Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one. When you gonna give me some time, Sharona? Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run. Gun it comin' off the line Sharona Never gonna stop, give it up. Such a dirty mind. I always get it up For the touch Of the younger kind. My my my i yi woo. M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?
It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:
"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in school
I've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me today
It's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...
Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound I'm on Fire- Bruce Springsteen
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:
Stray Cat Blues
Song by The Rolling Stones
Lyrics
I hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs I know you're no scare-eyed honey. There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13] No I don't want your I.D. And I can see that you're so far from home But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that. You look so weird and you're so far from home But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that I bet she don't know you can bite like that. You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you Why don't you bring her upstairs If she's so wild then she can join in too It's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.
I think every single storyline in Almost Famous happened more times than anyone knows. I always said if I ever meet Cameron Crowe, I want to ask about the whole "Spend lots of time with a band, write an honest story, band feels totally betrayed because you name drugs and side girlfriends/groupies" because I worked (as part of the production staff, to be clear!) at a show in the late 80s/early 90s and when the band arrived they were in FOUL moods. After the show one band member got annoyed with an after show guest and pushed him backwards and he almost fell down some stairs. I was like "What the HELL are these guys always like this?" and their tour manager told me "They are really upset. We let a journalist into our inner circle and took him on tour with us and everything... and we just got an advance copy of the story he wrote, he tells a lot of details we never thought he'd actually write..." and the mag was Rolling Stone.
But even that exact scenario probably happened multiple times, to multiple bands and journalists, so what I saw may not have at all been a band that happened to Crowe with.
I wanna know if any band ever got their band t-shirts printed only to find the singer in the foreground the only clear image, and the band all in the back blurry & in the shadows! That cracked me up! Wait, was it the singer or the guitar player in Stillwater who was foreground?
Guitarist was up front.
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
On the namedropping, you're right, and I'm sorry, it is probably annoying to reference these and not name names. My rule is I only name names when what happened was really public or it's well known, so I apologize for those but when I know or was there because someone trusted me or I know it's really personal, I don't. Those examples were just so relevant to our conversation, but I wont do that again. Sorry, I get annoyed too when people do that!
That said, many times during lockdown I swore I'd do what people have told me to do for years and at least write up a few of my crazy experiences. My "Most Rock N Roll 24 Hours" ever experience is the best single story, and I'll name names in that one because it was INXS, I was young & more naive about a few things than I realized, but it all turned out great (nothing happened to me at least) and was such an adventure of a 24 hr period! It was a night that eventually included me, after the show, at the after party at a fancy upper west side restaurant, sitting at a table with 3 members of INXS (including Michael Hutchence), & also actress Kelly McGillis (Top Gun & other films), and Andy frickin' Warhol! At one point I felt a bump on the top of my head, it was a photographer's camera that bumped me, he apologized as he shot some pics, and the next Rolling Stone that came out I realized he was one of the Random Notes Photogs from that era because the pic of Hutchence, McGillis & Warhol that was published in the mag was taken from right over my head at the table. There's so much more to the story, and even though **I** did NOT do most of "the things", that night checked off so many "rock n roll cliches" that happened and I was present for or observed or experienced.
So that is one tale I still need to write up and I'll name names, because no one that would be named would care, they publicly tell their own far more crazy stories about their days then than anything I have to say.
Doing a Google search and there's conflicting reports of whether the girl was 14 or 16, but the story is Tyler became her legal guardian, impregnated her and she had an abortion, then he basically sent her back to her mother. Her name is Julia Holcomb.
And I've read Kiedis' book, he certainly is no saint and I've read The Dirt and know a lot of the Crue stuff, but to piggyback on the Tommy lee skateboard story, I've met Nikki Sixx and he couldn't have been a nicer guy. Plus, if you follow his socials, he's very supportive of folks regarding getting sober whenever they reach out to him.
But bottom line is lots of these rock stars who get idolized have done lots of bad stuff.
