No Kings.....

Lerxst1992 · June 18

Tim Simmons said:

Trump won white men 18-29 by around 1% that’s not sizable. But yeah, it was a drop of 12% since 2020. Just to be correct.

we can debate different polls, but the point is not that Trump won young white man by a few points, but that the shift from the last election was closer to 15%. that's enough to turn a close election

from pbs...
"This year, compared to the 2020 election, president-elect Trump made gains across almost every single demographic group. But one of the most notable shifts was among young men, who moved roughly 15 points to the right."
..
have a watch of this focus group, it offers great perspective what is regarded as true outside the dem o sphere.

https://youtu.be/awU5f07rh2Y?si=ipvr29YLEY8ujS4F

fwiw I disagree with all the young men here, but they all speak very differently than what you see among democrats. even the interviewer takes it as fact that these are Trends understood to be accepted. also, more perfect union is a good channel on youtube, very left leaning

Gern Blansten · June 18

I feel like the first time voters were too young to remember much about his first term. They probably preferred his bravado to Harris and went with it.

Lerxst1992 · June 18

Tim Simmons said:

Also, it’s not DEI. It’s increased cost of living, it’s increased cost of healthcare. It’s increased cost of housing. it’s the cost of college. It’s all about increased cost in everything. That’s what drove the white men away.

Watch that video, it's worth it. By the way it found me on YouTube not the other way around. And it's a very left leaning Channel, so Google absolutely thinks I'm a Democrat

They don't mention Dei specifically, but they do talk at length about how difficult it is for young men to find quality jobs.

And they all do make reference to all their female friends, and how it's significantly different for their female friends.

I'm telling you it's really really worth it. But people on here are inside their demosphere you could just tell from the comments. I know most will not watch it, or if they do they'll discount it. Put people like me on ignore even though I'm a democrat. But we do almost exactly what Maga does on the left

And that comment about israel, seriously? The problem with making a big deal about Israel on the left is Democrats lose voters on both sides of that war. . In the old days we just accepted that things like Muslim extremism and intefadas were wrong. That word literally means "organized genocide around the world," and it's ignored by democrats on the extreme. Supporting that policy is a Death knell for the Democratic party

Go Beavers · June 18

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Trump won white men 18-29 by around 1% that’s not sizable. But yeah, it was a drop of 12% since 2020. Just to be correct.

we can debate different polls, but the point is not that Trump won young white man by a few points, but that the shift from the last election was closer to 15%. that's enough to turn a close election

from pbs...
"This year, compared to the 2020 election, president-elect Trump made gains across almost every single demographic group. But one of the most notable shifts was among young men, who moved roughly 15 points to the right."
..
have a watch of this focus group, it offers great perspective what is regarded as true outside the dem o sphere.

https://youtu.be/awU5f07rh2Y?si=ipvr29YLEY8ujS4F

fwiw I disagree with all the young men here, but they all speak very differently than what you see among democrats. even the interviewer takes it as fact that these are Trends understood to be accepted. also, more perfect union is a good channel on youtube, very left leaning

And why do you think Trump’s approval rating with younger people dropped so quickly since his inauguration?

Go Beavers · June 18

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Also, it’s not DEI. It’s increased cost of living, it’s increased cost of healthcare. It’s increased cost of housing. it’s the cost of college. It’s all about increased cost in everything. That’s what drove the white men away.

Watch that video, it's worth it. By the way it found me on YouTube not the other way around. And it's a very left leaning Channel, so Google absolutely thinks I'm a Democrat

They don't mention Dei specifically, but they do talk at length about how difficult it is for young men to find quality jobs.

And they all do make reference to all their female friends, and how it's significantly different for their female friends.

