Just a quick observation. How come no guitars or amps are ever sold at full price? Everything is always way discounted. Not that I'm complaining but it just seems that the deals are rarely ever deals they're just what they go for.
Just a quick observation. How come no guitars or amps are ever sold at full price? Everything is always way discounted. Not that I'm complaining but it just seems that the deals are rarely ever deals they're just what they go for.
Anyone here ever bought something at list price?
not anymore. GC and MF and online dealers fixed that. It used to be, that you walk into the store and everything is MSRP. Well GC sells everything at near 35% off list, that is supposed to take the haggling out of the situation, (yeah right that's why I couldn't make a living selling guitars)
Essentially they want you to feel like you are getting a good deal and are warm and fuzzy inside about your purchase. That's why.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
not anymore. GC and MF and online dealers fixed that. It used to be, that you walk into the store and everything is MSRP. Well GC sells everything at near 35% off list, that is supposed to take the haggling out of the situation, (yeah right that's why I couldn't make a living selling guitars)
Essentially they want you to feel like you are getting a good deal and are warm and fuzzy inside about your purchase. That's why.
Yeah, good point. I guess the internet and large dealers are the reason. Well, its good you dont have to haggle anymore but its a shame for small dealers. It's gotta be hard when you cant match the profit margins.
I got up at six in the morn' to go to a Guitar Center labor day or memorial day clearance sale -- got a Gibson Les Paul Studio for $700 and it's been rockin for 10 years now.... I may one day update the tuners to chrome, but it's been a workhorse...
On the other hand, I played a gazillion acoustics, researched 'em up and down and then finally bought a Martin D1 from Musicians Friend, better price than ordering through any guitar stores cause nobody had 'em, hadda pay to get it set up right (i get all nervous tweaking on guitars), but now it's been rockin ever since...
After starting with a used "West Paul" a few Kramers and a used strat, i'm an old man who likes that shiny new car smell on my guitars now. THEY'RE MINE!!! MINE MINE MINE!
I just bought an epiphone les paul standard, and it's a pretty sweet guitar, especially for the price. If I were you, I'd save a couple hundred bucks and just go with the standard. Sure you can buy a different used guitar for the same price, but nothing beats having that nice, new shiny guitar in your hands.
Yeah, good point. I guess the internet and large dealers are the reason. Well, its good you dont have to haggle anymore but its a shame for small dealers. It's gotta be hard when you cant match the profit margins.
not at all, they specialize, GC is wal-mart. Well ok, they struggle but they make it. The more people get into stuff the more they crave high end gear. Now GC has some expensive stuff sure, but it dosen't move in most of their locations because pro's don't want to buy a 8K guitar with a crack in the top or some 8 year olds prints. That, and the high end small stores carry more high end stuff even all high end and "vintage" (read cool stuff) for the most part in many of the stores I go to.
Now Gibson, has made a consious decision to screw over those small dealers, so until they decide to drop the ridiculous demands they are making, small dealers will no longer sell thier guitars. That's fine, especially when the majority of your sales are Suhr, Anderson, Mcinturff, PRS, and say Fender Custom Shop etc. etc. A lot of the guys that come in and buy one of those are trading in a Gibson or Fender what have you so stores always have plenty of used ones on the wall too, and they can always go to auctions, and EBay what have you to find units they can move. As long as people support thier local stores and buy maybe non mainstream if you want to call it Boutique gear fine, small shops will be ok, especially ones that do lots of lessons.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
not at all, they specialize, GC is wal-mart. Well ok, they struggle but they make it. The more people get into stuff the more they crave high end gear. Now GC has some expensive stuff sure, but it dosen't move in most of their locations because pro's don't want to buy a 8K guitar with a crack in the top or some 8 year olds prints. That, and the high end small stores carry more high end stuff even all high end and "vintage" (read cool stuff) for the most part in many of the stores I go to.
