PJ's drummer

mogwaimogwai Posts: 141
edited January 2004 in Musicians and Gearheads
Hi there fellow musicians...After seeing a thread in teh porch i decided to post this one.Am I the only one who thinks that matt's playing doesn't fit the old pearl jam songs in which dave and jack played?I also think that his rhythm playing is much too strict for pj music...I think that he is a great drummer but for bands like soundgarden or maybe like queens of the stone age....My favorite pj drummer is Jack Irons by far...After him there's mr Abruzeese and then matt...And i really think that matt's reverse rhythms don't fit pj's songs...I prefer jack's style and it's influence on pj music in songs like Who You Are and In My Tree...Compare You Are to Who You Are and I think u will understand what I mean!!!!
"You stay classy San Diego" Ron Burgundy
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  • i don't know if he doesn't fit but i like dave and jack better. i have a boot called aussie dynamos and dave just tears it up. i thought he was great.
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    well to clear up...aussie dynamos is from 95...and thats jack on drums....dave grohl plays on rockin in the free world though...

    i dont liek jack, he codlnt go a ful lconcert..he was weak, hardly rocked...

    he did sound good on animal and a couple songs...

    other than that, matt cameron is fucking amazing..and fits pearl jam perfectly...
  • my mistake i thought it was dave on there. the songs sound a little faster paced so i guess i just assumed it was dave. he always seemed to be up beat.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Jack was my favorite drummer, but he did have problems... when he was on top of his game, he was a fucking amazing drummer, with a very intuitive touch that just fleshed out a lot of things in the song structure. But he also had problems going the distance, lasting through a show... it got worse over the tours...

    I still think that Yield is the best overall album of theirs, and that the drumming on Yield is the best PJ drumming ever. Jack's drumming made that album what it was...

    Matt's drumming is a little too technical, I think. Pearl Jam used to have that looseness, a connected sort of chaos, where the songs were always together but just on the verge of falling apart. Matt is too consistent, too driving sometimes. He's gotten a TON better in the last two or three years... Riot Act and the subsequent tour showed him a lot more comfortable with the material. He sat back a lot more, let the songs flow a little better. On a lot of stuff before, it seemed like he was choking the songs with his tempos. Especially the trademark Jack Irons beats... Given to Fly, In My Tree, etc. Now he's started using the "less is more" approach that Jack pulled off so well.

    One big footnote: I'm glad Matt is on board... he's consistent, dedicated, and has some serious stamina. He's filled in with enthusiasm and grace, and he's very involved in the writing and composition of songs. He's a great member, and while I pine for Jack sometimes, Matt is always on top of his game. Yea Matt!
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • I don't notice the drums much in the songs except where they are right in ur face like in those no code songs.

    I wish dave grohl would have ended up with PJ. I'm sure it almost happened a few times over the years. He has so much energy and punch. I notice the quality of the drums on vitalogy but that is more the songs themselves. Like last exit. That is quite the drum drivin song.

    I wonder if Dave Grohl and Eddie get along.
    What i would pay to be a fly on the wall and witness a conversation between the 2. I wonder if Dave gets serious around ed.
    Like ed has that thing where you can see everyone getting all sincere when talking to him. I imagine there are alot of honest conversations in EV's life.

    But anyway whatever they would talk about...wouldn't I like to know.
    I miss you already, I miss you always
    I miss you already, I miss you all day
  • mogwaimogwai Posts: 141
    Matt's drumming is a little too technical, I think. Pearl Jam used to have that looseness, a connected sort of chaos, where the songs were always together but just on the verge of falling apart. Matt is too consistent, too driving sometimes. He's gotten a TON better in the last two or three years... Riot Act and the subsequent tour showed him a lot more comfortable with the material. He sat back a lot more, let the songs flow a little better. On a lot of stuff before, it seemed like he was choking the songs with his tempos. Especially the trademark Jack Irons beats... Given to Fly, In My Tree, etc. Now he's started using the "less is more" approach that Jack pulled off so well.


    I totally agree with you MIG...My only disagreement is that I think that the best PJ drumming ever is the one lying in no code!!!But what i think about pj's looseness is that matt has taken it all away...He is too technical and strict rhythm player...His playing is the best for bands like soundgarden,tool etc where you can find many reverse rhythm parts etc...Don't forget that his playing evolved while playing in Soundgarden.I admire him for beeing a professional but i can't forget Jack's or even Abruzeezes' playing!!!I believe that the one that enjoys Matt's playing less is Jeff who is the main responsible for the loosenes they used to have
    "You stay classy San Diego" Ron Burgundy
  • anOmisanOmis Posts: 223
    Originally posted by MissYouAllDay
    I don't notice the drums much in the songs except where they are right in ur face like in those no code songs.

    I wish dave grohl would have ended up with PJ. I'm sure it almost happened a few times over the years. He has so much energy and punch. I notice the quality of the drums on vitalogy but that is more the songs themselves. Like last exit. That is quite the drum drivin song.

