I don't necessarily agree he's a better songwriter without the band. I thought Into the Wild was some of the best music he's written in a while, but I don't think that's because he'd been without the band. I think Brendan O'Brien coming back will help them reign in their best sound.
I think that Jeff was even quoted sometime recently on the matter. When asked why they brought Brendan back I think Jeff said that they trust his ear and within the band in recent years members of the band have not consistently agreed on what is a good song.
For examples of this, there are clearly songs on the last 3 PJ albums that were questionable, they're littered throughout Riot Act and some of Pearl Jam. There are also good songs that didn't get to their true potential. The bridge in Worldwide Suicide almost ruined the song. Loveboat Captain could have been better. Why was Sad not on Binaural? Nor All Night? Gone did not do anything for me.
Hopefully Brendan gets out of the band that focused, recognizable PJ sound that's not been as consistent since Yield. Binaural was still really good, though. I want that buildup that they used to have in most of their songs.... it's the opposite of something being looped and repeated for 4 mins.
There, I said it. Blast me all you like. But the ITW soundtrack and some of his other solo stuff (You're True, Satellite, and Longing to Belong in particular) has convinced me that Eddie's best work is that which is done on his own.
That doesn't mean I would want Eddie to go off solo from now on, only that in terms of pure SONGWRITING (not energy, not performance, not even overall greatness), Eddie solo is simply superior to Eddie + PJ.
Eddie wrote some great music for Into the Wild...no doubt.
But let's not get out of hand here ...
He's a great lyricist, songwriter and guitar player (much improved in recent years)
But his songwriting is still best within the Pearl Jam vehicle.
I believe that the combined talents of Mike, Stone, Jeff, and Matt is what takes Eddie's songs to a greater level.
Look
They're all amazing musicians...and obviously any music that comes from these guys is going to be great...
But I truly believe that it's the mixture of all these different musical talents and ideas that really adds depth and texture to the music that I'm certain no individual member could fully cature on their own.
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
HAHAHAHAHA WORD!
that's like my favorite movie quote ever.
Seriously though, ITW was good, but almost ever song on it had me craving some Stone and Jeff.
"Well, I think this band is incapable of sucking."
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
And I'm not living this life without you, I'm selfish and clear
And you're not leaving here without me, I don't wanna be without
My best... friend. Wake up, to see you could have it all
Pearl Jam is like Voltron!!............separate they are still lethal and worthy adversaries.............but when they come together and form as one!!!!.........they are an unstoppable force!!!
Pearl Jam is like Voltron!!............separate they are still lethal and worthy adversaries.............but when they come together and form as one!!!!.........they are an unstoppable force!!!
(we all know Ed is the head though...right?)
Oh wow that takes me back! Freaking Voltron. Me and my brother used to hang onto my Dad's legs pretending we were the blue and yellow parts. Thanks Crazy Breed for reminding me of this!
Eddie wrote some great music for Into the Wild...no doubt.
But let's not get out of hand here ...
He's a great lyricist, songwriter and guitar player (much improved in recent years)
But his songwriting is still best within the Pearl Jam vehicle.
I believe that the combined talents of Mike, Stone, Jeff, and Matt is what takes Eddie's songs to a greater level.
Look
They're all amazing musicians...and obviously any music that comes from these guys is going to be great...
But I truly believe that it's the mixture of all these different musical talents and ideas that really adds depth and texture to the music that I'm certain no individual member could fully cature on their own.
If I'm understanding the original poster's argument correctly, nobody is arguing that the rest of the band can take ed's songs to a greater level ... that the FINISHED PRODUCT of his songs is better in Pearl Jam. That's kind of a given.
However, we're arguing the basic songwriting. The first germ of the idea of the song that Ed brings to the table. And, by and large I'm arguing, the songs that are written by Ed and Ed alone are better ... than when he's collaborated on the music or lyrics with someone else.
Obviously, this isn't ironclad. Black is a great song, regardless. It just seems when Ed writes his own song, he already has a good idea of how it should sound and how the melody should go ... and that makes the song better from the start.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
If I'm understanding the original poster's argument correctly, nobody is arguing that the rest of the band can take ed's songs to a greater level ... that the FINISHED PRODUCT of his songs is better in Pearl Jam. That's kind of a given.
