Question about delay

xtremehardy388

How can I get the "metallic" reverb type sound using my digital delay (Digitech Digi Delay/BOSS DD6)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQzSGVd6rgY

:37 and 2:36 mark. Also, the 5:30 somethin mark

It's not too good of an example. Sorry

OBC

Though he hasn't used the DL4 in 2000, I can tell you how he gets these kinds of sound out of the Line 6 DL4 nowadays:

Analog Delay with Mix, Tweek and Tweez Knobs up a lot.
That makes the natural "decaying" of the guitar sound that comes with analog delays faster and more spaced out. Mike uses one preset out of three on his DL4 for just these kind of "last-note-fade-outs".

jcmark611

Unless those delays can emulate an Analog or Tape delay it's not possible. My DD-3 cannot do that.

ianvomsaal

Mike just rocks back on his Wah (hence that nasal type sound) with his delay set on like
800m/s & like 10 or 12 repeats that he rocks off with the volume when he wants to kill it.

exhausted

xtremehardy388 wrote:

How can I get the "metallic" reverb type sound using my digital delay (Digitech Digi Delay/BOSS DD6)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQzSGVd6rgY

:37 and 2:36 mark. Also, the 5:30 somethin mark

It's not too good of an example. Sorry

tape sim (mode 4) on your digitech is about as close as you're going to get.

xtremehardy388

exhausted wrote:

tape sim (mode 4) on your digitech is about as close as you're going to get.

YAY! Thank you

OffHeGoes29

I'm debating to pick up a Boss DD-3 or a MXR M169 pedal?

exhausted

try them both but i'd personally much rather have the mxr delay.

xtremehardy388

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

I'm debating to pick up a Boss DD-3 or a MXR M169 pedal?

MXR. Try 'em both but like Exausted said...MXR

xtremehardy388

ianvomsaal wrote:

Mike just rocks back on his Wah (hence that nasal type sound) with his delay set on like
800m/s & like 10 or 12 repeats that he rocks off with the volume when he wants to kill it.

I tried doing this and I didn't get the sound. It just kinda faded out.

xtremehardy388

exhausted wrote:

tape sim (mode 4) on your digitech is about as close as you're going to get.

I tried this any idea on where the knobs should be for it?

exhausted

just have to use your ears. i have no idea on settings.

it's a short delay (less than half a second).

mccreadyisgod

I agree that an analog delay (or analog-modeled delay) is key. The difference between digital and analog is that digital delays just echo out, true to the original, whereas analog delays suffer from signal degradation as the delay trails off. Essentially, the echos get more lo-fi with every repeat.

Also, as Ian said, Mike was using a wah that he would leave at a "static" (or set) position for those trails, which gives the notes a more nasal sound as well. I think that combining the two will give the effect you're looking for.

xtremehardy388

mccreadyisgod wrote:

I agree that an analog delay (or analog-modeled delay) is key. The difference between digital and analog is that digital delays just echo out, true to the original, whereas analog delays suffer from signal degradation as the delay trails off. Essentially, the echos get more lo-fi with every repeat.

Also, as Ian said, Mike was using a wah that he would leave at a "static" (or set) position for those trails, which gives the notes a more nasal sound as well. I think that combining the two will give the effect you're looking for.

Ahh, thanks, man. Totally understand now. I'll have to try it tomorrow since it's just past time curfew out here.

jcmark611

It almost sounds like he has the volume on the delays set so high that it just starts to feedback onto itself. Once it reaches that point he turns it off and the delay trails off. (You have to have a delay that doesn't just shut off when you turn it off).

xtremehardy388

jcmark611 wrote:

It almost sounds like he has the volume on the delays set so high that it just starts to feedback onto itself. Once it reaches that point he turns it off and the delay trails off. (You have to have a delay that doesn't just shut off when you turn it off).

Yeah, my DD6 and Digi both don't turn off when I simply click "off"

jcmark611

With the DD-6 you might get close if you set the F.Back to max and adjust the E.Level until the delay starts feeding back like you want it to.

xtremehardy388

jcmark611 wrote:

With the DD-6 you might get close if you set the F.Back to max and adjust the E.Level until the delay starts feeding back like you want it to.

If I do that, though, the delay doesn't stop.

OffHeGoes29

MXR M169 is on my X-mas list.......I dream about it daily.

xtremehardy388

I figured out a better way to describe the sound I'm looking for. A "harsh" delay. I tried it with the dan echo and I can get it with heavy overdrive and then turning my guitar volume off, quick. I drive it with the DD6 and Digitech and I can't get it. I tried some of the suggestions here but it didn't work. Any one know what I'm talking about or have any ideas?

exhausted

the dan-echo is a cool pedal. just keep it on board.

also, if you haven't already, just try it with the delays in front of the overdrives. that way the echos are somewhat distorted by the gain pedals.

xtremehardy388

exhausted wrote:

the dan-echo is a cool pedal. just keep it on board.

also, if you haven't already, just try it with the delays in front of the overdrives. that way the echos are somewhat distorted by the gain pedals.

