Will Pearl Jam change fan to fan next tour?

BigRedd

Curious if they will admit fan to fan this tour has been nothing but a failure getting tickets back into the hands of fans at face value or even if they care at all. It is not just PJ having issues. Other bands as well who are using this platform are having the same problems. The fans are the ones getting screwed as scalpers are now able to be the only ones to get the sales and then they control the prices from there. 

Sure there have been some wins noted but the vast majority of tickets are scooped up before anyone even sees the tickets available. 


On top of that fans on this board have put in over a hundred hours on fan to fan and most come up with nothing to show for it. That is not a healthy system at all for anyone.  How much time have you spent do you think? 

I remember putting in days and days for Indy last year and never got a ticket. Someone here hooked me up with a lawn last minute but we know how that turned out. 

hairgrowth2001

It would be great if the original 10C tickets would be limited to 10C only through fan 2 fan. Each member could receive their own passcode to search for these tickets.

BigRedd

hairgrowth2001 said:

It would be great if the original 10C tickets would be limited to 10C only through fan 2 fan. Each member could receive their own passcode to search for these tickets.

Sure but what stops a scalper from accessing? 

hairgrowth2001

Each member would have their own unique code. Live nation sent me my own unique code for early access when they did $25 concert week.

BigRedd

hairgrowth2001 said:

Each member would have their own unique code. Live nation sent me my own unique code for early access when they did $25 concert week.

But scalpers would then just get 10C accounts which many already likely have. Maybe limiting the tickets more than they have with fan to fan would work. Being unlimited amounts per account is a broken system. 

Zod

hairgrowth2001 said:

Each member would have their own unique code. Live nation sent me my own unique code for early access when they did $25 concert week.

yah, but a scalper could buy a code for $35.   It's not really going to keep them out.  

Back to this thread though.  I'm not sure.  When PJ was the only band using it, it flew under the radar.  Then more bands started using it.  U2, Foo Fighters, The Cure etc.... obviously with being cut out, scalpers have figured out ways to get around it.

I'm not sure if there's a point to doing it anymore.   For 10c tickets maybe go back to the 2018 system of no transfers on 10c tickets (or only being able to transfer a single ticket).  

I do like certain aspects of fan2fan.  Normally to upgrade tickets, you need to charge about 20% above your face value to get your money back.  TM a little more than somewhere like stubhub.  With Fan2Fan there are no fees, so you don't have to inflate the price to break even.  I've already upgrade my Foo Fighters Seattle tickets once

tino_11

Can they not just limit the amount you can charge on F2F to the amount paid including fees?

BigRedd

tino_11 said:

Can they not just limit the amount you can charge on F2F to the amount paid including fees?

Yes thats how it works.

The issues is scalpers use programs that are faster than any of us are and they buy the tickets before we even see them pop up on fan to fan. 

They then use another program that allows them to retrieve the barcode before the 48hr period and they can send the buyer a link with that barcode in it. 

There are numerous articles coming out on how they do it. 



I am Will Call or bust at the moment I think 

spankyMP

Scalpers already have scores of 10C accounts.

bootlegger10

The only change I would care about is being able to reduce the price on Fan 2 Fan to compete with TM when the release better seats for a lower amount.  

BigRedd

bootlegger10 said:

The only change I would care about is being able to reduce the price on Fan 2 Fan to compete with TM when the release better seats for a lower amount.  

You don't care that scalpers pick up all the good tickets and sell them for crazy prices? As a seller sure that would be a nice feature but that would never happen as you would be undercutting TM and their tickets that have not sold yet. 

bootlegger10

I was under assumption that we won’t beat scalpers.  Of course would love for them to go.

BigRedd

bootlegger10 said:

I was under assumption that we won’t beat scalpers.  Of course would love for them to go.

Scalpers always win I agree. They are making it easier for them to win though with this system that does not allow normal fans to transfer.

SHZA

BigRedd said:

bootlegger10 said:

I was under assumption that we won’t beat scalpers.  Of course would love for them to go.

Scalpers always win I agree. They are making it easier for them to win though with this system that does not allow normal fans to transfer.