That's cool about Nikki Sixx. I know someone who knew Crue well "back in the day" and she has creepy story after creepy story, but hopefully maybe they've realized some stuff was seriously bad news, and yeah if they're now doing good stuff and supportive of better choices, we're all human so that is to be respected. A few of them (rockstars, not Crue specifically) seem to have never learned though and justify their actions to this day. I was so glad the Stones took "Brown Sugar" out of their setlists, but Keith Richards tried to seriously call it a "historical, documentary-like" song and I wanted to hunt him down and hit him over the head with Tommy Lee's motorized skateboard.
But there's a reason they say "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely". Because it's true in so many cases, and is a big reason we're all still fans of this band PJ because no one is perfect, no one is a saint whether famous or not, but it is SO MUCH HARDER to keep your values and your wits and your actions in line when the world worships you and everyone wants part of you. It's so hard to keep your sense of self in check. PJ is one of the few bands that got to that insane level of fame and worked and worked to keep their sanity in check. And to try to be good to people often taken for granted as a band rises. And to keep trying to make relevant music.
Also, as many big rockstars are there are that've done bad things, wow are there some lesser rockstars who've done even WORSE! Something about not quite getting to the level of fame you feel you deserve can make some people into serious sadists. Marilyn Manson was super famous but is also a good example of how bad it can get in how you treat people in your private life. And there are other musicians in jail for pedophilia and other sex crimes so... at least once in awhile (sadlly usually only in extreme cases) there is accountability.
Gigi Allen...
Yeah GG Allin too. It's frightening how many examples there are, both of those actually arrested, and way more who should have been...
Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one. When you gonna give me some time, Sharona? Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run. Gun it comin' off the line Sharona Never gonna stop, give it up. Such a dirty mind. I always get it up For the touch Of the younger kind. My my my i yi woo. M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?
It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:
"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in school
I've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me today
It's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...
Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound I'm on Fire- Bruce Springsteen
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:
Stray Cat Blues
Song by The Rolling Stones
Lyrics
I hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs I know you're no scare-eyed honey. There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13] No I don't want your I.D. And I can see that you're so far from home But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that. You look so weird and you're so far from home But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that I bet she don't know you can bite like that. You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you Why don't you bring her upstairs If she's so wild then she can join in too It's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.
I think every single storyline in Almost Famous happened more times than anyone knows. I always said if I ever meet Cameron Crowe, I want to ask about the whole "Spend lots of time with a band, write an honest story, band feels totally betrayed because you name drugs and side girlfriends/groupies" because I worked (as part of the production staff, to be clear!) at a show in the late 80s/early 90s and when the band arrived they were in FOUL moods. After the show one band member got annoyed with an after show guest and pushed him backwards and he almost fell down some stairs. I was like "What the HELL are these guys always like this?" and their tour manager told me "They are really upset. We let a journalist into our inner circle and took him on tour with us and everything... and we just got an advance copy of the story he wrote, he tells a lot of details we never thought he'd actually write..." and the mag was Rolling Stone.
But even that exact scenario probably happened multiple times, to multiple bands and journalists, so what I saw may not have at all been a band that happened to Crowe with.
I wanna know if any band ever got their band t-shirts printed only to find the singer in the foreground the only clear image, and the band all in the back blurry & in the shadows! That cracked me up! Wait, was it the singer or the guitar player in Stillwater who was foreground?
Guitarist was up front.
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
Have been watching a lot of "Pluto t.v." lately, the decades music channel, with 70s, 80s & 90s videos in particular.
