Thanks for the info MIG. So you figure changing out the pre-amp tubes (7 of them) every six months or so and the power tubes (2 of them) about once every year? I could see how a tube amp could be pricy if your blowing pre-amp tubes all the time.
Paco got it... you took it backwards. Power tubes should run you about $25-30 a pair (I'd buy a quartet for $45-60) and preamp tubes will run about $6-15 apiece, depending on brand. I prefer Electro Harmonix for preamp tubes, they're about $10 apiece.
So, every year it's $30, and every other year it's $100.
Now, to flip-flop on my posts in other threads...
It would be a really good idea to have that amp biased when you swap tubes. My recommendation is to get matched quartets of power tubes, so that you can switch the power tubes once without biasing, and get it biased every two years (most likely when you are replacing the preamp tubes). In other words, bias it before putting in the first two tubes from the quartet, then you can replace with the other two from the quartet without needing it biased. And definitely get it biased the first time you replace the tubes. Bogners are great amps, but they're an amp guru's amp, so they're supposed to get regular care and feeding. And for that kind of investment, it's worth it to maintain it right. Besides, if I remember right, Bogner has some wicked high-voltage plate currents, so you'll want to check it.
...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
K Thanks, Let me know what you think when you try one of these bad boys out. Tell me how much drive you can get through er'
ok man, I'm back from the shop. Yes, it's got an indicator for the lead channel, on the amp and the footswitch. Boost is only on the lead channel and yes you can leave it on ready to go when you switch channels. Reverb is tube driven, full rich and glorious, which is pretty much how the clean goes. The clean also has a master volume to take you from completely clean to Hiwatt crunchy clean type tone. The lead channel takes you from where the first one leaves off all the way up to high gain rock lead but not so over the top that note definition is lost. The test guitar was a tom anderson with both single coils and a humbucker and yes they both play well.
The lead channel is very marshally but more dynamic with more balls, personally I doubt you'll need a Fulldrive to achieve what you're looking for but it does give you more and more of what's there, though I'd probably just go with some kind of clean boost, but it's not that necessary. With only 2 EL 34's I tend to think 80 watts a bit of an overstatement, even at high plate voltages I tend to doubt it's actually pushing that much power RMS, but don't think anything of it, you won't need more than it's got and it's more than enough for rich full tone at any volume level. More than enough to push 2 4x12 cabs should you choose to.
Unfortunately any repair save fuses and tubes is going to have to go to Bogner, they are extremely picky about people poking about in thier amplifiers aparently and unauthorized work voids the warranty.
Tubes are fairly simple to replace though it's a 10 min operation or so, you have to remove the back panel to get to everything but there's plenty of room for your hands.
The amp is as advertised and the soundclips posted are accurate.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
Now when you are talking about biasing the amp, you are talking about taking it into a shop rather than doing it myself right? The whole concept of biasing still has me a little confused. Paco you said for any repairs you have to send it to bogner right?
Thanks for checking into that for me Paco. Thats very cool that theres a LED indicator on the amp and the footswitch. I also like the fact that you can leave the boost on when you switch channels....that sounds awesome, apparently with the boost on it sounds much better than just channel 2 alone...thats what I read on Harmony central anyways. Hopefully you can adjust the gain/ master on the clean so that there is not too much jump in volume going from clean to distortion with the boost on. So you think the amps got enough distortion without the fulltone eh?....thats good to know. I guess I could always buy the head first and then get a fulltone if I can't get enough drive out of it.
As far as warranty goes for repairs, it really wouldn't apply to me, since I am going to end up saving over a grand by buying me used on E-bay...
Do you need a phillips screwdriver to remove the back panel to change the tubes out? When you replace tubes, do you usually replace the whole set (of 7) or just the one that you think is damaged?
You used just the Shiva EL34 head right? What type of cab/cabs did you plug into?
Now when you are talking about biasing the amp, you are talking about taking it into a shop rather than doing it myself right? The whole concept of biasing still has me a little confused. Paco you said for any repairs you have to send it to bogner right?
