Ed Vedder, Paul McCartney and Jack White dont use 'circle of fifths'

ianvomsaal

Anyhow, playing for yourself (strummy stummy) is fine, I have no qualms about that, but if you're
bringing other people into the mix it's a bit of another story.
All I ask is for people to learn some basic shit (like what chords their playing) so their not wasting anyone’s time.
It's much quicker and easier for someone to tell me "the progression is Em Bm7 Dm Am7," than it is to show me
where they put their fingers.
And I don't want to play the chord in the same place as them anyway - it's redundant to play exactly the same thing.
- Ian

dunkman

ianvomsaal wrote:

Anyhow, playing for yourself (strummy stummy) is fine, I have no qualms about that, but if you're
bringing other people into the mix it's a bit of another story.
All I ask is for people to learn some basic shit (like what chords their playing) so their not wasting anyone’s time.
It's much quicker and easier for someone to tell me "the progression is Em Bm7 Dm Am7," than it is to show me
where they put their fingers.
And I don't want to play the chord in the same place as them anyway - it's redundant to play exactly the same thing.
- Ian

its alright amigo... i wont be bringing others into the mix

i used the Noel Gallgher thing to highlight that although he doesnt know any theory he's 'made it' and he's a songwriter... just me saying to myself that i really dont need to know this stuff.. i'm only ever playing for myself, i only want to know so much and all this circle of fifths, I II IV stuff is just never gonna sink in with me... well it might if i devoted time to it but i cant even understand the basic concept behind it, but thanks for trying Ian and others..

lucylespian

What is this "circle of filth" you speak of ?????

who's_pearljam?

dunkman wrote:

and so neither will I

Haha,,, Heineken Helen and Barry were at my house last week for a few days, and I had a few house guests last weekend, too. They all brought gifts of booze.
So my "circle of fifths" consists of a few bottles of Irish whiskey, two tequilas, and one Appleton Rum. Pretty "major"!
They'll eventually be diminished though!



Like everyone so well stated above, if you're just plinking around and playing some songs, you probably don't need to know how to read music, but if you want to go anywhere with it, it sure does help. Music theory is a tool.

You CAN build a house with your bare hands, but if you have the right tools you can move into that sucker a lot sooner!


Like the old joke says:

How do you get a guitarist to turn down his amp?

Put sheet music in front of him!

lucylespian

ACtually dunks, you do use a I-IV-V progression all the time.
Think Ball and Biscuit.

It's a blues in E, moves to a, back to A up to B. then fucks aboot int teh turnaround. Knowing that frees up teh opportunity to expreess that idea all over the place.

If ay wanna totoalyh avoid the circle of filth, go open tuning, then you don't need to know nothing except whether it sounds OK or not !!

Pearl Jam and toast

westsidepie wrote:

..you doing music theory whether or not you realize it.

Ah, but that's exactly my point!

Studying it (to me) is bollocks. Also it's boring, and music should never be boring.

surferdude

ianvomsaal wrote:

Anyhow, playing for yourself (strummy stummy) is fine, I have no qualms about that, but if you're
bringing other people into the mix it's a bit of another story.
All I ask is for people to learn some basic shit (like what chords their playing) so their not wasting anyone’s time.
It's much quicker and easier for someone to tell me "the progression is Em Bm7 Dm Am7," than it is to show me
where they put their fingers.
And I don't want to play the chord in the same place as them anyway - it's redundant to play exactly the same thing.
- Ian

I hate to admit it but you are so right here. I'm slowly working on building a song portfolio and occassionally sitting down with professional musicians and I just struggle. They talk a completely different language than I do. It makes it harder to make progress. I make progress banging it out on a guitar, they want to make progress by knowing what's happening first and going from there.

One part of me does not want to know any theory. The more theory you know the harder it is to not care about theory in the creative process. I never want to feel that this is the right chord to use after that one, especially when I'm stuck.

Regardless, I'm biting the bullet and taking lessons come the fall. Hopefully I'll have a genius teacher who can have theory make sense to me. Hell, I'll be happy knowing the names of the chords I play. Once I move out of open chords I have no idea what's going on. I seriously play chords by thinking that's a nice pattern my fingers are making, I wonder what it sounds like.

westsidepie

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

Ah, but that's exactly my point!

Studying it (to me) is bollocks. Also it's boring, and music should never be boring.

Look, it is just a matter of style. Athlethes have natural abilities for much of what they do. They even may have unconscious theories of the most effective way to throw or run or hit. After all, do you really need a theory to throw a ball? Nevertheless, in professional sports, this is exactly what coaches do. They come in and start teaching them a theory about how to be more effective in what they do by making them conscious of certain procedures. It helps to know muscles work in order to use them more effectively. Same thing for speed picking. And even if you are doing theory without realizing it, bringing it into your consciousness, just makes everything flow. I am sorry you find it boring. I don't. In fact, I find not difference between the theory and the music; same thing different scenery. I would counter you claim by saying if your music theory is boring, then your music will be equally boring.

Pearl Jam and toast

westsidepie wrote:

Look, it is just a matter of style. Athlethes have natural abilities for much of what they do. They even may have unconscious theories of the most effective way to throw or run or hit. After all, do you really need a theory to throw a ball? Nevertheless, in professional sports, this is exactly what coaches do. They come in and start teaching them a theory about how to be more effective in what they do by making them conscious of certain procedures. It helps to know muscles work in order to use them more effectively. Same thing for speed picking. And even if you are doing theory without realizing it, bringing it into your consciousness, just makes everything flow. I am sorry you find it boring. I don't. In fact, I find not difference between the theory and the music; same thing different scenery. I would counter you claim by saying if your music theory is boring, then your music will be equally boring.

It really is just a matter of style. Some people learn better by actually learning the music theory from a book or teacher,.. but personally I choose experience.

FinsburyParkCarrots

Learn the basic chords to Hey Joe, transpose them, and you're on your way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixXb6MS660E


This is a better wikipedia page to work on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_progression

lucylespian

Hey dunks, instead of worrying aboot teh circle of filth, it's much more useful to learn two little interval phrases, which will let you work out any scale at all, without remembering much.

MAjor scale - tone tone semi-tone, tone tone tone semi-tone

Minor Scale - tone semi-tone tone, tone tone tone semitone


( all corrections welcome)

See, the circle of filth is really just so you can look at a key signature , and decipher what teh key is. But if you know a song is in D , or E , then that has no further use.
Once you can work out scales though, musical life gets more interesting.

ianvomsaal

Here, just use this - each number represents a degree of the scale.
I give this to all my students - this will let you play through any key.
Example - C-MAJOR SCALE (C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C): 1=C, 2=D, 3=E, 4=F, 5=G, 6=A, 7=B.
click here: SCALES & MODES
Have fun - Cheers . . .

- Ian C.T. vom Saal