However, we're arguing the basic songwriting. The first germ of the idea of the song that Ed brings to the table. And, by and large I'm arguing, the songs that are written by Ed and Ed alone are better ... than when he's collaborated on the music or lyrics with someone else.
Obviously, this isn't ironclad. Black is a great song, regardless. It just seems when Ed writes his own song, he already has a good idea of how it should sound and how the melody should go ... and that makes the song better from the start.
Thank you. I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me, but you're one of the few who understand my argument. I kind of gave up on it a while ago when every response seemed to completely disregard or misinterpret my point.
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Obviously, this isn't ironclad. Black is a great song, regardless. It just seems when Ed writes his own song, he already has a good idea of how it should sound and how the melody should go ... and that makes the song better from the start.
just sounds stubborn to me... music is too fluid and alive to have a perfect idea of what it will be from the very beginning and not allow it to grow throughout the process... thats the vibe i get from eds songs... they are EXACTLY what he had initially and nothing more... pretty boring in my opinion... theyre great because of his voice... but they lack the vitality and dimensions of a full PJ tune
....I don't agree, but it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I could kind of say the same thing about Matt Cameron. His songs with Wellwater Conspiracy are, on average, better than his work with PJ in my opinion. John McBain deserves his due credit, but Matt knocks it out of the park on songs like:
Sea Miner
Van Vanishing
Right of Left Field
Good Pushin'
Look, Ed is the shit as a songwriter. He brings thoughtfulness and introspection to songs, but the rest of the band builds around that. No Eddie, no pearl jam. No mike, stone, jeff, and insert drummer here, no Eddie. They compliment each other. No band accomplishes/creates what they do without a team effort. They, like most bands great bands, are greater than the sum of their parts.
just sounds stubborn to me... music is too fluid and alive to have a perfect idea of what it will be from the very beginning and not allow it to grow throughout the process... thats the vibe i get from eds songs... they are EXACTLY what he had initially and nothing more... pretty boring in my opinion... theyre great because of his voice... but they lack the vitality and dimensions of a full PJ tune
It's probably just a matter of taste. Some of us like Ed's songs without the rest of the band mucking them up (not really, but you know what I'm driving at).
Other people like other things.
I'm just saying for me, if I were to list my top, I dunno 50 Pearl Jam songs ... I'll bet half of them would be "Words and music by Ed Vedder."
Again, just a matter of taste.
Then again, I'm one of those people whose favorite moment at any given PJ show just might be the second encore, when it's just Ed and his guitar ...
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Look, Ed is the shit as a songwriter. He brings thoughtfulness and introspection to songs, but the rest of the band builds around that. No Eddie, no pearl jam. No mike, stone, jeff, and insert drummer here, no Eddie. They compliment each other. No band accomplishes/creates what they do without a team effort. They, like most bands great bands, are greater than the sum of their parts.
I don't think anyone on this thread disagrees with you. Nobody is saying Ed is better as a solo artist than as a member of Pearl Jam.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Oh wow that takes me back! Freaking Voltron. Me and my brother used to hang onto my Dad's legs pretending we were the blue and yellow parts. Thanks Crazy Breed for reminding me of this!
haha!!! yeah!!! voltron, defender of the universe.
seriously, pearl jam are a team. great team with a talented mix of musicians, not just eddie alone. stone had brad & the first one to record a solo album among them. jeff has three fish & a solo album too. mike has mad season & the rockfords. matt was with soundgarden & wellwater conspiracy. what more can you ask.
scratching my butt...
kinakamot ang aking puwit...
me rascando pompis...
krap mijn reet...
boku no ketsuoana o kizu...
bahrosh teezy...
But the OP is saying that Ed writes his best stuff without any of the other band members' input, while anything that Ed wrote on Vitalogy still had the other band members' input in the finished result.
Can't escape from the common rule...
If you hate something, don't you do it too
But the OP is saying that Ed writes his best stuff without any of the other band members' input, while anything that Ed wrote on Vitalogy still had the other band members' input in the finished result.
Well, I don't want to speak for the OP ... but from my perspective, when I'm talking about Ed's "songwriting" ... I'm talking about the foundation, the skeleton of a song, the first germ of the idea ... the song before the other members ever get a hold of it.
