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Help with choosing Les Pauls

SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
edited August 2006 in Musicians and Gearheads
Hi guys,

I'm in the market for an Ephiphone Les Paul because the Gibsons cost more than my car. However, I'm stuck between 2 models:

The Epiphone Standard Les Paul: $400
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-Plain-Top?sku=517413

or

The Epiphone Les Paul Black Beauty 3: $700
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/product/reviews?base_pid=518340&g=guitar&page=4&rpp=10

I've been in stores and I like the sound of the standard, but I can't find any stores that carry the Epiphone Black Beauty 3. I want to know if there is a difference in the quality and playability of the guitar as well as if the extra pickup is worth the price bump because I can't play it for myself because I've been unable to find one.

If anyone here is knowledgeable with Gibsons or Epiphones and could give me their 2 cents on this dilemma or another reccomendation in regards to Epiphone Les Pauls I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks guys.
"I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

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Comments

  • moemoe6434moemoe6434 Posts: 467
    the 3rd pickup sucks for me, it is always in the way for my strumming style. i also can not believe that 3 large humbucker sized holes do not effect the tone of the instrument by cutting through the maple cap which makes the guitar more bright, snappy, and articulate and taking out part of the mahogany which will effect the sustain.


    that is my experience anyway
    "If she don't love me no more, i know her sister will" Jimi Hendrix
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    I don't like the 3rd pickup in the Black Beauty. Is there any chance you can stretch your budget and get an elitist?
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    keeponrockin wrote:
    I don't like the 3rd pickup in the Black Beauty. Is there any chance you can stretch your budget and get an elitist?

    I just checked that out and it's a tad out of my pricerange. I'd like to stay below 700 dollars but if something is like a dramatic improvement around 800ish then I might stretch it, but above that its just too much.

    Wow so that third pickup is a bit of a bitch, eh? Do you mean that it doesn't have a good sound or is it just in the way when playing?
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • Dirty_FrankDirty_Frank Posts: 957
    Just the regular Les Paul Custom is a nice guitar as well. I've been using one for years.
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    Fortunate Sean wrote:
    I just checked that out and it's a tad out of my pricerange. I'd like to stay below 700 dollars but if something is like a dramatic improvement around 800ish then I might stretch it, but above that its just too much.

    Wow so that third pickup is a bit of a bitch, eh? Do you mean that it doesn't have a good sound or is it just in the way when playing?

    It's in the way when your playing. I love the Epi Custom in white, fantastic guitar. Don't be afraid to go used either.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Dirty_FrankDirty_Frank Posts: 957
    There's also some Japanese Les Paul copies that are out there that rival, and sometime exceed the quality of Gibson. Serious lawsuit models like those made my Edwards or Tokai.

    Edwards are made by ESP in Japan.

    For example:

    This Les Paul custom will be leaps and freakin' bounds better than the Epiphone version

    http://cgi.ebay.com/EDWARDS-Les-Paul-Custom-Black-finish-mint_W0QQitemZ270013615221QQihZ017QQcategoryZ38086QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    keeponrockin wrote:
    It's in the way when your playing. I love the Epi Custom in white, fantastic guitar. Don't be afraid to go used either.

    Yeah I've noticed they have so many guitars with different looks for different prices yet they seem to have the same specs. The white or black les paul looks sharp, but then there are so many other versions: flametop, quilt top, gold top, etc...

    Are they all the same guitar but just a different shell or do they play different?
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    Scour the earth for an Epiphone Elitist les paul...so close to the real deal, that Gibson has pulled the plug on 'em :)
    new music: http://www.myspace.com/blackbirdsymphonique

    old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
  • Pearl Jam and toastPearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    Epi les pauls are pretty nice and great for the money. Almost everyone who has one loves it (myself among them) :)
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Epiphone-Elitist-Les-Paul-Standard-w-OHSC_W0QQitemZ110016279227QQihZ001QQcategoryZ33037QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    These are great. The Epiphone Elitist Les Paul. I bought one to play around with and it basically is as close to a Gibson as you can get. The maple top is the same thickness, neck and quality are right on. The finish is thicker Poly than the nitrocellulose on a Gibson, too, but it sounds as good as my Gibson!
    You can find them on Ebay for around $700 plus or minus. I put a Bigsby on mine and threw some Lindy Fralin pickups for the sound I wanted, but the original was great.


