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couple questions (amps & sound)

JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
edited December 2003 in Musicians and Gearheads
Hi guys,
I bought a Marchall 30DFX which I am returning. I wanted to know what you guys recomend for an all tube amp under 800 bucks?
Also, anyone know how to duplicate the smashing pumpkins feedback?
Thanks a bunch,
JZ
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Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
BJF powers my Pedal Board
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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    oh wow dude. this could go in a billion directions.


    The Smashing Pumpkins used The Electro Harmonix Big Muff and Small Stone phaser on Siamese Dream the most common sound that SP fans are looking to emulate.

    I would suggest you look into Peavy, (Classic 50, Triple X models)

    Marshall DSL 40

    Fender 59 Bassman should work for you as well as the tweeds are not as clean as the blackfaces. Really nice tight overdrive similar to older low wattage Marshalls but with a character of their own.

    I think the Fender Hot Rods are probably too clean for you.

    If you can find one look for a used Marshall JCM 900 DSL 50 watt head and a 4x12 1960A speaker cab. You can probably find them used for around $800 or slightly more



    Another great combo in that same vein is the Hiwatt DC 40 bulldog. Awesome combo. I've seen them on Ebay for under $700

    Ocassionally you'll find an Orange AD 15/10 or 12 for under $800 those are really great too.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    oh wow dude. this could go in a billion directions.


    The Smashing Pumpkins used The Electro Harmonix Big Muff and Small Stone phaser on Siamese Dream the most common sound that SP fans are looking to emulate.

    I would suggest you look into Peavy, (Classic 50, Triple X models)

    Marshall DSL 40

    Fender 59 Bassman should work for you as well as the tweeds are not as clean as the blackfaces. Really nice tight overdrive similar to older low wattage Marshalls but with a character of their own.

    I think the Fender Hot Rods are probably too clean for you.

    If you can find one look for a used Marshall JCM 900 DSL 50 watt head and a 4x12 1960A speaker cab. You can probably find them used for around $800 or slightly more



    Another great combo in that same vein is the Hiwatt DC 40 bulldog. Awesome combo. I've seen them on Ebay for under $700

    Ocassionally you'll find an Orange AD 15/10 or 12 for under $800 those are really great too.

    As always you have the answers, you should start charging :)
    Do you think 40watts is too much for bedroom playing? My wife is about to kick me out of the house LOL. I know most of the tube amps have reverb, but it seems CD line-in and headphone jacks are never offered.
    Thanks for the info on SP, I guess I am not the only one who envys that sound. Thanks again,
    JZ
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by JofZ
    As always you have the answers, you should start charging :)
    Do you think 40watts is too much for bedroom playing? My wife is about to kick me out of the house LOL. I know most of the tube amps have reverb, but it seems CD line-in and headphone jacks are never offered.
    Thanks for the info on SP, I guess I am not the only one who envys that sound. Thanks again,
    JZ


    Is 40 watts too much? Hell man 15 watts is too much.

    You really want to make the wife happy this is the smallest all tube amp you can buy. http://zvexamps.com/ and yes it's bad ass but pricey still you could afford this and a decent cab for it too.

    you may also try http://www.thdamps.com but the Univalve maybe out of your price range. However it includes a Hot Plate (attenuator) so you can crank the amp but keep the wife happy around a $300 value.


    40 watts will however give you clean headroom that you will probably desire you can always attenuate it. As long as you have a master volume and a master gain though you should be ok. I know I play way to loud for the neighbors but it's pretty common among guitar players. The big muff will help you lid some of that sound because it creates its own distortion. You can literally get the sound you want at a volume level you desire and use the output level on the muff to limit the total output volume.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    Is 40 watts too much? Hell man 15 watts is too much.

    You really want to make the wife happy this is the smallest all tube amp you can buy. http://zvexamps.com/ and yes it's bad ass but pricey still you could afford this and a decent cab for it too.

    you may also try http://www.thdamps.com but the Univalve maybe out of your price range. However it includes a Hot Plate (attenuator) so you can crank the amp but keep the wife happy around a $300 value.