Recently saw The Knack's "My Sharona" video. I've known all the words for as long as I can remember, but something about watching the singer sing the lyrics as I sung them, I suddenly caught lines in the chorus like it was my first time hearing it:
"Ooh my little pretty one, my pretty one. When you gonna give me some time, Sharona? Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run. Gun it comin' off the line Sharona Never gonna stop, give it up. Such a dirty mind. I always get it up For the touch Of the younger kind. My my my i yi woo. M M M My Sharona"
"I ALWAYS GET IT UP FOR THE TOUCH OF THE YOUNGER KIND"???? I was like "Holy moly what have I been singing since I was a GIRL myself??? (Never mind that their sequel album was "Good Girls Don't, But I Do"...) Honestly that song, Ringo Starr's "You're 16, You're Beautiful, & You're Mine" featuring a young woman in pigtails drinking an ice cream soda and him fully bearded and NOT teenage looking, and also Rod Stewart's "Tonight's the Night": "Don't say a word, my virgin child / Just let your inhibitions run wild / The secret is about to unfold / upstairs before the night's too old" like, wow, older guys with literal GIRLS was such a blatant thing then!
How about you, any songs you sang for years and then suddenly the lyrics hit you differently later in life? (Doesn't have to be crude, just not what you thought)?
It's amazing how many songs slip under the radar like that. John Mayall has done that a few times. For example:
"She's Too Young"
Sixteen, she is still in school
I've got to learn to keep it cool
She's too young, but not for me
So with a bit of luck
She will find a way to come to me
Why do people always intervene?
Very soon she'll be seventeen
She's too young to skip town
She was born to be loved
And I can't wait to bury her down
She's beautiful and waits for me
Will our plans ever come to be?
She's too young, so people say
But with the opportunity
She would run to me today
It's not like we don't know kids "fool around" but Mayall was 36 when he wrote that song and was living in Laurel Canyon outside of L.A. "Umm, John, that actually not legal in the U.S. No, John, not even 17."
So in the Create a 5 song playlist thread I did this...
Mention of "Little girl" in song somewhere... I know there are more, I have always found the term weird for an adult to say and be recorded...
Whiskey Bar- The Doors Magic Carpet Ride- Steppin Wolf Little bitty pretty one- Thurston Harris Little Girl- Syndicate of Sound I'm on Fire- Bruce Springsteen
She's only 17 is a song title by Winger I think? Hold on to 18 is by Black n Blue. A line in the Chilli peppers song says "I like but, she little".
There are a bunch of songs out there with questionable lyrics...
Good search! And then there's some infamous song, I'm blanking on the title but it's a Rolling Stones song (I mean, aside from Brown Sugar, don't get me started on "Brown Sugar/How come you taste so good/Brown Sugar/Just like a Black girl should" and the whole literal slavery lyrics!!!) but another: It's "Stray Cat Blues" with, by the time the Stones toured on "Beggars Banquet" album which it's on, they were singing this:
Stray Cat Blues
Song by The Rolling Stones
Lyrics
I hear the click-clack of your feet on the stairs I know you're no scare-eyed honey. There'll be a feast if you just come upstairs But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
I can see that you're THIRTEEN YEARS OLD [Original lyrics 15 but they LOWERED it to 13] No I don't want your I.D. And I can see that you're so far from home But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat
I bet, bet your mama don't know you scream like that I bet your mother don't know you can spit like that. You look so weird and you're so far from home But you don't really miss your mother
Don't look so scared I'm no mad-brained bear But it's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh, yeah Woo!
I bet your mama don't know that you scatch like that I bet she don't know you can bite like that. You say you got a friend, that she's wilder than you Why don't you bring her upstairs If she's so wild then she can join in too It's no hanging matter It's no capital crime
Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat Oh yeah, don'tcha scratch like that Oh yeah, you're a strange stray cat I bet you mama don't know you can bite like that I'll bet she never saw you scratch my back ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's all awful, but that line "Don't look so scared / I'm no mad-brained bear" followed by basically "But I'm not going to jail or getting sentenced to hanging for it, so I'm gonna do it anyway", the fact that she (because he did write it about a specific girl say numerous sources) KNEW she was scared just pisses me off no end.
Just found this article about the whole dynamic and how most rockstars of that era were "forgiven" in that "Oh that's just how it was then" attitude:
I know if I really think about it I'd find some other songs that were disturbing but never really LISTENED to it that way. When you're younger things just roll off you I guess?
