys most rock songs are in, the chords used, and where to solo (main position of pentatonic scale)


key of G - chords - G, C, D, Em........solo in E minor (12th fret)


key of A - chords - A, D, E, F#m.....solo in F#m (2nd or 14th fret)


key of C - chords - C, F, G, Am.....solo in A minor (5th fret)


key of D - chords - D, G, A, Bm....solo in B minor (7th fret)


key of E - chords - E, A, B, C#m.....solo in C#m (9th fret)


look up the Circle of Fifths and I, IV, V chord progressions to get more into this

ianvomsaal

- The solo is in C#Minor or E-Major - you can basically play whatever you want in those 2 (relative) key's and it all work fine - You can play:
E-Major/C#Minor Pentatonic (or Blues scale); E-Ionian; F#Dorian; G#Phrygian; A-Lydian; B-Mixolydian; C#Aeolian (aka Minor); D#Lydian).
Why, because the C#Minor scale is: C#-D#-E-F#-G#-A-B-C, and the E-Major Scale is: E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-D#-E.
NOTICE THAT THE NOTES IN BOTH OF THESE KEYS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME, THEY'RE JUST ARRANGED DIFFERENTLY - GET IT?

- I'd recommend that you don't learn any solo note for note because it'll only end up limiting you (you may be playing the same notes, but then again
"you're only playing the same notes." You'll NEVER have the same feeling or emotion behind the solo that Mike did, because lets face it, you're not
Mike (no-one is Mike but Mike) - and why just be a CD-player that only plays the CD when you can be yourself and eventually kick ass on a solo.

- You can always quote "key parts" of a solo, but then take it in a different direction and make it your own. That's where your real creativity shines
through & separates the real players from all the other uncreative copycats that only know the solo one way, and can't improv to save their ass.
Cheers . . .

- Ian

offaroundthebend

StuffnJunk wrote:

its a whole big long explanation, but basically since the song is in E major, you would solo using the E MAJOR scale, but no one solos using the major scale cuz it sounds "happy" and "lame"......you solo using minor scales, cuz they sound "sad" and "cool".....this is really a basic explanation!!!!

for each key, the "relative minor" scale that wolks with it is three steps below it (or three frets below it)

again, you can research this on your own, i am giving you a quick overview

here are the main keys most rock songs are in, the chords used, and where to solo (main position of pentatonic scale)


key of G - chords - G, C, D, Em........solo in E minor (12th fret)


key of A - chords - A, D, E, F#m.....solo in F#m (2nd or 14th fret)


key of C - chords - C, F, G, Am.....solo in A minor (5th fret)


key of D - chords - D, G, A, Bm....solo in B minor (7th fret)


key of E - chords - E, A, B, C#m.....solo in C#m (9th fret)


look up the Circle of Fifths and I, IV, V chord progressions to get more into this

great job with that...i could use a lesson from you...im having a hard time figuring out the key of some songs...especially pj songs...i know a good way to fin out is that its usually the 1st chord of the song...but sometimes i still cant figure out what that is...any other suggestions?

Anon

[quote="ianvomsaal
- I'd recommend that you don't learn any solo note for note because it'll only end up limiting you (you may be playing the same notes, but then again
"you're only playing the same notes." You'll [b"]NEVER[/b] have the same feeling or emotion behind the solo that Mike did, because lets face it, you're not
Mike (no-one is Mike but Mike) - and why just be a CD-player that only plays the CD when you can be yourself and eventually kick ass on a solo.

- You can always quote "key parts" of a solo, but then take it in a different direction and make it your own. That's where your real creativity shines
through & separates the real players from all the other uncreative copycats that only know the solo one way, and can't improv to save their ass.
Cheers . . .

- Ian[/quote]
I agree, dont play other peoples solos, learn the noticable licks and then improvise the rest. Playing a solo exactly as it is is almost boring after a few goes. I personally never play the same solo twice in a song. I've always been happier to 'suck out the guts' and improvise around that. Playing it note for note is, like you said, just popping in the CD.

Don't forget, most people who write the solos, improvise themselves. Jimmy Page barely ever did a solo note for note the way he originally wrote it.

xtremehardy388

Making the solo up is part of making someone elses song connect more to you. I think that anyway

gimmesometruth27

StuffnJunk wrote:

its a whole big long explanation, but basically since the song is in E major, you would solo using the E MAJOR scale, but no one solos using the major scale cuz it sounds "happy" and "lame"......you solo using minor scales, cuz they sound "sad" and "cool".....this is really a basic explanation!!!!

for each key, the "relative minor" scale that wolks with it is three steps below it (or three frets below it)

again, you can research this on your own, i am giving you a quick overview

here are the main keys most rock songs are in, the chords used, and where to solo (main position of pentatonic scale)


key of G - chords - G, C, D, Em........solo in E minor (12th fret)


key of A - chords - A, D, E, F#m.....solo in F#m (2nd or 14th fret)


key of C - chords - C, F, G, Am.....solo in A minor (5th fret)


key of D - chords - D, G, A, Bm....solo in B minor (7th fret)


key of E - chords - E, A, B, C#m.....solo in C#m (9th fret)


look up the Circle of Fifths and I, IV, V chord progressions to get more into this

thanks for posting this. its a great refresher for me. i am a straight rhythm player in my band and i rarely solo. mostly because our lead player is great so i don't need to solo, and also i get really nervous about soloing because when i improvise i tend to get lost and hit a wrong note, or i try to be flashy and get someplace on the fretboard and have a hard time getting back to where i need to be before we all come back together after the solo. this will help me out. it helps that most of the time my audience is fairly intoxicated so nobody but me and the band notice any foul ups.