    40 watts will however give you clean headroom that you will probably desire you can always attenuate it. As long as you have a master volume and a master gain though you should be ok. I know I play way to loud for the neighbors but it's pretty common among guitar players. The big muff will help you lid some of that sound because it creates its own distortion. You can literally get the sound you want at a volume level you desire and use the output level on the muff to limit the total output volume.


    Once again thank you.
    I am going to look into all the amps you suggested. I know the big muff wil be purchased asap.

    I'll let you know what I decide.
    Thanks again,
    JZ
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by JofZ
    Once again thank you.
    I am going to look into all the amps you suggested. I know the big muff wil be purchased asap.

    I'll let you know what I decide.
    Thanks again,
    JZ


    Happy to help.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    that Zvex is one funny lookin thing!
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    and it's tiny. But it sounds awesome.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • justamjustam Posts: 21,412
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    Is 40 watts too much? Hell man 15 watts is too much.


    *giggle* :)
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    and it's tiny. But it sounds awesome.
    and it looks like its fairly hard to find. Locally no one has one to go check out.
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    they are pretty rare. I've only seen one or two in person down in Atlanta.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by JofZ
    and it looks like its fairly hard to find. Locally no one has one to go check out.

    No, that's a web-order (or phone-order) deal. Like most boutique manufacturers, their distribution sucks.

    I would agree with Paco on amp models...

    From Fender, I like the DeVille amps, the Hot Rod Deluxe, and the reissued '59 Bassman. The HR Deluxe is 40 watts, the Bassman RI is 45 watts, and the DeVilles are 60 watts. With a Big Muff, you'd definitely get that Pumpkins sound (a little tweaking, of course). The 65 Fender Deluxe Reverb is 22 watts, and you might find a used reissue version for under $800. "Might" being the key term.

    The Peavey Classic-series are great, too. They're basically just knock-off versions of the Fender Hot Rod series. The Classic 30 is 30 watts, single 12" speaker, while the Classic 50 is 50 watts into either two 12" speakers or four 10" speakers. Both are great amps, a little bit heavier low-end than the Fenders. I've heard bad things about the Triple X, but from an unreliable source. The 5150 and 5150-II amps are great, and would fit the Pumpkins sound, but would probably be too loud (at 120 watts). The Delta Blues amps are good, 30 watts, into either a single 15" speaker or two 10" speakers.

    Marshall's JCM800 and JCM900 combos and half-stacks are good, too, but I think the smallest ones are still 50 watts. I have a JCM 800 combo, model 4210, that is pretty good. Dual-channel, Hammond reverb, all-tube, 50 watts, single 12" speaker. Go on eBay and see what you can find.

    Hope that helps...
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    No, that's a web-order (or phone-order) deal. Like most boutique manufacturers, their distribution sucks.

    I would agree with Paco on amp models...

    From Fender, I like the DeVille amps, the Hot Rod Deluxe, and the reissued '59 Bassman. The HR Deluxe is 40 watts, the Bassman RI is 45 watts, and the DeVilles are 60 watts. With a Big Muff, you'd definitely get that Pumpkins sound (a little tweaking, of course). The 65 Fender Deluxe Reverb is 22 watts, and you might find a used reissue version for under $800. "Might" being the key term.

    The Peavey Classic-series are great, too. They're basically just knock-off versions of the Fender Hot Rod series. The Classic 30 is 30 watts, single 12" speaker, while the Classic 50 is 50 watts into either two 12" speakers or four 10" speakers. Both are great amps, a little bit heavier low-end than the Fenders. I've heard bad things about the Triple X, but from an unreliable source. The 5150 and 5150-II amps are great, and would fit the Pumpkins sound, but would probably be too loud (at 120 watts). The Delta Blues amps are good, 30 watts, into either a single 15" speaker or two 10" speakers.

