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NYC plan for Congestion Pricing- Charging for entering the city.

tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
edited May 2023 in A Moving Train
New York City.  The City I love to hate keeps getting worse...

https://abc7ny.com/congestion-pricing-new-york-city-driving-business-district/13249550/

The City wants to start charging people up to $23 to enter lower Manhattan.

Why this is a dumb idea are too many reasons to list but I will give a few.

The GW bridge is already a disaster.  Because it is above 60th, the proposed area to pay to enter, will be so inundated with extra traffic now to avoid the area.  The Bronx and upper Manhattan will be gridlock all day long.

People don't like taking the trains anymore.  Too many inconsiderate people and too many transients on the subway.  Safety on subways is another concern.

We pay a toll to enter the city already.  We now will have to pay a surcharge on top of that.

NYC is notorious for wasting the funds that they have.  I do public works and see how top heavy management is and the lack of decision making people in charge have.  The bog of red tape you need to sift through in order to get approvals is another fine point the city has going for it.

If you keep building bigger buildings and have the transit system not upgraded I am not sure what the city expects people to do.  I guess more will want to work remotely?

Thoughts?
«13

Comments

  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 8,435
    Can’t wait to get out of this city man. 2 years more. Max  
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,140
    tempo_n_groove said:
    New York City.  The City I love to hate keeps getting worse...

    https://abc7ny.com/congestion-pricing-new-york-city-driving-business-district/13249550/

    The City wants to start charging people up to $23 to enter lower Manhattan.

    Why this is a dumb idea are too many reasons to list but I will give a few.

    The GW bridge is already a disaster.  Because it is above 60th, the proposed area to pay to enter, will be so inundated with extra traffic now to avoid the area.  The Bronx and upper Manhattan will be gridlock all day long.

    People don't like taking the trains anymore.  Too many inconsiderate people and too many transients on the subway.  Safety on subways is another concern.

    We pay a toll to enter the city already.  We now will have to pay a surcharge on top of that.

    NYC is notorious for wasting the funds that they have.  I do public works and see how top heavy management is and the lack of decision making people in charge have.  The bog of red tape you need to sift through in order to get approvals is another fine point the city has going for it.

    If you keep building bigger buildings and have the transit system not upgraded I am not sure what the city expects people to do.  I guess more will want to work remotely?

    Thoughts?
    Urban environments could have a real problem with the shift to work-from-home not reversing if it remains. If pricey office space is wasted due to people working from home for the future, the model will have to move to something timeshare-y, or rent will have to come down to justify the new reality. There goes a significant chunk of NYC funding if that happens.
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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,500
    Yeah that’s absurd to have to pay 23$ to enter the city! Lucky for me im not a city person per say and I’m looking to move from NY in two years time anyway. 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,935
    Sounds like an empire in decline.   
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 8,435
    bootlegger10 said:
    Sounds like an empire in decline.   
    Yea but Texas 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    bootlegger10 said:
    Sounds like an empire in decline.   
    NY needs a cash grab and influx of money.

    NY is very bad at managing their money.  I believe all politicians steal it, lol.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,260
    Fuck them, they already charge me on the way in for the tunnel.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • OnWis97OnWis97 Posts: 5,131
    I had to pay $6 to enter Jekyl Island on the small Georgia coastline. I think it was a way to encourage carpooling (and to make six bucks per).

    I'm not saying this is necessarily a good idea; I know far too little to say that.

    You've expressed concerns related to the unintended consequences of people driving to other places to avoid the toll. It's also regressive; regular people with five-figure jobs probably drive in. Generally speaking, I like encouragement of carpooling and transit and to be perfectly frank, punishment for driving. So to put it more specifically, they're going to charge cars, as opposed to people.

    $23 seems a bit steep. I'd prefer to see something along the lines of a standard toll charge that doesn't apply for vehicles with more than one person.

    As an aside, I cannot imagine driving into Manhattan for a daily commute.
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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,439
    bootlegger10 said:
    Sounds like an empire in decline.   
    This is your bellwether moment signaling an empire in decline? 

