Can we talk about ageism?

Poncier · May 28

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Labels are just language. A way to describe a group. If the majority of that group did some shitty things or shitty things happened on their watch, so to speak, the entire group gets lumped in.

Some people intend to lump the entire group, like when someone says “the left”, others don’t, like when we say “boomers fucked us”. 😂

... or, "All boomers are elitist radical leftist commies."

I thought you became more conservative when older?

My theory is folks go through an arc. Start out young, idealistic and liberal. Get to prime earning years and see what the gov't is taking in taxes and turn conservative. Reach retirement age and need the gov't handouts so turn back to liberal.

brianlux · May 29

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Labels are just language. A way to describe a group. If the majority of that group did some shitty things or shitty things happened on their watch, so to speak, the entire group gets lumped in.

Some people intend to lump the entire group, like when someone says “the left”, others don’t, like when we say “boomers fucked us”. 😂

... or, "All boomers are elitist radical leftist commies."

I thought you became more conservative when older?

Yes and no.

If you work at it, when you become older you become more like a well aged wine with food pairing: balanced and sensible.

As you age, and continue to age, you eventually become musty, off kilter, and senseless.

Trust me...

brianlux · May 29

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Labels are just language. A way to describe a group. If the majority of that group did some shitty things or shitty things happened on their watch, so to speak, the entire group gets lumped in.

Some people intend to lump the entire group, like when someone says “the left”, others don’t, like when we say “boomers fucked us”. 😂

... or, "All boomers are elitist radical leftist commies."

I thought you became more conservative when older?

My theory is folks go through an arc. Start out young, idealistic and liberal. Get to prime earning years and see what the gov't is taking in taxes and turn conservative. Reach retirement age and need the gov't handouts so turn back to liberal.

What hand outs? Oh, you mean the money you paid into the system for all those years while working your butt off.

I know you don't mean the savings and investing intelligent people do during their productive working years.

seanwon · May 31

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Labels are just language. A way to describe a group. If the majority of that group did some shitty things or shitty things happened on their watch, so to speak, the entire group gets lumped in.

Some people intend to lump the entire group, like when someone says “the left”, others don’t, like when we say “boomers fucked us”. 😂

... or, "All boomers are elitist radical leftist commies."

I thought you became more conservative when older?

My theory is folks go through an arc. Start out young, idealistic and liberal. Get to prime earning years and see what the gov't is taking in taxes and turn conservative. Reach retirement age and need the gov't handouts so turn back to liberal.

He who isn't a Liberal when young has no heart. He who doesn't become more Conservative as they age, has no brain.

brianlux · May 31

We're getting into massive generalization here. Not to mention rather boxed in by labels.

Break out of your cages!

benjs · May 31

seanwon said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Labels are just language. A way to describe a group. If the majority of that group did some shitty things or shitty things happened on their watch, so to speak, the entire group gets lumped in.

Some people intend to lump the entire group, like when someone says “the left”, others don’t, like when we say “boomers fucked us”. 😂

... or, "All boomers are elitist radical leftist commies."

I thought you became more conservative when older?

My theory is folks go through an arc. Start out young, idealistic and liberal. Get to prime earning years and see what the gov't is taking in taxes and turn conservative. Reach retirement age and need the gov't handouts so turn back to liberal.

He who isn't a Liberal when young has no heart. He who doesn't become more Conservative as they age, has no brain.

He who makes rude generalizations isn’t worth listening to.

HughFreakingDillon · June 4

It isn’t a case of becoming more conservative as you age. The definition of liberal changes as you age.

Maybe it’s 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, I just don’t think my values change, the values if the ideological spectrum move.

brianlux · June 4

HughFreakingDillon said:

It isn’t a case of becoming more conservative as you age. The definition of liberal changes as you age.

Maybe it’s 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, I just don’t think my values change, the values if the ideological spectrum move.

Interesting notion.

I don't think my moral values have changed. The only thing that really changed was my attitude about money. When I was young, I couldn't hold on to it very long. I didn't care. Any I had, I spent. Sometimes that meant having nothing but rice and ketchup to eat. Now I'm more cautious with money because I don't have decades left to save it up.

mace1229 · June 6

brianlux said:

