If PJ Premium didn't exist, and there was tiered pricing, the shows would sell out in advance

Go Animal

You know it's true.

None of us should have to pay more than face value ($175-189).

None of us should have to eat a ticket. 

Something's gotta give.

oharajohn83

Yeah, it could also be an open free for all to
the highest bidder. Agree it isn’t perfect - not by a long shot - but they do try.

Go Animal

Wrigley & Fenway would've still sold out!

Nose bleeds for $75 would have sold out Fenway earlier in the year. Guaranteed. 

Can't make it? Let us sell the ticket for what we paid, or less. 

Like baseball games, SOMEBODY will buy a $40-$50 ticket. They'll make plans, go to the show, buy merch, buy a beer.

"Oh, shit! Pearl Jam for $40? Shit, I'll give that a shot. Haven't heard them since Jeremy!" Who cares if it's a lapsed fan. Money will be spent!

For MONTHS, it was bone dry. Premium only. People decide not to travel, or make time for the show. Not for that price (let alone $550-1400)

Again, no one want to pay upwards of $189 for the peanut gallery. 

And now? People are giving away tickets. 

PJ Premium & holding back blocks of tickets DOESN'T WORK.

Go Animal

oharajohn83 said:

Yeah, it could also be an open free for all to
the highest bidder. Agree it isn’t perfect - not by a long shot - but they do try.

They did try. And the current system just doesn't work.

oharajohn83

For big stadium shows that’s fair - maybe they should adjust. Arenas are crazy up until the last minute.

danofun

These threads exist because tickets are transferable and there are 70,000 seats across 2 nights. That being said, friends don't let friends but Premium..

Go Animal

oharajohn83 said:

For big stadium shows that’s fair - maybe they should adjust. Arenas are crazy up until the last minute.

Vancouver, Portland, Sacramento, and LA 1&2 didn't sell out. They still had blue dots on the day of show, and Fan-to-Fans that weren't going to sell.

Hell, Baltimore was tough ticket outside of MSG, and they had tickets available on day of show.

I'll give you MSG & Philly. MAYBE Seattle. But everywhere else? PJ Premium is more of a deterrent than anything.

Go Animal

danofun said:

These threads exist because tickets are transferable and there are 70,000 seats across 2 nights. That being said, friends don't let friends but Premium..

I had a ticket for tonight & thankfully sold it for what I paid. I got lucky. Some others? Not so much.

More people would made plans to see the band, if the price was right. $59-69 for nosebleeds would mean more people buying food, drink & merch.

Ticket range should've been $59 (nosebleeds)-$179 for field, and $249 (GA).

And not turning on transfer option til 24 hrs before? Sheesh... so much pressure. 

danofun

Go Animal said:

danofun said:

These threads exist because tickets are transferable and there are 70,000 seats across 2 nights. That being said, friends don't let friends but Premium..

I had a ticket for tonight & thankfully sold it for what I paid. I got lucky. Some others? Not so much.

More people would made plans to see the band, if the price was right. $59-69 for nosebleeds would mean more people buying food, drink & merch.

Ticket range should've been $59 (nosebleeds)-$179 for field, and $249 (GA).

And not turning on transfer option til 24 hrs before? Sheesh... so much pressure. 

Were all 10C tickets to Fenway $175? Face value on MLB for many of the seats were $59.

Go Animal

Worst case scenario: you buy 2 nosebleed tickets at $59. $160ish after fees.

And you can't go. You post them on a 3rd party site for that much. They sell, or they don't. You drop the price. Maybe you lose half what you paid ($80).

Hell, let's say they don't sell at all! You're only out $160.

Current system? Some of our fellow fans are going to be out $180 PER ticket. A lot of these threads could amount to the equivalent of lighting $360 on fire.

That's not right.

Go Animal

danofun said:

Go Animal said:

danofun said:

These threads exist because tickets are transferable and there are 70,000 seats across 2 nights. That being said, friends don't let friends but Premium..

I had a ticket for tonight & thankfully sold it for what I paid. I got lucky. Some others? Not so much.

More people would made plans to see the band, if the price was right. $59-69 for nosebleeds would mean more people buying food, drink & merch.

Ticket range should've been $59 (nosebleeds)-$179 for field, and $249 (GA).

And not turning on transfer option til 24 hrs before? Sheesh... so much pressure. 

Were all 10C tickets to Fenway $175? Face value on MLB for many of the seats were $59.

Yes, all 10C were $175. Anything less than that was direct from Fenway's website/app.