    Marshall's JCM800 and JCM900 combos and half-stacks are good, too, but I think the smallest ones are still 50 watts. I have a JCM 800 combo, model 4210, that is pretty good. Dual-channel, Hammond reverb, all-tube, 50 watts, single 12" speaker. Go on eBay and see what you can find.


    Hope that helps...


    ooooh. Delta Blues. Nice. 15" speaker nice and deep reverb for days. still classic 50 with 4 10"s is my fave from Peavy.

    Zvex like most of those folks only ships a few dozen out to dealers as they order. Small one or two room operation. Sorry fellows.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    ooooh. Delta Blues. Nice. 15" speaker nice and deep reverb for days. still classic 50 with 4 10"s is my fave from Peavy.

    The Classic 50 head is always pretty tempting for me... especially with my full-stack of 10" speakers. I'm still surprised that Fender doesn't put the DeVille or Bassman amps out in head versions...

    It's kinda funny, Peavey has the following tube amps:

    Classic-series (blatant Fender copies);
    5150-series (blatant Marshall copies); and
    Triple-X amps (bad Mesa Boogie copies).

    The Delta Blues amps are almost Silvertone copies, but are still pretty good. And I don't know what to say about the Wiggy amp... still, Peavey does make some good amps these days, and I would've shot myself five years ago if I had known I'd be saying that now...

    Oh, and to respond to an earlier comment: I will almost put money down that you will NEVER find an all-tube guitar amp with CD ins or headphone outs. Those are practice-amp features, and the only all-tube practice amps are boutique amps (like the ZVex) or vintage amps (Fender Champ and Vibro Champ, etc). The reason they don't put the CD inputs or Headphone outs on tube amps is that they destroy the tonal network that makes a tube amp sound good... on solid-state amps, their curcuits allow those features without losing a lot of tone. Even so, you find less CD ins and Headphone outs on solid-state amps as they get bigger.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Thanks for the additional info. You are right finding head phone and cd options are looking slim.
    I would like to get a combo as I travel a ton. So I am going to go mess around with those amps you suggested over the weekend.
    I am fairly confident I will like the Marshall and Fender 59 bassman.
    I have never heard a good thing about Peavy, but I will keep my options open.
    I am also going to go pick up the big muff, small stone and possibly a fuzz pedal. Are Meyers worth the money?
    Thanks again,
    JZ
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by JofZ
    I have never heard a good thing about Peavy, but I will keep my options open.

    Please do... trust me, I wouldn't recommend them if they weren't good amps.

    The Big Muff is a necessity... they're sloppy, but they're Smashing Pumpkins.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    the triple x's lick complete balls. they are an awful awful copy of a Mesa Boogie but the classic series amps I like very much.



    which brings me to another recommendation which might be perfect and I forgot about them yesterday.

    Check out Mesa Boogie. Yeah they are the "cool" amp right now but Mesa builds really highly engineered quality stuff. The Mesa F-30 is in your price range as are the nomads and they will definately provide the sound you are looking for.


    http://www.mesaboogie.com
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    Check out Mesa Boogie. Yeah they are the "cool" amp right now but Mesa builds really highly engineered quality stuff. The Mesa F-30 is in your price range as are the nomads and they will definately provide the sound you are looking for.


    http://www.mesaboogie.com

    Good call, Paco.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    cool, the Mesa looks like it will meet all my needs and Guitar Center has them in stock :)
    Mesa or Fender?
    I was really unimpressed with my Marshall. I know it's not a tube amp, but other then the name I see nothing of value.
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Marshall is good to keep in mind, seeing as how Billy had his fair share of Marshall amps. But their small combos aren't that great, so I would focus on Fender and Mesa, with a nod to the Peaveys.
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by JofZ
    cool, the Mesa looks like it will meet all my needs and Guitar Center has them in stock :)
    Mesa or Fender?
    I was really unimpressed with my Marshall. I know it's not a tube amp, but other then the name I see nothing of value.


    Mesa. Think of Mesa as Fender on the steroids that Bill Romanowski was taking.