Now Gibson, has made a consious decision to screw over those small dealers, so until they decide to drop the ridiculous demands they are making, small dealers will no longer sell thier guitars. That's fine, especially when the majority of your sales are Suhr, Anderson, Mcinturff, PRS, and say Fender Custom Shop etc. etc. A lot of the guys that come in and buy one of those are trading in a Gibson or Fender what have you so stores always have plenty of used ones on the wall too, and they can always go to auctions, and EBay what have you to find units they can move. As long as people support thier local stores and buy maybe non mainstream if you want to call it Boutique gear fine, small shops will be ok, especially ones that do lots of lessons.
The amount of product GC, Walmart and Costco order dwarf the other guys, including Sweetwater, MF, etc...
GC in 2005 had 1.4 Billion in revenue, so they can afford to give the stuff away and still make a profit. Basically, the GC wholesale price is much lower then the next guy due to the amount they buy. So the next guy has no chance when it comes to a price vs price purchase. The little guy has to beat them on trade in value, customer service, hours and set up.
GC has settled more lawsuits out of court then you can shake a stick at!
GC has a class action suit in court now that they are probably not going to win! The case demonstrates many violations, check it out online at any lawyer site.
Walmart will not haggle, but Costco will and they sell the high end stuff
Gibson is just trying to hand cuff the small dealers because they can't order the amount of guitars they need to in order to compete with Gibson's best customers. It really is not a favortism thing, it is just business. Buy 10,000 guitars and Gibson will let you do what you want
I have no problem with the Gibson rules as a buyer, why?
Most people who are into Gibson high end know it is a competition to not only locate the good stuff, but to then get a good price on it. By not allowing the liitle guys to advertise I can call them up and find out what they have by sweet talking them. There is always something sleeping in a corner. Always something coming in. Most people are lazy!!!!!!
Things have changed, the globalization in the economy has changed the markets that have the cash to buy things like guitars. If Gibson didn't have rules, all the US guitars would be bought by the Japanese and you guys would have nothing to even look at.
I suggest you look at the bittersweet side to this and stop complaining, it is not going to go back to the old days, in fact it is going to get worse!
The smaller boutique builders will have the same restrictions soon enough. Some of these guys wont sell a guitar to you unless they get DNA first LOL
At the end of all of this you do have the option to buy used and if you really hate corporate America then buy used, but I have news for you, most companies are GOOD! Don't believe the hype.
WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
The only Forum for players by players.......
Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
BJF powers my Pedal Board
The amount of product GC, Walmart and Costco order dwarf the other guys, including Sweetwater, MF, etc...
GC in 2005 had 1.4 Billion in revenue, so they can afford to give the stuff away and still make a profit. Basically, the GC wholesale price is much lower then the next guy due to the amount they buy. So the next guy has no chance when it comes to a price vs price purchase. The little guy has to beat them on trade in value, customer service, hours and set up.
GC has settled more lawsuits out of court then you can shake a stick at!
GC has a class action suit in court now that they are probably not going to win! The case demonstrates many violations, check it out online at any lawyer site.
Walmart will not haggle, but Costco will and they sell the high end stuff
Gibson is just trying to hand cuff the small dealers because they can't order the amount of guitars they need to in order to compete with Gibson's best customers. It really is not a favortism thing, it is just business. Buy 10,000 guitars and Gibson will let you do what you want
I have no problem with the Gibson rules as a buyer, why?
Most people who are into Gibson high end know it is a competition to not only locate the good stuff, but to then get a good price on it. By not allowing the liitle guys to advertise I can call them up and find out what they have by sweet talking them. There is always something sleeping in a corner. Always something coming in. Most people are lazy!!!!!!
Things have changed, the globalization in the economy has changed the markets that have the cash to buy things like guitars. If Gibson didn't have rules, all the US guitars would be bought by the Japanese and you guys would have nothing to even look at.
I suggest you look at the bittersweet side to this and stop complaining, it is not going to go back to the old days, in fact it is going to get worse!
