#47 President Donald Trump

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  • KatKat Posts: 4,930
    Closed for review
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • KatKat Posts: 4,930
    edited January 27

    Talking about each other. See sticky above.

    Constant Taunting. 

    Insults.

    Really? No discussions about the topic? 

    Discussion is what this forum is about.

    Off-topic, insulting and rude posts have been deleted.

    Post edited by Kat on
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,890
    the consistent take downs and owns of this loser are going to be eipc:

    Episcopalian Church's response to Trump:
    Hayden Vaughn
    "President Trump,
    1. Much like those who do not want you to be president, you do not get to decide whether a bishop’s office is legitimate. She was chosen by the people of her diocese to be their bishop. Then, she was granted consent to be a bishop by other bishops and standing committees of our church’s dioceses. Beginning by calling her a “so-called” bishop is an obvious low blow to discredit her as a person, rather than what she said that you disagree with. The Episcopal Church was legitimate enough to hold your third wedding, the funeral of Melania’s mother, and the baptism of your son, Barron. Barron also attended an Episcopal day school. Now you have an issue with how we do things when it doesn’t go your way?
    2. You didn’t have an issue with politics being brought into the church by the ministers who spoke at your inauguration, or by yourself for that matter. They were blatantly partisan, crediting God for your political success: “Mr. President, the last four years there were times I'm sure you thought it was pretty dark, but look what God has done," Graham said.
    3. She wasn’t nasty in tone, plain and simple. I can’t remember ever hearing a homily given in such a gracious manner and calm tone. If you disagree, listen to her speak. You may disagree with what she said, but her tone was in no way “nasty.” Additionally, insulting her intelligence, rather than quoting what you disagree with, is a very typical narcissistic play.
    4. The vast majority of people who have committed crimes in the U.S. are U.S. citizens. Defending yourself about being asked to have mercy on immigrants by saying, “A large number of illegal migrants came into our country and killed people,” is a gross misrepresentation and does not make sense. By that logic, we should be locking up or deporting all Americans because the majority of crimes were committed by citizens. We do need to improve our immigration system, but Scripture commands us as Christians to have mercy. Mercy is a central tenet of our faith. Matthew 5:7 says, “Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Leviticus 19:33-34 says, “When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.” If you take issue with this, take it up with God.
    5. Saying the service was boring and uninspiring is a move to discredit the event rather than what specifically was said. However, it’s worth mentioning that the purpose of a service is not to be “exciting.” There are several purposes for our services, such as honoring God, bringing us closer to God, and being in community with one another. Being “exciting” is not one of them. As far as inspiration goes, that is in the eye of the beholder. You get as much out of it as you put into it.
    6. The Bishop does not owe you an apology. Our church does not owe you an apology. All that you were asked to do is what scripture directly asks us to do. If you could quote one thing she asked of you that isn’t asked of us in scripture, we would apologize. Someone recently reminded me of something I often heard growing up in church. If you are offended by a minister’s sermon or feel that it was a personal attack, look to see if you can find anything they said that was out of line with scripture and the teachings of Jesus. If you can’t, that feeling is what we call “being convicted of your sin”. The fact you are offended by what was said shows you know there is truth in it. To your supporters who also feel offended by it, the same goes."
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • RoleModelsinBlood31RoleModelsinBlood31 Austin TX Posts: 6,186
    Trump’s living rent free in that dude’s dome, that’s for sure.  Dude probably spends all day wailing about trump, spitting angry and finally got something he could put on paper about him.  I’m imagining him stomping around his house arms flailing yelling about the Orangeman Bad.  I love me some good adult meltdowns.  Public freakout on Reddit is some addicting stuff, people.  You’ve been warned!
    I'm like an opening band for your mom.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,645
    Dan Rather has started a  segment of his Steady blog called "Courage 2025" in which he will be citing example of brave souls working to battle "Trump’s dystopian intent".  This is terrific!


    Forwarded this email? Subscribe here for more

    Lessons in Courage

    A tall order, but we’ve found some worthy teachers

    Jan 28

    It would be oh-so-easy to delineate every startling, norm-crushing, demoralizing thing that President Trump is doing. And trust me, there will be plenty of that to report on in the coming months. But today we are going in a different direction. Less apocalyptic, more inspiring.

    In what will be a periodic series on Steady called Courage 2025, we will spotlight resisters: people and organizations that are not bowing to Trump’s dystopian intent but rather actively and openly battling it.