Every song starts bare-bones ... I think the songs whose "bare-bones" are Ed's and Ed's alone end up better. Yes, Mike adds his lead work, and Jeff adds a bass line, and Matt does his thing ... but the finished product is still very Ed. And, in general, I like those songs the best.
That's all I'm saying.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Well, I don't want to speak for the OP ... but from my perspective, when I'm talking about Ed's "songwriting" ... I'm talking about the foundation, the skeleton of a song, the first germ of the idea ... the song before the other members ever get a hold of it.
Every song starts bare-bones ... I think the songs whose "bare-bones" are Ed's and Ed's alone end up better. Yes, Mike adds his lead work, and Jeff adds a bass line, and Matt does his thing ... but the finished product is still very Ed. And, in general, I like those songs the best.
That's all I'm saying.
Oh, okay, I understand.
Can't escape from the common rule...
If you hate something, don't you do it too
I don't necessarily agree he's a better songwriter without the band. I thought Into the Wild was some of the best music he's written in a while, but I don't think that's because he'd been without the band. I think Brendan O'Brien coming back will help them reign in their best sound.
I think that Jeff was even quoted sometime recently on the matter. When asked why they brought Brendan back I think Jeff said that they trust his ear and within the band in recent years members of the band have not consistently agreed on what is a good song.
For examples of this, there are clearly songs on the last 3 PJ albums that were questionable, they're littered throughout Riot Act and some of Pearl Jam. There are also good songs that didn't get to their true potential. The bridge in Worldwide Suicide almost ruined the song. Loveboat Captain could have been better. Why was Sad not on Binaural? Nor All Night? Gone did not do anything for me.
Hopefully Brendan gets out of the band that focused, recognizable PJ sound that's not been as consistent since Yield. Binaural was still really good, though. I want that buildup that they used to have in most of their songs.... it's the opposite of something being looped and repeated for 4 mins.
Exactly my man!! Below par stuff has been getting on the recent PJ albums (Get Right, Evacuation, Gone, Come Back, Breakerfall,Help Help, Ghost) - The first 5 albums seemed filler free - I mean Habit or Satan's Bed are possibly the closest they got to filler, and those 2 songs beat most of Riot Act & Pearl Jam's songs.
I used to think their songwriting might be dwindling slightly, but listening to Into The Wild shows ED is still on top of his game. I think O'Brien will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, so we don't have to suffer another Evacuation, Ghost or Come Back.
I still wish PJ would have recorded "Satellite", I love that song so much. I know it's supposed to be minimalistic, but it just feels sort of unfinished to me.
I guess that goes for most of his solo work actually- great, but I wish the rest of the guys were there...
My rhymes and records they don't get played
Because my records and rhymes they don't get made
And if you rap like me you don't get paid
And if you roll like me you don't get laid.
The way I interpret it, that "words and music by Ed Vedder" songs -- be they solo songs or Pearl Jam songs -- generally come out better than "words by Vedder, music by other dudes" songs.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
think about the original statement the thread title makes:
eddie is a better songwriter without the rest of PJ.
this is kind of a redundant statement; eddie is the songwriter that he is with or without PJ.
Right, but that's not my point.
My point was that the songs that Eddie writes all on his own -- without contributions from the rest of the band -- are superior to the songs he writes WITH the band, or even FOR the band (ie, the songs that he writes for himself only).
Certainly a songwriter takes a different approach to songwriting when he/she is writing for his/her self rather than for a collective band, correct?
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
My point was that the songs that Eddie writes all on his own -- without contributions from the rest of the band -- are superior to the songs he writes WITH the band, or even FOR the band (ie, the songs that he writes for himself only).
Okay
Eddie Vedder writes great songs...Eddie Vedder is a cool motherfucker
But to say the songs written by Vedder solo are superior to anything he writes with the band...is just crazy talk.
The contributions of the rest of the band members to songs like:
"Rearviewmirror" "Porch" "Immortality" and "MFC" ...are what turns a great demo or song idea into a classic song.
Lift the guitar contributions of Mike and Stone off of any of the above songs and it completly changes the dynamic.
I don't think Vedder could have acheived the finished sound of those songs without the contributions of Stone, Mike, Jeff, and Matt.
