Prices on FENDER Guitars - what you should know, but what they don't want you to know
ianvomsaal
Posts: 1,224
(THIS IS ONLY FOR FENDER GUITARS -- other manufactures (like Gibson) are different).
Just a little heads up for those of you in USA looking to buy a Fender Guitar.
You can get a decent price on Fender at bigger stores like Guitar Center - you just have to know how to handle it.
Take a look at the MSRP (aka LIST PRICE) on the Fender Guitar you want to buy.
Now subtract 30% from that List Price (this is a STANDARD SELLING PRICE).
That price should be about the same as the store's price (if you're asked to pay more, you're getting ripped off).
(Guitar Center own MusiciansFriend, therefore the Fender Guitar prices are comparable for reference).
Example: Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster List Price: $1,714.27 - Sale Price: $1,199.99 - that is LITERALLY 30% off List.
But You Don't Have To Pay That Price!!!
I'd suggest you subtract at least 35% from the MSRP (List Price) - that'll give you a good starting point.
You could subtract 40% or 45% off of LIST, and say "I'll give you this much $$ for it."
Hey if they won't go for it, JUST WALK (it's like buying a car) - shrug your shoulders and say, okay, turn around and leave - simple).
Go back another day and do the same thing with another sales guy (someone will eventually bite).
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW:
When I worked at Guitar Center I could order guitars directly from Fender.
We subtracted 50% off the LIST PRICE, then took that price and subtracted another 20% .
This is how much Guitar Center "ACTUALLY" pays for Fender Guitars
Meaning Guitar Center buys the AMERICAN DELUXE STRAT (listed above for $1,714.27) for about $686 plus shipping.
Now you'll never be able to get it for that price (since it's literally cost before shipping).
However, paying $900 for a $1714.27 listed guitar that sells for $1,199.99 isn't unreasonable.
Cheers . . .
- Ian
PS - those of you looking to buy a used Fender should take all of this into account as well.
Do the math - I mean, what can you buy a new one for??? Ebay is generally a rip-off here in the US.
Just a little heads up for those of you in USA looking to buy a Fender Guitar.
You can get a decent price on Fender at bigger stores like Guitar Center - you just have to know how to handle it.
Take a look at the MSRP (aka LIST PRICE) on the Fender Guitar you want to buy.
Now subtract 30% from that List Price (this is a STANDARD SELLING PRICE).
That price should be about the same as the store's price (if you're asked to pay more, you're getting ripped off).
(Guitar Center own MusiciansFriend, therefore the Fender Guitar prices are comparable for reference).
Example: Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster List Price: $1,714.27 - Sale Price: $1,199.99 - that is LITERALLY 30% off List.
But You Don't Have To Pay That Price!!!
I'd suggest you subtract at least 35% from the MSRP (List Price) - that'll give you a good starting point.
You could subtract 40% or 45% off of LIST, and say "I'll give you this much $$ for it."
Hey if they won't go for it, JUST WALK (it's like buying a car) - shrug your shoulders and say, okay, turn around and leave - simple).
Go back another day and do the same thing with another sales guy (someone will eventually bite).
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW:
When I worked at Guitar Center I could order guitars directly from Fender.
We subtracted 50% off the LIST PRICE, then took that price and subtracted another 20% .
This is how much Guitar Center "ACTUALLY" pays for Fender Guitars
Meaning Guitar Center buys the AMERICAN DELUXE STRAT (listed above for $1,714.27) for about $686 plus shipping.
Now you'll never be able to get it for that price (since it's literally cost before shipping).
However, paying $900 for a $1714.27 listed guitar that sells for $1,199.99 isn't unreasonable.
Cheers . . .
- Ian
PS - those of you looking to buy a used Fender should take all of this into account as well.
Do the math - I mean, what can you buy a new one for??? Ebay is generally a rip-off here in the US.
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It's not 40% off List ($1025.56), but another 7% in actuality is better than paying the regular sale price.
I don't know why they call it "Sale Price", it's the "what it typically sells for" price.