    Tolls to alleviate congestion? 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,010
    nicknyr15 said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    Sounds like an empire in decline.   
    Yea but Texas 
    Tejas is leading the way and dragging the rest of the country down with it.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,010
    tempo_n_groove said:
    New York City.  The City I love to hate keeps getting worse...

    https://abc7ny.com/congestion-pricing-new-york-city-driving-business-district/13249550/

    The City wants to start charging people up to $23 to enter lower Manhattan.

    Why this is a dumb idea are too many reasons to list but I will give a few.

    The GW bridge is already a disaster.  Because it is above 60th, the proposed area to pay to enter, will be so inundated with extra traffic now to avoid the area.  The Bronx and upper Manhattan will be gridlock all day long.

    People don't like taking the trains anymore.  Too many inconsiderate people and too many transients on the subway.  Safety on subways is another concern.

    We pay a toll to enter the city already.  We now will have to pay a surcharge on top of that.

    NYC is notorious for wasting the funds that they have.  I do public works and see how top heavy management is and the lack of decision making people in charge have.  The bog of red tape you need to sift through in order to get approvals is another fine point the city has going for it.

    If you keep building bigger buildings and have the transit system not upgraded I am not sure what the city expects people to do.  I guess more will want to work remotely?

    Thoughts?
    What do you pay to park in Manhattan?
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    Sounds like a terrible idea! 
    I've been to NYC three times (though not recently) and simply loved it.  The energy, the sites, the grandness of it all.  So it is sad to hear that great city is facing new and challenging issues in these modern times. 
    I feel the same way about my beloved home city of San Francisco.  Sacramento as well.  Having had to live in my vehicle for a few years, I've been semi homeless myself I appreciate the difficulties and am sympathetic about the issue, but the simple fact is that it is an issue that has not been dealt very well at all and thus has turned some of our greatest cities into dangerous and ugly places.  Add to that, rampant drug issues, especially regarding fentanyl, as well as overbuilding and peoples selfish unwillingness to take mass transit, these cities are becoming inhospitable and unattractive.  It will get worse until it gets better.  The question is, how do we turn this around?
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    New York City.  The City I love to hate keeps getting worse...

    https://abc7ny.com/congestion-pricing-new-york-city-driving-business-district/13249550/

    The City wants to start charging people up to $23 to enter lower Manhattan.

    Why this is a dumb idea are too many reasons to list but I will give a few.

    The GW bridge is already a disaster.  Because it is above 60th, the proposed area to pay to enter, will be so inundated with extra traffic now to avoid the area.  The Bronx and upper Manhattan will be gridlock all day long.

    People don't like taking the trains anymore.  Too many inconsiderate people and too many transients on the subway.  Safety on subways is another concern.

    We pay a toll to enter the city already.  We now will have to pay a surcharge on top of that.

    NYC is notorious for wasting the funds that they have.  I do public works and see how top heavy management is and the lack of decision making people in charge have.  The bog of red tape you need to sift through in order to get approvals is another fine point the city has going for it.

    If you keep building bigger buildings and have the transit system not upgraded I am not sure what the city expects people to do.  I guess more will want to work remotely?

    Thoughts?
    What do you pay to park in Manhattan?
    I usually don't pay anything.  I am a drive in and drive out type or I put a vest in the window and park near the jobsite or on it.

    Now if I do pay for parking? Which is very rare.  Usually $66 if I'm in a garage.  On the street it's free or you pay a few dollars for the meters.

    So, this does impact what I specifically do.  No more popping into jobs or dropping tools and supplies off to my guys.  It's a train in and out then and the LIRR is like every hour during off peak so I lose time in my day if I miss a train by a minute.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    brianlux said:
    Sounds like a terrible idea! 
    I've been to NYC three times (though not recently) and simply loved it.  The energy, the sites, the grandness of it all.  So it is sad to hear that great city is facing new and challenging issues in these modern times. 
    I feel the same way about my beloved home city of San Francisco.  Sacramento as well.  Having had to live in my vehicle for a few years, I've been semi homeless myself I appreciate the difficulties and am sympathetic about the issue, but the simple fact is that it is an issue that has not been dealt very well at all and thus has turned some of our greatest cities into dangerous and ugly places.  Add to that, rampant drug issues, especially regarding fentanyl, as well as overbuilding and peoples selfish unwillingness to take mass transit, these cities are becoming inhospitable and unattractive.  It will get worse until it gets better.  The question is, how do we turn this around?
    NYhas good public transportation.  Not great.