Thanks for checking into that for me Paco. Thats very cool that theres a LED indicator on the amp and the footswitch. I also like the fact that you can leave the boost on when you switch channels....that sounds awesome, apparently with the boost on it sounds much better than just channel 2 alone...thats what I read on Harmony central anyways. Hopefully you can adjust the gain/ master on the clean so that there is not too much jump in volume going from clean to distortion with the boost on. So you think the amps got enough distortion without the fulltone eh?....thats good to know. I guess I could always buy the head first and then get a fulltone if I can't get enough drive out of it.
As far as warranty goes for repairs, it really wouldn't apply to me, since I am going to end up saving over a grand by buying me used on E-bay...
Do you need a phillips screwdriver to remove the back panel to change the tubes out? When you replace tubes, do you usually replace the whole set (of 7) or just the one that you think is damaged?
You used just the Shiva EL34 head right? What type of cab/cabs did you plug into?
Biasing is not all that difficult to do you just have to know how to do it. check out the meters here at http://www.webervst.com
When you replace tubes at a gig, you only replace the problem tubes, usually that's on of the preamp tubes V1 V2 V3 or one of the Power tubes.
This amp has 3 gain stages so there's plenty on hand and yes, you'll be able to find a happy medium of volume between the 2 channels.
you need a phillips screwdriver wouldn't hurt to bring an electric drill with you to the gig for speed purposes.
The Shiva head was plugged into what was available...a crappy old Fender 4x12. yeah, it sounded fantastic even through that cab. No worries.
I appreciate you checking that Shiva head out for me...I really wish I could try one out as well. That biasing still has me really confused, but I guess I have a while to look into it, since its going to take me awhile to afford this amp. Thanks for all your info guys.
Oh, any suggestions on a good cab to go with the Shiva EL34. I was thinking a 2 X 12 is probably the way I'm going to go, just for easy of transport, sound and room.
I was looking at the bogner oversize 2 X 12, maybe a Mesa? My plan is to save up enough to buy the head and the cab at the same time.
must be nice to drive 10 minutes and try one out Paco......*cough* fucker...hahaha
Oh, any suggestions on a good cab to go with the Shiva EL34. I was thinking a 2 X 12 is probably the way I'm going to go, just for easy of transport, sound and room.
I was looking at the bogner oversize 2 X 12, maybe a Mesa? My plan is to save up enough to buy the head and the cab at the same time.
must be nice to drive 10 minutes and try one out Paco......*cough* fucker...hahaha
Thanks again
Yeah the bogner cab would be fine but you'll likely be ok with whatever you choose as long as the ohm's match up.
Biasing is simple, think of it like ignition in your car. if too much or too little power goes into your spark plug it burns out or dosen't fire right? same deal here. Biasing is just tuning the amp to the tube. Think of it as a tune up for your automobile.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
What kind of equipment do you need to bias the head yourself?
The bogner cabs are a bit more expensive, but might be worth it.
Yeah the bogner cab is great.
you don't have to go with a bogner cab, there are lots to choose from. Mainly your speaker choice and cabinet wood are the most important thing here. when you're ready let us know I'm sure one of us can rattle off something from any budget level that would work.
You need a bias meter but you also need to understand how to do it and I can't help you there sorry. I'd just take it to an amp tech.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
I would seriously recommend a Mesa 2x12. They've got a really nice, beefy tone, and they're built better than almost any other cab on the market. Their Black Shadow speakers are one of my personal favorites (and I'm a speaker junkie).
If not a Mesa, the Bogner would be okay, and so would any Marshall cabinet. If you want to get a really good budget cabinet, Peavey's sealed-back 1x12" cabs with the Sheffield speakers are CHEAP (I can get them new for around $125 US) and sound great. Take the Peavey logo off, and nobody will notice (especially with a Bogner sitting on top).
As far as biasing, I'd take it to a qualified tech in your area. Tube biasing isn't really a repair, it's maintenance, so there's no need to send it all the way to Bogner for biasing. It's actually quite easy, you just hook up a meter and adjust an amperage value. But if you're not 100% sure of what you're doing, DON'T try yourself... there are parts in the chassis that carry lethal voltage, even shut off and unplugged. And if you run into a problem that's not tube-related, head to FedEx and pony up.