I just hope this is out the door, case and tax included (if you're getting it all for that price you're negotiating well).
- Ian
<b><font color="red">CONTACT ME HERE</font>: www.myspace.com/ianvomsaal</b>
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American deluxe comes with a case. Should be added on. If they are, hope fender doesn't find out.
https://www.facebook.com/aghostwritersapology/
You think you're getting a decent price on the guitar, until you find out it's without a case.
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Exactly, then they take them in on trades in for one cent. But hey, the sales guy has to make a buck too.
This is a great thread. I forget that some people don't know this stuff. It probably does kill mom and pops, but geez, that's a lot of markup.
It's one reason I don't like Ovations or most other Kaman stuff redonkulous markup.
Depending on how the salesman is doing that day he or she might cut you a better deal as well.
I also tend to stick with the same sales people at each store. Helps out.
https://www.facebook.com/aghostwritersapology/
The biggest single day spending i've done (in a GC at least) was about $1500. But the normal sale price would have put me at about 2000 that day, and it's just a matter of asking for it.
Picked up a Vox AC15, asked for a discount because it's a floor model. That was a hundred off. They couldn't find the footswitch at first, i waited it out, but would have demanded something free without it. Demanded a free cord to the footswitch. Got it.
Bought a couple distortion pedals that day, and a Power Brick. I think i paid full for the pedals, but 20% off the Brick, and free patch cables for the pedals.
Last was an Epi LP. I had been carrying it around playing all the other stuff i bought, and i needed an LP (Gibby's too high for the moment, i've already rebuilt the Epi). The store was closing and i asked how much they could come down the guitar. They knocked it from 499 to 399 (which you can find new Epi's for here and there throughout the year at normal sale price). I said, "what about the case?" They said "Can't do it." I just stood there a second because the store was closed, i had the whole staff waiting for me, and i had already spent enough cash to feel justified. Then i just put the guitar down on the nearest stand. Sure enough, the guy says "well, wait, we can do something..." So i got the guitar at 399, and a hardshell SKB for 20 bucks.
This story is for all the kids who get financially raped by guitar stores, chain and Mom/Pop alike (Mom/Pop can, but does not always equal "the good guys"). I am just your normal, extremely passive guy. My friend who was with me was shocked, because i had three sales guys running around looking for stuff, asking manager approval, etc. He had never seen me make stuff happen like that. But it took lots of years to build up knowledge before i gained the confidence to realize i know more about this stuff then most of those employees. Useless Gear Knowledge.
Just know what you want, what you have to spend, then make it happen. Save paying full price for impulse buys, but scout out the big purchases, and take care of your money. Cheers.
You talking about the '62? Those are about $1,400 thru musiciansfriend. I'd shoot for a grand at first, but I wouldn't expect them to take it. Might be able to snag it for $1,100.
https://www.facebook.com/aghostwritersapology/
that's 50% off the list... quite a stretch.
There's nothing wrong with settling for a fair deal. Try running a business and see how many overheads you have to contend with. I like to think that I get some goodwill thrown in with the goods if I don't screw people to the last cent. I never play two stores off each other, except with cars, cos there we are talking thousands, and they get you on teh seervices anyway.
I'm not comfortable with screwing guys for the very last cent, and I want the shop to be there for next time.
My approach is to ask what their best price is. First storre to give me the price I'm happy wiht gets the business. Once they know that is your approach, they will give you teh best price first, without any BS, which makes the whole process much nicer. I tell them straight up that's how I work, and they get with the programme quick.
I do expect a case when it's a standard fit to the git, and would walk if they tried to screw me out of one.
Any premium guitar should come with a case.
You have said that part of the pleausure here for you is goign to the store and having that whole shopping experience. Trying too hard to screw the best deal might spoil that for you too.
I like your "I'm satisfied with that" comment !! Shows a level head and a balanced outlook on life .
2005.09.05
"how many people did die from that?...did P.Diddy kill them?" - Eddie Vedder 2006.02.19
So, no more whinging about Strat prices OK !!!!!!!!!
