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Let's talk about compression and brickwalling.

brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
in Other Music
I commented on the Pearl Jam FaceBook site about compression, and thought the subject might be a good one to discuss here. 

Looking back on some discussions about compression, I need to revise a bit what I said there about it there (the whole thread has since been removed for some reason- not a clue why). My understanding is that a certain amount of compression is probably not noticeable to most ears. What makes compression harsh and, for many of us, barely tolerable, is using a high amount of compression known as "brickwalling". That's where the competition to grab your attention on listening sites, in stores, etc. A higher compressed or brickwalled recording at the same volume as a less compressed recording will stick in your brain more easily. That's the whole point. Brickwalled music- it sells more than less compressed recording that have a more "warm" sound. For my ears, give me warm music any day!

My understanding is that younger listeners have become accustomed to highly compressed music.  I suspect though, that given the opportunity to listen to less compressed- and particularly analog recordings- many of these listeners would come to appreciate the less compress and particularly the analog sound.

Thoughts?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













Comments

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    dudemandudeman Posts: 2,986
    The point of brickwall compression is to drive up the overall volume level of a track or album, relative to others that may be playing on the same radio station or streaming service, to get it to stand out amongst the competition. 

    It's too bad that it became standard practice for a lot of labels because it is the listener who suffers.

    Then again, much of the music buying public cares much more about content than fidelity so the "loudness wars" are only really an issue for a relatively small segment of the population. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,065
    There are a few albums that i know did this.  There was a Metallica album and a 3oh3 album where i had to tune down the EQ highs because at louder listens it would pierce my ears.
  • Options
    BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil Michigan Posts: 3,047
    Here you go.........


    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
  • Options
    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,664
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........


    Interesting. Dark Matter download is lowest (with Lost Dogs). I wonder what the other formats of Dark Matter rank. 
  • Options
    BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil Michigan Posts: 3,047
    Eventually, they'll add the vinyl version.
    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    dudeman said:
    The point of brickwall compression is to drive up the overall volume level of a track or album, relative to others that may be playing on the same radio station or streaming service, to get it to stand out amongst the competition. 

    It's too bad that it became standard practice for a lot of labels because it is the listener who suffers.

    Then again, much of the music buying public cares much more about content than fidelity so the "loudness wars" are only really an issue for a relatively small segment of the population. 

    Excellent summation, Dudeman.
    tempo_n_groove said:
    There are a few albums that i know did this.  There was a Metallica album and a 3oh3 album where i had to tune down the EQ highs because at louder listens it would pierce my ears.

    Most CDs give me ear fatigue very fast.  A lot of that is due to nerve damage in my hearing so for me, records, especially analogue sourced, are essential.
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Eventually, they'll add the vinyl version.

    Sadly, I have a few great albums on vinyl that are digitally sourced (two of the World Saxophone Quartet albums I have come to mind) that do sound rather harsh and were probably sourced from brickwalled CDs. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil Michigan Posts: 3,047
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    I'm having trouble as well.  The vinyl just arrived today, I sure hope it's better!!!

    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
  • Options
    dudemandudeman Posts: 2,986
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    I'd venture to say that the vast majority of music is recorded digitally these days. Most of the vinyl records produced in the last 30 years are probably digitized at some point along the line. 

    Anymore, the advantages to listening to music on records are the ritual involved and also whether or not you like the way your turntable, cartridge and phono preamp affect the overall sound. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    I'm having trouble as well.  The vinyl just arrived today, I sure hope it's better!!!


    I hope so too, Wil.  If you get a chance, let me know what you think of the vinyl version.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    dudeman said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    I'd venture to say that the vast majority of music is recorded digitally these days. Most of the vinyl records produced in the last 30 years are probably digitized at some point along the line. 

    Anymore, the advantages to listening to music on records are the ritual involved and also whether or not you like the way your turntable, cartridge and phono preamp affect the overall sound. 

    Very true, Dudeman. 
    I read this book co-written by Neil Young and Phil Baker recently called To Feel the Music. Neil has been very outspoken against digital in the past, but in this book he actually talks about the importance of utilizing hi rez digital to preserve old recordings.  He and Baker talk about how they slowly bake old tapes to make them less brittle and then record them on to hi rez digital which preserve 90% of analog sound, which is very close to analog sound and is the best way to preserve that old music before it is lost forever.  And, of course, much was lost in that horrific Universal Studios fire in 2008.  That left a lot of music lost or only preserved on low-grade digital or on existing LPs or cassette tapes only. 