Not because I'm a so-called "baby-boomer", or because I want to rant and rave at younger people, particularly so-called "gen-Z" people (don'tcha hate those labels?!)
No, more because I'm curious as to why it is such a thing these days. (If you don't think so, Google "Geb Z Ageism.)
A woman who is a friend and someone I used to work with who is 75 told me she is really bummed because she hears about it all the time. She has a used book store and still works as hard as she can to keep going. She recalled how when she and my wife were younger they struggled to make ends meet for many years. At that time, this friend lived it what had been a chicken coop and my wife at that time was living in a cabin that had no heat or running water. I had similar experiences. I lived in a converted chicken coop for a couple of years when I was younger. I also lived in my van for a few years. I've never lived "high on the hog".
That same friend keeps hearing young people say they are angry with "boomers" because they had it so easy and took everything and now everything is fucked up for them now because of us. She also told me that a lot of these people voted for d.t. because he (himself born the first year of baby boomer generation) is going to make everything better for them.
Yes, I know there were some very career oriented and greedy boomers in Silicon Valley, but that's not how all of us were/are. I don't understand all this hatred. Shit, I'm almost 74 and it looks like I'm going to have to go back to work again soon. WTF? I supposedly "have everything"? I don't get it.

It’s obviously very generalized, but there is some truth in that.
look at pensions for public employees. Teachers retiring now are getting a much better pension that I will in 20 years. I’m paying more into it and getting less out of it. That’s the case for a lot of public pension plans.

Obviously not everyone, but a lot of people you’re age (you’re the exact age as my dad and he’s be befitted from it) were able to work and retire comfortably at 55 and live another 25-30 years or more. Anyone who is 40 now has no dream to retire as early as 55. We have to keep working to fund the pensions of those who did.

brianlux · June 6

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Not because I'm a so-called "baby-boomer", or because I want to rant and rave at younger people, particularly so-called "gen-Z" people (don'tcha hate those labels?!)
No, more because I'm curious as to why it is such a thing these days. (If you don't think so, Google "Geb Z Ageism.)
A woman who is a friend and someone I used to work with who is 75 told me she is really bummed because she hears about it all the time. She has a used book store and still works as hard as she can to keep going. She recalled how when she and my wife were younger they struggled to make ends meet for many years. At that time, this friend lived it what had been a chicken coop and my wife at that time was living in a cabin that had no heat or running water. I had similar experiences. I lived in a converted chicken coop for a couple of years when I was younger. I also lived in my van for a few years. I've never lived "high on the hog".
That same friend keeps hearing young people say they are angry with "boomers" because they had it so easy and took everything and now everything is fucked up for them now because of us. She also told me that a lot of these people voted for d.t. because he (himself born the first year of baby boomer generation) is going to make everything better for them.
Yes, I know there were some very career oriented and greedy boomers in Silicon Valley, but that's not how all of us were/are. I don't understand all this hatred. Shit, I'm almost 74 and it looks like I'm going to have to go back to work again soon. WTF? I supposedly "have everything"? I don't get it.

It’s obviously very generalized, but there is some truth in that.
look at pensions for public employees. Teachers retiring now are getting a much better pension that I will in 20 years. I’m paying more into it and getting less out of it. That’s the case for a lot of public pension plans.

Obviously not everyone, but a lot of people you’re age (you’re the exact age as my dad and he’s be befitted from it) were able to work and retire comfortably at 55 and live another 25-30 years or more. Anyone who is 40 now has no dream to retire as early as 55. We have to keep working to fund the pensions of those who did.

I must be hanging with the wrong peer crowd, lol. I only know one person my age who retired at age 55. I know several people my age who still work, mostly part-time, but if they didn't, they would have a difficult time of it. For example:

CB: Age 77. Gets work where and when able to, has had to move several time due to cost of rent.

N: Age 76. Works hard four days a week. Often comments on how hard it is to keep going.

C: Age 72. Works very part time, but has bills to pay and does not get much social security.

J: Age 82. Finally had to quit two years ago. Can't drive any more and is now living with one of the kids.

B. Mid 70's. Saw him working at Office Max a few years ago. Doing OK, but not great.

Me: Age 73, soon to be 74. Went back to work part time to pay for major unexpected car expenses from last month.

Honest to God, I don't know who all these people are that you say retired at 55. Must be nice. But honestly, that' not the norm.

Sorry bud, but none of what you say is a reason for ageism/ hatred of older people (not saying you do). I rest my case.

mace1229 · June 7

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Not because I'm a so-called "baby-boomer", or because I want to rant and rave at younger people, particularly so-called "gen-Z" people (don'tcha hate those labels?!)
No, more because I'm curious as to why it is such a thing these days. (If you don't think so, Google "Geb Z Ageism.)
A woman who is a friend and someone I used to work with who is 75 told me she is really bummed because she hears about it all the time. She has a used book store and still works as hard as she can to keep going. She recalled how when she and my wife were younger they struggled to make ends meet for many years. At that time, this friend lived it what had been a chicken coop and my wife at that time was living in a cabin that had no heat or running water. I had similar experiences. I lived in a converted chicken coop for a couple of years when I was younger. I also lived in my van for a few years. I've never lived "high on the hog".
That same friend keeps hearing young people say they are angry with "boomers" because they had it so easy and took everything and now everything is fucked up for them now because of us. She also told me that a lot of these people voted for d.t. because he (himself born the first year of baby boomer generation) is going to make everything better for them.
Yes, I know there were some very career oriented and greedy boomers in Silicon Valley, but that's not how all of us were/are. I don't understand all this hatred. Shit, I'm almost 74 and it looks like I'm going to have to go back to work again soon. WTF? I supposedly "have everything"? I don't get it.