    I wonder if Dave Grohl and Eddie get along.
    What i would pay to be a fly on the wall and witness a conversation between the 2. I wonder if Dave gets serious around ed.
    Like ed has that thing where you can see everyone getting all sincere when talking to him. I imagine there are alot of honest conversations in EV's life.

    But anyway whatever they would talk about...wouldn't I like to know.

    perfect said!!
    ~~dont mind yer make up, just make up yer mind~~

    ~~its better to be hated for who you are than be loved for who you are not~~

    F.ZAPPA
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I like Matt a lot personally I love technical drumming. At the same time I love power.

    It'd be cool if they got Zac Starkey and maybe Dave Grohl to guest on a new album just to get some really hard hitting stuff too along with matt or maybe even have multiple drum parts ala WMA

    Matt brings more to the band than just clean crisp drumming as well the guy writes great music. The band itself has mellowed in their age and Matt suits the new style as well as any. Jack Irons can't really stand to tour anymore but he's a great drummer too.

    I'm happy with Matt.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Don't suppose our opinions will change anything but watch RVM and Not For You on SNL and it shows that Dave was by far the best drummer they've had. Just raw and aggressive. I miss that style when i see Matt drum on RVM, not the same.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Nope... Jammer preference for drummers is sorta predetermined at birth.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    i think pearl jam are one of the least tight bands out there...in ym opinion, they are perfectly tight...

    and i disagree about jeff thinking hes the onyl one who doesnt like matt...bullshit!

    i have an interview.backstage at pinkpop 2000....jeff talks about how amazing it is having him in the band, and what an amazing drummer matt is... and he finishes by saing

    "sometimes you just have to get on the matt cameron train and ride it"

    ya baby...

    dave was a great drummer, but he sounded like shit on any slow song...horrible, nothing man is disgusting, and so was ledbetter i thought...
    ya he kicked ass on ten and vs...

    on vitalogy dave didnt do anything...listen to NOT FOR YOu on SNL then listen to it on vitology..what the hell was he thinking???? where were ou at dave?? why did he change it?

    anyways. jack irons just wasnt strong, he had a great groove but coudltn keep up, alot of power was lost in pearl jams show...he sounds fine ont he albums, and i think y ield is my favorite next to riot act...

    and ill agree that cameron sometimes takes away fromt he songs as well...animal doesnt sound that great...

    but shit, corduroy is better than it ever has, even flow the same...and eveyr other song...matt cameron is fucking an amazing drummer, great song writer..and a sweet ass singer to if you ask me...

    all opinion but....i hate it when people rather have jack irons then matt cameron...
    after listening to jack ont he santa barbara show in between matt cameron...im so fuckign thankful for cameron and not jack irons...
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by 62strat
    i hate it when people rather have jack irons then matt cameron...
    after listening to jack ont he santa barbara show in between matt cameron...im so fuckign thankful for cameron and not jack irons...

    I agree with you 100% on the live show, but I wish Jack could drum the albums (or even just half the albums) and Matt could take over on tour.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    ha, that would be pretty funny...

    i have a feeling if cameron drummed on yield...it owould sound even better...

    the production the last two albums havent been as good as yield..theyve been awesome, just different..alot thicker and i dont know how to explain it....but yields production os fucking perfect..and that makes jack irons sound alot better...if you ask me.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    I don't think that's the full explaination... although I agree with you totally on comparing production values.

    Jack just had a touch, a feel... it was signature, impossible to replicate, and it let the songs on that album breathe, for lack of a better term.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    perhaps yorue right....



    but lets be honest about do the evolution......


    matt cameron takes that song to awhole nother level...

    and he does a damn good job on the rest of them...except fiathfull, thats the only one that really doesnt groove the same...but it rocks harder now...
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    No, the trump card is Given to Fly. Jack OWNED that song.

    But for the rest of it... we'll just have to agree to disagree.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    ah i see...scotting around the real issue here which is do the evolution??
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by 62strat
    ah i see...scotting around the real issue here which is do the evolution??

    I would say, it's like they're two different songs...

    Or like a self-cover song, where it's essentially the same song, but a different vibe.

    I like the new version, but my love for Jack's studio drumming is unadulterated.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • anything that touches pearl jam turns to gold, so even so if different its great i enjoyed both or all the drummers! but please no more change except having boom join, i fall in love with the members then a new one joins whom i will welcome with loving arms but its always sad to see one go away:( but i love ya matt:)
    whats good for the goose is good for the gander
  • im so glad that dave grohl didnt join pj. matts songwriting and drumming have taken the band on to a completely new level of musical ability and creativity. dave grohls style wouldn't fit pj at all, and his songwriting is , although good, nowhere near pearl jam standard. at the end of the day matt is the original pj drummer, he was drumming for them before dave krusen, and i agree with eddie vedder in the lost dogs sleeve, matt cameron is the best drummer in the world. ill admit, he did overplay a bit at first but i think he was trying to establish himself in the band and win over the hearts of fans by showing his abilities.