    I'd still, of course, like to hear more new analog vinyl, but you're right, that's rare these days.  Beside that holy ritual of playing vinyl, the other advantage of digitally sourced vinyl is it still frequently takes longer to fatigue my battered hearing.  Could be simply psychological, I suppose, but I really do think playing those vinyl LPs feels easier on my ears.  I suppose it could also be my CD player (a Marantz CD5005).

    The other interesting thing about that Young/Baker book was that they talk about how non-hi rez CDs (which is most of them) only contain 25% of analog sound and most streaming and MP3 sources only utilize 5%.  That sounded crazy to me, but I looked it up and I guess it's true.  Crazy!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    darthvedderdarthvedder Posts: 2,483
    Digital gets such a bad name for no reason. There are plenty of CDs from the 80s and early 90s that have fantastic sound. I didn't even know this until I heard Doolittle by the Pixies. The difference is night and day. Neil can spew all he wants about hi-res recordings but if it's garbage in, then it's garbage out no matter what format you use. I have plenty of hi-res recordings that sound terrible. And the latest is Dark Matter by Pearl Jam.
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    darthvedder said:
    Digital gets such a bad name for no reason. There are plenty of CDs from the 80s and early 90s that have fantastic sound. I didn't even know this until I heard Doolittle by the Pixies. The difference is night and day. Neil can spew all he wants about hi-res recordings but if it's garbage in, then it's garbage out no matter what format you use. I have plenty of hi-res recordings that sound terrible. And the latest is Dark Matter by Pearl Jam.

    OK, differing opinion, not a problem.  But why the "Neil can spew all he wants" comment?  Have you read the book I mentioned?  There was no spewing there.  The book is a well thought out exploration of the benefits and detriments (brickwalling and MP3 quality digital in particular) of digital recordings, not a rant or tirade.

    I hope you at least understand this is not meant to be a "digital bashing" thread.  If you look at some of the things said here earlier Darth, you'll notice that Neil (and I) actually gave good credence to the use of digital for the preservation of music.  That's a major theme in To Feel the Music. 

    And, yeah, I agree that hi rez recordings can sound like crap.  But an MP3 of a crap recording is going to sound worse than a hi rez digital version of the same recording.  That's just a fact.  And of course you know there is more to the make up of a recording than simply the use of digital (of any sort) or analog- things like mixing, how the instruments were mic'd, type of microphones used, placement, the recording space itself, and on and on.





    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    NEIL DOESNT KNOW DIGITAL RECORDING FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND

    or whatecer trent reznor said :)
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    NEIL DOESNT KNOW DIGITAL RECORDING FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND

    or whatecer trent reznor said :)

    I'd never heard that so I Googled, "Trent Reznor: Neil Doesn't know digital recording from a hole in the ground" and it only came up with this link: https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/189370/official-neil-young-thread/p47 , containing a quote from you on another thread in which you gave no citations:

    Trent Reznor: " I heard Neil Young say that doesn't sound good." Like Neil Young would know his ass from a hole in the ground about digital recording. Nothing against Neil Young, but people get these archaic notions.

    Nice try though, lol.

    P.S. This is not a Neil Young thread.



    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    Please note, the main focus of the thread is compression and brickwalling, not digital and Neil Young, and definitely not Rant Reznor.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    darthvedderdarthvedder Posts: 2,483
    brianlux said:
    darthvedder said:
    Digital gets such a bad name for no reason. There are plenty of CDs from the 80s and early 90s that have fantastic sound. I didn't even know this until I heard Doolittle by the Pixies. The difference is night and day. Neil can spew all he wants about hi-res recordings but if it's garbage in, then it's garbage out no matter what format you use. I have plenty of hi-res recordings that sound terrible. And the latest is Dark Matter by Pearl Jam.

    OK, differing opinion, not a problem.  But why the "Neil can spew all he wants" comment?  Have you read the book I mentioned?  There was no spewing there.  The book is a well thought out exploration of the benefits and detriments (brickwalling and MP3 quality digital in particular) of digital recordings, not a rant or tirade.