It’s obviously very generalized, but there is some truth in that.
look at pensions for public employees. Teachers retiring now are getting a much better pension that I will in 20 years. I’m paying more into it and getting less out of it. That’s the case for a lot of public pension plans.

Obviously not everyone, but a lot of people you’re age (you’re the exact age as my dad and he’s be befitted from it) were able to work and retire comfortably at 55 and live another 25-30 years or more. Anyone who is 40 now has no dream to retire as early as 55. We have to keep working to fund the pensions of those who did.

I must be hanging with the wrong peer crowd, lol. I only know one person my age who retired at age 55. I know several people my age who still work, mostly part-time, but if they didn't, they would have a difficult time of it. For example:

CB: Age 77. Gets work where and when able to, has had to move several time due to cost of rent.
N: Age 76. Works hard four days a week. Often comments on how hard it is to keep going.
C: Age 72. Works very part time, but has bills to pay and does not get much social security.
J: Age 82. Finally had to quit two years ago. Can't drive any more and is now living with one of the kids.
B. Mid 70's. Saw him working at Office Max a few years ago. Doing OK, but not great.
Me: Age 73, soon to be 74. Went back to work part time to pay for major unexpected car expenses from last month.

Honest to God, I don't know who all these people are that you say retired at 55. Must be nice. But honestly, that' not the norm.

Sorry bud, but none of what you say is a reason for ageism/ hatred of older people (not saying you do). I rest my case.

Of course it’s not an excuse for ageism, and I noticed you pointed out that’s not what I was saying.

I’d say it’s definitely the minority, but not that uncommon for boomers to have retired from 55-60. Those who got to work early and stayed in a single career definitely had a chance. My dad joined the sheriff dept at 22 and retired at 55 with 100% (or, I think actually 99%) pension. My uncle joined the dept around the same time and retired a year or so later.
I have friends whose parents are teachers, and if they started their career at 22,23,24 were able to retire before 60.
Teachers at my school who retire every year, red usually a few in the 55-60 range. Again, those who started right out of college and stuck with the career are able to retire after putting in 30 years.
I’m not “ageist” against them. But it is frustrating knowing they are retiring at an earlier age than I will be able to mostly because I am paying more into the system than they had to. I’m paying for their retirement. The reality of the situation is frustrating. They underestimated the cost and the longevity of their retirement, so we’re paying the difference now.

Maybe it’s because I know more law enforcement through family and family friends than most, and through education because of my job, and those are 2 careers with state pensions, I see it more than you do. Unless you’re going into politics and running for sheriff or something, cops don’t work into their 60s. You’re an old cop at 55.

brianlux · June 7

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Not because I'm a so-called "baby-boomer", or because I want to rant and rave at younger people, particularly so-called "gen-Z" people (don'tcha hate those labels?!)
No, more because I'm curious as to why it is such a thing these days. (If you don't think so, Google "Geb Z Ageism.)
A woman who is a friend and someone I used to work with who is 75 told me she is really bummed because she hears about it all the time. She has a used book store and still works as hard as she can to keep going. She recalled how when she and my wife were younger they struggled to make ends meet for many years. At that time, this friend lived it what had been a chicken coop and my wife at that time was living in a cabin that had no heat or running water. I had similar experiences. I lived in a converted chicken coop for a couple of years when I was younger. I also lived in my van for a few years. I've never lived "high on the hog".
That same friend keeps hearing young people say they are angry with "boomers" because they had it so easy and took everything and now everything is fucked up for them now because of us. She also told me that a lot of these people voted for d.t. because he (himself born the first year of baby boomer generation) is going to make everything better for them.
Yes, I know there were some very career oriented and greedy boomers in Silicon Valley, but that's not how all of us were/are. I don't understand all this hatred. Shit, I'm almost 74 and it looks like I'm going to have to go back to work again soon. WTF? I supposedly "have everything"? I don't get it.

It’s obviously very generalized, but there is some truth in that.
look at pensions for public employees. Teachers retiring now are getting a much better pension that I will in 20 years. I’m paying more into it and getting less out of it. That’s the case for a lot of public pension plans.