Normal fans can transfer tickets for MSG and Chicago. That hasn't made it harder on scalpers. 

They do have one tool that would shut down secondary ticket sales for other markets but they chose not to use it. Supposedly after the Vancouver shows they were going to eliminate barcodes in the TM app and require tickets to be put in the phone wallet. That would have made secondary tickets which rely on barcodes useless. I guess they didn't want to deal with the chaos. So the scalpers keep winning. Maybe they will do it next year, with fair warning that secondary site tickets won't work. Scalpers will still figure out a way to get around it but it would be nice if they at least try to institute some countermeasures. 

MJ178168

I would like to see show priority come back.  I think that could help keep ten club seats with those who are in the ten club.  I think you saw a lot of individuals who got numerous shows and probably dumped their tickets on f2f.  Whereas, there were a lot of ten clubbers completely shut out and were scavenging on f2f.  I think if you brought back ranking the priority of the shows during the lottery selection there is a better chance of tickets getting in the hands of those who really want and can go to the shows.

bootlegger10

I wouldn’t hold your breath.  Once perks go away can’t see them coming back.

BigRedd

SHZA said:

BigRedd said:

bootlegger10 said:

I was under assumption that we won’t beat scalpers.  Of course would love for them to go.

Scalpers always win I agree. They are making it easier for them to win though with this system that does not allow normal fans to transfer.

Normal fans can transfer tickets for MSG and Chicago. That hasn't made it harder on scalpers. 

They do have one tool that would shut down secondary ticket sales for other markets but they chose not to use it. Supposedly after the Vancouver shows they were going to eliminate barcodes in the TM app and require tickets to be put in the phone wallet. That would have made secondary tickets which rely on barcodes useless. I guess they didn't want to deal with the chaos. So the scalpers keep winning. Maybe they will do it next year, with fair warning that secondary site tickets won't work. Scalpers will still figure out a way to get around it but it would be nice if they at least try to institute some countermeasures. 

There are way less fan to fan on MSG than other shows for them to scoop up. 

There seems to be a lot more Wrigley dropping than MSG but I think that is because of the venue size/tickets not transferable yet/fan to fan just opened up. 

rival9500

BRING BACK PRIORITY.

SHZA

BigRedd said:

SHZA said:

BigRedd said:

bootlegger10 said:

I was under assumption that we won’t beat scalpers.  Of course would love for them to go.

Scalpers always win I agree. They are making it easier for them to win though with this system that does not allow normal fans to transfer.

Normal fans can transfer tickets for MSG and Chicago. That hasn't made it harder on scalpers. 

They do have one tool that would shut down secondary ticket sales for other markets but they chose not to use it. Supposedly after the Vancouver shows they were going to eliminate barcodes in the TM app and require tickets to be put in the phone wallet. That would have made secondary tickets which rely on barcodes useless. I guess they didn't want to deal with the chaos. So the scalpers keep winning. Maybe they will do it next year, with fair warning that secondary site tickets won't work. Scalpers will still figure out a way to get around it but it would be nice if they at least try to institute some countermeasures. 

There are way less fan to fan on MSG than other shows for them to scoop up. 

There seems to be a lot more Wrigley dropping than MSG but I think that is because of the venue size/tickets not transferable yet/fan to fan just opened up. 

The number of tickets on F2F doesn't really shed any light on whether a transfer option is making it harder on scalpers. The number of tickets and average price on secondary sites are better measures. The ability to transfer for NYC and Chicago helps scalpers and encourages average fans to jack up the price as well. Making all shows transferable is not the answer.  

BigRedd

SHZA said:

BigRedd said:

SHZA said:

BigRedd said:

bootlegger10 said:

I was under assumption that we won’t beat scalpers.  Of course would love for them to go.

Scalpers always win I agree. They are making it easier for them to win though with this system that does not allow normal fans to transfer.

Normal fans can transfer tickets for MSG and Chicago. That hasn't made it harder on scalpers. 