    LIRR just opened up a 3rd line that goes to Grand Central.  That's a big deal and what do we have to show for it?  

    Increased prices, fewer trains per ride and less frequent trips.

    This and the pandemic soured many a person from riding the trains.  The MTA wants their money so they will get it one way or the other and try and force ridership up by punishing the masses.
  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 4,405
    My son is moving to NYC in July. First big job out of college. This sound like a great place to visit…
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,010
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    New York City.  The City I love to hate keeps getting worse...

    https://abc7ny.com/congestion-pricing-new-york-city-driving-business-district/13249550/

    The City wants to start charging people up to $23 to enter lower Manhattan.

    Why this is a dumb idea are too many reasons to list but I will give a few.

    The GW bridge is already a disaster.  Because it is above 60th, the proposed area to pay to enter, will be so inundated with extra traffic now to avoid the area.  The Bronx and upper Manhattan will be gridlock all day long.

    People don't like taking the trains anymore.  Too many inconsiderate people and too many transients on the subway.  Safety on subways is another concern.

    We pay a toll to enter the city already.  We now will have to pay a surcharge on top of that.

    NYC is notorious for wasting the funds that they have.  I do public works and see how top heavy management is and the lack of decision making people in charge have.  The bog of red tape you need to sift through in order to get approvals is another fine point the city has going for it.

    If you keep building bigger buildings and have the transit system not upgraded I am not sure what the city expects people to do.  I guess more will want to work remotely?

    Thoughts?
    What do you pay to park in Manhattan?
    I usually don't pay anything.  I am a drive in and drive out type or I put a vest in the window and park near the jobsite or on it.

    Now if I do pay for parking? Which is very rare.  Usually $66 if I'm in a garage.  On the street it's free or you pay a few dollars for the meters.

    So, this does impact what I specifically do.  No more popping into jobs or dropping tools and supplies off to my guys.  It's a train in and out then and the LIRR is like every hour during off peak so I lose time in my day if I miss a train by a minute.
    How do you navigate the alternate street side parking for street sweeping and the madness of the parking signs of loading zones, restricted hours, limits, free on Sundays, after X, etc.? You need a calendar to figure it out. So, how many parking tickets do you get and what do they run?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    New York City.  The City I love to hate keeps getting worse...

    https://abc7ny.com/congestion-pricing-new-york-city-driving-business-district/13249550/

    The City wants to start charging people up to $23 to enter lower Manhattan.

    Why this is a dumb idea are too many reasons to list but I will give a few.

    The GW bridge is already a disaster.  Because it is above 60th, the proposed area to pay to enter, will be so inundated with extra traffic now to avoid the area.  The Bronx and upper Manhattan will be gridlock all day long.

    People don't like taking the trains anymore.  Too many inconsiderate people and too many transients on the subway.  Safety on subways is another concern.

    We pay a toll to enter the city already.  We now will have to pay a surcharge on top of that.

    NYC is notorious for wasting the funds that they have.  I do public works and see how top heavy management is and the lack of decision making people in charge have.  The bog of red tape you need to sift through in order to get approvals is another fine point the city has going for it.

    If you keep building bigger buildings and have the transit system not upgraded I am not sure what the city expects people to do.  I guess more will want to work remotely?

    Thoughts?
    What do you pay to park in Manhattan?
    I usually don't pay anything.  I am a drive in and drive out type or I put a vest in the window and park near the jobsite or on it.

    Now if I do pay for parking? Which is very rare.  Usually $66 if I'm in a garage.  On the street it's free or you pay a few dollars for the meters.