For groupies and debauchery Motley Crue and Poison are on the tops of those lists. Poison would record what they did. Motley Crue were known for outright craziness and like you said, it was "forgiven" back then. Nowadays you have stars getting nailed for grooming underage girls and they should get in trouble. That is shady in any form.
I think some of the bands from late 60's and 70's far exceeded Motley and Poison in the debauchery department, just not as widely publicized. Zep certainly is up there. Steven Tyler had the parents of a 14 year old sign over guardianship of her so she could live with him. Gene $immon$ of course had his Polaroid collection...and so on.
So the movie Almost Famous wasn't exaggerating when they would pass around groupies like a deck of cards? I never heard that Steven Tyler story before. Interesting.
W Crue and Poison I was keeping it civil. Those dudes were pretty bad.
Anthony Keidus was no saint either. His book tells a lot about him.
I think every single storyline in Almost Famous happened more times than anyone knows. I always said if I ever meet Cameron Crowe, I want to ask about the whole "Spend lots of time with a band, write an honest story, band feels totally betrayed because you name drugs and side girlfriends/groupies" because I worked (as part of the production staff, to be clear!) at a show in the late 80s/early 90s and when the band arrived they were in FOUL moods. After the show one band member got annoyed with an after show guest and pushed him backwards and he almost fell down some stairs. I was like "What the HELL are these guys always like this?" and their tour manager told me "They are really upset. We let a journalist into our inner circle and took him on tour with us and everything... and we just got an advance copy of the story he wrote, he tells a lot of details we never thought he'd actually write..." and the mag was Rolling Stone.
But even that exact scenario probably happened multiple times, to multiple bands and journalists, so what I saw may not have at all been a band that happened to Crowe with.
I wanna know if any band ever got their band t-shirts printed only to find the singer in the foreground the only clear image, and the band all in the back blurry & in the shadows! That cracked me up! Wait, was it the singer or the guitar player in Stillwater who was foreground?
Guitarist was up front.
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
I totally agree. I think because I grew up liking a lot of bands with messages about standing up for what's right, I've always been clear to distance myself from an artist or band that publicly or verifiably did some seriously crappy stuff or promotes stuff I view as crappy.
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous )
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
I totally agree. I think because I grew up liking a lot of bands with messages about standing up for what's right, I've always been clear to distance myself from an artist or band that publicly or verifiably did some seriously crappy stuff or promotes stuff I view as crappy.
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous )
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...
I don't know enough about Morrissey to know his political views although I do remember something about him having a strong hatred for Royalty.
Yeah, I agree about the whole "cancel culture" thing. Same with "politically correct" as a term that is too easy to jump on too quickly. Those are terms that are more about ego and shaming others. Both are also more about people yelling at each other without enough introspection. I was actually encouraged when someone I knew who considered herself to be "politically correct" later retracted that and admitted to some imperfections she admitted about herself that she wanted to correct. That seems a lot more constructive to me.
Steve Hoffman is a top notch recording engineer who has done a lot of excellent audiophile mastering and, from what I know of him, seems like a really nice guy. I learned about his website one day years back by doing a Google search for "what is the best sounding pressing of...(whatever album I was interested in at the time)", and came up with a thread on one of the music forums. The music related information that can be gleaned from that site can be excellent though I have found the forums have too often degraded to petty on-line bickering. But what's new, right, lol?
That goes into the whole other subject of the decline of civility which, unfortunately, I think is one of the drawbacks to the internet. The internet has provided much good in the way of making information vastly available, but it has also allowed, I think, I certain amount of "freedom" to be rude and obnoxious because of the ability to hide behind anonymity. That's one of the reasons I use my real name as my user name. That may not make me the best person in the world and it certainly doesn't necessarily make me "right" about everything, but it keeps me honest.
Here's Steve's website page. You can read the forums (by clicking on "forums") without joining and if you decide to join, although Steve does occasionally ask for donations to cover the expenses of running the site, there is no fee to join (and I don't know why the site address includes the term "tv" since he is all about music recording, not TV!):
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.
