Drummers
meme
Posts: 4,695
Hi there,
I know absolutely nothing about playing musical instruments, but I can sense a difference in the drumming in the studio versions of VS and Vitalogy.
It seems to own the songs more, and feels to me more intense.
I know these are the albums where Dave A. was playing, so I am inclined to say I like him best on those songs, but again I have nothing to support this claim musically.
Would you care to explain to me this feeling in lay but musically competent terms? What makes or breaks a drummer, and what different styles of drumming are out there?
Comparisons with other PJ drummers a plus
I love them all and no, I am not Dave nor one of his girlfriends
I know absolutely nothing about playing musical instruments, but I can sense a difference in the drumming in the studio versions of VS and Vitalogy.
It seems to own the songs more, and feels to me more intense.
I know these are the albums where Dave A. was playing, so I am inclined to say I like him best on those songs, but again I have nothing to support this claim musically.
Would you care to explain to me this feeling in lay but musically competent terms? What makes or breaks a drummer, and what different styles of drumming are out there?
Comparisons with other PJ drummers a plus
I love them all and no, I am not Dave nor one of his girlfriends
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
1) there's the difference in style. Every musician has his own style. So do drummers. Some are fast, hard and energetic, others are groovy, or more subtle.
2) equipment can make a difference. Like one guitar doesn't sound like another, I'm sure the same goes for different sorts or brands in drumkits, cymbals and what not.
3) Recording: you can put different instruments or voices in front in the mix. So you can make it sound like one voice or an instrument is more prominently present in a song. On top of that, there are a couple of different ways of recording in a studio.
That's about all I can give you. I play guitar and I don't even now shit about that... I'm sure someone else will be able to give you more info, or correct mine.
To me the most important person in a rock band is the drummer. THEY set the tone of the music. Next most important is the bass, then all the other stuff. (Especially the guitarists!
Some drummers are precise and keep a tight beat with minimal amount of hitting, like in a jazz trio. That ranges to the ones that are aggressive and hit hard and fast and a lot. ( Like heavy metal or speed stuff). Either way, the general vibe of the band starts with the drummer and the interaction with him or her.
Listen to some Chuck Berry or old Stones records, for example. There’s an intensity to that music that comes from the steady beat of the drum and bass, with the guitar (Keith Richards or Chuck Berry) playing slightly ahead of the beat. It takes a helluva a drummer to keep a beat in that situation. The guitar chord hits just a bit before the drum beat, and gives a sense of urgency to the music. ( Midnight Rambler, or Chuck Berry’s boogie sounds). That’s really hard to do, because the tendency is to want to speed up to catch up to the guitars.
In reggae, the drummer is the beat, and the guitar a split second after the drum beat, which gives it a laid back feel. Same difference, where the drummer instinctively would want to slow down or guitarist speed up to synch with each other.
Same with Pearl Jam. The songs on Ten sound urgent, and other songs like I got Shit have that tension and urgency to them. That has a lot to do with the drummer setting that tone and intensity, which allows the rest of the band to play just a little bit off beat, and gives the music that feel.
So the vibe of a song isn’t just the drummer whapping the hell out of those suckers, but the interaction between the slight time differences between the other instruments,,, or even between the different drums when they’re playing.
I think.
Maybe not though!
Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
__________________________________
(that's my take on it)
Toledo, Ohio (September 22, 1996), East Troy, Wisconsin (June 26, 1998), Noblesville, Indiana (August 17, 1998), Noblesville, Indiana (August 18, 2000), Cincinnati, Ohio (August 20, 2000), Columbus, Ohio (August 21, 2000), Nashville, Tennessee (April 18, 2003), Champaign, Illinois (April 23, 2003), Noblesville, Indiana (June 22, 2003), Chicago, Illinois (May 16, 2006), Chicago, Illinois (August 05, 2007), West Palm Beach, Florida (June 11, 2008), Tampa, Florida (June 12, 2008), Columbus, OH (May 06, 2010), Noblesville, Indiana (May 07, 2010), Wrigley Field (July 19, 2013), US Bank Arena (October 01, 2014), Lexington (April 26, 2016), Chicago Night 2 (August 20, 2018), Boston Night 1 (September 02, 2018), Nashville (September 16, 2022), St. Louis (September 18, 2022)
So, if you had to describe the styles of the different PJ drummers to someone like me, how would you go about it?
Dave A. funk style. Relies heavily on cymbals and bass drum patterns to accentuate the music. Fairly reserved in using the drums themselves...more beat oriented good amount of musical range with drums... Great drummer (one of the reasons I started playing the drums...so i may be a bit biased on this one)
Jack - not a lot of flash with drums or cymbals. Good groove drummer. Very solid drummer who lets others shine and gives a good support to the other members. I like Jack's studio stuff but his playing of other songs (pre Jack) doesn't do it for me.