    So, this does impact what I specifically do.  No more popping into jobs or dropping tools and supplies off to my guys.  It's a train in and out then and the LIRR is like every hour during off peak so I lose time in my day if I miss a train by a minute.
    How do you navigate the alternate street side parking for street sweeping and the madness of the parking signs of loading zones, restricted hours, limits, free on Sundays, after X, etc.? You need a calendar to figure it out. So, how many parking tickets do you get and what do they run?
    Well I'm not an idiot so I understand how to read signs and know where to park.  It's not difficult.  Working in the city for the past 13 years has netted me 2 parking tickets and both spots we were told by other meter-maids to park there and we would be fine...

    I am just one person that does this on occasion.  There are people that do this as a commute every day and they don't have problems navigating it either.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,350
    elvistheking44 said:
    My son is moving to NYC in July. First big job out of college. This sound like a great place to visit…
    Where in the city?
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,260
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    New York City.  The City I love to hate keeps getting worse...

    https://abc7ny.com/congestion-pricing-new-york-city-driving-business-district/13249550/

    The City wants to start charging people up to $23 to enter lower Manhattan.

    Why this is a dumb idea are too many reasons to list but I will give a few.

    The GW bridge is already a disaster.  Because it is above 60th, the proposed area to pay to enter, will be so inundated with extra traffic now to avoid the area.  The Bronx and upper Manhattan will be gridlock all day long.

    People don't like taking the trains anymore.  Too many inconsiderate people and too many transients on the subway.  Safety on subways is another concern.

    We pay a toll to enter the city already.  We now will have to pay a surcharge on top of that.

    NYC is notorious for wasting the funds that they have.  I do public works and see how top heavy management is and the lack of decision making people in charge have.  The bog of red tape you need to sift through in order to get approvals is another fine point the city has going for it.

    If you keep building bigger buildings and have the transit system not upgraded I am not sure what the city expects people to do.  I guess more will want to work remotely?

    Thoughts?
    What do you pay to park in Manhattan?
    $60+, generally.  
    Shit, in Philly I am $40+, now.
    Out of control.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,010
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    New York City.  The City I love to hate keeps getting worse...

    https://abc7ny.com/congestion-pricing-new-york-city-driving-business-district/13249550/

    The City wants to start charging people up to $23 to enter lower Manhattan.

    Why this is a dumb idea are too many reasons to list but I will give a few.

    The GW bridge is already a disaster.  Because it is above 60th, the proposed area to pay to enter, will be so inundated with extra traffic now to avoid the area.  The Bronx and upper Manhattan will be gridlock all day long.

    People don't like taking the trains anymore.  Too many inconsiderate people and too many transients on the subway.  Safety on subways is another concern.

    We pay a toll to enter the city already.  We now will have to pay a surcharge on top of that.

    NYC is notorious for wasting the funds that they have.  I do public works and see how top heavy management is and the lack of decision making people in charge have.  The bog of red tape you need to sift through in order to get approvals is another fine point the city has going for it.

    If you keep building bigger buildings and have the transit system not upgraded I am not sure what the city expects people to do.  I guess more will want to work remotely?

    Thoughts?
    What do you pay to park in Manhattan?
    I usually don't pay anything.  I am a drive in and drive out type or I put a vest in the window and park near the jobsite or on it.

    Now if I do pay for parking? Which is very rare.  Usually $66 if I'm in a garage.  On the street it's free or you pay a few dollars for the meters.

    So, this does impact what I specifically do.  No more popping into jobs or dropping tools and supplies off to my guys.  It's a train in and out then and the LIRR is like every hour during off peak so I lose time in my day if I miss a train by a minute.
    How do you navigate the alternate street side parking for street sweeping and the madness of the parking signs of loading zones, restricted hours, limits, free on Sundays, after X, etc.? You need a calendar to figure it out. So, how many parking tickets do you get and what do they run?
    Well I'm not an idiot so I understand how to read signs and know where to park.  It's not difficult.  Working in the city for the past 13 years has netted me 2 parking tickets and both spots we were told by other meter-maids to park there and we would be fine...