I'm telling you it's really really worth it. But people on here are inside their demosphere you could just tell from the comments. I know most will not watch it, or if they do they'll discount it. Put people like me on ignore even though I'm a democrat. But we do almost exactly what Maga does on the left

And that comment about israel, seriously? The problem with making a big deal about Israel on the left is Democrats lose voters on both sides of that war. . In the old days we just accepted that things like Muslim extremism and intefadas were wrong. That word literally means "organized genocide around the world," and it's ignored by democrats on the extreme. Supporting that policy is a Death knell for the Democratic party

I didn’t watch the whole video, but did any of them even mention Israel?

brianlux · June 19

Gern Blansten said:

I feel like the first time voters were too young to remember much about his first term. They probably preferred his bravado to Harris and went with it.

Maybe it's time to raise the voting age again or, better yet, require passing a basic course in civics/ government including basic concepts like rule of law, constitution, branches of government, and democracy in order to be able to vote. I know, not a popular idea, but I think it's a good one.

PJ_Soul · June 19

I don't think you all are looking deep enough when it comes to this male age range moving to Trump. There is no way in hell they are considering the economic facts of dems vs reps (which clearly favour dems). Whether they were too young to know it before Trump's current term or not, that has nothing to do with it, especially since most people that age know next to nothing about how the economy actually works. What this move of young white men towards Trump is really about, I think, is male identity issues.... and all things considered, that is profoundly disturbing.

brianlux · June 19

PJ_Soul said:

I don't think you all are looking deep enough when it comes to this male age range moving to Trump. There is no way in hell they are considering the economic facts of dems vs reps (which clearly favour dems). Whether they were too young to know it before Trump's current term or not, that has nothing to do with it, especially since most people that age know next to nothing about how the economy actually works. What this move of young white men towards Trump is really about, I think, is male identity issues.... and all things considered, that is profoundly disturbing.

You're the second woman I've heard who has said nearly the exact same thing (the other is a friend with a bookstore and a part time teaching job at Sacramento State). The two of you are both bright, very capable, and savvy. I'm listening. I hope more of your and her words get around.

HughFreakingDillon · June 19

Hence the rise of prominent figures like Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, and Charlie Kirk.

mickeyrat · June 19

remember back in 2015? when that incel cuck elliot rodgers(sp?) killed his roommate and was on his way to a sorority with a list before he live streamed his suicide?

that event and the subsequent conversation here forced a shift in my thinking about manhood for me. led me to ask , who do I want to be? HOW do I want to be. Made the decison that external cues about what a man is or is supposed to be was bullshit. I have my values and such live up to them. look to be a better human fucking being first. one result is , naturally , becoming a better man.

driving 9-10 hrs a day 5-6 days a week , I have a LOT of free time to think.

theres such a fear around expressing that kind of thing with men in general. tv/movies and now anti-social media both reinforcing these old ideas and at the same time telling men/young men all of us are bad , are ogres or monsters etc...

its the easier path to go along to get along than it is to stand on principle.

since fuckstick 2.0 I am firmly in this place

"FUCK YOU, I WONT DO WHAT YOU TELL ME"

Zack De La Rocha

applies in so many ways.....

HughFreakingDillon · June 19

There’s a reason the trumps and Andrew Tates of the world are so attractive to young men: it’s easier to blame external factors on your failures than look within. That takes growth.

When you are told to appreciate your privilege from one side and the other is convincing you you can’t get that job because of DEI, which one is easier to believe?

People blather on about liberal messaging failure; it’s pretty fucking easy to get your message across when it consists of nothing but “it’s not your fault”. The modern day Republican Party is the equivalent of a shitty parent that screams at the teacher for Billy’s bad grades.

benjs · June 19

HughFreakingDillon said:

There’s a reason the trumps and Andrew Tates of the world are so attractive to young men: it’s easier to blame external factors on your failures than look within. That takes growth.

When you are told to appreciate your privilege from one side and the other is convincing you you can’t get that job because of DEI, which one is easier to believe?

People blather on about liberal messaging failure; it’s pretty fucking easy to get your message across when it consists of nothing but “it’s not your fault”. The modern day Republican Party is the equivalent of a shitty parent that screams at the teacher for Billy’s bad grades.

I had shared a list of what I consider tenets of effective messaging for politicians today. I think you’ve given me another to add to the list.