    Also, Tokai, like said above, and look into Heritage guitars. Made in the old Gibson Plant in Michigan by the old employees. They are great, and you may be able to pick one up used around that price.
    They have great pickups as stock, and they come with the tuners that people that by a brand new Les Paul want!
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
    __________________________________
  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    who's_pearljam? wrote:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Epiphone-Elitist-Les-Paul-Standard-w-OHSC_W0QQitemZ110016279227QQihZ001QQcategoryZ33037QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    These are great. The Epiphone Elitist Les Paul. I bought one to play around with and it basically is as close to a Gibson as you can get. The maple top is the same thickness, neck and quality are right on. The finish is thicker Poly than the nitrocellulose on a Gibson, too, but it sounds as good as my Gibson!
    You can find them on Ebay for around $700 plus or minus. I put a Bigsby on mine and threw some Lindy Fralin pickups for the sound I wanted, but the original was great.


    Also, Tokai, like said above, and look into Heritage guitars. Made in the old Gibson Plant in Michigan by the old employees. They are great, and you may be able to pick one up used around that price.
    They have great pickups as stock, and they come with the tuners that people that by a brand new Les Paul want!

    Yeah I like that suggestion but I get scared with eBay because I've heard a bunch of horror stories of people being able to alter the guitars so they look like Gibsons but are in fact pieces of crap which they peddle off as used/vintage. And I'm not good with knowing what specs qualify it as official gear, so I'd just get scared that someone took a crap guitar and put a Gibson head on it. Any way to really know for sure?
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • brain of cbrain of c Posts: 5,213
    Fortunate Sean wrote:
    Hi guys,

    I'm in the market for an Ephiphone Les Paul because the Gibsons cost more than my car. However, I'm stuck between 2 models:

    The Epiphone Standard Les Paul: $400
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-Plain-Top?sku=517413

    or

    The Epiphone Les Paul Black Beauty 3: $700
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/product/reviews?base_pid=518340&g=guitar&page=4&rpp=10

    I've been in stores and I like the sound of the standard, but I can't find any stores that carry the Epiphone Black Beauty 3. I want to know if there is a difference in the quality and playability of the guitar as well as if the extra pickup is worth the price bump because I can't play it for myself because I've been unable to find one.

    If anyone here is knowledgeable with Gibsons or Epiphones and could give me their 2 cents on this dilemma or another reccomendation in regards to Epiphone Les Pauls I would greatly appreciate it.

    Thanks guys.


    what.......do you have a flintstone car?
    d'oh!!!!!!

    http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    brain of c wrote:
    what.......do you have a flintstone car?

    Nope. A purple/redish 1987 Mercury Cougar with wood boards holding up the front seat.

    Blue Book Value: $4.62
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • enharmonicenharmonic Posts: 1,917
    A used Heritage will generally be a higher quality instrument at the same price point. Plus, they're PLEK'd. That's the good stuff right there :)
    new music: http://www.myspace.com/blackbirdsymphonique

    old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
  • who's_pearljam?who's_pearljam? Posts: 2,104
    Fortunate Sean wrote:
    Yeah I like that suggestion but I get scared with eBay because I've heard a bunch of horror stories of people being able to alter the guitars so they look like Gibsons but are in fact pieces of crap which they peddle off as used/vintage. And I'm not good with knowing what specs qualify it as official gear, so I'd just get scared that someone took a crap guitar and put a Gibson head on it. Any way to really know for sure?

    If you're new at guitars, then you probably are better off trying to find one in a music store or out of a local paper or even Craig's List. I've bought some off E-bay and some haven't been up to what they said, but really it was more wear related, or switches worn or funky. I can fix that stuff.