    FOR FILLING A VOID
    The Trump administration has taken down several government websites, including a Spanish language version of the The White House website and a page on WhiteHouse.gov dedicated to the Constitution. It also removed ReproductiveHealth.gov. The latter site was launched by the Biden administration to provide information about women’s rights to abortion and contraception since the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

    So that women still have access to this vital information, the media company theSkimm bought the web address reproductiverightsdotgov.com, which now redirects to a page on theSkimm site containing the information the government site did on the day it was taken down. The company will update it as needed.

    FOR EMBRACING DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION (DEI)
    It is no secret that Donald Trump isn’t a fan of DEI programs. He has spent the past week dismantling any hint of DEI within the federal government.

    One of the dozens of executive orders he signed called for the Office of Personnel Management, the government’s human resources department, to end all DEI programming. He also revoked a 60-year-old executive order signed by President Lyndon Johnson that banned discrimination in hiring practices in the federal government.

    As if by magic, many corporations whose CEOs have bent the knee to Trump have also announced an end to their DEI initiatives. Among the companies: Amazon, Meta, Google, Walmart, McDonald’s, Target, and Ford.

    Not all of corporate America is as spineless. Dozens of companies from very different sectors of the economy have flatly and loudly refused to go along with Trump’s anti-DEI crusade.

    Costco, which was being pressured by an outside consulting group to end its DEI practices, asked shareholders to vote on the proposal. An overwhelming 98% said they wanted the big-box retailer to maintain its programs. “We have always been purposefully nonpolitical, and a welcoming workforce has been integral to the company's culture and values since its founding,” said Costco’s board chair, Hamilton “Tony” James.

    The popular cosmetics and skincare company e.l.f. is also sticking with its robust DEI programs. The company says that its employee base and loyal customers, who are young and diverse, made it an easy decision. The company’s board is a reflection of its commitment to DEI. It is made up of 78% women and 44% people of color.

    The banking industry is not known for its progressive bent, but this week two banking titans have recommitted to DEI: JPMorganChase and Goldman Sachs. At the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, both Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan and David Solomon of Goldman Sachs said they will continue to seek diverse talent in spite of the president’s actions.

    Apple, Bank of America, Marriott, Microsoft, Procter & Gamble, Delta, and Catholic Health have reportedly said they are reinforcing their commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion as well.

    FOR STANDING UP TO THE BULLY-IN-CHIEF
    The day after inauguration, the new president traditionally attends an interfaith prayer service at the Washington National Cathedral. This year the televised homily was delivered by Bishop Mariann Budde, who has been the Bishop of Washington since 2011.

    Budde addressed Trump, who was sitting in the front row, directly. “Mr. President, millions have put their trust in you. And as you told the nation yesterday, you have felt the providential hand of a loving God. In the name of our God, I ask you to have mercy on the people in our country who are scared now.”

    The look on the president’s face was worth more than a thousand words. To put it succinctly, he was displeased.

    After the service, he vilified Budde on Truth Social as a “Radical Left hard line Trump hater” and demanded an apology — an apology for being asked to be merciful, while sitting in a church. Budde, mercifully, declined to respond.

    Share


    FOR FIGHTING FOR CHANGE UNTIL THE END
    Cecile Richards was many things: a lifelong warrior for women’s reproductive rights; a former president of Planned Parenthood; the founder of the Texas Freedom Network, a watchdog group monitoring the religious right; and a friend of mine.

    Even after she was diagnosed with a brain tumor, she started “Abortion in America,” an effort to utilize TikTok and Instagram to amplify stories of women impacted by abortion bans and restrictions. In an interview with the Texas Observer just before her death, Richards said, “Stories, told and retold, are the key to igniting change.” Last week the world lost a world-class fighter. Richards died on Monday at the age of 67.

    If you see examples of resisters, please let us know in the comments.

    To support my team’s efforts to protect our democracy through the power of independent journalism, please consider joining as a paid subscriber. It keeps Steady sustainable and accessible for all. Thank you.

    No matter how you subscribe, I thank you for reading.