Just do the math, it's not that difficult!!!!
If LIST is $1999, 30% off of that is $1399.30.
40% off of list is $1199.40 -- that's a better area to shoot for.
Guitar Center may buy this guitar for $800 before shipping, ect, ect, but they'll say cost is actually about $900,
Because that's what the computer actually says (if the employee says "this is cost", they're typically not lying, it's what the computer says).
Corporate Guitar Center marks everything up 10% over actual cost (it's in the computer at that price).
This way, even if an employee gives something away at "COSTt" (which means they're not making anything on the deal themselves), the Guitar
Center entity itself is still making about 10% on the sale (this way all of their other expenses are covered).
Commission at GC is complicated -- typically depending on how long the employee has worked there determines their % rates.
Employees usually make between 1% & 3% on gross sales, and between 4% & 10% on gross profit . . . but there's a BIG catch.
Add both % rates together (gross sales and gross profit), and now subtract their hourly pay (minimum wage) from that total.
Whatever the different is, is their commission (which most of the time isn't much at all, especially for new employees).
If their combined gross sales and gross profit is less than their hourly pay they DON'T make any commission.
GC usually fires the people that don't make any commission after a few months -- this is why there's such a large employee turnaround.
$1000 for this guitar is what they call a 10-up deal (meaning 10% over cost).
The right guy will do this, but they're not showing much profit, so you can try, but it doesn't mean they'll do it . . . NOR SHOULD THEY
Seriously, these guys want to make $$$ (who doesn't) - the best way for them to make $$$ is to sell gear at as close to sale prices (GLP) as possible.
As I said, if you're looking to get a deal, the best way to keep everyone happiest to shoot for around 40% off the List Price on Fender Guitars.
- Ian C.T. vom Saal
I said Fender Guitars, many times in the ORIGINAL thread because this % system ONLY works for Fender Guitars (not their amps, supplies, or accessories).
Gibson's are a whole different story!!! This will not work for Gibson (they buy Gibson at a different price-point)!!!
Gibson Guitars are more expensive for the retailer to buy than Fender Guitars (period).
Thus they can't come down as much as they can with Fender.
If you've worked with the same sales guy enough, he typically won't try to screw you too hard.
Don't go in with a "take no prisoners" type attitude or your reputation will get around.
Everyone at that store will relish the opportunity to screw you, and you'll be one of the people they all despise and talk shit about on a daily basis.
- Ian C.T. vom Saal
<b><font color="red">CONTACT ME HERE</font>: www.myspace.com/ianvomsaal</b>
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I agree 100%. I don't try and screw these guys over, partially because they were good to me when I was eleven years old in there. They talked to me, showed me shit, etc, so I don't mind paying a little more for that. Every time I walk into the store I talk baseball with the tech, talk a little music, then get the guitars. I don't have any desire to haggle over a few bucks.
https://www.facebook.com/aghostwritersapology/
Commission at Guitar Center is complicated -- typically depending on how long the employee has worked there determines their % rates.
Employees usually make between 1% & 3% on gross sales, and between 4% & 10% on gross profit . . . but there's a BIG catch.
Add both % rates together (gross sales and gross profit), and now subtract their hourly pay (minimum wage) from that total.
Whatever the different is, is their commission (which most of the time isn't much at all, especially for new employees).
If their combined gross sales and gross profit is less than their hourly pay they DON'T make any commission.
GC usually fires the people that don't make any commission after a few months -- this is why there's such a large employee turnaround.
All GC sales associates work for minimum wage (plus commission, if they can make any at all).
Treat them right and they'll usually return the favor.
- Ian
<b><font color="red">CONTACT ME HERE</font>: www.myspace.com/ianvomsaal</b>
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Don't they have a certain quota?
Ian you're a great guy to have around here...but its kind of shocking to see you pound this point home so hard. I think most of us don't even live near a guitar center, or even shop about them, i dont know, this thread just feels weird to me, a little to personal or something, not sure.....