    I really recommend sitting and playing them and getting the feel of the instrument. The neck is very important. It has to fit your hands. If you have long fingers, then the old style baseball bat necks are usually more comfortable, but if your fingers are short, you won't be playing much because your hands aren't going to like it!
    If the guitar feels good, and has a solid feel, you can always play with the pickups or change them down the line. There is a bit of "mojo" to a guitar, too. Sometimes they just speak to you!!

    If you DO try one off E-bay, make sure the seller has good feedback, and ask some pointed questions, too. I know just as many people that bought fake Fenders in person as did off E-Bay, though. I would never buy an expensive vintage Fender off E-bay because they are SO simple to fake.
    I don't think as many will try to get you on a cheaper guitar, though. For the most part I don't think it would be worth it to do a snow job on somebody for a 700 dollar guitar!

    My favorite off brand Les Paul IS the Heritage. I have seen them on Craig's List in my area.

    If you see anything,,, post it here and get some input! :)
    Be kind, man
    Don't be mankind. ~Captain Beefheart
    __________________________________
  • NovawindNovawind Posts: 836
    Am I the only one who's not really a fan of Epi Les Pauls? I tried out my friends and the neck is just a little fatter than I like.
    If idle hands are the devil's workshop, he must not be very productive.

    7/9/06 LA 1
    7/10/06 LA 2
    10/21/06 Bridge 1
  • Pearl Jam and toastPearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    Novawind wrote:
    Am I the only one who's not really a fan of Epi Les Pauls? I tried out my friends and the neck is just a little fatter than I like.
    I've heard that before.

    Compared to my Strat it's definetly a bit on the fat side, but it still sounds great.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    are epiphone les paul standards and customs the same guitar aside from the looks? because i don't know if i want to drop a few hundred extra if its the same sound and setup but just looks prettier.
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    If you have your heart set on a LP and only have 700 bones, get the Heritage.
    Nothing will ever come close for the money.
    You could also buy used, check Ebay and local dealers. Labor day weekend is a very good time to walk into a chain with cash in hand and snatch up a guitar ;)
    Summer months are slow so don't look at the price tag, go negotiate!
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Drew263Drew263 Posts: 602
    Pearl Jam and toast wrote:
    Epi les pauls are pretty nice and great for the money. Almost everyone who has one loves it (myself among them) :)

    me too..mine (epi LP standard) is my 1st guitar and I love it.
  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    JofZ wrote:
    If you have your heart set on a LP and only have 700 bones, get the Heritage.
    Nothing will ever come close for the money.
    You could also buy used, check Ebay and local dealers. Labor day weekend is a very good time to walk into a chain with cash in hand and snatch up a guitar ;)
    Summer months are slow so don't look at the price tag, go negotiate!

    I keep trying to check out the catalogue on the site but its USELESS and the link keeps freezing up my computer whether I directly click it or save the file to my desktop, and since it doesn't offer too much help besides that its hard for me to check it out. I might have to take a trip a few towns over to a local dealer to check it out.
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Fortunate Sean wrote:
    I keep trying to check out the catalogue on the site but its USELESS and the link keeps freezing up my computer whether I directly click it or save the file to my desktop, and since it doesn't offer too much help besides that its hard for me to check it out. I might have to take a trip a few towns over to a local dealer to check it out.

    That is no fun!
    try this link:
    http://www.heritageguitar.com/models/H150CM.htm

    you want a H150CM it is a classic LP
    The 157 model is finished in black
    There are only 4 now in production the CM, CM UGLY, CM Classic and the 157.
    If the site wont come up for you, do a google, there are tons on the net for sale.
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Pearl Jam and toastPearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    Fortunate Sean wrote:
    are epiphone les paul standards and customs the same guitar aside from the looks? because i don't know if i want to drop a few hundred extra if its the same sound and setup but just looks prettier.
    essentially..

    i mean that's what they say..

    i have a studio and my friend has the standard (is that what you're talkign about?)... the difference is supposed to only be cosmetic but i swear his is higher quality in general.
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    JofZ wrote:
    That is no fun!
    try this link:
    http://www.heritageguitar.com/models/H150CM.htm

    you want a H150CM it is a classic LP
    The 157 model is finished in black
    There are only 4 now in production the CM, CM UGLY, CM Classic and the 157.
    If the site wont come up for you, do a google, there are tons on the net for sale.