They do have one tool that would shut down secondary ticket sales for other markets but they chose not to use it. Supposedly after the Vancouver shows they were going to eliminate barcodes in the TM app and require tickets to be put in the phone wallet. That would have made secondary tickets which rely on barcodes useless. I guess they didn't want to deal with the chaos. So the scalpers keep winning. Maybe they will do it next year, with fair warning that secondary site tickets won't work. Scalpers will still figure out a way to get around it but it would be nice if they at least try to institute some countermeasures. 

There are way less fan to fan on MSG than other shows for them to scoop up. 

There seems to be a lot more Wrigley dropping than MSG but I think that is because of the venue size/tickets not transferable yet/fan to fan just opened up. 

The number of tickets on F2F doesn't really shed any light on whether a transfer option is making it harder on scalpers. The number of tickets and average price on secondary sites are better measures. The ability to transfer for NYC and Chicago helps scalpers and encourages average fans to jack up the price as well. Making all shows transferable is not the answer.  

I am not saying it is. I am saying if one group of people can transfer tickets you might as well make it available to everyone. Right nows the system is broken. Thats why I started this thread seeing if they were going to make any changes. . 

I also disagree about the average fan jacking up prices. If MSG was fan to fan only and non transferable the prices would be even higher than they are now. Brokers know how to manipulate the market especially a sold out show. Average fans usually see the lowest price and match. 

igotid88

It's not like it's 10,000 f2f posted all at once and they're all gone in a second. It's usually 1 or 2. Or maybe 10 I guess depending on the city. Those will usually get scooped up quickly by fans.

HailHailVitalogy

SHZA said:

BigRedd said:

SHZA said:

BigRedd said:

bootlegger10 said:

I was under assumption that we won’t beat scalpers.  Of course would love for them to go.

Scalpers always win I agree. They are making it easier for them to win though with this system that does not allow normal fans to transfer.

Normal fans can transfer tickets for MSG and Chicago. That hasn't made it harder on scalpers. 

They do have one tool that would shut down secondary ticket sales for other markets but they chose not to use it. Supposedly after the Vancouver shows they were going to eliminate barcodes in the TM app and require tickets to be put in the phone wallet. That would have made secondary tickets which rely on barcodes useless. I guess they didn't want to deal with the chaos. So the scalpers keep winning. Maybe they will do it next year, with fair warning that secondary site tickets won't work. Scalpers will still figure out a way to get around it but it would be nice if they at least try to institute some countermeasures. 

There are way less fan to fan on MSG than other shows for them to scoop up. 

There seems to be a lot more Wrigley dropping than MSG but I think that is because of the venue size/tickets not transferable yet/fan to fan just opened up. 

The number of tickets on F2F doesn't really shed any light on whether a transfer option is making it harder on scalpers. The number of tickets and average price on secondary sites are better measures. The ability to transfer for NYC and Chicago helps scalpers and encourages average fans to jack up the price as well. Making all shows transferable is not the answer.  

But transferring only at face value. Let TM take payment from buyer at face value and distribute funds to the seller. TM could charge $3.95 for the transfer out of the sellers proceeds. Rather than a simple transfer and taking payment via Venmo or a broker site. 

Get_Right

bootlegger10 said:

I wouldn’t hold your breath.  Once perks go away can’t see them coming back.

Yup. The TM machine has taken over and that does not work in the consumers favor.  It may work in the bands favor though.

lastexitlondon

It will work in every favour but the fan. For sure

Lerxst1992

BigRedd said:

hairgrowth2001 said:

Each member would have their own unique code. Live nation sent me my own unique code for early access when they did $25 concert week.

But scalpers would then just get 10C accounts which many already likely have. Maybe limiting the tickets more than they have with fan to fan would work. Being unlimited amounts per account is a broken system. 

Limit F2F sales within 3 days of tickets posted to be only available to 10c members who have not have a Pearl Jam ticket bought or sold within one year of that particular show, but has a history of buying other tickets within the general region of that show and attending the show. That would put a serious dent in scalper activity, and maximize the number of club members getting to participate in the tour, which is another big fail of their ticketing strategy this year. For every counterpoint, the ticketing agency can easily add other requirements with coding.

There are so many simple things Pearl Jam and their ticket partners could do that would only take a few minutes of coding. 