    im in a band myself (http://www.gatefoldonline.co.uk), and know quite a few drummers, none of which liked pearl jam at all untill matt cameron joined. i think that stuff pearl jam did with jack is good but probably the worst stuff they've recorded drum wise. if jack hadnt been such good friends with eddie i dont think he would have been in pearl jam, because i dont think he's a good enough drummer, and i know a lot of drummers that feel the same.

    matt rocks!
  • mogwaimogwai Posts: 141
    Mr 62Strat It isn't Dave Abruzeese playing in Ten....It's Dave Kruesen...
    "You stay classy San Diego" Ron Burgundy
  • duggroduggro Posts: 1,343
    man, matt cameron is the best drummer pearl jam has had. whats the deal with people saying he is "too technical" thats just such a weird thing to say?!

    he is technically good at what he plays and that only makes the music better. his live performance is also phenomenal and equalled by no other pearl jam drummer in terms of ability or stamina.

    jack irons' playing on albums was weak and frequently poor in my opinion with his patterns between toms and bass drum leaving A LOT to be desired. he just didnt fit the band in terms of look, sound or feel either.

    and also, it was dave Abbruzzese who did the drumming on animal, not jack irons.

    it went:

    original demos- matt cameron
    ten: dave krusen
    vs and vitalogy: dave abbruzzese
    no code and yield: jack irons
    binaural, riot act, lost dogs etc: matt cameron
    Dublin Leeds Berlin Wembley
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by duggro
    man, matt cameron is the best drummer pearl jam has had. whats the deal with people saying he is "too technical" thats just such a weird thing to say?!

    he is technically good at what he plays and that only makes the music better. his live performance is also phenomenal and equalled by no other pearl jam drummer in terms of ability or stamina.

    jack irons' playing on albums was weak and frequently poor in my opinion with his patterns between toms and bass drum leaving A LOT to be desired. he just didnt fit the band in terms of look, sound or feel either.

    and also, it was dave Abbruzzese who did the drumming on animal, not jack irons.

    it went:

    original demos- matt cameron
    ten: dave krusen
    vs and vitalogy: dave abbruzzese
    no code and yield: jack irons
    binaural, riot act, lost dogs etc: matt cameron

    To be fair, Lost Dogs was a little of everybody.

    And I disagree with your opinion.

    It's not absolute... it's like saying, "I like vanilla ice cream. Vanilla ice cream is the best ice cream ever, period." It's a matter of preference and opinion.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Matt is my favorite PJ drummer, but how could someone say that Yield would be better had Matt played on it? Ridiculous! Just watch Single Video Theory.
    "I'm George Bush and my son is an ass hole! Alleluiah!"
  • 62strat62strat Posts: 638
    Originally posted by mogwai
    Mr 62Strat It isn't Dave Abruzeese playing in Ten....It's Dave Kruesen...


    its been awhile since i read wha ti said, but i dont think i said dave abbruzzzese drummed on ten...

    i probably said something along hte lines of...uh his drumming for the ten songs...i just relate to the drumming on ten with live since krusen didnt tour much with them and basically dave a came in once ten was released...
  • duggroduggro Posts: 1,343
    well mccreadyisgod, why do you go on about matters of preference when all i said was "in my opinion". at no point did i say my view was "absolute". surely the whole point of this forum is to post opinions and express views?!

    thats my personal view. fair enough if you dont agree.
    Dublin Leeds Berlin Wembley
  • Clem68Clem68 Posts: 1
    Pearl jam is a Fucking amazing band and Matt is an Amazing Drummer...his fills and his rhythm fit into pearl jam's songs very well...well thats my opnion ne ways
  • My take on Pearl Jam--other than them being one of the greatest bands of all-time--is that they have always been about musical change and growth. Just think of the differences between songs on albums like Vs and then Riot Act, for instance. I think what will make them go down in history is that wide range of songwriting they've been able to create.

    To say that one album would have been better with a different drummer entirely destroys what makes PJ better than everyone else. The change in drummers has helped them not necessarily change their style, but probably more allowed them to write in different ways or use songs that might not have been playable before.

    As a drummer, it's hard to argue against Cameron: the guy is simply too awesome. But so was Jack, in his own way, which was excellent for Mirror Ball, No Code, and Yield. He added a sort of punk thing to those albums that Matt proabably would not have added. But then look at Binaural: a song like Grievance would never have come out like it did if someone other than Matt had played on it.

    They're doing the evolution, baby.
  • quote from mccreadyisgod "To be fair, Lost Dogs was a little of everybody.

    And I disagree with your opinion.

    It's not absolute... it's like saying, "I like vanilla ice cream. Vanilla ice cream is the best ice cream ever, period." It's a matter of preference and opinion"

    perfectly stated. it is an opinion not a mathimatical fact. everyone likes different things. i like the fact that we have so many different styles to listen too. pearl jam is one band that has put out several different albums that are unique in there own way. ac/dc is more of a heard one heard them all type but with pj it's a whole new experience with each album.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by alowishis
    ac/dc is more of a heard one heard them all type but with pj it's a whole new experience with each album.

    Hey, you didn't just go knocking AC/DC, did you? I mean, come on... Phil Rudd is a drumming genius!
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
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