Go Animal

The cheapest 10C ticket was lawn at Noblesville for about $85. So there is precedent! Those sold out, and did very well up til day of show! Noblesville still sold out!

tomccfc87

You say that but the cancelled London show this year had both premium and tiered price tickets and it was the premium that sold out whilst the cheap nosebleed seats still had plenty of tickets left even after they slashed the prices to £50.

I hate how much ticket prices have gone up but the reality of the situation is that the market has now shown that there will always be enough people who will pay over-inflated ticket prices. From ticketmasters point of view why charge $150 for a ticket when people have shown they will pay $500+? Realistically abolishing premium tickets won't bring prices down on the most expensive tickets it will bring up the prices of the cheapest tickets. Before premium tickets became a thing there was often little to no difference between the prices of the best and worst tickets and the most in demand tickets will always set the overall price point. 

Realistically the only way that ticket prices come down is if people stop paying for them.

Go Animal

They weren't 50e at the onsale. They dropped to that price gradually. 

If they were offered on a tiered level from the point of pre-sale? All seats would've been sold.

No one wants to pay 175 euros for back of the house.

Poncier

I think a big factor in all the folks dumping tickets is people shooting their shot hoping for GA, not getting it and then deciding they don't want to sit in the stands. They either try and upgrade and if successful dump (or try to) the lesser seats or just decide not to go (especially if coming from out of town) and try to dump seats.
Stadium shows are tough. Fan club members don't want to sit behind home plate in a baseball park (can't blame them). Solution is tough. Ten Club can decide to not take the huge allotment of tix, opting only for the best seats like the old days and more members can get shut out in the lottery or they can continue to try and get tix into the hands of as many members as possible.
Maybe go back to limiting how many shows you can get through the club, then everyone can get good seats to 1 or 2 shows and folks who want to hit an entire leg have to find tix through other means.

Go Animal

Poncier said:

I think a big factor in all the folks dumping tickets is people shooting their shot hoping for GA, not getting it and then deciding they don't want to sit in the stands. They either try and upgrade and if successful dump (or try to) the lesser seats or just decide not to go (especially if coming from out of town) and try to dump seats.

Stadium shows are tough. Fan club members don't want to sit behind home plate in a baseball park (can't blame them). Solution is tough. Ten Club can decide to not take the huge allotment of tix, opting only for the best seats like the old days and more members can get shut out in the lottery or they can continue to try and get tix into the hands of as many members as possible.

Maybe go back to limiting how many shows you can get through the club, then everyone can get good seats to 1 or 2 shows and folks who want to hit an entire leg have to find tix through other means.

All true.
1. Accurate.
2. I actually prefer the former, and let the org/TM sell the rest. No Premium or Platinum, option of resale for equal or lesser value. The 3rd party question is still tough. Might have to keep the no transfer option up through 24 hrs before day of show. No easy answer.
3. That, but the 10c also pushes this feature as a selling point for membership. 

Regardless, the hoarding til week-of has to stop (production holds aside, because you have to SEE the final stage layout)

danofun

Poncier said:

I think a big factor in all the folks dumping tickets is people shooting their shot hoping for GA, not getting it and then deciding they don't want to sit in the stands. They either try and upgrade and if successful dump (or try to) the lesser seats or just decide not to go (especially if coming from out of town) and try to dump seats.
Stadium shows are tough. Fan club members don't want to sit behind home plate in a baseball park (can't blame them). Solution is tough. Ten Club can decide to not take the huge allotment of tix, opting only for the best seats like the old days and more members can get shut out in the lottery or they can continue to try and get tix into the hands of as many members as possible.
Maybe go back to limiting how many shows you can get through the club, then everyone can get good seats to 1 or 2 shows and folks who want to hit an entire leg have to find tix through other means.

Well said. No system is perfect. The band sets ticket prices, not TM. And honestly, with the increased cost of touring, an aging fanbase with deeper pockets, a demand that appears to remain very strong, and this being a business that exist to turn a profit, I think they’ve done well to find a nice balance. The fact that there is a stated face value is refreshing in today’s landscape. Plus, 100% of the most coveted tickets, GA, go solely to the 10C. 10% of the seats (mostly the best non GA) being Premium sucks but it’s better than the 100% dynamic pricing we see as today’s norm.

F2F isn’t perfect but if you’re on these boards you’ve most likely benefitted. Without F2F every single drop would have gone directly to a 3rd party site, zero chance at improving your seats. Does it take time, yes. And we have learned when it is best to dedicate that time. PJ’s GA policy states, “It is the Ten Club’s position that those that put in the time to wait in the GA line all day should be the first in the door.” These same words apply to F2F. We and F2F have a love/hate relationship, but I promise you the grass isn’t always greener.