    Yeah I can get that part up, but I'm trying to find some prices for it on the site. Is that possible? Or do you have to go to dealers and see their pricing on it?
    Pearl Jam and toast wrote:
    essentially..

    i mean that's what they say..

    i have a studio and my friend has the standard (is that what you're talkign about?)... the difference is supposed to only be cosmetic but i swear his is higher quality in general.
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    JofZ wrote:
    That is no fun!
    try this link:
    http://www.heritageguitar.com/models/H150CM.htm

    you want a H150CM it is a classic LP
    The 157 model is finished in black
    There are only 4 now in production the CM, CM UGLY, CM Classic and the 157.
    If the site wont come up for you, do a google, there are tons on the net for sale.

    Yeah I can get that part up, but I'm trying to find some prices for it on the site. Is that possible? Or do you have to go to dealers and see their pricing on it?
    Pearl Jam and toast wrote:
    essentially..

    i mean that's what they say..

    i have a studio and my friend has the standard (is that what you're talkign about?)... the difference is supposed to only be cosmetic but i swear his is higher quality in general.

    Well yeah I'm just comparing the standard vs. the custom, but I guess comparing it to studios might be the same thing because i know the studio just takes away the looks but keeps the sound, but it might just be the oppisite for customs where they have the same sound but inflate the price to make it look pretty, so I just wanted to know if anyone can confirm it, but I didn't even consider if the quality of the instrument is better if its standard vs. custom.
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Fortunate Sean wrote:
    Yeah I can get that part up, but I'm trying to find some prices for it on the site. Is that possible? Or do you have to go to dealers and see their pricing on it?



    Well yeah I'm just comparing the standard vs. the custom, but I guess comparing it to studios might be the same thing because i know the studio just takes away the looks but keeps the sound, but it might just be the oppisite for customs where they have the same sound but inflate the price to make it look pretty, so I just wanted to know if anyone can confirm it, but I didn't even consider if the quality of the instrument is better if its standard vs. custom.
    http://www.heritageguitar.com/dealers/qryDealer.asp
    There are a few IL dealers, call em up and cut a deal.
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • SKasak44SKasak44 Posts: 67
    JofZ wrote:
    http://www.heritageguitar.com/dealers/qryDealer.asp
    There are a few IL dealers, call em up and cut a deal.

    Yeah there is one right down the road from me. Any idea how much they should retail for? Its hard to take a bargaining stance if I have no idea how much they are worth in the first place.
    "I cant hear you, but i feel the things you say"

  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Fortunate Sean wrote:
    Yeah there is one right down the road from me. Any idea how much they should retail for? Its hard to take a bargaining stance if I have no idea how much they are worth in the first place.

    I see new ones advertised anywhere from 900-1500. Ask the suggested retail, best price and then walk in with cash and take it down another 20%. You should do fine. Also ask what they have used.
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • otterbeinjumperotterbeinjumper Posts: 13
    Hey man, I have one listed on ebay right now, its a mid 90's epi gold top les paul. Cool starter guitar that wont go for anything near what the new ones do.

    I also have a cherry burst epi paul standard if you are interested that i will sell.

    ebay has deals, you should be able to find an epi paul standard for around 250 in very good condition.

    consider a standard strat, I pick my strat over my gibson sg everyday. its easier to play and stays in tune longer. 200$ on ebay should get you a nice made in mexico strat.

    drop me a line if you have any questions.
  • otterbeinjumperotterbeinjumper Posts: 13
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&item=200011741254&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

    check it out, nothing special, but great tone!
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