Now, at a gig, you would be replacing the problem tube, which may or may not be obvious (glowing brighter is usually the best sign, or not glowing at all). Preamp tubes can be replaced without worrying about matched sets or all that. So, you can take a new preamp tube and swap it in, no problem. You can do this with a power amp tube, so long as the tube you're replacing is matched to the tube you're replacing it with (from a matched quartet). But you always want the two power tubes in the amp to be matched.
...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
I would seriously recommend a Mesa 2x12. They've got a really nice, beefy tone, and they're built better than almost any other cab on the market. Their Black Shadow speakers are one of my personal favorites (and I'm a speaker junkie).
If not a Mesa, the Bogner would be okay, and so would any Marshall cabinet. If you want to get a really good budget cabinet, Peavey's sealed-back 1x12" cabs with the Sheffield speakers are CHEAP (I can get them new for around $125 US) and sound great. Take the Peavey logo off, and nobody will notice (especially with a Bogner sitting on top).
As far as biasing, I'd take it to a qualified tech in your area. Tube biasing isn't really a repair, it's maintenance, so there's no need to send it all the way to Bogner for biasing. It's actually quite easy, you just hook up a meter and adjust an amperage value. But if you're not 100% sure of what you're doing, DON'T try yourself... there are parts in the chassis that carry lethal voltage, even shut off and unplugged. And if you run into a problem that's not tube-related, head to FedEx and pony up.
Now, at a gig, you would be replacing the problem tube, which may or may not be obvious (glowing brighter is usually the best sign, or not glowing at all). Preamp tubes can be replaced without worrying about matched sets or all that. So, you can take a new preamp tube and swap it in, no problem. You can do this with a power amp tube, so long as the tube you're replacing is matched to the tube you're replacing it with (from a matched quartet). But you always want the two power tubes in the amp to be matched.
*pops top off beers*
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
*drinks and slams beer down*....Canadian beer is like moonshine to you Yankees.
Thanks for the tips on tubes MIG and on Biasing....i'll keep all of it in mind. between you and Paco you guys should start a guitar tech shop. Is it harder to change the power tubes out than the pre-amp tubes?
I was actually thinking about a Mesa 2 X 12 closed back cabinet as well, I think their a little cheaper than a bogner....never heard of the Black Shadow speakers before, but its definately something i'll look into. Do most of the new Mesa 2 X 12's carry these kind of speakers?
Is it harder to change the power tubes out than the pre-amp tubes?
I was actually thinking about a Mesa 2 X 12 closed back cabinet as well, I think their a little cheaper than a bogner....never heard of the Black Shadow speakers before, but its definately something i'll look into. Do most of the new Mesa 2 X 12's carry these kind of speakers?
Tubes are easy to swap... they just pull straight out, and the new ones pop straight in. You have to align the pins, but it's about as easy as replacing a light bulb. Power tubes are the same as preamp tubes, just a bit bigger.
The Black Shadow speakers are hard to come by these days... only used. But the new Mesa Rectifier 2x12" cab comes with two Celestion Vintage 30 speakers, which would fucking rock with the Bogner head. It's a great cabinet, and would definitely give you the sound you want.
...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
I am actually considering it MIG, considering it is located in the next province from me and the shipping wouldn't be that much. I am a little concerned with how old it is, but sometimes older cabinets do sound better.
I am actually considering it MIG, considering it is located in the next province from me and the shipping wouldn't be that much. I am a little concerned with how old it is, but sometimes older cabinets do sound better.
Just ask if the speakers are blown. That cabinet is fine. People are lusting after 40 year old stuff man. old shmold. Bob would be appalled you are discriminating against this cabinet because of it's age
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
No discrimination here Paco....I've already put in that question. Hopefully he/she gets back to me soon because I heading out of town for a gig this weekend. Who's Bob anyway?...i'm not on a "first name" basis with everyone here yet.
No discrimination here Paco....I've already put in that question. Hopefully he/she gets back to me soon because I heading out of town for a gig this weekend. Who's Bob anyway?...i'm not on a "first name" basis with everyone here yet.