Harrison
2005.09.05
"how many people did die from that?...did P.Diddy kill them?" - Eddie Vedder 2006.02.19
Beginners especially should consider this when buying a guitar. Buy it from someone who's gonna be there for you - not if, but when - something goes wrong with it. Again, it's usually the smaller mom and pop shops who go out of their way to provide this service.
Nowadays, musician's gear pricing is a race to zero, thanks to Musician's Friend/Guitar Center. Pretty soon, nobody will be able to make any money who doesn't buy in massive bulk. Unfortunately, those who buy in massive bulk also don't usually provide the customer service of the smaller stores (obviously, you can luck out with some exceptions).
Remember, where you shop is a vote for the business practices you believe in. Just because you pay MAP, or god-forbid, a little more, doesn't mean anyone is trying to screw you. It may just mean someone is trying to stay in business.
A really cynical person could ask how someone goes from music school grad to studio wiz to GC grunt to owning every flash bit of gear out there and then some as well as 40 strats, but works as a guitar teacher.
I'm cool with all the big stuff, cos I am reasonably successful myself, but the GC grunt part has seemed a little strange to me at times. Just don't fit with the rest.
My friend owns a music store, and I spend some time helping him set up new stuff. Fender is actually pretty cool to deal with, too, as a company. The do give my friend a break on stuff sometimes so he can compete.
He gave up on Gibson, because they became almost impossible to deal with as a small business. He deals with Heritage guitars now, and they are better than the run of the mill Gibson as a rule.
I spent years travelling and playing, and now am successful, but I still love to go down to his store and I set up all the new guitars that come in and love to see what's new. So I'm sort of a grunt and I am because I love instruments and like to fix them for the kids who come in.
My friend can't match Musician's Friend prices and doesn't even try to anymore. If you buy one from his store, though, he'll remember you forever, and when you bring it in for questions or a set up, he'll usually do it for little to nothing, or I will if I'm there.
I think people are starting to go back to looking for a local store because they're tired of the big impersonal places. His biz has been picking up in the last year. :cool:
Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
__________________________________
Hey man, where's your friend's shop? If I'm in the neighborhood sometime I'd love to check it out.
My local shop really stinks. They charge a whole lot (which is understandable) but also a lot of their employees are cold and impersonal. One or two are really cool, but whenever I go in I just never get that welcomed feeling.
Just because someone graduates from Music School doesn't guarantee them a job in the music business.
Unfortunately that was the tough reality I was faced with after graduating.
I moved to San Diego in search of fame and fortune (actually a friend that I did some session work with in Tampa
got a job in San Diego working in a studio -- he was able to get me an internship there).
I was never a studio wiz (I wish) -- as I said, I actually got the break doing studio work because of my music school
background, and the friends I made (though most of the time the pay was really shitty. But I made lots of
contacts, and got to play with some really great expensive gear). I also got to meet, play, and record with
some very big names in the music BIZ (which was really the best part of the job).
This "Music Business" is a very cut throat profession, and most session work is already spoken for -- Dave Navarro
seemed to get an awful lot (I guess I could say most) of the work in LA while I was there.
I ended up getting a job at Guitar Center to try and help make the bills (San Diego is an expensive place to live), and
I got a good discount on gear, and made lots of contacts because of where the GC was located.
I built a decent reputation, and the employees would recommend me for lessons, so once I got enough students
I left GC (this allowed me a lot more free time to hit the studios, and I still made more $$$ then working at GC).
Also, I was getting really tired of the Corporate BS, and we got a new manager that was a real asshole.
80% of the employees either left or were fired after he came in (many were my friends)!!!
Hence, YES I have some ill-will towards corporate GC (thus my driving home the price point thing on Fender Guitars)!!!
So I taught guitar, gig'd local venues, and got the occasional studio gig (you gotta keep putting out feelers).
Then I lucked out when a Sony Rep heard some things I recorded - I ended up signing a small contract with Sony
for some soundtrack work (I got paid really well for that -- 1st time I'd ever made really good $$ recording).