It's interesting how (at least up until Ray Manzarek died) the band became fragmented when John Densmore stood strong on defending Morrison's adamant wish to not let the band's songs (or more to the point, Morrison's lyrics) be used in advertising and commercialism. Densmore took Krieger and Manzarek to court over the issue. His efforts where supported by Neil Young, Eddie Vedder, Tom Petty, Tom Waits, Bonnie Raitt and Randy Newman, and he was successful in maintaining Morrison's wishes.
His books about those events, The Doors Unhinged, is worth checking out:
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
I totally agree. I think because I grew up liking a lot of bands with messages about standing up for what's right, I've always been clear to distance myself from an artist or band that publicly or verifiably did some seriously crappy stuff or promotes stuff I view as crappy.
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous )
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...
I don't know enough about Morrissey to know his political views although I do remember something about him having a strong hatred for Royalty.
Yeah, I agree about the whole "cancel culture" thing. Same with "politically correct" as a term that is too easy to jump on too quickly. Those are terms that are more about ego and shaming others. Both are also more about people yelling at each other without enough introspection. I was actually encouraged when someone I knew who considered herself to be "politically correct" later retracted that and admitted to some imperfections she admitted about herself that she wanted to correct. That seems a lot more constructive to me.
Steve Hoffman is a top notch recording engineer who has done a lot of excellent audiophile mastering and, from what I know of him, seems like a really nice guy. I learned about his website one day years back by doing a Google search for "what is the best sounding pressing of...(whatever album I was interested in at the time)", and came up with a thread on one of the music forums. The music related information that can be gleaned from that site can be excellent though I have found the forums have too often degraded to petty on-line bickering. But what's new, right, lol?
That goes into the whole other subject of the decline of civility which, unfortunately, I think is one of the drawbacks to the internet. The internet has provided much good in the way of making information vastly available, but it has also allowed, I think, I certain amount of "freedom" to be rude and obnoxious because of the ability to hide behind anonymity. That's one of the reasons I use my real name as my user name. That may not make me the best person in the world and it certainly doesn't necessarily make me "right" about everything, but it keeps me honest.
Here's Steve's website page. You can read the forums (by clicking on "forums") without joining and if you decide to join, although Steve does occasionally ask for donations to cover the expenses of running the site, there is no fee to join (and I don't know why the site address includes the term "tv" since he is all about music recording, not TV!):
Oh yeah, no question that the anonymity allowed by the internet has both freed cowardly & insecure & also plain old MEAN people to say & do things they'd NEVER EVER say or do in the real world, with people standing right in front of them. And it's created the worst kinds of "echo chambers" where you can only engage with people who think as you do. Which is understandable to want in some ways, but horrible for staying in touch with the real world we're all living in.
When I was 21 I was in New Orleans with my college roommate. We were in a bar and these two members of a very famous band starting talking to us and buying us drinks. They must have been their in their mid to late 40s at the time. We had fun hanging out for a while. But then one of them asked my friend to give him a BJ or get away from him. The other guy kept trying to kiss me all night. I was able to stave him off. My friend actually started crying at this turn of events. We were enjoying hanging out with them and hearing their stories. We were both fans of the band. But we had no sexual interest in them. Clearly that was all they were after. So disappointing.
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.
That's very cool that Morrison did that. That's like I was reading an old journal where I was at a festival and met Joe Jackson's bassist Graham Maby, who told me that in their heyday, even though Jackson was unquestionably THE STAR and the focal point of the attention & fame, he privately told his manager to pay himself (Jackson) LESS than the other band members, because they had families & kids & Jackson didn't. I was so impressed by that.
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.
It's interesting how (at least up until Ray Manzarek died) the band became fragmented when John Densmore stood strong on defending Morrison's adamant wish to not let the band's songs (or more to the point, Morrison's lyrics) be used in advertising and commercialism. Densmore took Krieger and Manzarek to court over the issue. His efforts where supported by Neil Young, Eddie Vedder, Tom Petty, Tom Waits, Bonnie Raitt and Randy Newman, and he was successful in maintaining Morrison's wishes.