    Dan




    "Don't give in to the lies.  Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth.  And to hope."
    -Jim Acosta











  • sheckyshecky San Francisco Posts: 2,295
    Trump’s living rent free in that dude’s dome, that’s for sure.  Dude probably spends all day wailing about trump, spitting angry and finally got something he could put on paper about him.  I’m imagining him stomping around his house arms flailing yelling about the Orangeman Bad.  I love me some good adult meltdowns.  Public freakout on Reddit is some addicting stuff, people.  You’ve been warned!
    "Adult meltdowns" and "public freakouts".
    Not my bag, dad.
    I've never checked out Reddit, nor TikTok for that matter.
    Nope, AMT is all I need.



  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,890
    Trump’s living rent free in that dude’s dome, that’s for sure.  Dude probably spends all day wailing about trump, spitting angry and finally got something he could put on paper about him.  I’m imagining him stomping around his house arms flailing yelling about the Orangeman Bad.  I love me some good adult meltdowns.  Public freakout on Reddit is some addicting stuff, people.  You’ve been warned!
    what the hell are you talking about?
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,056
    Trump’s living rent free in that dude’s dome, that’s for sure.  Dude probably spends all day wailing about trump, spitting angry and finally got something he could put on paper about him.  I’m imagining him stomping around his house arms flailing yelling about the Orangeman Bad.  I love me some good adult meltdowns.  Public freakout on Reddit is some addicting stuff, people.  You’ve been warned!
    Yeah, what an unhinged and angry response that was 🤔. Weird christian cult followers unite in the defense of a life long unrepentant conman.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,975
    tbergs said:
    Trump’s living rent free in that dude’s dome, that’s for sure.  Dude probably spends all day wailing about trump, spitting angry and finally got something he could put on paper about him.  I’m imagining him stomping around his house arms flailing yelling about the Orangeman Bad.  I love me some good adult meltdowns.  Public freakout on Reddit is some addicting stuff, people.  You’ve been warned!
    Yeah, what an unhinged and angry response that was 🤔. Weird christian cult followers unite in the defense of a life long unrepentant conman.
    TDS at its best
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,445
    I don’t take monkeys seriously 😂 who’s going to make his pizza when all the illegals he has working for him are booted out? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,890
    Trump wants to fine cable networks that air late night television shows that make fun of him. I’m sorry…fascist says what? 

    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,445
    Trump wants to fine cable networks that air late night television shows that make fun of him. I’m sorry…fascist says what? 

    Whiniest piece of 💩 ever and he’s so thin skinned he might as well be see through 😂 all he does whaaa whaaa whaaa 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,172
    Trump wants to fine cable networks that air late night television shows that make fun of him. I’m sorry…fascist says what? 

    Whiniest piece of 💩 ever and he’s so thin skinned he might as well be see through 😂 all he does whaaa whaaa whaaa 
    so fucking strange...you know it's driving him crazy though. There is all kinds of stuff on TikTok making fun of him which will probably lead to him shutting it down lol
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,975
    Trump wants to fine cable networks that air late night television shows that make fun of him. I’m sorry…fascist says what? 

    Immature narcissistic petulant spoiled infant
  • gotthebottlegotthebottle San Diego Posts: 2,952
    DICTATOR 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,202
    DICTATOR 
    hits the cult quicker though.  rip the fucking band-aid off....

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,886
    mickeyrat said:
    DICTATOR 
    hits the cult quicker though.  rip the fucking band-aid off....

    Looks like a whole lot people are going to have to start pulling themselves up by their boot straps. 

    I'm sure middle America is going to be just fine. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,847
    mickeyrat said:
    DICTATOR 
    hits the cult quicker though.  rip the fucking band-aid off....

    Looks like a whole lot people are going to have to start pulling themselves up by their boot straps. 

    I'm sure middle America is going to be just fine. 
    When does hurricane season begin?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,534
    I avoided this thread at first because there's already too many trump threads to keep up with. But once a thread gets closed for review, the temptation is too great to not venture in.
    While entertaining, I'll ask the same questions. DO we really need about 4 threads to post trump memes?
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,293
    As a resident of one of the country's 10 donor states, what the fuck?

    And of course the biggest donor state is California and the plan is just to take California's money, give it to states that are actually poorly run and shit on them because 60% of the people voted incorrectly.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 41,202
    OnWis97 said:
    As a resident of one of the country's 10 donor states, what the fuck?