Obviously not everyone, but a lot of people you’re age (you’re the exact age as my dad and he’s be befitted from it) were able to work and retire comfortably at 55 and live another 25-30 years or more. Anyone who is 40 now has no dream to retire as early as 55. We have to keep working to fund the pensions of those who did.

I must be hanging with the wrong peer crowd, lol. I only know one person my age who retired at age 55. I know several people my age who still work, mostly part-time, but if they didn't, they would have a difficult time of it. For example:

CB: Age 77. Gets work where and when able to, has had to move several time due to cost of rent.
N: Age 76. Works hard four days a week. Often comments on how hard it is to keep going.
C: Age 72. Works very part time, but has bills to pay and does not get much social security.
J: Age 82. Finally had to quit two years ago. Can't drive any more and is now living with one of the kids.
B. Mid 70's. Saw him working at Office Max a few years ago. Doing OK, but not great.
Me: Age 73, soon to be 74. Went back to work part time to pay for major unexpected car expenses from last month.

Honest to God, I don't know who all these people are that you say retired at 55. Must be nice. But honestly, that' not the norm.

Sorry bud, but none of what you say is a reason for ageism/ hatred of older people (not saying you do). I rest my case.

Of course it’s not an excuse for ageism, and I noticed you pointed out that’s not what I was saying.

I’d say it’s definitely the minority, but not that uncommon for boomers to have retired from 55-60. Those who got to work early and stayed in a single career definitely had a chance. My dad joined the sheriff dept at 22 and retired at 55 with 100% (or, I think actually 99%) pension. My uncle joined the dept around the same time and retired a year or so later.
I have friends whose parents are teachers, and if they started their career at 22,23,24 were able to retire before 60.
Teachers at my school who retire every year, red usually a few in the 55-60 range. Again, those who started right out of college and stuck with the career are able to retire after putting in 30 years.
I’m not “ageist” against them. But it is frustrating knowing they are retiring at an earlier age than I will be able to mostly because I am paying more into the system than they had to. I’m paying for their retirement. The reality of the situation is frustrating. They underestimated the cost and the longevity of their retirement, so we’re paying the difference now.

Maybe it’s because I know more law enforcement through family and family friends than most, and through education because of my job, and those are 2 careers with state pensions, I see it more than you do. Unless you’re going into politics and running for sheriff or something, cops don’t work into their 60s. You’re an old cop at 55.

Look, I am saddened that the future outlook is not as good as it could/ should be for younger generations.

But as I said, I'm not accusing you of being ageist. I just think blaming "boomers" as being responsible for difficulties younger generations are having it is too much generalizing. I think an argument could be made for the G.I. generation being just as responsible. They had the longest longevity of any generation. I think an argument cold be made for too many younger generations voting a dictator into the office of president is a part of the problem. Or spending too much money on tattoos and lattes, spending too much time on the cell phone, and every kid needing to have their own TV could be considered reasons.

But I'm not for any of those generalizations. I think the problem is an American People issue.

I'm going to go and relax now. I have to work tomorrow.

mace1229 · June 7

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Not because I'm a so-called "baby-boomer", or because I want to rant and rave at younger people, particularly so-called "gen-Z" people (don'tcha hate those labels?!)
No, more because I'm curious as to why it is such a thing these days. (If you don't think so, Google "Geb Z Ageism.)
A woman who is a friend and someone I used to work with who is 75 told me she is really bummed because she hears about it all the time. She has a used book store and still works as hard as she can to keep going. She recalled how when she and my wife were younger they struggled to make ends meet for many years. At that time, this friend lived it what had been a chicken coop and my wife at that time was living in a cabin that had no heat or running water.   I had similar experiences. I lived in a converted chicken coop for a couple of years when I was younger. I also lived in my van for a few years. I've never lived "high on the hog".
That same friend keeps hearing young people say they are angry with "boomers" because they had it so easy and took everything and now everything is fucked up for them now because of us. She also told me that a lot of these people voted for d.t. because he (himself born the first year of baby boomer generation) is going to make everything better for them.
Yes, I know there were some very career oriented and greedy boomers in Silicon Valley, but that's not how all of us were/are. I don't understand all this hatred. Shit, I'm almost 74 and it looks like I'm going to have to go back to work again soon. WTF? I supposedly "have everything"? I don't get it.

It’s obviously very generalized, but there is some truth in that.
look at pensions for public employees. Teachers retiring now are getting a much better pension that I will in 20 years. I’m paying more into it and getting less out of it. That’s the case for a lot of public pension plans.