The smaller boutique builders will have the same restrictions soon enough. Some of these guys wont sell a guitar to you unless they get DNA first LOL
At the end of all of this you do have the option to buy used and if you really hate corporate America then buy used, but I have news for you, most companies are GOOD! Don't believe the hype.
Oh I agree with a lot of that, I have beef with gibson for a variety of reasons somewhat unrelated to the price, but then go to my house and there's a Les Paul right there. I just think gibson or no gibson small dealers can still do ok in the right market. LA, Atlanta, Chicago, NY, Nashville They'll do ok. I don't want it to go back to the old days either where you can't walk into a store and play anything and you have to haggle for 30% off list. Believe me I know how it works. I understand it from both sides.
You're absolutely correct, if you've got the savvy and the change, you'll be able to locate the good stuff and get a good price on it, most music buyers are somewhat lazy anyway. Not only that, most people aren't serious. If you develop a good relationship with a few guys, they'll set stuff aside for you, I know, because I did it. My friends still work at GC so I buy most stuff from there anyway and the local shop near work. The other store has crappy hours and it's too far away so I don't make it there very often. I understand that it's just business, I love lots of gibson guitars, I mean really if I had endless income I'd have a good old ES-125T, ES-335, PTSG, Murphy R9, (a gold top as beautiful as yours) and a J160E. I love Gibson but I understand why dealers who have been selling them for 60 years are pissed off they can no longer afford to offer them as long as I can still go to GC and find them it doesn't bother me as a consumer, I just wish GC was into buying stuff I wanted, unfortunately my stuff isn't cool right now.
Believe me I'm not entirely anti corporation, just anti corporate bullshit and I don't like substituting poplar sides on what is supposed to be a 5 ply maple guitar
Hell if I had my way we'd already be under the fair tax system.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
Oh I agree with a lot of that, I have beef with gibson for a variety of reasons somewhat unrelated to the price, but then go to my house and there's a Les Paul right there. I just think gibson or no gibson small dealers can still do ok in the right market. LA, Atlanta, Chicago, NY, Nashville They'll do ok. I don't want it to go back to the old days either where you can't walk into a store and play anything and you have to haggle for 30% off list. Believe me I know how it works. I understand it from both sides.
You're absolutely correct, if you've got the savvy and the change, you'll be able to locate the good stuff and get a good price on it, most music buyers are somewhat lazy anyway. Not only that, most people aren't serious. If you develop a good relationship with a few guys, they'll set stuff aside for you, I know, because I did it. My friends still work at GC so I buy most stuff from there anyway and the local shop near work. The other store has crappy hours and it's too far away so I don't make it there very often. I understand that it's just business, I love lots of gibson guitars, I mean really if I had endless income I'd have a good old ES-125T, ES-335, PTSG, Murphy R9, (a gold top as beautiful as yours) and a J160E. I love Gibson but I understand why dealers who have been selling them for 60 years are pissed off they can no longer afford to offer them as long as I can still go to GC and find them it doesn't bother me as a consumer, I just wish GC was into buying stuff I wanted, unfortunately my stuff isn't cool right now.
Believe me I'm not entirely anti corporation, just anti corporate bullshit and I don't like substituting poplar sides on what is supposed to be a 5 ply maple guitar
Hell if I had my way we'd already be under the fair tax system.
I think many are about to get their wish with GC, stock price down 50%. Suit will pay out over 1B in damages, as we are talking about the RICO statute. I hear BestBuy is about to buy them!
WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
The only Forum for players by players.......
Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
BJF powers my Pedal Board
I think many are about to get their wish with GC, stock price down 50%. Suit will pay out over 1B in damages, as we are talking about the RICO statute. I hear BestBuy is about to buy them!
wow? seriously 1 Billion? what is the suit about?