    I am just one person that does this on occasion.  There are people that do this as a commute every day and they don't have problems navigating it either.
    Did I say you were either of those things, for fucks sake? I’ve stood waiting to cross a street or waiting for someone and have read a multitude of parking signs for where I was in NYC and by the time you decipher the conflicts between them, you realize you get to park there for 15 minutes on a Wednesday between 10:30 and 11:00 but only if Mars is rising and the moon is waning. I admit, I’m a retarded idiot that doesn’t know how to read.
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  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,078
    elvistheking44 said:
    My son is moving to NYC in July. First big job out of college. This sound like a great place to visit…
    Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but it is. 
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,078
    I think as Americans we’ve gotten used to driving being subsidized, so it’s shielded from a lot of the actual costs of a car centric culture. The shift away from that will be bumpy, but also required. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,359
    I thought they'd be charging everyone going into the city, but its just the cars right?
    How would they do it? Like a toll booth, or an express tag linked to a credit card or something? Anything other than an automated system when you drive through sounds like it'd just cause more traffic. 

    They might be headed in California's direction. Tax everyone so much they want to leave, then try to tax them more for leaving. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,012
    mace1229 said:
    I thought they'd be charging everyone going into the city, but its just the cars right?
    How would they do it? Like a toll booth, or an express tag linked to a credit card or something? Anything other than an automated system when you drive through sounds like it'd just cause more traffic. 

    They might be headed in California's direction. Tax everyone so much they want to leave, then try to tax them more for leaving. 
    From what I hear around here in California, the people who complain the most about taxes here- hard core right wing Republicans- are more prone to be those who are moving to places like Idaho and Montana.  I'm sorry for those states, but I'm not sorry to see those people leave.  Adios!

    Oh, and I say this someone who, along with my wife, has an income that is just a little more than half the average in California.  I don't know what these people are bitching about... except that the right wing likes to bitch a lot about such things.
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  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,880
    The proposed rate is $9-$23. Which probably means if this actually goes through, it will fall in the middle, say about $15.
    That's not going to deter many people on a day/night out in NYC. I don't see this as solving a congestion issue.
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 8,435
    eddiec said:
    The proposed rate is $9-$23. Which probably means if this actually goes through, it will fall in the middle, say about $15.
    That's not going to deter many people on a day/night out in NYC. I don't see this as solving a congestion issue.
    Solving a problem? 😂😂 they’re not interested in solving problems. Just in generating more money to mismanage and waste. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,010
    It’s dynamic pricing based on time of day/day of week implemented by cameras and transponder/sensors. Don’t have a transponder? No worries, a camera takes a picture of your plate and you get a bill in the mail, or more accurately, the registered owner of the vehicle. Bloomberg wanted this so it’s nothing new. Toll roads work the same way but London, Paris and other cities have had it in place to reduce traffic in the “downtown” core during the “rush” hours and encourage use of public transit.
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  • eddieceddiec Posts: 3,880
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    It’s dynamic pricing based on time of day/day of week implemented by cameras and transponder/sensors. Don’t have a transponder? No worries, a camera takes a picture of your plate and you get a bill in the mail, or more accurately, the registered owner of the vehicle. Bloomberg wanted this so it’s nothing new. Toll roads work the same way but London, Paris and other cities have had it in place to reduce traffic in the “downtown” core during the “rush” hours and encourage use of public transit.
    Venice has it as well. Not even a car toll, it's a walking toll.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,260
    #stupid
    They already have crazy tolls.  Pretty sure it is $27 to drive to Manhattan for me, from NJ.  
    Sure, it doesn't deter me...but I'm a jackass who doesn't bother about $27.  It is too high.  
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,010
    eddiec said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    It’s dynamic pricing based on time of day/day of week implemented by cameras and transponder/sensors. Don’t have a transponder? No worries, a camera takes a picture of your plate and you get a bill in the mail, or more accurately, the registered owner of the vehicle. Bloomberg wanted this so it’s nothing new. Toll roads work the same way but London, Paris and other cities have had it in place to reduce traffic in the “downtown” core during the “rush” hours and encourage use of public transit.
    Venice has it as well. Not even a car toll, it's a walking toll.
    Where/how do you pay it? They didn’t have it in 2018, I don’t think? I loved Venice for that reason alone, no cars. 
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