Obviously not everyone, but a lot of people you’re age (you’re the exact age as my dad and he’s be befitted from it) were able to work and retire comfortably at 55 and live another 25-30 years or more. Anyone who is 40 now has no dream to retire as early as 55. We have to keep working to fund the pensions of those who did.

I must be hanging with the wrong peer crowd, lol. I only know one person my age who retired at age 55. I know several people my age who still work, mostly part-time, but if they didn't, they would have a difficult time of it. For example:

CB: Age 77. Gets work where and when able to, has had to move several time due to cost of rent.
N: Age 76. Works hard four days a week. Often comments on how hard it is to keep going.
C: Age 72. Works very part time, but has bills to pay and does not get much social security.
J: Age 82. Finally had to quit two years ago. Can't drive any more and is now living with one of the kids.
B. Mid 70's. Saw him working at Office Max a few years ago. Doing OK, but not great.
Me: Age 73, soon to be 74. Went back to work part time to pay for major unexpected car expenses from last month.

Honest to God, I don't know who all these people are that you say retired at 55. Must be nice. But honestly, that' not the norm.

Sorry bud, but none of what you say is a reason for ageism/ hatred of older people (not saying you do). I rest my case.

Of course it’s not an excuse for ageism, and I noticed you pointed out that’s not what I was saying.

I’d say it’s definitely the minority, but not that uncommon for boomers to have retired from 55-60. Those who got to work early and stayed in a single career definitely had a chance. My dad joined the sheriff dept at 22 and retired at 55 with 100% (or, I think actually 99%) pension. My uncle joined the dept around the same time and retired a year or so later.
I have friends whose parents are teachers, and if they started their career at 22,23,24 were able to retire before 60.
Teachers at my school who retire every year, red usually a few in the 55-60 range. Again, those who started right out of college and stuck with the career are able to retire after putting in 30 years.
I’m not “ageist” against them. But it is frustrating knowing they are retiring at an earlier age than I will be able to mostly because I am paying more into the system than they had to. I’m paying for their retirement. The reality of the situation is frustrating. They underestimated the cost and the longevity of their retirement, so we’re paying the difference now.

Maybe it’s because I know more law enforcement through family and family friends than most, and through education because of my job, and those are 2 careers with state pensions, I see it more than you do. Unless you’re going into politics and running for sheriff or something, cops don’t work into their 60s. You’re an old cop at 55.

Look, I am saddened that the future outlook is not as good as it could/ should be for younger generations.
But as I said, I'm not accusing you of being ageist. I just think blaming "boomers" as being responsible for difficulties younger generations are having it is too much generalizing. I think an argument could be made for the G.I. generation being just as responsible. They had the longest longevity of any generation. I think an argument cold be made for too many younger generations voting a dictator into the office of president is a part of the problem. Or spending too much money on tattoos and lattes, spending too much time on the cell phone, and every kid needing to have their own TV could be considered reasons.
But I'm not for any of those generalizations. I think the problem is an American People issue.
I'm going to go and relax now. I have to work tomorrow.

Sorry if I came across as generalizing blame on boomers. It’s not their fault. It’s the ones in charge of financial responsibility for public pension plans underestimated the cost for years. And honestly, being able to retire at 55 and collect a full salary for 30 years seems a little ridiculous and unsustainable.
And you are right, younger generations spend too much on Starbucks, new iPhones every other year, etc.

Lerxst1992 · June 7

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Not because I'm a so-called "baby-boomer", or because I want to rant and rave at younger people, particularly so-called "gen-Z" people (don'tcha hate those labels?!)
No, more because I'm curious as to why it is such a thing these days. (If you don't think so, Google "Geb Z Ageism.)
A woman who is a friend and someone I used to work with who is 75 told me she is really bummed because she hears about it all the time. She has a used book store and still works as hard as she can to keep going. She recalled how when she and my wife were younger they struggled to make ends meet for many years. At that time, this friend lived it what had been a chicken coop and my wife at that time was living in a cabin that had no heat or running water.   I had similar experiences. I lived in a converted chicken coop for a couple of years when I was younger. I also lived in my van for a few years. I've never lived "high on the hog".
That same friend keeps hearing young people say they are angry with "boomers" because they had it so easy and took everything and now everything is fucked up for them now because of us. She also told me that a lot of these people voted for d.t. because he (himself born the first year of baby boomer generation) is going to make everything better for them.
Yes, I know there were some very career oriented and greedy boomers in Silicon Valley, but that's not how all of us were/are. I don't understand all this hatred. Shit, I'm almost 74 and it looks like I'm going to have to go back to work again soon. WTF? I supposedly "have everything"? I don't get it.