Dogman3

Ian helped me out alot on theory recently. Thanks, man.

Anon

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

when i improvise i tend to get lost and hit a wrong note, or i try to be flashy and get someplace on the fretboard and have a hard time getting back to where i need to be before we all come back together after the solo. this will help me out. it helps that most of the time my audience is fairly intoxicated so nobody but me and the band notice any foul ups.

See, that's why a lot of people are reluctant to improvise. They worry about getting back in time. Hehe i laughed at what you said about the audience being intoxicated, isn't that just so true, 90% of them will never notice . Can you try to practice with a metronome? Don't listen to the beat, try and feel it. Count it in your head, emphasise it, play around it. Recognize it in how you play, don't just hear it as a 1234 count. Like if you're playing fast passages, try accenting the notes on the beat. If you're playing more rhythmic, syncopated solos, have a go at playing the downbeats downwards and the upbeats upwards. That doesn't always mean play 1234 down and 1& 2& 3& 4& up. You might have to divide that further, depending on the tempo, and play ALL the beats and the ands down, and the notes in between up. Same goes for strumming. It seems pretty obvious, but if you're already doing it, try and emphasize the downbeats a bit more. Listen to the beat and work around it.

You see it alot in in guitarists with no rhythm - they try and play the wrong notes in the wrong direction. (not that i am in anyway suggesting you don't have rhythm!!)

Rhythm = 100 times better than speed and flashiness. When my brother taught me to play he was anal about that, he was always on my back about it. It was good advice for me.

Edited because my spelling was attrocious!

Anon

Dogman3 wrote:

Ian helped me out alot on theory recently. Thanks, man.

He seems to have a way with explaining things easily and quickly. Mostly i know what i mean but i don't think i'm so good at explaining. We are lucky to have Ian around for sure.

ianvomsaal

Dogman3 wrote:

Ian helped me out alot on theory recently. Thanks, man.

Sure, No problem - hopefully what I've gone over is somewhat helpful.
When I’m not recording in the studios (which is usually), then I'm teaching music theory fundamentals to my guitar students.
It all breaks down to understanding where you are, where you're going, and hopefully the simplest route to get there.
All the crazy names and terms you hear/read are basically just a vernacular used to get everyone to the same point.
Cheers . . .

- Ian

Kegzy05

Thankyou also to Ian and all who always help with the theory of things. I have found many posts very informative and helpful. I have a question, it may be stupid or something im missing. If alive is in the key of A Major then wouldnt the relative minor scale be F# minor penta. Yet the solo is play in E minor pentatonic?

Anon

Alive is G major/E minor pentatonic scale.

Jam10

Thanks guys for all the advice! Another question.......when I am in the key of A, can I solo using the C major scale along with the A minor blues scale? Or if I am in the Key of E like in Yellow Ledbetter, can I solo using the G major scale along with the E minor blues scale?

Thanks

Jam10

Sorry another example, if the song is in the key of G, am I correct saying that I can use the A# blues scale?

ianvomsaal

Remember the sheet I forwarded you on Key Signatures???
click:KEY SIGNATURES
Just take a look at what is sharp or flat in each Key Signature.
In the Key of A-Major there are 3-sharps (F#,C#,G#) - thus the scale is A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G# (on & on)
Now keeping that A-Major scale in mind take a look at the sheet I forwarded you on Scales and Modes.
click:SCALES & MODES
The number in front of each scale/mode dictates a particular note in the given scale, thus in the A-Major Scale:
1=A IONIAN (Major & Major-Pentatonic) (you'd start this mode on the A-5th fret).
2=B DORIAN (B-7th fret)
3=C# PHRYGIAN (C#-9th fret)
4=D LYDIAN (D-10th fret)
5=E MIXOLYDIAN (E-12th fret)
6=F# AEOLIAN (Minor & Minor-Pentatonic) (F#-14th fret or 2nd fret)
7=G# LOCRIAN (G#-16th fret or 4th fret)

---

G-Major only has one sharp (F#), thus the scale is G-A-B-C-D-E-F# (and continues over and over again)
So the same rules apply: G=1, A=2, B=3, C=4, D=5, E=6, F#=7
Just match the number (#) up with the appropriate scale/mode from the diagram, then just move to that spot on
the neck and start at that beginning note (it helps to memorize the notes on your low-E-String past the 12th fret).
BTW, the Blues-Scale is basically the same thing as the Pentatonic-Scale (with the exception of 1-added note).
Cheers . . .

- Ian

Drew263

Jam10 wrote:

Thanks guys for all the advice! Another question.......when I am in the key of A, can I solo using the C major scale along with the A minor blues scale? Or if I am in the Key of E like in Yellow Ledbetter, can I solo using the G major scale along with the E minor blues scale?

Thanks

A minor is the relative minor to C Major
A Major is the relative major to F# Minor.

So key of A major? No. Key of A minor? Yes.