His books about those events, The Doors Unhinged, is worth checking out:
I always thought that was cool of him to keep the spirit of the band like that. One thing I always remembered about him.
When I was 21 I was in New Orleans with my college roommate. We were in a bar and these two members of a very famous band starting talking to us and buying us drinks. They must have been their in their mid to late 40s at the time. We had fun hanging out for a while. But then one of them asked my friend to give him a BJ or get away from him. The other guy kept trying to kiss me all night. I was able to stave him off. My friend actually started crying at this turn of events. We were enjoying hanging out with them and hearing their stories. We were both fans of the band. But we had no sexual interest in them. Clearly that was all they were after. So disappointing.
Which 2...
My guess is red and yellow...shifty looking mf'ers.
When I was 21 I was in New Orleans with my college roommate. We were in a bar and these two members of a very famous band starting talking to us and buying us drinks. They must have been their in their mid to late 40s at the time. We had fun hanging out for a while. But then one of them asked my friend to give him a BJ or get away from him. The other guy kept trying to kiss me all night. I was able to stave him off. My friend actually started crying at this turn of events. We were enjoying hanging out with them and hearing their stories. We were both fans of the band. But we had no sexual interest in them. Clearly that was all they were after. So disappointing.
Wow that is so disturbing & awful. Especially if you were fans. Remember the band Everclear? The leader Art Alexkakis(sp?) - I heard about him before meeting him but he could be TERRIBLE to women. Like made several cry, just like those guys did to your friend.
I know since "Me Too" movement way more people understand how widespread sexual abuse is. But back in the 70s, 80s & I'd say 90s too to a degree, people dismissed how often people with positional power (Like musicians talking to their fans) would totally abuse it, and take advantage of both people's politeness, worries about seeming rude or ungrateful, and also their naive faith that someone famous (Like Bill Cosby or so many actors in Hollywood) wouldn't just straight out assault a woman or a girl.
I think one reason I was really lucky is after getting to know some bands as a youth, in college when I wanted to work on the concert committee, all the "pretty girls" we're assigned the catering & band dressing rooms, but I was very plain looking or not their idea of "pretty" which meant I was local tech crew (sound & lights). This made me a roadie when there were almost NO female roadies, and bands would always gave me shit at first, but by end of show always gave me props for working my ass off & doing a good job. They'd say I was welcome at any other shows & when I showed up I hung with the boys. Anyone tried anything (& many did), the guys who knew me would lay into them or support me if I told them to F off. So I was really lucky.
Even further into adulthood I went to see old friends play in another city and there was a new guy in the band, married, but relentless about trying to get women in bed, all women. They offered me a ride on their bus because they were returning to my town, and they TOOK TURNS sitting on either side of me to keep their own band member away from me. He wasn't in the band anymore for the next tour...
When I was 21 I was in New Orleans with my college roommate. We were in a bar and these two members of a very famous band starting talking to us and buying us drinks. They must have been their in their mid to late 40s at the time. We had fun hanging out for a while. But then one of them asked my friend to give him a BJ or get away from him. The other guy kept trying to kiss me all night. I was able to stave him off. My friend actually started crying at this turn of events. We were enjoying hanging out with them and hearing their stories. We were both fans of the band. But we had no sexual interest in them. Clearly that was all they were after. So disappointing.
Which 2...
My guess is red and yellow...shifty looking mf'ers.
I do believe one Wiggle did go to alcohol or substance rehab at some point - totally serious!
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.
It's interesting how (at least up until Ray Manzarek died) the band became fragmented when John Densmore stood strong on defending Morrison's adamant wish to not let the band's songs (or more to the point, Morrison's lyrics) be used in advertising and commercialism. Densmore took Krieger and Manzarek to court over the issue. His efforts where supported by Neil Young, Eddie Vedder, Tom Petty, Tom Waits, Bonnie Raitt and Randy Newman, and he was successful in maintaining Morrison's wishes.