1. The voting populace will vote for immediate change, not long term change.

2. Character is not even close to a top issue
3. The truthfulness of a claim is not considered by supporters
4. The voting populace is deaf to criticism by non-supporters (and excuse criticism by claiming that someone is a non-supporter)
5. There's a belief that a nation only has so much power and government energy to exert. Ergo, any power or energy spent on someone else's cohort, is seen as less attention provided to a voter
6. If given permission to suppress critical thought, by someone seen as powerful, a voter will gladly take that opportunity.

New addition: it takes an exceptionally strong message about “who I am” to resonate more than “who I’m not”, especially in the post-truth era.

My concern is that almost all Republican tactics are void of respect for their voters and are typically exploitations of incompetence or ignorance. These are tactics that go against the ethos of the Democratic Party, and I don’t know how you get around that.

Lerxst1992 · June 19

PJ_Soul said:

I don't think you all are looking deep enough when it comes to this male age range moving to Trump. There is no way in hell they are considering the economic facts of dems vs reps (which clearly favour dems). Whether they were too young to know it before Trump's current term or not, that has nothing to do with it, especially since most people that age know next to nothing about how the economy actually works. What this move of young white men towards Trump is really about, I think, is male identity issues.... and all things considered, that is profoundly disturbing.

I did say I did not agree with the politics of the five young men in that video. And I agree they do not understand politics like older people do. However, they do get a vote and Democrats need the young vote. This was supposed to be the Obama awakening and it’s fallen flat on its face. If I were a Democratic strategist, I’d be paying careful attention

As much as these young men know little about political strategy, they are smart enough to know that in their specific generation, their female friends are doing much better than their male friends. When companies have specific hiring and promotion targets, someone has to pay the price. But that’s just a sidebar to the overall recent political demographic challenges to the Democratic Party,

Gern Blansten · June 19

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

There’s a reason the trumps and Andrew Tates of the world are so attractive to young men: it’s easier to blame external factors on your failures than look within. That takes growth.

When you are told to appreciate your privilege from one side and the other is convincing you you can’t get that job because of DEI, which one is easier to believe?

People blather on about liberal messaging failure; it’s pretty fucking easy to get your message across when it consists of nothing but “it’s not your fault”. The modern day Republican Party is the equivalent of a shitty parent that screams at the teacher for Billy’s bad grades.

I had shared a list of what I consider tenets of effective messaging for politicians today. I think you’ve given me another to add to the list.

1. The voting populace will vote for immediate change, not long term change.
2. Character is not even close to a top issue
3. The truthfulness of a claim is not considered by supporters
4. The voting populace is deaf to criticism by non-supporters (and excuse criticism by claiming that someone is a non-supporter)
5. There's a belief that a nation only has so much power and government energy to exert. Ergo, any power or energy spent on someone else's cohort, is seen as less attention provided to a voter
6. If given permission to suppress critical thought, by someone seen as powerful, a voter will gladly take that opportunity.

New addition: it takes an exceptionally strong message about “who I am” to resonate more than “who I’m not”, especially in the post-truth era.

My concern is that almost all Republican tactics are void of respect for their voters and are typically exploitations of incompetence or ignorance. These are tactics that go against the ethos of the Democratic Party, and I don’t know how you get around that.

Fucking nailed it.

The only bright spot is that I think the GOP strategy only wins with a candidate like trump. I don't think it survives without him.

benjs · June 19

Gern Blansten said:

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

There’s a reason the trumps and Andrew Tates of the world are so attractive to young men: it’s easier to blame external factors on your failures than look within. That takes growth.

When you are told to appreciate your privilege from one side and the other is convincing you you can’t get that job because of DEI, which one is easier to believe?

People blather on about liberal messaging failure; it’s pretty fucking easy to get your message across when it consists of nothing but “it’s not your fault”. The modern day Republican Party is the equivalent of a shitty parent that screams at the teacher for Billy’s bad grades.

I had shared a list of what I consider tenets of effective messaging for politicians today. I think you’ve given me another to add to the list.