    I hope you at least understand this is not meant to be a "digital bashing" thread.  If you look at some of the things said here earlier Darth, you'll notice that Neil (and I) actually gave good credence to the use of digital for the preservation of music.  That's a major theme in To Feel the Music. 

    And, yeah, I agree that hi rez recordings can sound like crap.  But an MP3 of a crap recording is going to sound worse than a hi rez digital version of the same recording.  That's just a fact.  And of course you know there is more to the make up of a recording than simply the use of digital (of any sort) or analog- things like mixing, how the instruments were mic'd, type of microphones used, placement, the recording space itself, and on and on.





    The "Neil can spew..." comment was in relation to your final paragraph about Young/Baker claiming that non-hi-res CDs only contain 25% of the analog recording. How do you even quantify such a thing? That is complete nonsense. I'd like to know where you looked it up to find out if it was true or not.

  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    darthvedder said:
    brianlux said:
    darthvedder said:
    Digital gets such a bad name for no reason. There are plenty of CDs from the 80s and early 90s that have fantastic sound. I didn't even know this until I heard Doolittle by the Pixies. The difference is night and day. Neil can spew all he wants about hi-res recordings but if it's garbage in, then it's garbage out no matter what format you use. I have plenty of hi-res recordings that sound terrible. And the latest is Dark Matter by Pearl Jam.

    OK, differing opinion, not a problem.  But why the "Neil can spew all he wants" comment?  Have you read the book I mentioned?  There was no spewing there.  The book is a well thought out exploration of the benefits and detriments (brickwalling and MP3 quality digital in particular) of digital recordings, not a rant or tirade.

    I hope you at least understand this is not meant to be a "digital bashing" thread.  If you look at some of the things said here earlier Darth, you'll notice that Neil (and I) actually gave good credence to the use of digital for the preservation of music.  That's a major theme in To Feel the Music. 

    And, yeah, I agree that hi rez recordings can sound like crap.  But an MP3 of a crap recording is going to sound worse than a hi rez digital version of the same recording.  That's just a fact.  And of course you know there is more to the make up of a recording than simply the use of digital (of any sort) or analog- things like mixing, how the instruments were mic'd, type of microphones used, placement, the recording space itself, and on and on.





    The "Neil can spew..." comment was in relation to your final paragraph about Young/Baker claiming that non-hi-res CDs only contain 25% of the analog recording. How do you even quantify such a thing? That is complete nonsense. I'd like to know where you looked it up to find out if it was true or not.


    There is a ton of information on all this out there.  It would take a good while for me to gather all the citations- I've read quite a few of them- and maybe if I get a chance, I will (and maybe some others here will as well). I have to say though, with you saying things like, "that's complete nonsense", I'm not sure what your motivation is here.  Seems like you're looking to argue more than discuss when you say things like that..  But look, if you're really interested in all this, maybe start with the search engine here and check out some of the threads on the subject here (Steve Hoffman is a first-rate audio mastering engineer and a lot of people who post here are very tech savvy about this stuff):

    Also, maybe look up "loudness wars" and read up a bit on compression.  You might find it interesting.





    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited April 24
    brianlux said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    NEIL DOESNT KNOW DIGITAL RECORDING FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND

    or whatecer trent reznor said :)

    I'd never heard that so I Googled, "Trent Reznor: Neil Doesn't know digital recording from a hole in the ground" and it only came up with this link: https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/189370/official-neil-young-thread/p47 , containing a quote from you on another thread in which you gave no citations:

    Trent Reznor: " I heard Neil Young say that doesn't sound good." Like Neil Young would know his ass from a hole in the ground about digital recording. Nothing against Neil Young, but people get these archaic notions.

    Nice try though, lol.

    P.S. This is not a Neil Young thread.



    You are writing, like I would ever know of and use words like "archaic notions" when faking a Trent Reznor quote. I'm Swedish. I don't know these words. Or am on here to fake Trent Reznor quotes. Lol.

    The quote is from the April 1994 issue of Guitar World. There, you have your quotation. Go to your local library and search for it on microfilm like they do in every other horror movie. :) 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,065
    People use a DAC on records to make them sound better right?

    Some CD's do sound magnificent.  Yield being one of them.

    I've also played 90's CD's of 70's music to people and they can hear something missing.
  • Options
    BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil Michigan Posts: 3,047
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    I'm having trouble as well.  The vinyl just arrived today, I sure hope it's better!!!