His books about those events, The Doors Unhinged, is worth checking out:
Cool, I didn't know about that. Right on Densmore!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.
It's interesting how (at least up until Ray Manzarek died) the band became fragmented when John Densmore stood strong on defending Morrison's adamant wish to not let the band's songs (or more to the point, Morrison's lyrics) be used in advertising and commercialism. Densmore took Krieger and Manzarek to court over the issue. His efforts where supported by Neil Young, Eddie Vedder, Tom Petty, Tom Waits, Bonnie Raitt and Randy Newman, and he was successful in maintaining Morrison's wishes.
His books about those events, The Doors Unhinged, is worth checking out:
Cool, I didn't know about that. Right on Densmore!
I met Densmore briefly at a book signing and he was super nice. It felt like meeting the Buddha or something. I'm exaggerating, lol, but seriously, he just has this good natured sweet soul about him. My wife and I both had that same sense. That was reaffirmed for me when I later read this other really fine book his wrote that came out in 2020:
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
When I was 21 I was in New Orleans with my college roommate. We were in a bar and these two members of a very famous band starting talking to us and buying us drinks. They must have been their in their mid to late 40s at the time. We had fun hanging out for a while. But then one of them asked my friend to give him a BJ or get away from him. The other guy kept trying to kiss me all night. I was able to stave him off. My friend actually started crying at this turn of events. We were enjoying hanging out with them and hearing their stories. We were both fans of the band. But we had no sexual interest in them. Clearly that was all they were after. So disappointing.
Wow that is so disturbing & awful. Especially if you were fans. Remember the band Everclear? The leader Art Alexkakis(sp?) - I heard about him before meeting him but he could be TERRIBLE to women. Like made several cry, just like those guys did to your friend.
I know since "Me Too" movement way more people understand how widespread sexual abuse is. But back in the 70s, 80s & I'd say 90s too to a degree, people dismissed how often people with positional power (Like musicians talking to their fans) would totally abuse it, and take advantage of both people's politeness, worries about seeming rude or ungrateful, and also their naive faith that someone famous (Like Bill Cosby or so many actors in Hollywood) wouldn't just straight out assault a woman or a girl.
I think one reason I was really lucky is after getting to know some bands as a youth, in college when I wanted to work on the concert committee, all the "pretty girls" we're assigned the catering & band dressing rooms, but I was very plain looking or not their idea of "pretty" which meant I was local tech crew (sound & lights). This made me a roadie when there were almost NO female roadies, and bands would always gave me shit at first, but by end of show always gave me props for working my ass off & doing a good job. They'd say I was welcome at any other shows & when I showed up I hung with the boys. Anyone tried anything (& many did), the guys who knew me would lay into them or support me if I told them to F off. So I was really lucky.
Even further into adulthood I went to see old friends play in another city and there was a new guy in the band, married, but relentless about trying to get women in bed, all women. They offered me a ride on their bus because they were returning to my town, and they TOOK TURNS sitting on either side of me to keep their own band member away from me. He wasn't in the band anymore for the next tour...
I've never heard that about Alexakis. He is very giving to people w MD I believe. He has been married 4 times so that's a sign of something.
When I was 21 I was in New Orleans with my college roommate. We were in a bar and these two members of a very famous band starting talking to us and buying us drinks. They must have been their in their mid to late 40s at the time. We had fun hanging out for a while. But then one of them asked my friend to give him a BJ or get away from him. The other guy kept trying to kiss me all night. I was able to stave him off. My friend actually started crying at this turn of events. We were enjoying hanging out with them and hearing their stories. We were both fans of the band. But we had no sexual interest in them. Clearly that was all they were after. So disappointing.