GC is a good general store especially when people get paid on commission because they actually had to train people and or hire people who knew what they were talking about. Please NOT BEST BUY?!!! Best Buy is only medium to low end anyway and none of their people know anything beyond the product description. That sucks. GC may turn into Mars, that means finding the rare Eternity or Baby Blue in the effects counter may go the way of the dodo and everything will be Boss and Digitech.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
GC is a good general store especially when people get paid on commission because they actually had to train people and or hire people who knew what they were talking about. Please NOT BEST BUY?!!! Best Buy is only medium to low end anyway and none of their people know anything beyond the product description. That sucks. GC may turn into Mars, that means finding the rare Eternity or Baby Blue in the effects counter may go the way of the dodo and everything will be Boss and Digitech.
Just Google, GC Class Action Law Suit RICO
You'll find it
Should be any day now, and yes the BB purchase seems to be legit.
WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
The only Forum for players by players.......
Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
BJF powers my Pedal Board
IMO, nothing beats a regular sunburst standard with a nice flame.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Comments
Anyone here ever bought something at list price?
not anymore. GC and MF and online dealers fixed that. It used to be, that you walk into the store and everything is MSRP. Well GC sells everything at near 35% off list, that is supposed to take the haggling out of the situation, (yeah right that's why I couldn't make a living selling guitars)
Essentially they want you to feel like you are getting a good deal and are warm and fuzzy inside about your purchase. That's why.
Here's an example:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/msg/187436851.html
Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
__________________________________
Yeah, good point. I guess the internet and large dealers are the reason. Well, its good you dont have to haggle anymore but its a shame for small dealers. It's gotta be hard when you cant match the profit margins.
thanks. cool stuff. i'm going to check out the local dealer and see if i like the sound and feel of them.
On the other hand, I played a gazillion acoustics, researched 'em up and down and then finally bought a Martin D1 from Musicians Friend, better price than ordering through any guitar stores cause nobody had 'em, hadda pay to get it set up right (i get all nervous tweaking on guitars), but now it's been rockin ever since...
After starting with a used "West Paul" a few Kramers and a used strat, i'm an old man who likes that shiny new car smell on my guitars now. THEY'RE MINE!!! MINE MINE MINE!
not at all, they specialize, GC is wal-mart. Well ok, they struggle but they make it. The more people get into stuff the more they crave high end gear. Now GC has some expensive stuff sure, but it dosen't move in most of their locations because pro's don't want to buy a 8K guitar with a crack in the top or some 8 year olds prints. That, and the high end small stores carry more high end stuff even all high end and "vintage" (read cool stuff) for the most part in many of the stores I go to.
Now Gibson, has made a consious decision to screw over those small dealers, so until they decide to drop the ridiculous demands they are making, small dealers will no longer sell thier guitars. That's fine, especially when the majority of your sales are Suhr, Anderson, Mcinturff, PRS, and say Fender Custom Shop etc. etc. A lot of the guys that come in and buy one of those are trading in a Gibson or Fender what have you so stores always have plenty of used ones on the wall too, and they can always go to auctions, and EBay what have you to find units they can move. As long as people support thier local stores and buy maybe non mainstream if you want to call it Boutique gear fine, small shops will be ok, especially ones that do lots of lessons.
The amount of product GC, Walmart and Costco order dwarf the other guys, including Sweetwater, MF, etc...
GC in 2005 had 1.4 Billion in revenue, so they can afford to give the stuff away and still make a profit. Basically, the GC wholesale price is much lower then the next guy due to the amount they buy. So the next guy has no chance when it comes to a price vs price purchase. The little guy has to beat them on trade in value, customer service, hours and set up.
GC has settled more lawsuits out of court then you can shake a stick at!
GC has a class action suit in court now that they are probably not going to win! The case demonstrates many violations, check it out online at any lawyer site.
Walmart will not haggle, but Costco will and they sell the high end stuff
Gibson is just trying to hand cuff the small dealers because they can't order the amount of guitars they need to in order to compete with Gibson's best customers. It really is not a favortism thing, it is just business. Buy 10,000 guitars and Gibson will let you do what you want
I have no problem with the Gibson rules as a buyer, why?