    I hope so too, Wil.  If you get a chance, let me know what you think of the vinyl version.

    I listened to the black vinyl version last night.  Cymbal crashes sound smashed, but the hi-hats sound ok. I really didn't hear any improvement. Sorry, Brian.  My equipment is all vintage Pioneer gear from the late 1970's.  HPM-60 speakers, SX-950 receiver and PL-570 turntable with a fresh cartridge.
    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    I'm having trouble as well.  The vinyl just arrived today, I sure hope it's better!!!


    I hope so too, Wil.  If you get a chance, let me know what you think of the vinyl version.

    I listened to the black vinyl version last night.  Cymbal crashes sound smashed, but the hi-hats sound ok. I really didn't hear any improvement. Sorry, Brian.  My equipment is all vintage Pioneer gear from the late 1970's.  HPM-60 speakers, SX-950 receiver and PL-570 turntable with a fresh cartridge.

    Sorry to hear it.  I'm probably going to pass on the new LP anyway.  I'm glad a lot of people are happy with it, glad the band is still at it after all this time, but Dark Matter just doesn't do it for me enough at this point.

    Your gear must sound great!  That vintage Pioneer stuff is amazing and way better than a lot of stuff produced today.  Nice!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil Michigan Posts: 3,047
    Thanks Brian!
    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Thanks Brian!

    :plus_one:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil Michigan Posts: 3,047
    Hey Brian,  I don't know if you have a streaming service.  I've found that the Dolby Atmos Mix on Amazon Music sounds decent through headphones.  At least I'm able to pick out the different instruments.  Drums still sound squished, but not as bad. Cheers!
    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Hey Brian,  I don't know if you have a streaming service.  I've found that the Dolby Atmos Mix on Amazon Music sounds decent through headphones.  At least I'm able to pick out the different instruments.  Drums still sound squished, but not as bad. Cheers!

    Thanks for the tip, Wil.  Unfortunately, we live in this little hinterlands- actually not far at all from Placerville, a good sized town, but we're located among some hills in such a way that we only have two choices for internet service- either expensive Star Link, or using my cell phone as a hot spot, and data here, though less than Star Link is also fairly expensive, thus limited.  Some one of these days I'm gonna have to have to a more civilized neighborhood!  :lol:     
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil Michigan Posts: 3,047
    Gotcha!  My sister's family just bought a place in Calistoga. A couple hours away.
    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Gotcha!  My sister's family just bought a place in Calistoga. A couple hours away.

    Sweet!  What a great little town. 
    I lived in Kenwood for a couple of years.  Good memories of that place!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,664
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    I'm having trouble as well.  The vinyl just arrived today, I sure hope it's better!!!


    I hope so too, Wil.  If you get a chance, let me know what you think of the vinyl version.

    I listened to the black vinyl version last night.  Cymbal crashes sound smashed, but the hi-hats sound ok. I really didn't hear any improvement. Sorry, Brian.  My equipment is all vintage Pioneer gear from the late 1970's.  HPM-60 speakers, SX-950 receiver and PL-570 turntable with a fresh cartridge.
    I was listening to badmotorfinger the other day and  I thought Matt’s drum sound from that album is almost identical to what it is on Dark Matter. 
  • Options
    BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil Michigan Posts: 3,047
    Go Beavers said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    brianlux said:
    BIGDaddyWil said:
    Here you go.........



    Wow!  Well, that explains why Dark Matter is unlistenable for me.
    I'm having trouble as well.  The vinyl just arrived today, I sure hope it's better!!!


    I hope so too, Wil.  If you get a chance, let me know what you think of the vinyl version.

    I listened to the black vinyl version last night.  Cymbal crashes sound smashed, but the hi-hats sound ok. I really didn't hear any improvement. Sorry, Brian.  My equipment is all vintage Pioneer gear from the late 1970's.  HPM-60 speakers, SX-950 receiver and PL-570 turntable with a fresh cartridge.
    I was listening to badmotorfinger the other day and  I thought Matt’s drum sound from that album is almost identical to what it is on Dark Matter. 

    I, myself don't hear that on Badmotorfinger.  Don't get me wrong, it's still a little compressed.  Which pressing were you listening to?

    This is my go to pressing for Badmotorfinger:


    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
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