1. The voting populace will vote for immediate change, not long term change.
2. Character is not even close to a top issue
3. The truthfulness of a claim is not considered by supporters
4. The voting populace is deaf to criticism by non-supporters (and excuse criticism by claiming that someone is a non-supporter)
5. There's a belief that a nation only has so much power and government energy to exert. Ergo, any power or energy spent on someone else's cohort, is seen as less attention provided to a voter
6. If given permission to suppress critical thought, by someone seen as powerful, a voter will gladly take that opportunity.

New addition: it takes an exceptionally strong message about “who I am” to resonate more than “who I’m not”, especially in the post-truth era.

My concern is that almost all Republican tactics are void of respect for their voters and are typically exploitations of incompetence or ignorance. These are tactics that go against the ethos of the Democratic Party, and I don’t know how you get around that.

Fucking nailed it.

The only bright spot is that I think the GOP strategy only wins with a candidate like trump. I don't think it survives without him.

I feel that assumes there's only one reckless narcissist able to seize power of the Republican Party. I don't believe Trump is uniquely capable of this. If anything, he showed a new generation of malignant narcissists that they too, can do what he did.

Tim Simmons · June 19

Gern Blansten said:

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

There’s a reason the trumps and Andrew Tates of the world are so attractive to young men: it’s easier to blame external factors on your failures than look within. That takes growth.

When you are told to appreciate your privilege from one side and the other is convincing you you can’t get that job because of DEI, which one is easier to believe?

People blather on about liberal messaging failure; it’s pretty fucking easy to get your message across when it consists of nothing but “it’s not your fault”. The modern day Republican Party is the equivalent of a shitty parent that screams at the teacher for Billy’s bad grades.

I had shared a list of what I consider tenets of effective messaging for politicians today. I think you’ve given me another to add to the list.

1. The voting populace will vote for immediate change, not long term change.
2. Character is not even close to a top issue
3. The truthfulness of a claim is not considered by supporters
4. The voting populace is deaf to criticism by non-supporters (and excuse criticism by claiming that someone is a non-supporter)
5. There's a belief that a nation only has so much power and government energy to exert. Ergo, any power or energy spent on someone else's cohort, is seen as less attention provided to a voter
6. If given permission to suppress critical thought, by someone seen as powerful, a voter will gladly take that opportunity.

New addition: it takes an exceptionally strong message about “who I am” to resonate more than “who I’m not”, especially in the post-truth era.

My concern is that almost all Republican tactics are void of respect for their voters and are typically exploitations of incompetence or ignorance. These are tactics that go against the ethos of the Democratic Party, and I don’t know how you get around that.

Fucking nailed it.

The only bright spot is that I think the GOP strategy only wins with a candidate like trump. I don't think it survives without him.

I think it survives without him because any republican can tap into one or two of these things, but he is the best utilizer of these tactics because he lives and breathes these naturally (he's basically gathered all these infinity gems). Zero doubt this is the way he was brought up and lived long before politics. I think GOP messaging on these will be weaker, but this is now baked into their playbook for the foreseeable future.

Great post benjs

Tim Simmons · June 19

I do wish this place had reactions to posts.

Gern Blansten · June 19

I just think he's an anomaly...the older population has seen him for decades and they liked him on TV. The younger generation has just been fooled by his fake bravado. They are learning that he's just as full of shit as the politicians that he tells them are full of shit.

I don't see a JD Vance being able to get that same following. He'll get some for sure but I just don't think the enthusiasm will be there.

Tim Simmons · June 19

No. JD has no juice. Weird dude.

benjs · June 19

Gern Blansten said:

I just think he's an anomaly...the older population has seen him for decades and they liked him on TV. The younger generation has just been fooled by his fake bravado. They are learning that he's just as full of shit as the politicians that he tells them are full of shit.

I don't see a JD Vance being able to get that same following. He'll get some for sure but I just don't think the enthusiasm will be there.

If the data doesn't show JD as being a shoe-in, I'd guess the Republicans will advocate for primaries within the party. If you aren't Trump, you're disposable.

No Kings.....

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