Cheers to you PJ for continuing to struggle over how to best manage ticketing in this challenging industry. Hopefully, in the coming years the ticketing platform is disassociated from the venue and artists are provided with ticketing choices. Until then, stay the course and thank you for continuing to value all of us. Cheers!

Pearlybaker

Go Animal said:

You know it's true.

None of us should have to pay more than face value ($175-189).

None of us should have to eat a ticket. 

Something's gotta give.

You are 100% correct - whoever is guiding their touring and pricing strategy should be fired. It’s embarrassing to the band and a threat to 10C membership when tickets are being given away in Europe and Boston. 

They have failed to understand that just like the band, their core audience is changing. The band is cutting show length, moving to a formula set list, and playing new material. This is great for their longevity but also makes the prospect of people/couples traveling to shows less than it used to be 10 years ago. 

There was a shift in the audience demographics around 2016 and it ain’t never coming back. 

tomccfc87

Go Animal said:

They weren't 50e at the onsale. They dropped to that price gradually. 

If they were offered on a tiered level from the point of pre-sale? All seats would've been sold.

No one wants to pay 175 euros for back of the house.

They were tiered from the point of onsale. Front circle cost the most with prices for rear standing being less and seated tickets getting less the further you were from stage. They didn't fill the stadium then and had to keep slashing prices and still couldn't fill it.

tomccfc87

Pearlybaker said:

Go Animal said:

You know it's true.

None of us should have to pay more than face value ($175-189).

None of us should have to eat a ticket. 

Something's gotta give.

You are 100% correct - whoever is guiding their touring and pricing strategy should be fired. It’s embarrassing to the band and a threat to 10C membership when tickets are being given away in Europe and Boston. 

They have failed to understand that just like the band, their core audience is changing. The band is cutting show length, moving to a formula set list, and playing new material. This is great for their longevity but also makes the prospect of people/couples traveling to shows less than it used to be 10 years ago. 

There was a shift in the audience demographics around 2016 and it ain’t never coming back. 

Ultimately it's ticketmaster who set the prices. The band has some scope for pushback but not much. They already lost the fight to ticketmaster once and other bands that have tried to fight ticketmaster over pricing have had limited success. Only really the Cure got anything out of fighting them and all they achieved was $5-10 refunds for fans. 

At this point all a band can really do is play non-ticket master venues, which effectively rules out almost all of the worlds biggest venues. It's ultimately up to the fans to draw a line in the sand and refuse to pay such high prices whilst also pushing their elected officials to take action to break ticketmaster's monopoly on venues and outlaw anti-consumer practices like dynamic pricing. And even then there is a risk that banning dynamic pricing will just result in increased face value on prices to balance out the average fee paid per ticket. Ultimately ticketmaster doesn't care if the venue is half empty if those that do come are happy to pay twice as much or more. If anything 10,000 people each paying $200 works out far better for them than 20,000 people each paying $100. Half any many people means they don't have to pay as many security guys, merch sellers, bar staff, etc, they don't have to open the venue as early to get everyone in so those they do hire to work the show they don't have to pay for any many hours.

DJ253147

Go Animal said:

oharajohn83 said:

For big stadium shows that’s fair - maybe they should adjust. Arenas are crazy up until the last minute.

Vancouver, Portland, Sacramento, and LA 1&2 didn't sell out. They still had blue dots on the day of show, and Fan-to-Fans that weren't going to sell.

Hell, Baltimore was tough ticket outside of MSG, and they had tickets available on day of show.

I'll give you MSG & Philly. MAYBE Seattle. But everywhere else? PJ Premium is more of a deterrent than anything.

FWIW we had plans to attend both Vancouver shows(May 4 and 6) which in the end we did. 2 shows for Vancouver was great but probably a bit too many seats for the population here. After seeing the 10c fan club map and how many of our favourite seats(side stage) vs. how many seated floor tickets were available which are my last choice, (I’d rather be back stage) I decided to just put in for the Saturday show. Got a good seated pair with my 404,xxx# and just used those.

Here’s where it gets interesting. I tried to get a code for Night 2 from TM with no luck at all. Later that evening in Feb. the only  tix TM had available were somewhere around $500.00 and up. Go figure. Thanks to the advice around here and many years of chasing tix I just waited and caught a ticket drop with a week to go and wound up with great side stage tickets at cost.(better than my 10c)

I’m not complaining about 209.00 CDN for a “good” ticket but totally agree  that a tiered price structure should be considered.