The songs if left in their original form or left to Vedder to complete...would be considerably weaker as a result.
Each band member just needs to do what they do best again..there has been way too much "democracy" in the band, which I understand from a functional standpoint, but the art suffers.
McCready should never write lyrics again, unless he is trying to pen Celine Dion's next hit. I like the sentiment behind it, but Inside Job's lyrics were some of the worst of all time. Ed shouldn't get carried away with his guitar playing and writing chord progressions, and should let Stone/Mike carry that load. Jeff and Matt should continue to be the backbone rythym section.
If they can't do that and they continue to release derivitive albums like Avocado, its time to call it quits and do other things.
I'm preferring Ed's solo work these days. I also think ITW is one of the best things he's ever done. Right now I'd even rather see Ed touring again than the full band. But part of what makes Ed's solo stuff so cool is how he did an album and then toured and blew everyone away with his solo talent, but it's still just something on the side. Songs like Inside Job are just too awesome to say that I'd prefer Ed's writing over the rest of the band's. I love the last 2 albums and look forward to the next.
Anyway I'm not sure I can think about saying that Ed is better than the full band until Ed releases bootlegs.;)
Comments
Eddie
If you hate something, don't you do it too
I think that Jeff was even quoted sometime recently on the matter. When asked why they brought Brendan back I think Jeff said that they trust his ear and within the band in recent years members of the band have not consistently agreed on what is a good song.
For examples of this, there are clearly songs on the last 3 PJ albums that were questionable, they're littered throughout Riot Act and some of Pearl Jam. There are also good songs that didn't get to their true potential. The bridge in Worldwide Suicide almost ruined the song. Loveboat Captain could have been better. Why was Sad not on Binaural? Nor All Night? Gone did not do anything for me.
Hopefully Brendan gets out of the band that focused, recognizable PJ sound that's not been as consistent since Yield. Binaural was still really good, though. I want that buildup that they used to have in most of their songs.... it's the opposite of something being looped and repeated for 4 mins.
All Night was a No Code outtake.
If you hate something, don't you do it too
no chance!
But let's not get out of hand here ...
He's a great lyricist, songwriter and guitar player (much improved in recent years)
But his songwriting is still best within the Pearl Jam vehicle.
I believe that the combined talents of Mike, Stone, Jeff, and Matt is what takes Eddie's songs to a greater level.
Look
They're all amazing musicians...and obviously any music that comes from these guys is going to be great...
But I truly believe that it's the mixture of all these different musical talents and ideas that really adds depth and texture to the music that I'm certain no individual member could fully cature on their own.
HAHAHAHAHA WORD!
that's like my favorite movie quote ever.
Seriously though, ITW was good, but almost ever song on it had me craving some Stone and Jeff.
-my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
And you're not leaving here without me, I don't wanna be without
My best... friend. Wake up, to see you could have it all
(we all know Ed is the head though...right?)
If I'm understanding the original poster's argument correctly, nobody is arguing that the rest of the band can take ed's songs to a greater level ... that the FINISHED PRODUCT of his songs is better in Pearl Jam. That's kind of a given.
However, we're arguing the basic songwriting. The first germ of the idea of the song that Ed brings to the table. And, by and large I'm arguing, the songs that are written by Ed and Ed alone are better ... than when he's collaborated on the music or lyrics with someone else.
Obviously, this isn't ironclad. Black is a great song, regardless. It just seems when Ed writes his own song, he already has a good idea of how it should sound and how the melody should go ... and that makes the song better from the start.
for the least they could possibly do
Thank you. I'm not expecting everyone to agree with me, but you're one of the few who understand my argument. I kind of gave up on it a while ago when every response seemed to completely disregard or misinterpret my point.
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
http://seanbriceart.com/
I could kind of say the same thing about Matt Cameron. His songs with Wellwater Conspiracy are, on average, better than his work with PJ in my opinion. John McBain deserves his due credit, but Matt knocks it out of the park on songs like:
Sea Miner
Van Vanishing
Right of Left Field
Good Pushin'
~tauran
It's probably just a matter of taste. Some of us like Ed's songs without the rest of the band mucking them up (not really, but you know what I'm driving at).
Other people like other things.
I'm just saying for me, if I were to list my top, I dunno 50 Pearl Jam songs ... I'll bet half of them would be "Words and music by Ed Vedder."
