Raleigh boycott show in hindsight

Tim Simmons

To be clear, I have not said they need to apologize (more than the original cancellation announcement) 

igotid88

JP Losman said:

Its been about 7 years since PJ boycotted Raleigh because Charlotte passed a pro LGBTQ law that the state legislature reacted poorly to.   Now we are seeing horrible laws all over the country.   I wish PJ would acknowledge the boycott was a mistake.   I don't expect PJ to never play a state with bad laws again but its such hypocrisy to do so after their Raleigh boycott.   

How does other red states passing terrible laws make the boycott a mistake? 

JP Losman

igotid88 said:

JP Losman said:

Its been about 7 years since PJ boycotted Raleigh because Charlotte passed a pro LGBTQ law that the state legislature reacted poorly to.   Now we are seeing horrible laws all over the country.   I wish PJ would acknowledge the boycott was a mistake.   I don't expect PJ to never play a state with bad laws again but its such hypocrisy to do so after their Raleigh boycott.   

How does other red states passing terrible laws make the boycott a mistake? 

The boycott did not help pressure the state legislature (which is heavily gerrymandered) to change the law but did hurt lots of people financially.  Not just the concert go-ers who may have had to eat some travel costs etc. but also local businesses.   Other states passing horrible laws sets a precedent for Pearl Jam.  They said they couldn't play North Carolina in good conscience because of support of human rights (overlooking the fact that Charlotte was being pro-active and passed a progressive bathroom bill where as other places they played before and after did not such thing).   Now, several states have even more draconian laws related to transgender rights.   Far worse then NC state legislature overriding Charlotte's initiative.   Florida just punished a private business  for having a drag show by suspending their liquor license (not that drag is transgender but its related for GOP purposes).  Mississippi, Utah, Tennessee, Lousianna, Texas Kentucky...more states have crazy laws.  I love what Yo La Tengo did recently in Tennessee, playing a show in drag.   That was a baller way to make a statement and support a cause.   What is Pearl Jam going to do in these states and several others?   This isn't even mentioning abortion rights or other things.   How in "good conscience" can they play those states.  Oh right, because it really was the pressure of Bruce Springstein.   I hope PJ continues to play music everywhere but they did establish an important precedent about where they stand and what they feel compelled to do about these laws.   It is a different time.  Things are worse.  That doesn't mean that PJ should do less now, does it?   They have recently played Louisville etc. and other states with these laws.   Its hypocritical without acknowledgment that NC boycott was short sided at the time and in hindsight.   

ComeToTX

I saw them on the last tour in Oklahoma City, Nashville and Budapest. I had to chuckle that they canceled Raleigh over that bill. 

Weston1283

They were following the trend at the time, as many large acts were cancelling.  It would have been a bad look if Bruce and others had cancelled but PJ played.

To me, the unfortunate part is the fact that it's been 7 years and no effort has been made to reschedule both Raleigh and the other cancelled shows.  PJ has made it fairly clear that "cancelled" means "sorry, you're out of luck.  See you in 15 years the next time we hit your region, maybe"

Merkin Baller

I would have to guess even in hindsight that the band would stand by the decision they made at the time. 

They seem to stick to their guns on things like this,. 

igotid88

JP Losman said:

igotid88 said:

JP Losman said:

Its been about 7 years since PJ boycotted Raleigh because Charlotte passed a pro LGBTQ law that the state legislature reacted poorly to.   Now we are seeing horrible laws all over the country.   I wish PJ would acknowledge the boycott was a mistake.   I don't expect PJ to never play a state with bad laws again but its such hypocrisy to do so after their Raleigh boycott.   

How does other red states passing terrible laws make the boycott a mistake? 