Matt. Relies more on syncopations and drum fills. Utilizes the toms much more often than Dave. You'll get more "showy" fills with Matt (betterman on lotl, grievance has some good fills on the live versions) Matt is to drums what Dave is/was to cymbals. Matt is prob the best Rock drummer out there right now. IMO doesn't do the best with the "quieter" songs...nothingman. Lays a fat groove on a lot of the older songs (he was the original drummer if you want to get technical). Very good rythm/ odd time feel.
what makes or breaks a drummer is 2 things...timing and overplaying. Take a drummer who isn't flashy but doesn't miss a beat and has good feel, you can't go wrong. Take a flashy drummer who can't play in time and it doesn't matter how many times he can twirl the sticks or how many times he can hit the drums in 4 beats...if he comes back late or early it can ruin a song. The same thing if you have someone being neil peart on a ballad then they can ruin a song by overplaying...there is a time to shine and a time to lay the backbeat down.
Too many styles to list... In rock you have everything from the 2+4 beat of ACDC to the prog rockers who play in all sorts of weird signatures to the tribal drummers (dana carey) who play in straight and odd times with complex patterns. One isn't better than the other, it's all about the music. Throw in the funk/rock and jazz/blues/rock and you've got even more variations.
You need to listen to some better drummers.
Try on some Tool and The Mars Volta. Both their drummers absolutely smoke what Matt has done in PJ. He was much better in SG.
I like Matt's work in SG much better was well. I do listen to other drummers...there are definitely drummers out there who do some things better than matt, no doubt...but to me, I like what he brings to the table the best, just my humble opinion.
Feel free to add to this anyone.
I do like Matt's style in a live setting more than the rest of PJ's drummers.
I think when its all settled, every member of PJ will be similar to Zeppelin in their place in history. Unfortunately, alotta people blame grunge did away with solos and it could be awhile before Mike and Stone get their due.
I also wanna mention that its great bein in a band with a drummer who can do somethin other than 4/4. There arent very many drummers in the non-professional circle that really know how to drum. I am blessed with that and I really appreciate it. He is a big Tool fan and I have been reading up on odd time signatures and what not, to help me actually understand it.
I agree. The members of PJ will probably be looked back upon and appreciated for their musicianship much more so than they are now. Their longevity almost assures this. They may not have the pop punch that can sell millions in the first week but they have the musicianship that people will look back upon and respect much more than the other fly by night bands that sell millions in a year then are gone.
Glad you've got a good drummer. I've been playing for a while (although since grad school i've gotten a bit rusty) and the odd times are fun to play in and at first daunting to try...good luck with the odd time thing...the key is not to think to much
no prob. I like talking about what each drummer brings to the table than which one is better...they're all good which is why they're onstage and we're all watching
I was listening to a very old show... LA 2/7/1991, and came across a beautifully drummed Garden. Do you guys know whether it was still Krusen drumming back then?
harrison
2005.09.05
"how many people did die from that?...did P.Diddy kill them?" - Eddie Vedder 2006.02.19
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
That's right there are drummers / bands who can get away with a sloppy drummer. There are very very few drummers who can play loose like that and make it sound good. Nothing irks me more (as a drummer) when they try to get flashy and end up killing the song. So while there are a very small amount of exceptions that can pull off the "sloppy" feel.... I'll stand by my earlier statement.
Mullen, IMO, is the best bass tom drummer in rock. I've yet to notice another drummer use it like he does. This is very effectively showcased in some songs, see One. Without the ability to overlook flaws and find the value in what he does uniquely he'd just be another drummer who has no idea when to come into a song.
Moon brought his personality to every song. I listen to Quadraphenia and am just amazed that he was ever allowed to drum like that. Musically it makes no sense. Some songs he keeps no beat but still manages to drive the song. Innate ability that can't be taught. I'm just glad the other members of The Who recognized the genius of it.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Mullen is a very good drummer for U2. He'll never win an award for drumming but he can make songs come alive with his simplistic approach and style. Some drummers can just make songs come alive by playing their style. But i really think it's the edges fault for all the timing issues (always gotta blame the guitarists
Wow... thanks for this.
I am learning a lot from you guys.
I can't understand my current fixation with drumming, but I am definitely enjoying this
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
good point. I do miss Dave's bass drum work. Matt does some cool beats and accents with the bass drum but doesn't capture the funk as dave did. Animal is still the song I think needs to be more played in Daves style...it just seems a little boring the way it's played now.