That idea of having them in front of the distortion sounds good but I'm afraid of too much feedback from the distortions. I can't find a good sound clip of the delay but you can usually hear it on 2003 versions of "Daughter" and "Nothing As It Seems" from Mike. I really like the sound of it "crashing" together.

xtremehardy388

exhausted wrote:

the dan-echo is a cool pedal. just keep it on board.

also, if you haven't already, just try it with the delays in front of the overdrives. that way the echos are somewhat distorted by the gain pedals.

Oh, I also haven't bought the dan echo but it would be the third delay on my board. Even I am thinking my board is too crowded, now. I'm trying to make due with what I got, first.

exhausted

xtremehardy388 wrote:

That idea of having them in front of the distortion sounds good but I'm afraid of too much feedback from the distortions. I can't find a good sound clip of the delay but you can usually hear it on 2003 versions of "Daughter" and "Nothing As It Seems" from Mike. I really like the sound of it "crashing" together.

just try it though. i'm sure mike's amps are overdriven (despite whatever gain pedals are on) so, effective, it's the same thing as having the delay before gain. you do need to turn the repeats level down a bit perhaps but i think it's going to get you what you want.

in mike's old setup from 98 or whatever, his delay was placed before his signal split so it was in front of all gains.

xtremehardy388

exhausted wrote:

just try it though. i'm sure mike's amps are overdriven (despite whatever gain pedals are on) so, effective, it's the same thing as having the delay before gain. you do need to turn the repeats level down a bit perhaps but i think it's going to get you what you want.

in mike's old setup from 98 or whatever, his delay was placed before his signal split so it was in front of all gains.

Good idea. I appreciate all this help.

savman

Hey all,
The original link has disappeared? Can someone advise what song(s) the effect/ tone we are trying to get is from?
thanks,

xtremehardy388

savman wrote:

Hey all,
The original link has disappeared? Can someone advise what song(s) the effect/ tone we are trying to get is from?
thanks,

Yeah, of course. I'm using a BOSS DD6 and/or a Digitech Digidelay. You can mainly hear the "crashing" delay in Mike's 2000 and 2003 rig. Songs like Daughter (during the tag section, in his fills), and Nothing As It Seems, are what I'm looking for.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB368mlj7aU&feature=related at the 2:17 mark, 4:03, and 5:09. It's not as harsh as what I've heard and what I want, though. I can't really find good videos of that.

FinsburyParkCarrots

What I would do with the DigiDelay is have the setting on option 5, the Mod Delay, and whack the feedback right up so it sounds warmer than usual and a bit more like Option 4, the Tape Delay (which I wouldn't use in this case as it wouldn't emphasise the repeated signals like that).

You might want the level and feedback up pretty high, but as for the time, off the top of my head it's probably somewhere around the twelve o' clock mark. I'll give you a better guess about that, when I get the guitar out later and have a bash at getting that sound.

savman

thanks for the link.

In the large part I tend to agree with Ian. Sounds like he definately uses a Wah rocking back along with the delay, maybe with some reverb to give it a bit of body?

If we are throwing out crazy ideas, I have a couple? Probably way off but what the hey. I remember there were some weird effects on the Boss GT-8 that i have (but havnt played it for ages). Like auto-wah and gating effects. Another thought was gated-reverb with delay added somehow. I know Phil Collins used it in 'the air tonight' and I read below http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gated_reverb that it is linked through to the drums? Thinking of Mr Cameron and 'you are' I thought it may be an option, although unlikely. On the clip you posted i couldnt make out Mike playing the note that delays which is why i thought of the above? Although the video may well be lagging?

FinsburyParkCarrots

Okay, I had a bit of a fart around, and I found I could pull off a passable version of that delay with wah, fuzz, my Digidelay set at Option 5 with the level at 3 o' clock, repeat on 3 o' clock, and the time at fractionally past twelve o' clock. Get ready to switch it on and off quite quickly. I'd whack on a lot of reverb too, and use the DD-3 at another setting for the closing guitar soloing. The growling wah should be up near the heel position, I think. Not that I'm a skilled technician or anything: I just love making fucked up noises.

mccreadyisgod

I've never owned a DL-4, but I thought you could use an expression pedal to control things like Feedback rate... it seems to me you could get a really good version of this effect with an analog delay model (like I said before, they get more lo-fi, usually more metallic, with each repeat) and using the exp pedal to pump the feedback, modulate it, and then bring it back in. The wah would help get that nasal sound as well.

We need that old analogman analogy about analog delay is like laid-back hippie monkeys...