The boycott did not help pressure the state legislature (which is heavily gerrymandered) to change the law but did hurt lots of people financially.  Not just the concert go-ers who may have had to eat some travel costs etc. but also local businesses.   Other states passing horrible laws sets a precedent for Pearl Jam.  They said they couldn't play North Carolina in good conscience because of support of human rights (overlooking the fact that Charlotte was being pro-active and passed a progressive bathroom bill where as other places they played before and after did not such thing).   Now, several states have even more draconian laws related to transgender rights.   Far worse then NC state legislature overriding Charlotte's initiative.   Florida just punished a private business  for having a drag show by suspending their liquor license (not that drag is transgender but its related for GOP purposes).  Mississippi, Utah, Tennessee, Lousianna, Texas Kentucky...more states have crazy laws.  I love what Yo La Tengo did recently in Tennessee, playing a show in drag.   That was a baller way to make a statement and support a cause.   What is Pearl Jam going to do in these states and several others?   This isn't even mentioning abortion rights or other things.   How in "good conscience" can they play those states.  Oh right, because it really was the pressure of Bruce Springstein.   I hope PJ continues to play music everywhere but they did establish an important precedent about where they stand and what they feel compelled to do about these laws.   It is a different time.  Things are worse.  That doesn't mean that PJ should do less now, does it?   They have recently played Louisville etc. and other states with these laws.   Its hypocritical without acknowledgment that NC boycott was short sided at the time and in hindsight.   

The NBA also pulled the All Star Game from there. I don't think they were under pressure from Bruce. And did that progressive bill pass that same year? Or after? Was there a change in parties? Also why didn't they explain that's what they were doing with the bill?

pjl44

Merkin Baller said:

I would have to guess even in hindsight that the band would stand by the decision they made at the time. 

They seem to stick to their guns on things like this,. 

As Stephen Colbert famously joked about George W. Bush, "He believes the same thing Thursday as he did Tuesday.....regardless of what he learned Wednesday."

on2legs

PJ was right in the moment to stand up for what they believe in.  You might disagree but... Asking them to apologize is ridiculous.

Merkin Baller

on2legs said:

PJ was right in the moment to stand up for what they believe in.  You might disagree but... Asking them to apologize is ridiculous.

That's more or less what I was getting at with my earlier comment. 

I can't imagine they're losing any sleep over the decision now 7 years later.

Get_Right

It killed the vibe at Hampton. I have no issue with the band's decisions. It is what is and out of our control.

F Me In The Brain

Tim Simmons said:

JP Losman said:

pjl44 said:

cincybearcat said:

ComeToTX said:

cincybearcat said:

ComeToTX said:

They say hindsight is 20/20 for a reason. 

It was a mistake without the hindsight.  

That’s your opinion. I had tickets and flew out for it. It was annoying but I understand what they were doing at the time. Not sure what coming out 7 years later and saying it was a mistake would achieve. Move on. 

Yes it's my opinion, that's what a messageboard is for.  I don't care about it, don;t hold some sort of grudge.  Just my opinion that is was the wrong call even at that moment...didn't need years to look back and see.

I didn't start the topic, just replied....like you did before me. So you telling me to move on is quite comical.

"Move on from this topic!" - Guy posting in thread on the topic

Haha...that is funny.   I think some people feel like they have to defend the band no matter what.  Our heroes aren't perfect.  They are human and flawed and make mistakes.  And it doesn't make you a bigger or better fan to defend them in every situation.  

I also think its worth pointing out, just because someone speaks up in defense, or are contrarian, doesn't make people out to be perpetual defenders of the band. Just because pushback exists, doesn't mean its the same people doing it.

The perpetual contrarians are the ones that irk me
I'd rather someone love the band than arguing.

ComeToTX

Get_Right said:

It killed the vibe at Hampton. I have no issue with the band's decisions. It is what is and out of our control.

It didn’t help in Columbia either. 

PureandEasy

ComeToTX said:

cincybearcat said:

ComeToTX said:

They say hindsight is 20/20 for a reason. 

It was a mistake without the hindsight.  

That’s your opinion. I had tickets and flew out for it. It was annoying but I understand what they were doing at the time. Not sure what coming out 7 years later and saying it was a mistake would achieve. Move on. 

So did I, found out the night before.  Had tickets to show in SC too so I still went and had a good time with friends.  The only disappointing thing was the last-minute notification, other than that I agreed 100%.  States that restrict freedom or rights should not benefit from tourism money and if artists, sporting organizations, etc.  choose to boycott and hold there events elsewhere, good on them.  

vant0037

Feels appropriate here:

"You tell me that I make no difference

At least I'm fucking trying

What the fuck have you done?"