"Who's Pearljam" = Bob.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
I am actually considering it MIG, considering it is located in the next province from me and the shipping wouldn't be that much. I am a little concerned with how old it is, but sometimes older cabinets do sound better.
That's actually one of my dream cabinets... it's the inspiration for my forthcoming custom cabinet (2x10" sealed bottom with a 1x12" open top).
As far as the speakers go, he lists it as being stored and hardly any play, no gigs. The cones look good, and he doesn't list any problems/issues (buzzing, etc) so I'd think it's a safe bet. He's got a 100% feedback rating on 72 transactions... it looks like a great deal. The fact that it's in Canada and just next door will make shipping really reasonable... hell, you could almost drive to get it.
That cab is worth at least $350 US... probably closer to $400. If he says it's in good shape, and works, buy it. If you don't like it, I'll buy it from you.
...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
That's actually one of my dream cabinets... it's the inspiration for my forthcoming custom cabinet (2x10" sealed bottom with a 1x12" open top).
As far as the speakers go, he lists it as being stored and hardly any play, no gigs. The cones look good, and he doesn't list any problems/issues (buzzing, etc) so I'd think it's a safe bet. He's got a 100% feedback rating on 72 transactions... it looks like a great deal. The fact that it's in Canada and just next door will make shipping really reasonable... hell, you could almost drive to get it.
That cab is worth at least $350 US... probably closer to $400. If he says it's in good shape, and works, buy it. If you don't like it, I'll buy it from you.
It's in Canada but it ain't exactly next door, unless he's got an airplane
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
Ok, here's the deal. While I was out of town playing a gig, I got my cousin to bid on the auction and also look at any e-mails that the seller might have sent me. So, right when I am about to bid on the 2 X 12 cab that you are drooling over MIG, my cuz reads the e-mail and the seller tells me that it is rated at 4 Ohms. Well I read up on the shiva head (extensively over the last couple weeks) and in the manual it says that the head has (2) 8 ohm jacks and a 16 ohm jack. Now from what I understand what the manual said was you can run (2) 4 ohm cabs in sequence into (1) 8 ohm jack or (2) 8 ohm cabs into the 16 ohm jack. The thing is that I want only (1) cab. If the cabinet would have been rated for 8 ohms I would have bought it. I don't think I would have been able to run that cab by itself into the Shiva head. Now I might be wrong, but I didn't want to risk it.
Ok, here's the deal. While I was out of town playing a gig, I got my cousin to bid on the auction and also look at any e-mails that the seller might have sent me. So, right when I am about to bid on the 2 X 12 cab that you are drooling over MIG, my cuz reads the e-mail and the seller tells me that it is rated at 4 Ohms. Well I read up on the shiva head (extensively over the last couple weeks) and in the manual it says that the head has (2) 8 ohm jacks and a 16 ohm jack. Now from what I understand what the manual said was you can run (2) 4 ohm cabs in sequence into (1) 8 ohm jack or (2) 8 ohm cabs into the 16 ohm jack. The thing is that I want only (1) cab. If the cabinet would have been rated for 8 ohms I would have bought it. I don't think I would have been able to run that cab by itself into the Shiva head. Now I might be wrong, but I didn't want to risk it.
and thus is the problem with Mesa cabs, many are 4 ohms. you did right. that's unfortunate you couldn't use that cab but you made the right decision.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
I know, it sucks man....I was so stoked to buy that cab, and I would have got it with the price I was going to bid in at. Everything should be rated at 8 ohms....god damn it! I am set on getting (1) cab though....either a 2 X 12, or a 1 X 12 if it is loud enough and sounds good enough....I am probably going to end up with a 2 X 12. I think that 4 X 10 groove tubes cab is still available from the seller, but its a little more than I want to haul around to shows.
Comments
K, I'm going now. I'll post info later. I've got to get some strings anyway.
Paco got it... you took it backwards. Power tubes should run you about $25-30 a pair (I'd buy a quartet for $45-60) and preamp tubes will run about $6-15 apiece, depending on brand. I prefer Electro Harmonix for preamp tubes, they're about $10 apiece.