It’s obviously very generalized, but there is some truth in that.
look at pensions for public employees. Teachers retiring now are getting a much better pension that I will in 20 years. I’m paying more into it and getting less out of it. That’s the case for a lot of public pension plans.

Obviously not everyone, but a lot of people you’re age (you’re the exact age as my dad and he’s be befitted from it) were able to work and retire comfortably at 55 and live another 25-30 years or more. Anyone who is 40 now has no dream to retire as early as 55. We have to keep working to fund the pensions of those who did.

I must be hanging with the wrong peer crowd, lol. I only know one person my age who retired at age 55. I know several people my age who still work, mostly part-time, but if they didn't, they would have a difficult time of it. For example:

CB: Age 77. Gets work where and when able to, has had to move several time due to cost of rent.
N: Age 76. Works hard four days a week. Often comments on how hard it is to keep going.
C: Age 72. Works very part time, but has bills to pay and does not get much social security.
J: Age 82. Finally had to quit two years ago. Can't drive any more and is now living with one of the kids.
B. Mid 70's. Saw him working at Office Max a few years ago. Doing OK, but not great.
Me: Age 73, soon to be 74. Went back to work part time to pay for major unexpected car expenses from last month.

Honest to God, I don't know who all these people are that you say retired at 55. Must be nice. But honestly, that' not the norm.

Sorry bud, but none of what you say is a reason for ageism/ hatred of older people (not saying you do). I rest my case.

Of course it’s not an excuse for ageism, and I noticed you pointed out that’s not what I was saying.

I’d say it’s definitely the minority, but not that uncommon for boomers to have retired from 55-60. Those who got to work early and stayed in a single career definitely had a chance. My dad joined the sheriff dept at 22 and retired at 55 with 100% (or, I think actually 99%) pension. My uncle joined the dept around the same time and retired a year or so later.
I have friends whose parents are teachers, and if they started their career at 22,23,24 were able to retire before 60.
Teachers at my school who retire every year, red usually a few in the 55-60 range. Again, those who started right out of college and stuck with the career are able to retire after putting in 30 years.
I’m not “ageist” against them. But it is frustrating knowing they are retiring at an earlier age than I will be able to mostly because I am paying more into the system than they had to. I’m paying for their retirement. The reality of the situation is frustrating. They underestimated the cost and the longevity of their retirement, so we’re paying the difference now.

Maybe it’s because I know more law enforcement through family and family friends than most, and through education because of my job, and those are 2 careers with state pensions, I see it more than you do. Unless you’re going into politics and running for sheriff or something, cops don’t work into their 60s. You’re an old cop at 55.

Look, I am saddened that the future outlook is not as good as it could/ should be for younger generations.
But as I said, I'm not accusing you of being ageist. I just think blaming "boomers" as being responsible for difficulties younger generations are having it is too much generalizing. I think an argument could be made for the G.I. generation being just as responsible. They had the longest longevity of any generation. I think an argument cold be made for too many younger generations voting a dictator into the office of president is a part of the problem. Or spending too much money on tattoos and lattes, spending too much time on the cell phone, and every kid needing to have their own TV could be considered reasons.
But I'm not for any of those generalizations. I think the problem is an American People issue.
I'm going to go and relax now. I have to work tomorrow.

Sorry if I came across as generalizing blame on boomers. It’s not their fault. It’s the ones in charge of financial responsibility for public pension plans underestimated the cost for years. And honestly, being able to retire at 55 and collect a full salary for 30 years seems a little ridiculous and unsustainable.
And you are right, younger generations spend too much on Starbucks, new iPhones every other year, etc.

Back in the nineties, here in NY, you had to “know someone” to get a teaching job in a good school district. So these government paying jobs were never accessible to the masses. The excuse for the absurdly above market pension, was they will never make what you can make in a private business. But the truth is a lot of teaching jobs, not all, are recession proof. The teachers I knew were getting solid raises during recession years while those of us working for private business, were getting laid off or skipping multiple years of getting raises. Yes, the pensions were ridiculous back then but that does not mean we can afford the same pensions now.

Still to this day teachers I know in their 50s, can retire younger than people in private business more often. And they could climb to the highest reaches of the salary ladder, without having a target on their back, like exists in private business. If you’re young, and you’re a teacher, come to New York and try to get in the union.