-Minor Threat

The whole "you did one thing once, so why aren't you doing it always?" argument always gets lobbed at people and artists and bands and acts that try to do something, by people who know that its pretty impossible to always be consistent in a globalized world.  Support animal rights?  Don't wear leather, wear canvas.  Canvas is made by children in sweatshops?  Go barefoot?  No.  Do the best you fucking can and stop listening to the moral warriors who disingenuously call out "hypocrisy."

Not directed at you OP, but just where this argument always goes and always will go.

vant0037

Also, having traveled to London to have one of the shows cancelled (unrelated to politics), I know that it sucks to have a show get cancelled.  Really.  No qualifications.  It stinks.

Merkin Baller

vant0037 said:

Feels appropriate here:

"You tell me that I make no difference

At least I'm fucking trying

What the fuck have you done?"

-Minor Threat

The whole "you did one thing once, so why aren't you doing it always?" argument always gets lobbed at people and artists and bands and acts that try to do something, by people who know that its pretty impossible to always be consistent in a globalized world.  Support animal rights?  Don't wear leather, wear canvas.  Canvas is made by children in sweatshops?  Go barefoot?  No.  Do the best you fucking can and stop listening to the moral warriors who disingenuously call out "hypocrisy."

Not directed at you OP, but just where this argument always goes and always will go.

Reminded me of the Bors cartoon 

pjl44

Chalk one up for "show up and speak" vs. "take your ball and go home."

vant0037

Possibly, but these aren’t exactly the same either.. Lots of ways to make a political point.  Boycotts (aka “take your ball and go home”) have been done for a very long time.  Sometimes successful, sometimes not.  Doesn’t mean that because it didn’t work or they haven’t been consistent, it’s the wrong thing (or right thing!) to have done.  Disney’s not boycotting anything, and neither are the LGBTQ+ folks who will be attending. Like you said, two different approaches. Maybe this makes Florida change their laws, maybe it doesn’t. But if it doesn’t work, it won’t mean the activism wasn’t worth it.

boycott vs. sit-in. Which one’s a better form of activism?  Depends on which concert got canceled I guess!

MayDay10

I was one on the verge of travelling with tickets in hand.  It was pretty sucky.

I'm not mad at them at what they did, and I dont want to criticize that particular decision... nor do I want any sort of apology, make-up show, etc...  It is what it was at this point.


But I do hope they do think twice if faced with a similar decision in the future.  Ultimately, cancelling does almost nothing but get your name in the news cycle for a few hours until the next batch of shiny objects come along.  It disproportionately punishes the fans, the majority of which agree with the band's views.  There are more effective ways to take a stand IMO.  
Also, there is bad shit everywhere.  Show me a state and I can probably pick out law(s) shitting on somebody.

regalturbo

I think it is interesting that Madonna appears to be taking the opposite approach to a similar grievance:

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/3920950-madonna-tennessee-stop-anti-lgbtq-legislation/

jimjam1982

Can't believe this thread hasn't been moved yet.  In hindsight, NC was right and PJ was wrong.  They probably know this going forward and having daughters being marginalized by men masquerading as women.  But why lose sleep over it - they stood up for their belief at the time.  Good for them.

Lost In Ohio

jimjam1982 said:

Can't believe this thread hasn't been moved yet.  In hindsight, NC was right and PJ was wrong.  They probably know this going forward and having daughters being marginalized by men masquerading as women.  But why lose sleep over it - they stood up for their belief at the time.  Good for them.

So you're worried about drag queens. There isn't a roll eyes emoji big enough.

Meanwhile, how many straight men have murdered school kids? Oh, they have the right to own that gun, don't they?

But hey, people still think dudes are getting their dicks chopped off just because they're not good at sports. Another roll eyes.

lexicondevil

jimjam1982 said:

Can't believe this thread hasn't been moved yet.  In hindsight, NC was right and PJ was wrong.  They probably know this going forward and having daughters being marginalized by men masquerading as women.  But why lose sleep over it - they stood up for their belief at the time.  Good for them.

Seriously? Wow. Just wow. The right is now blaming EVERYTHING on drag queens. Pathetic. This thread needs to be closed.