That job led to another, which eventually led to another (It felt soo COOL).
Because of the $$$ I was making, I bought lots and lots of gear (I thought I'd made it, and that it wouldn't end - okay, I was stupid).
The problem is that LA is a cynical place, and if you didn't grown up there in the studios, the other studio trolls have
a lot of animosity towards someone new getting work there -- which makes life very difficult, not to mention getting job recommendations.
Most of the studio work there goes to people that have been there forever (or a friend of that person).
The studio work kind of dried up after my 3rd series around with Sony. I couldn't really afford to keep
living in San Diego (we wanted to buy a house, and I hadn't really saved all that much - as I said, I was stupid).
Thus we moved back to Florida (Tampa area) -- since I lived here before San Diego I still had some decent contacts.
I was able to get some studio gigs, which built into some bands needing a guitarist for tours (thus getting hired to tours).
The local band I play with regularly recorded a few songs for a vampire movie, and we did a small tour (tour bus, uhhgg)
hitting the West coast (Seattle, Portland, LA & San Diego
I'm back to the occasional session gig, and I teach guitar, just biding my time till I become a Rock Star.
I guess I earned my lesson dollar-wise - I saved $$$ - we bought a house last November.
I just got some more studio work next month in NY (I'll be there June 1st-10th).
My current full time gig is as a stay at home dad.
So that's me - Cheers . . .
- Ian C.T. vom Saal
<b><font color="red">CONTACT ME HERE</font>: www.myspace.com/ianvomsaal</b>
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Life stories are funny things. I came from a long way back as a teenager and am doing OK.
I guess the other point that comes from your story that you didn't emphasise, is that once you own it, guitar gear lasts a long time, so a collection can be built over a long period and still be contemporary.
Peace man !!
Dude, you just gotta stand up for what you believe is right (it's what you believe is right by you).
A lot of salespeople look to take advantage of timid unsure individuals (I call those guys the "wolves").
Remember, some people want a lifetime of service, and some want a good price.
I've generally found that poor people (students, ect) want a good price, whereas people with a decent job
and steady income want service. You'll have to figure out what matters more to you.
When I was making a good living I didn't really care (ohh okay, that's how much it costs, here's my money).
I don't make all that much money anymore, so I want a good price.
I don't care that much about the little stores (to me, screw it, it's gear, I want to best price possible - period).
Again, it seems like the only people that really seem to care about the little music stores are either small buisness owners
themselves, or have friends or family that are small business owners (I honestly don't believe Guitar Center has ever had
the negative financial impact on a whole town the way say a WALLMART has - other types of business do fine
with a GC around, because GC only sells music gear - it's not a 1-stop store - shit, Wallmart even sells guitars now).
So hey, I figure, let the guy with the $300,000 or $400,000 plus house and a good job (that wants service)
pay more - he can afford to (plus you generally pay a little more for service).
I just call my GC store manager friend in Syracuse and ask him what's a good price for this or that.
Now. . . I'm not looking to get it for cost, but at the same time, I want to get a really good deal.
He'll make a few calls, tell 'em I'm coming, and they'll hook me up.
Done . . . they still make a few $$$, and I still get a good deal.
Hey, I'm still young -- when I get older, or signed (or get a good steady job with consistent $$ coming in),
maybe then I'll be willing to pay the price on the tag.
- Ian
<b><font color="red">CONTACT ME HERE</font>: www.myspace.com/ianvomsaal</b>
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You mentioned the PRS McCarty Hollowbody in some previous thread and I was looking at the specs for that tonight. Looks and sounds fantastic, and the hollowbody might be good on my back (I have back problems), but as you mentioned, I'm a student. I can't afford a $4000 guitar (much less a $400 Epi, lol). I'll probably invest later when I can afford it, but for now you're right. I get all my pedals off ebay even if it only saves me $20 here and $30 there. Every little bit counts.
7/9/06 LA 1
7/10/06 LA 2
10/21/06 Bridge 1