So, every year it's $30, and every other year it's $100.
Now, to flip-flop on my posts in other threads...
It would be a really good idea to have that amp biased when you swap tubes. My recommendation is to get matched quartets of power tubes, so that you can switch the power tubes once without biasing, and get it biased every two years (most likely when you are replacing the preamp tubes). In other words, bias it before putting in the first two tubes from the quartet, then you can replace with the other two from the quartet without needing it biased. And definitely get it biased the first time you replace the tubes. Bogners are great amps, but they're an amp guru's amp, so they're supposed to get regular care and feeding. And for that kind of investment, it's worth it to maintain it right. Besides, if I remember right, Bogner has some wicked high-voltage plate currents, so you'll want to check it.
ok man, I'm back from the shop. Yes, it's got an indicator for the lead channel, on the amp and the footswitch. Boost is only on the lead channel and yes you can leave it on ready to go when you switch channels. Reverb is tube driven, full rich and glorious, which is pretty much how the clean goes. The clean also has a master volume to take you from completely clean to Hiwatt crunchy clean type tone. The lead channel takes you from where the first one leaves off all the way up to high gain rock lead but not so over the top that note definition is lost. The test guitar was a tom anderson with both single coils and a humbucker and yes they both play well.
The lead channel is very marshally but more dynamic with more balls, personally I doubt you'll need a Fulldrive to achieve what you're looking for but it does give you more and more of what's there, though I'd probably just go with some kind of clean boost, but it's not that necessary. With only 2 EL 34's I tend to think 80 watts a bit of an overstatement, even at high plate voltages I tend to doubt it's actually pushing that much power RMS, but don't think anything of it, you won't need more than it's got and it's more than enough for rich full tone at any volume level. More than enough to push 2 4x12 cabs should you choose to.
Unfortunately any repair save fuses and tubes is going to have to go to Bogner, they are extremely picky about people poking about in thier amplifiers aparently and unauthorized work voids the warranty.
Tubes are fairly simple to replace though it's a 10 min operation or so, you have to remove the back panel to get to everything but there's plenty of room for your hands.
The amp is as advertised and the soundclips posted are accurate.
Thanks for checking into that for me Paco. Thats very cool that theres a LED indicator on the amp and the footswitch. I also like the fact that you can leave the boost on when you switch channels....that sounds awesome, apparently with the boost on it sounds much better than just channel 2 alone...thats what I read on Harmony central anyways. Hopefully you can adjust the gain/ master on the clean so that there is not too much jump in volume going from clean to distortion with the boost on. So you think the amps got enough distortion without the fulltone eh?....thats good to know. I guess I could always buy the head first and then get a fulltone if I can't get enough drive out of it.
As far as warranty goes for repairs, it really wouldn't apply to me, since I am going to end up saving over a grand by buying me used on E-bay...
Do you need a phillips screwdriver to remove the back panel to change the tubes out? When you replace tubes, do you usually replace the whole set (of 7) or just the one that you think is damaged?
You used just the Shiva EL34 head right? What type of cab/cabs did you plug into?
Biasing is not all that difficult to do you just have to know how to do it. check out the meters here at http://www.webervst.com
When you replace tubes at a gig, you only replace the problem tubes, usually that's on of the preamp tubes V1 V2 V3 or one of the Power tubes.
This amp has 3 gain stages so there's plenty on hand and yes, you'll be able to find a happy medium of volume between the 2 channels.
you need a phillips screwdriver wouldn't hurt to bring an electric drill with you to the gig for speed purposes.
The Shiva head was plugged into what was available...a crappy old Fender 4x12. yeah, it sounded fantastic even through that cab. No worries.
The weber Bias rite. http://www.webervst.com/bias.html
I was looking at the bogner oversize 2 X 12, maybe a Mesa? My plan is to save up enough to buy the head and the cab at the same time.
must be nice to drive 10 minutes and try one out Paco......*cough* fucker...hahaha
Thanks again
Yeah the bogner cab would be fine but you'll likely be ok with whatever you choose as long as the ohm's match up.