As far as one advantage people have who are younger now is DEI is creating a huge problem for older workers now. When companies decide to make decisions based on diversity, someone has to pay the price to facilitate their quota system. And usually that someone looks a lot like a man who’s playing for Pearl Jam, if they are wearing a golf or dress shirt

Tim Simmons · June 7

DEI is not a quota system

Lerxst1992 · June 7

Tim Simmons said:

DEI is not a quota system

If it quacks like a duck

” Diversity targets in hiring are specific, measurable, and achievable goals set to increase the representation of underrepresented groups within an organization. These targets can be focused on race, gender, or any other group, aiming to create a more inclusive and diverse workforce”

mace1229 · June 7

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Not because I'm a so-called "baby-boomer", or because I want to rant and rave at younger people, particularly so-called "gen-Z" people (don'tcha hate those labels?!)
No, more because I'm curious as to why it is such a thing these days. (If you don't think so, Google "Geb Z Ageism.)
A woman who is a friend and someone I used to work with who is 75 told me she is really bummed because she hears about it all the time. She has a used book store and still works as hard as she can to keep going. She recalled how when she and my wife were younger they struggled to make ends meet for many years. At that time, this friend lived it what had been a chicken coop and my wife at that time was living in a cabin that had no heat or running water.   I had similar experiences. I lived in a converted chicken coop for a couple of years when I was younger. I also lived in my van for a few years. I've never lived "high on the hog".
That same friend keeps hearing young people say they are angry with "boomers" because they had it so easy and took everything and now everything is fucked up for them now because of us. She also told me that a lot of these people voted for d.t. because he (himself born the first year of baby boomer generation) is going to make everything better for them.
Yes, I know there were some very career oriented and greedy boomers in Silicon Valley, but that's not how all of us were/are. I don't understand all this hatred. Shit, I'm almost 74 and it looks like I'm going to have to go back to work again soon. WTF? I supposedly "have everything"? I don't get it.

It’s obviously very generalized, but there is some truth in that.
look at pensions for public employees. Teachers retiring now are getting a much better pension that I will in 20 years. I’m paying more into it and getting less out of it. That’s the case for a lot of public pension plans.

Obviously not everyone, but a lot of people you’re age (you’re the exact age as my dad and he’s be befitted from it) were able to work and retire comfortably at 55 and live another 25-30 years or more. Anyone who is 40 now has no dream to retire as early as 55. We have to keep working to fund the pensions of those who did.

I must be hanging with the wrong peer crowd, lol. I only know one person my age who retired at age 55. I know several people my age who still work, mostly part-time, but if they didn't, they would have a difficult time of it. For example:

CB: Age 77. Gets work where and when able to, has had to move several time due to cost of rent.
N: Age 76. Works hard four days a week. Often comments on how hard it is to keep going.
C: Age 72. Works very part time, but has bills to pay and does not get much social security.
J: Age 82. Finally had to quit two years ago. Can't drive any more and is now living with one of the kids.
B. Mid 70's. Saw him working at Office Max a few years ago. Doing OK, but not great.
Me: Age 73, soon to be 74. Went back to work part time to pay for major unexpected car expenses from last month.

Honest to God, I don't know who all these people are that you say retired at 55. Must be nice. But honestly, that' not the norm.

Sorry bud, but none of what you say is a reason for ageism/ hatred of older people (not saying you do). I rest my case.

Of course it’s not an excuse for ageism, and I noticed you pointed out that’s not what I was saying.

I’d say it’s definitely the minority, but not that uncommon for boomers to have retired from 55-60. Those who got to work early and stayed in a single career definitely had a chance. My dad joined the sheriff dept at 22 and retired at 55 with 100% (or, I think actually 99%) pension. My uncle joined the dept around the same time and retired a year or so later.
I have friends whose parents are teachers, and if they started their career at 22,23,24 were able to retire before 60.
Teachers at my school who retire every year, red usually a few in the 55-60 range. Again, those who started right out of college and stuck with the career are able to retire after putting in 30 years.
I’m not “ageist” against them. But it is frustrating knowing they are retiring at an earlier age than I will be able to mostly because I am paying more into the system than they had to. I’m paying for their retirement. The reality of the situation is frustrating. They underestimated the cost and the longevity of their retirement, so we’re paying the difference now.

Maybe it’s because I know more law enforcement through family and family friends than most, and through education because of my job, and those are 2 careers with state pensions, I see it more than you do. Unless you’re going into politics and running for sheriff or something, cops don’t work into their 60s. You’re an old cop at 55.

Look, I am saddened that the future outlook is not as good as it could/ should be for younger generations.
But as I said, I'm not accusing you of being ageist. I just think blaming "boomers" as being responsible for difficulties younger generations are having it is too much generalizing. I think an argument could be made for the G.I. generation being just as responsible. They had the longest longevity of any generation. I think an argument cold be made for too many younger generations voting a dictator into the office of president is a part of the problem. Or spending too much money on tattoos and lattes, spending too much time on the cell phone, and every kid needing to have their own TV could be considered reasons.
But I'm not for any of those generalizations. I think the problem is an American People issue.
I'm going to go and relax now. I have to work tomorrow.