    Mesa will give you the balls in your tone that you so desire. If you add a sonic maximiser you will not believe how much the Mesas open up. You are looking for more edge than a fender if you are a pumpkins fan. I personally love Fenders but the Mesa's will have a great clean too.

    There's also a headphone and line out on the Mesa so I'd give it the nod for you.

    Mesa has high gain down to an Art.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    Mesa. Think of Mesa as Fender on the steroids that Bill Romanowski was taking.

    Mesa will give you the balls in your tone that you so desire. If you add a sonic maximiser you will not believe how much the Mesas open up. You are looking for more edge than a fender if you are a pumpkins fan. I personally love Fenders but the Mesa's will have a great clean too.

    There's also a headphone and line out on the Mesa so I'd give it the nod for you.

    Mesa has high gain down to an Art.

    You could probably ditch the Big Muff with a Mesa... just use the amp distortion...
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by mccreadyisgod
    You could probably ditch the Big Muff with a Mesa... just use the amp distortion...


    I was thinking the same thing. Good Call. (Millah time)
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    I was thinking the same thing. Good Call. (Millah time)

    Cheers!
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Thanks again guys, sounding like a broken record already LOL.
    I am on my way to Guitar center, it looks like the Mesa will give me everything I want.
    At least let me buy you guys a beer :)
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    cheers man. Good luck. Get them to hook up a big muff to it so you can hear what it sounds like too. Have a great time. :)
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • mccreadyisgodmccreadyisgod Bumfuq, MT Posts: 6,395
    Yep... try before you buy, that's my mantra...

    Well, that and "GOOD GEAR IS NO EXCUSE FOR BAD PLAYING!"
    ...and if you don't like it, you can suck on an egg.
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    All I can say is I didn't sleep much last night :)
    Took the Mesa F30 home with me last night, the thing is amazing.

    Thank you again Pac and McCready!
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by JofZ
    All I can say is I didn't sleep much last night :)
    Took the Mesa F30 home with me last night, the thing is amazing.

    Thank you again Pac and McCready!



    :) So you're pissing off the neighbors already! Fantastic! Glad you're happy.

    I hope you're getting that pumpkins sound like you wanted.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • JofZJofZ Posts: 1,276
    Originally posted by Pacomc79
    :) So you're pissing off the neighbors already! Fantastic! Glad you're happy.

    I hope you're getting that pumpkins sound like you wanted.
    Not only did I play for way too long, but my wife fell asleep on the couch with ear plugs in LOLOLOL.
    The amp is everything I wanted and then some. Guitar center was out of stock, but they sent me home with the floor model until my piece arrives.
    You were right no big Muff needed :)
    I was reading the artist list on the Mesa website this morning and I was surpirsed by the list. Many use or have used the Mesa's including the Pumpkins.
    Since I am into early 90's rock, this amp provides the sound I was looking for.
    Thank you again, hopefully one day I will be worthy of it :)
    WHAT IS THAT NOISE?
    Hanging at www.TheGuitarHub.com
    The only Forum for players by players.......

    Playing Les Pauls, Teles, Hubers, Gustavssons, Kolls through a Mad Professor amp with a Bob Burt Cab.
    BJF powers my Pedal Board
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Originally posted by JofZ
    Not only did I play for way too long, but my wife fell asleep on the couch with ear plugs in LOLOLOL.
    The amp is everything I wanted and then some. Guitar center was out of stock, but they sent me home with the floor model until my piece arrives.
    You were right no big Muff needed :)
    I was reading the artist list on the Mesa website this morning and I was surpirsed by the list. Many use or have used the Mesa's including the Pumpkins.
    Since I am into early 90's rock, this amp provides the sound I was looking for.
    Thank you again, hopefully one day I will be worthy of it :)


    That's awesome. You are worthy. It's an expensive little box but they sure do sound good. If I ever do go pro I'm considering an F-50 If I get over my obsession with Fender.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
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