Biasing is simple, think of it like ignition in your car. if too much or too little power goes into your spark plug it burns out or dosen't fire right? same deal here. Biasing is just tuning the amp to the tube. Think of it as a tune up for your automobile.
The bogner cabs are a bit more expensive, but might be worth it.
Yeah the bogner cab is great.
you don't have to go with a bogner cab, there are lots to choose from. Mainly your speaker choice and cabinet wood are the most important thing here. when you're ready let us know I'm sure one of us can rattle off something from any budget level that would work.
You need a bias meter but you also need to understand how to do it and I can't help you there sorry. I'd just take it to an amp tech.
If not a Mesa, the Bogner would be okay, and so would any Marshall cabinet. If you want to get a really good budget cabinet, Peavey's sealed-back 1x12" cabs with the Sheffield speakers are CHEAP (I can get them new for around $125 US) and sound great. Take the Peavey logo off, and nobody will notice (especially with a Bogner sitting on top).
As far as biasing, I'd take it to a qualified tech in your area. Tube biasing isn't really a repair, it's maintenance, so there's no need to send it all the way to Bogner for biasing. It's actually quite easy, you just hook up a meter and adjust an amperage value. But if you're not 100% sure of what you're doing, DON'T try yourself... there are parts in the chassis that carry lethal voltage, even shut off and unplugged. And if you run into a problem that's not tube-related, head to FedEx and pony up.
Now, at a gig, you would be replacing the problem tube, which may or may not be obvious (glowing brighter is usually the best sign, or not glowing at all). Preamp tubes can be replaced without worrying about matched sets or all that. So, you can take a new preamp tube and swap it in, no problem. You can do this with a power amp tube, so long as the tube you're replacing is matched to the tube you're replacing it with (from a matched quartet). But you always want the two power tubes in the amp to be matched.
*pops top off beers*
Thanks for the tips on tubes MIG and on Biasing....i'll keep all of it in mind. between you and Paco you guys should start a guitar tech shop. Is it harder to change the power tubes out than the pre-amp tubes?
I was actually thinking about a Mesa 2 X 12 closed back cabinet as well, I think their a little cheaper than a bogner....never heard of the Black Shadow speakers before, but its definately something i'll look into. Do most of the new Mesa 2 X 12's carry these kind of speakers?
Tubes are easy to swap... they just pull straight out, and the new ones pop straight in. You have to align the pins, but it's about as easy as replacing a light bulb. Power tubes are the same as preamp tubes, just a bit bigger.
The Black Shadow speakers are hard to come by these days... only used. But the new Mesa Rectifier 2x12" cab comes with two Celestion Vintage 30 speakers, which would fucking rock with the Bogner head. It's a great cabinet, and would definitely give you the sound you want.
Fucking buy this right now, don't ask questions, just bid.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43374&item=3776544492&rd=1
Just ask if the speakers are blown. That cabinet is fine. People are lusting after 40 year old stuff man. old shmold. Bob would be appalled you are discriminating against this cabinet because of it's age
"Who's Pearljam" = Bob.
That's actually one of my dream cabinets... it's the inspiration for my forthcoming custom cabinet (2x10" sealed bottom with a 1x12" open top).
As far as the speakers go, he lists it as being stored and hardly any play, no gigs. The cones look good, and he doesn't list any problems/issues (buzzing, etc) so I'd think it's a safe bet. He's got a 100% feedback rating on 72 transactions... it looks like a great deal. The fact that it's in Canada and just next door will make shipping really reasonable... hell, you could almost drive to get it.
That cab is worth at least $350 US... probably closer to $400. If he says it's in good shape, and works, buy it. If you don't like it, I'll buy it from you.
It's in Canada but it ain't exactly next door, unless he's got an airplane
Well, North Dakota is next to Montana... but it would take me 14 hours to reach the border...
Believe me, I know what it's like.
and thus is the problem with Mesa cabs, many are 4 ohms. you did right. that's unfortunate you couldn't use that cab but you made the right decision.
Actually, you probably could've re-wired the cab for 16-ohms with very little trouble... just switched it from parallel to series.
Oh well, you'll find something.