 For the 2013 tour I was able to get an extra TM pair for 2 friends(very knowledgeable all around music fans pre 1990 though new to PJ). Those 2013 tix were around $80.00 but 209.00 is a big chunk for a new to PJ person. 

KJ228171

tomccfc87 said:

Pearlybaker said:

Go Animal said:

You know it's true.

None of us should have to pay more than face value ($175-189).

None of us should have to eat a ticket. 

Something's gotta give.

You are 100% correct - whoever is guiding their touring and pricing strategy should be fired. It’s embarrassing to the band and a threat to 10C membership when tickets are being given away in Europe and Boston. 

They have failed to understand that just like the band, their core audience is changing. The band is cutting show length, moving to a formula set list, and playing new material. This is great for their longevity but also makes the prospect of people/couples traveling to shows less than it used to be 10 years ago. 

There was a shift in the audience demographics around 2016 and it ain’t never coming back. 

Ultimately it's ticketmaster who set the prices. The band has some scope for pushback but not much. 

Absolutely not. It’s the band and management that has the final say. The Foo Fighters just finished a tour through baseball stadiums. They set the prices into tiers with just a portion allowed for Platinum pricing. Upper tiers no dynamic pricing. Springsteen had to give them the go ahead to do Platinum prices. Rage Against the Machine set a price cap. Robert Smith of the Cure made sure that there were $25 tickets last summer and he had his most successful tour ever. Taylor Swift has the best selling tour ever. Guess what? Tiered pricing. Artists have ultimate control over prices.

The band is absolutely free to make the best business decisions for themselves. That doesn’t absolve them of criticism from fans.

DJ253147

KJ228171 said:

tomccfc87 said:

Pearlybaker said:

Go Animal said:

You know it's true.

None of us should have to pay more than face value ($175-189).

None of us should have to eat a ticket. 

Something's gotta give.

You are 100% correct - whoever is guiding their touring and pricing strategy should be fired. It’s embarrassing to the band and a threat to 10C membership when tickets are being given away in Europe and Boston. 

They have failed to understand that just like the band, their core audience is changing. The band is cutting show length, moving to a formula set list, and playing new material. This is great for their longevity but also makes the prospect of people/couples traveling to shows less than it used to be 10 years ago. 

There was a shift in the audience demographics around 2016 and it ain’t never coming back. 

Ultimately it's ticketmaster who set the prices. The band has some scope for pushback but not much. 

Absolutely not. It’s the band and management that has the final say. The Foo Fighters just finished a tour through baseball stadiums. They set the prices into tiers with just a portion allowed for Platinum pricing. Upper tiers no dynamic pricing. Springsteen had to give them the go ahead to do Platinum prices. Rage Against the Machine set a price cap. Robert Smith of the Cure made sure that there were $25 tickets last summer and he had his most successful tour ever. Taylor Swift has the best selling tour ever. Guess what? Tiered pricing. Artists have ultimate control over prices.

The band is absolutely free to make the best business decisions for themselves. That doesn’t absolve them of criticism from fans.

I was keeping an eye on the F.F. Seattle show 
for a friend in early August. There were definitely plenty of inexpensive tickets available.
Some deep side stage were just $99.00

OceansJenny

The band can turn off dynamic pricing. I agree with whoever said the ticket pricing person for PJ should be fired.

Transfer restrictions should be turned OFF for tickets over $300.

SHZA

Those are big ifs

Lerxst1992

The options seem to be either:

Premium tickets, or

tiered pricing with VERY expensive GA/ close lowers, or

much higher face value for majority of locations.


the irony against the forum’s dislike against the premium tickets is that is what makes the legacy seating policy possible, otherwise that revenue would need to be made up by getting market value for the best locations instead of the historical policy of selling them at way below market value. That decision bears cost.

Go Animal

Lerxst1992 said:

The options seem to be either:

Premium tickets, or

tiered pricing with VERY expensive GA/ close lowers, or

much higher face value for majority of locations.


the irony against the forum’s dislike against the premium tickets is that is what makes the legacy seating policy possible, otherwise that revenue would need to be made up by getting market value for the best locations instead of the historical policy of selling them at way below market value. That decision bears cost.

It does, but it's a cost that's weighed by an operation that's very entrenched. The band (Ed, I think) referenced this in the Zane interview that they "have to keep the machine running" with these small tours.

This is a situation a lot of seasoned bands find themselves in where they have X amount of crew that they want to keep fed. When you work for PJ, you tend to be there for life (unless you find a higher paying gig, or straight up retire), and the guys are very mindful of that.