    And of course the biggest donor state is California and the plan is just to take California's money, give it to states that are actually poorly run and shit on them because 60% of the people voted incorrectly.

    yes. that is the current way of doing business. has been for years.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,172
    mace1229 said:
    I avoided this thread at first because there's already too many trump threads to keep up with. But once a thread gets closed for review, the temptation is too great to not venture in.
    While entertaining, I'll ask the same questions. DO we really need about 4 threads to post trump memes?
    yes
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • KatKat Posts: 4,930
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,056
    Banning trans people from serving in the military. Does that make us safer or lower our costs? Of course not, but chalk up another victory in the culture war of stupidity.

    The costs turn out to be very low. DHA's data showed that the military spent $15 million over five years on surgeries, hormones, and psychotherapy for transgender personnel, or about $3 million per year. This cost was considered to be "budget dust" by military leadership, according to former Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus. (In contrast, the Department of Defense spent nearly $300 million on erectile dysfunction medications, including Viagra, for military beneficiaries including retirees between 2011 and 2015.)

    Trump's executive order could ban transgender troops in the military : Shots - Health News : NPR https://search.app/VNoQN3iCBdRtjEMQ7
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,645
    Kat said:

    Hero! 
    Maybe we could have an AMT thread about Heroes defending democracy- a place to acknowledge people like Acosta, Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, Heather Cox Richardson and so forth.  I no longer start threads here, so if someone wants to run with this, so for it!
    "Don't give in to the lies.  Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth.  And to hope."
    -Jim Acosta











  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,890
    fuck the president is such a fucking loser. We all know what the following means: Trump got irritated by Acosta standing up to him and he's jealous of the accolades he got in his position. 

    “Jim is a major loser who will fail no matter where he ends up,” Trump said on Truth Social.
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • sheckyshecky San Francisco Posts: 2,295

    At her first White House press briefing on Monday, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt announced the Trump administration was rolling out major changes to make room for newer, less traditional media voices in the briefing room.

    Leavitt told reporters these changes were being made to keep in line with President Donald Trump's "revolutionary media approach" that he deployed during his campaign in speaking to popular podcast hosts and social media influencers.

    "In keeping with this revolutionary media approach that President Trump deployed during the campaign, the Trump White House will speak to all media outlets and personalities, not just the legacy media who are seated in this room," she began before citing Gallup polls showing Americans' low confidence in the mainstream media.

    "Millions of Americans, especially young people, have turned from traditional television outlets and newspapers to consume their news from podcasts, blogs, social media and other independent outlets," Leavitt continued. "It’s essential to our team that we share President Trump‘s message everywhere and adapt this White House to the new media landscape in 2025."

    Leavitt announced steps the Trump administration was taking to accomplish this, beginning with restoring the press passes for 440 journalists whose passes she said "were wrongly revoked" by the Biden administration.

    The briefing room will also now be opened up to "new media voices who produce news-related content" and outlets who haven't been welcomed into the briefing room previously, she said.

    "We welcome independent journalists, podcasters, social media influencers and content creators to apply for credentials to cover this White House," Leavitt said, directing these media voices to the White House's website to apply. 

    The press secretary announced the seat in the front of the briefing room would now be known as the "new media seat," reserved for eligible new media applicants who meet the criteria.

    "Our first questions for today‘s briefing will go to these new media members whose outlets, despite being some of the most viewed news websites in the country, have not been given seats in this room," Leavitt said, before taking her first questions from Axios reporter Mike Allen and Breitbart reporter Matt Boyle.

    "It is a fact that Americans are consuming their news media from various different platforms, especially young people," Leavitt said. "As the youngest press secretary in history, thanks to President Trump, I take great pride in opening up this room to new media voices to share the president‘s message with as many Americans as possible," she added before extending an invitation again to "legitimate independent journalists" to cover the new administration.

    Leavitt said it was a priority for the White House to honor the first amendment and said she took "great pride" in opening up the briefing room to new media voices.

    Exciting times in Trump's briefing room! Members of the "new media" are now being given access, not just the lame stream media!

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,645
    fuck the president is such a fucking loser. We all know what the following means: Trump got irritated by Acosta standing up to him and he's jealous of the accolades he got in his position. 

    “Jim is a major loser who will fail no matter where he ends up,” Trump said on Truth Social.

    Yep.  Yet another tantrum.  He hates losing the spotlight for even a second. 
    "Don't give in to the lies.  Don't give in to the fear. Hold on to the truth.  And to hope."
    -Jim Acosta











  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,890
    😂 can’t wait for a question about aliens from joe rogan 
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




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