Most people who are into Gibson high end know it is a competition to not only locate the good stuff, but to then get a good price on it. By not allowing the liitle guys to advertise I can call them up and find out what they have by sweet talking them. There is always something sleeping in a corner. Always something coming in. Most people are lazy!!!!!!
Things have changed, the globalization in the economy has changed the markets that have the cash to buy things like guitars. If Gibson didn't have rules, all the US guitars would be bought by the Japanese and you guys would have nothing to even look at.
I suggest you look at the bittersweet side to this and stop complaining, it is not going to go back to the old days, in fact it is going to get worse!
The smaller boutique builders will have the same restrictions soon enough. Some of these guys wont sell a guitar to you unless they get DNA first LOL
At the end of all of this you do have the option to buy used and if you really hate corporate America then buy used, but I have news for you, most companies are GOOD! Don't believe the hype.
Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
The only Forum for players by players.......
Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
BJF powers my Pedal Board
Oh I agree with a lot of that, I have beef with gibson for a variety of reasons somewhat unrelated to the price, but then go to my house and there's a Les Paul right there. I just think gibson or no gibson small dealers can still do ok in the right market. LA, Atlanta, Chicago, NY, Nashville They'll do ok. I don't want it to go back to the old days either where you can't walk into a store and play anything and you have to haggle for 30% off list. Believe me I know how it works. I understand it from both sides.
You're absolutely correct, if you've got the savvy and the change, you'll be able to locate the good stuff and get a good price on it, most music buyers are somewhat lazy anyway. Not only that, most people aren't serious. If you develop a good relationship with a few guys, they'll set stuff aside for you, I know, because I did it. My friends still work at GC so I buy most stuff from there anyway and the local shop near work. The other store has crappy hours and it's too far away so I don't make it there very often. I understand that it's just business, I love lots of gibson guitars, I mean really if I had endless income I'd have a good old ES-125T, ES-335, PTSG, Murphy R9, (a gold top as beautiful as yours) and a J160E. I love Gibson but I understand why dealers who have been selling them for 60 years are pissed off they can no longer afford to offer them as long as I can still go to GC and find them it doesn't bother me as a consumer, I just wish GC was into buying stuff I wanted, unfortunately my stuff isn't cool right now.
Believe me I'm not entirely anti corporation, just anti corporate bullshit and I don't like substituting poplar sides on what is supposed to be a 5 ply maple guitar
Hell if I had my way we'd already be under the fair tax system.
and almost separated my shoulder.
I think many are about to get their wish with GC, stock price down 50%. Suit will pay out over 1B in damages, as we are talking about the RICO statute. I hear BestBuy is about to buy them!
Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
The only Forum for players by players.......
Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
BJF powers my Pedal Board
wow? seriously 1 Billion? what is the suit about?
GC is a good general store especially when people get paid on commission because they actually had to train people and or hire people who knew what they were talking about. Please NOT BEST BUY?!!! Best Buy is only medium to low end anyway and none of their people know anything beyond the product description. That sucks. GC may turn into Mars, that means finding the rare Eternity or Baby Blue in the effects counter may go the way of the dodo and everything will be Boss and Digitech.
Just Google, GC Class Action Law Suit RICO
You'll find it
Should be any day now, and yes the BB purchase seems to be legit.
Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
The only Forum for players by players.......
Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
BJF powers my Pedal Board
and ask him if he's selling his amps as well. Maybe he'll cut you a deal...
hahah it looks like someone tried to polish the finish with acid.
I heart James Trussart. I want one so bad.
http://topguitars.info/images/stories/electric-guitars/gibson_electric_guitars/xxl_gibson_lp_swampashst_naturalsatin.jpg
I would change those volume knobs, but I played this a few weeks ago and loved it.
"Sorry is the fool who trades his love for high-rise rent, Seems the more you make equals the loneliness you get"
.NJD.