Lerxst1992

MJ178168 said:

I would like to see show priority come back.  I think that could help keep ten club seats with those who are in the ten club.  I think you saw a lot of individuals who got numerous shows and probably dumped their tickets on f2f.  Whereas, there were a lot of ten clubbers completely shut out and were scavenging on f2f.  I think if you brought back ranking the priority of the shows during the lottery selection there is a better chance of tickets getting in the hands of those who really want and can go to the shows.

Or limit number of lottery “winnings” to one show per draw, so fans can not win a second show until the computer goes thru everyone’s lottery draw and gives everyone a chance to win one show before awarding a second show to those that had those incredibly lucky multiple east coast wins.

The band gave little effort for the fans that live in the high demand regions in this years lottery, and it shows.

Get_Right

Lerxst1992 said:

MJ178168 said:

I would like to see show priority come back.  I think that could help keep ten club seats with those who are in the ten club.  I think you saw a lot of individuals who got numerous shows and probably dumped their tickets on f2f.  Whereas, there were a lot of ten clubbers completely shut out and were scavenging on f2f.  I think if you brought back ranking the priority of the shows during the lottery selection there is a better chance of tickets getting in the hands of those who really want and can go to the shows.

Or limit number of lottery “winnings” to one show per draw, so fans can not win a second show until the computer goes thru everyone’s lottery draw and gives everyone a chance to win one show before awarding a second show to those that had those incredibly lucky multiple east coast wins.

The band gave little effort for the fans that live in the high demand regions in this years lottery, and it shows.

Everything you mention will cost TM money in coding and admin costs. They have no incentive to do it even though the band could require it.
I just do not see it happening. I think the band has turned all of this over to management with limited input or oversight from the band, but have no facts to support that conclusion.

Weston1283

I know I am in the minority here, but I truly believe that if they are charging $200 USD per ticket anyway, then it is in everyone's best interest for them to have all 10c tickets become fully transferable.

Fan to Fan is quickly being exposed as just another way for TM to manipulate the market and leads to fans having to eat their tickets to many shows due to the inability to list for less than face value.

Lifted

I think a lot of fans still just haven’t learned how to use the system to their advantage. Patience is key. Sure there are some tweaks that could be made to improve it, but realistically, it’s never going to be perfect. Scalpers will always find a way to scalp.

The only thing that would satisfy everyone’s feelings about accessing tickets would be a huge US tour that we haven’t seen since 2006. Then it would be simple for everyone to get tickets with little effort. Unfortunately that’s just not going to happen anymore, and I’m not sure the band could sell enough tickets to do it even if they wanted to. 

In reality, the only shows that are somewhat difficult to acquire anymore are some of the cities in the northeast. It’d be cool to see the band acknowledge the love in the near future by doing something like 4 nights in Philly, 4 nights in NYC for example. I think it’d be a lot easier for the average fan to get into one of those shows that way. As it is, you often have to make plans with the blind faith that you’ll be able to purchase tickets within the 48 hours or so leading up to the show, which you usually can. Understandably, that is an approach that not everyone would feel comfortable with however.

pjl44

Lerxst1992 said:

BigRedd said:

hairgrowth2001 said:

Each member would have their own unique code. Live nation sent me my own unique code for early access when they did $25 concert week.

But scalpers would then just get 10C accounts which many already likely have. Maybe limiting the tickets more than they have with fan to fan would work. Being unlimited amounts per account is a broken system. 

Limit F2F sales within 3 days of tickets posted to be only available to 10c members who have not have a Pearl Jam ticket bought or sold within one year of that particular show, but has a history of buying other tickets within the general region of that show and attending the show. That would put a serious dent in scalper activity, and maximize the number of club members getting to participate in the tour, which is another big fail of their ticketing strategy this year. For every counterpoint, the ticketing agency can easily add other requirements with coding.

There are so many simple things Pearl Jam and their ticket partners could do that would only take a few minutes of coding. 

You seem to favor high touch, complex, nearly impossible to implement solutions 

100 Pacer

rival9500 said:

BRING BACK PRIORITY.

Priority administered by TicketsToday isn’t the solution either because once a member is selected all of selections in the order are satisfied based on availability. Show priority carried no weight.