Again, just a matter of taste.
Then again, I'm one of those people whose favorite moment at any given PJ show just might be the second encore, when it's just Ed and his guitar ...
for the least they could possibly do
I don't think anyone on this thread disagrees with you. Nobody is saying Ed is better as a solo artist than as a member of Pearl Jam.
for the least they could possibly do
haha!!! yeah!!! voltron, defender of the universe.
seriously, pearl jam are a team. great team with a talented mix of musicians, not just eddie alone. stone had brad & the first one to record a solo album among them. jeff has three fish & a solo album too. mike has mad season & the rockfords. matt was with soundgarden & wellwater conspiracy. what more can you ask.
kinakamot ang aking puwit...
me rascando pompis...
krap mijn reet...
boku no ketsuoana o kizu...
bahrosh teezy...
But the OP is saying that Ed writes his best stuff without any of the other band members' input, while anything that Ed wrote on Vitalogy still had the other band members' input in the finished result.
If you hate something, don't you do it too
Well, I don't want to speak for the OP ... but from my perspective, when I'm talking about Ed's "songwriting" ... I'm talking about the foundation, the skeleton of a song, the first germ of the idea ... the song before the other members ever get a hold of it.
Every song starts bare-bones ... I think the songs whose "bare-bones" are Ed's and Ed's alone end up better. Yes, Mike adds his lead work, and Jeff adds a bass line, and Matt does his thing ... but the finished product is still very Ed. And, in general, I like those songs the best.
That's all I'm saying.
for the least they could possibly do
Oh, okay, I understand.
If you hate something, don't you do it too
eddie is a better songwriter without the rest of PJ.
this is kind of a redundant statement; eddie is the songwriter that he is with or without PJ.
exactly what is the point of this thread then?
Exactly my man!! Below par stuff has been getting on the recent PJ albums (Get Right, Evacuation, Gone, Come Back, Breakerfall,Help Help, Ghost) - The first 5 albums seemed filler free - I mean Habit or Satan's Bed are possibly the closest they got to filler, and those 2 songs beat most of Riot Act & Pearl Jam's songs.
I used to think their songwriting might be dwindling slightly, but listening to Into The Wild shows ED is still on top of his game. I think O'Brien will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, so we don't have to suffer another Evacuation, Ghost or Come Back.
I guess that goes for most of his solo work actually- great, but I wish the rest of the guys were there...
Because my records and rhymes they don't get made
And if you rap like me you don't get paid
And if you roll like me you don't get laid.
The way I interpret it, that "words and music by Ed Vedder" songs -- be they solo songs or Pearl Jam songs -- generally come out better than "words by Vedder, music by other dudes" songs.
for the least they could possibly do
Right, but that's not my point.
My point was that the songs that Eddie writes all on his own -- without contributions from the rest of the band -- are superior to the songs he writes WITH the band, or even FOR the band (ie, the songs that he writes for himself only).
Certainly a songwriter takes a different approach to songwriting when he/she is writing for his/her self rather than for a collective band, correct?
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Okay
Eddie Vedder writes great songs...Eddie Vedder is a cool motherfucker
But to say the songs written by Vedder solo are superior to anything he writes with the band...is just crazy talk.
The contributions of the rest of the band members to songs like:
"Rearviewmirror" "Porch" "Immortality" and "MFC" ...are what turns a great demo or song idea into a classic song.
Lift the guitar contributions of Mike and Stone off of any of the above songs and it completly changes the dynamic.
I don't think Vedder could have acheived the finished sound of those songs without the contributions of Stone, Mike, Jeff, and Matt.
The songs if left in their original form or left to Vedder to complete...would be considerably weaker as a result.
McCready should never write lyrics again, unless he is trying to pen Celine Dion's next hit. I like the sentiment behind it, but Inside Job's lyrics were some of the worst of all time. Ed shouldn't get carried away with his guitar playing and writing chord progressions, and should let Stone/Mike carry that load. Jeff and Matt should continue to be the backbone rythym section.
If they can't do that and they continue to release derivitive albums like Avocado, its time to call it quits and do other things.
Anyway I'm not sure I can think about saying that Ed is better than the full band until Ed releases bootlegs.;)