I would counter that there's still room to rethink the ticket pricing situation without making labor/operating cuts. Legacy seating SHOULD be tied into the current iteration of a 10C membership, and no 10C member should pay $175 or higher for a seat in the 200's & 300's of any given venue.

My original point, was not every arena is selling out. And selling each ticket for the same price is a direct result of that.

Baseballs teams are no stranger to this, which is why they have family 4-packs & themed nights. If the LA shows in '22 & '24 had tiered pricing, or a 4-pack deal? They would sell the place out each time.

If some lapsed fan has their interest piqued, and they log on to TM & see $175/ticket in the 200's, they're gonna stay home. If they see 4 seats in a row for $200-250? They're gonna make plans & bring the whole fam, or 4 friends, and they're going to buy merch, pretzels & have an AMAZING time.

But you can't sell things in the arena to an unsold seat.

I study each show on TM & the resale sites up through the 11th hour, and the only places that sold out, were MSG & Philly (and even Philly had a handful of blue dots by show time). I wasn't able to look at Baltimore in the PM, but I assume it sold out.

I think it's time to raise the price on GA, Floor, and band side lowers, and work backwards, lowering the price as an incentive to come to the show. That, and give everyone the option to resell at face, or lower. That way, the band & TM still keep the original purchase price, but no one has to eat a ticket.

danofun

I think you’re looking at this backwards. Unless demand completely tanks, which it has not, they’re
 not going to lower the price of anything. Premium seating was the compromise and how they’ve justified keeping to cost of GA, floor, and side stage seats that go to the 10C the same price as the back of the house.

Go Animal

danofun said:

I think you’re looking at this backwards. Unless demand completely tanks, which it has not, they’re
 not going to lower the price of anything. Premium seating was the compromise and how they’ve justified keeping to cost of GA, floor, and side stage seats that go to the 10C the same price as the back of the house.

Love the band, but I hope that's not the case. The only 200's section that I can justify for $175 & up is MSG.

Also, like Robert Smith said, Premium is a choice. Playing Devil's Advocate, I would imagine all that extra revenue goes to the band's philanthropic endeavors. 

But it doesn't change the fact that some shows aren't selling out, and we should have the choice to take a loss (instead of only being able to sell a ticket for what we paid).

SHZA

Go Animal said:

Lerxst1992 said:

The options seem to be either:

Premium tickets, or

tiered pricing with VERY expensive GA/ close lowers, or

much higher face value for majority of locations.


the irony against the forum’s dislike against the premium tickets is that is what makes the legacy seating policy possible, otherwise that revenue would need to be made up by getting market value for the best locations instead of the historical policy of selling them at way below market value. That decision bears cost.

It does, but it's a cost that's weighed by an operation that's very entrenched. The band (Ed, I think) referenced this in the Zane interview that they "have to keep the machine running" with these small tours.

This is a situation a lot of seasoned bands find themselves in where they have X amount of crew that they want to keep fed. When you work for PJ, you tend to be there for life (unless you find a higher paying gig, or straight up retire), and the guys are very mindful of that.

I would counter that there's still room to rethink the ticket pricing situation without making labor/operating cuts. Legacy seating SHOULD be tied into the current iteration of a 10C membership, and no 10C member should pay $175 or higher for a seat in the 200's & 300's of any given venue.

My original point, was not every arena is selling out. And selling each ticket for the same price is a direct result of that.

Baseballs teams are no stranger to this, which is why they have family 4-packs & themed nights. If the LA shows in '22 & '24 had tiered pricing, or a 4-pack deal? They would sell the place out each time.

If some lapsed fan has their interest piqued, and they log on to TM & see $175/ticket in the 200's, they're gonna stay home. If they see 4 seats in a row for $200-250? They're gonna make plans & bring the whole fam, or 4 friends, and they're going to buy merch, pretzels & have an AMAZING time.

But you can't sell things in the arena to an unsold seat.

I study each show on TM & the resale sites up through the 11th hour, and the only places that sold out, were MSG & Philly (and even Philly had a handful of blue dots by show time). I wasn't able to look at Baltimore in the PM, but I assume it sold out.

I think it's time to raise the price on GA, Floor, and band side lowers, and work backwards, lowering the price as an incentive to come to the show. That, and give everyone the option to resell at face, or lower. That way, the band & TM still keep the original purchase price, but no one has to eat a ticket.

Baltimore had a few standard blue dots left in the lower bowl. I grabbed a 3-pack about 5 pm in the side stage section row J for family attending their first PJ show.

Go Animal

Great score, @SHZA🙌 I hope they had an amazing time🤘