Sorry if I came across as generalizing blame on boomers. It’s not their fault. It’s the ones in charge of financial responsibility for public pension plans underestimated the cost for years. And honestly, being able to retire at 55 and collect a full salary for 30 years seems a little ridiculous and unsustainable.
And you are right, younger generations spend too much on Starbucks, new iPhones every other year, etc.

Back in the nineties, here in NY, you had to “know someone” to get a teaching job in a good school district. So these government paying jobs were never accessible to the masses. The excuse for the absurdly above market pension, was they will never make what you can make in a private business. But the truth is a lot of teaching jobs, not all, are recession proof. The teachers I knew were getting solid raises during recession years while those of us working for private business, were getting laid off or skipping multiple years of getting raises. Yes, the pensions were ridiculous back then but that does not mean we can afford the same pensions now.

Still to this day teachers I know in their 50s, can retire younger than people in private business more often. And they could climb to the highest reaches of the salary ladder, without having a target on their back, like exists in private business. If you’re young, and you’re a teacher, come to New York and try to get in the union.

As far as one advantage people have who are younger now is DEI is creating a huge problem for older workers now. When companies decide to make decisions based on diversity, someone has to pay the price to facilitate their quota system. And usually that someone looks a lot like a man who’s playing for Pearl Jam, if they are wearing a golf or dress shirt

Teachers retiring now, for a large part, have better pensions than those who will be retiring in 10 or 20 years.
If you search retirement systems for teachers by state, many will say teachers hired before X will get 2.75% a year, teachers hired after X will receive 2% a year, or something like that. And that date is usually somewhere around 2008-2012. Not only that, but every couple of years we get a notice that they are increasing our contributing by about 0.25% of our pay. They also recalculate how they determine your base salary (average of top 5 years instead of top 2). So they’re taking more out of newer teachers and giving them less in return.

As far as climbing that ladder, I don’t know what it was like in NY when other states had freezes. But many other states had pay freezes, where you did not advance on the salary schedule for several years. Or if they did, they took it out in other ways. In 2020 my district was bragging that they were the only district in the area that didn’t have a pay freeze, but they reduced benefit contribution by $500/month, which was significantly larger than any raise I ever got. My pay actually went down by like $300/month after that “raise.” But on paper they announced to the entire community that teachers got raises that year.
My wife taught in NY before we met. Her first day as a teacher was 9/10/2001 in Brooklyn, just on the other side of the bridge. More than half of her paycheck would go towards rent. And she rented a 2 bedroom apt with 3 people. It was a terrible school and got assaulted more than once. She left after 2 or 3 years. So there’s a reason their salary is higher than most.
She does have teacher friends still there who got into good schools. They weren’t connected, just got lucky I guess. But they all have spouses in finance and make far more than any teacher.

PJ_Soul · June 8

When I go to restaurants with my mother, the servers almost always default to treating me like I'm in control. They address me first, they look too me for answers to anything, they talk to me when giving information. My 79 year old mom is basically treated like a child. It's really really obvious. Of course my mom and I talk about it - it bothers her a lot, and she fully understands it's just because she's old.

Halifax2TheMax · June 8

PJ_Soul said:

When I go to restaurants with my mother, the servers almost always default to treating me like I'm in control. They address me first, they look too me for answers to anything, they talk to me when giving information. My 79 year old mom is basically treated like a child. It's really really obvious. Of course my mom and I talk about it - it bothers her a lot, and she fully understands it's just because she's old.

My dad said that when he hit his mid 70s that he became “invisible.”

brianlux · June 8

PJ_Soul said:

When I go to restaurants with my mother, the servers almost always default to treating me like I'm in control. They address me first, they look too me for answers to anything, they talk to me when giving information. My 79 year old mom is basically treated like a child. It's really really obvious. Of course my mom and I talk about it - it bothers her a lot, and she fully understands it's just because she's old.

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJ_Soul said:

When I go to restaurants with my mother, the servers almost always default to treating me like I'm in control. They address me first, they look too me for answers to anything, they talk to me when giving information. My 79 year old mom is basically treated like a child. It's really really obvious. Of course my mom and I talk about it - it bothers her a lot, and she fully understands it's just because she's old.

My dad said that when he hit his mid 70s that he became “invisible.”

Sad stories, both.

I'm so glad I learned from my parents to treat the elderly with respect. I may not exactly be young any more, but I have the good fortune to look a little younger than I am, so I can approach an truly elderly person as a younger person and let them know that they are acknowledged and appreciated. For better or for worse, they are our legacy, and the good things we enjoy were created by their efforts.

Can we talk about ageism?

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