Wow that is so disturbing & awful. Especially if you were fans. Remember the band Everclear? The leader Art Alexkakis(sp?) - I heard about him before meeting him but he could be TERRIBLE to women. Like made several cry, just like those guys did to your friend.
I know since "Me Too" movement way more people understand how widespread sexual abuse is. But back in the 70s, 80s & I'd say 90s too to a degree, people dismissed how often people with positional power (Like musicians talking to their fans) would totally abuse it, and take advantage of both people's politeness, worries about seeming rude or ungrateful, and also their naive faith that someone famous (Like Bill Cosby or so many actors in Hollywood) wouldn't just straight out assault a woman or a girl.
I think one reason I was really lucky is after getting to know some bands as a youth, in college when I wanted to work on the concert committee, all the "pretty girls" we're assigned the catering & band dressing rooms, but I was very plain looking or not their idea of "pretty" which meant I was local tech crew (sound & lights). This made me a roadie when there were almost NO female roadies, and bands would always gave me shit at first, but by end of show always gave me props for working my ass off & doing a good job. They'd say I was welcome at any other shows & when I showed up I hung with the boys. Anyone tried anything (& many did), the guys who knew me would lay into them or support me if I told them to F off. So I was really lucky.
Even further into adulthood I went to see old friends play in another city and there was a new guy in the band, married, but relentless about trying to get women in bed, all women. They offered me a ride on their bus because they were returning to my town, and they TOOK TURNS sitting on either side of me to keep their own band member away from me. He wasn't in the band anymore for the next tour...
I've never heard that about Alexakis. He is very giving to people w MD I believe. He has been married 4 times so that's a sign of something.
Yeah, I named him because not only did I hear it from way too many women, I also witnessed a bit of it too.
GlowGirl I hope you tell people in your private life who that band was. They should be totally avoided if they still play.
I haven't told many people since nothing really happened since we left the situation - but at the time my young self wondered if it was my fault for being flirty or accepting drinks from them, etc. I was not overly traumatized by it though. The guy who was bothering me actually died of an overdose in the 90s, and the other guy is still playing, I believe. He must be in his 70s by now.
GlowGirl I hope you tell people in your private life who that band was. They should be totally avoided if they still play.
I haven't told many people since nothing really happened since we left the situation - but at the time my young self wondered if it was my fault for being flirty or accepting drinks from them, etc. I was not overly traumatized by it though. The guy who was bothering me actually died of an overdose in the 90s, and the other guy is still playing, I believe. He must be in his 70s by now.
That's what's so jacked up about it, women just having conversations and a good time and then to be treated like that, and our internalized sexism makes us feel responsible. That's just bad behavior, of course you were both smart to get out of there once they started saying crap like that.
Glad you're not traumatized, though it sounded like your friend was a bit? And the guy who demanded a BJ, well I think that's an actual something that happened, not a nothing even though you left the situation. He's still a complete shithead.
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.
It's interesting how (at least up until Ray Manzarek died) the band became fragmented when John Densmore stood strong on defending Morrison's adamant wish to not let the band's songs (or more to the point, Morrison's lyrics) be used in advertising and commercialism. Densmore took Krieger and Manzarek to court over the issue. His efforts where supported by Neil Young, Eddie Vedder, Tom Petty, Tom Waits, Bonnie Raitt and Randy Newman, and he was successful in maintaining Morrison's wishes.
His books about those events, The Doors Unhinged, is worth checking out:
Cool, I didn't know about that. Right on Densmore!
I met Densmore briefly at a book signing and he was super nice. It felt like meeting the Buddha or something. I'm exaggerating, lol, but seriously, he just has this good natured sweet soul about him. My wife and I both had that same sense. That was reaffirmed for me when I later read this other really fine book his wrote that came out in 2020:
Super happy to hear Densmore was a very cool guy. This book actually looks really interesting, did he interview everyone on the cover and more? Fascinating!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Didn't something like that happen w the Doors and an album cover? It went from The Doors to being Jim Morrison and The Doors or some shit and he was the main photo and the band.
MC story again. Those guys were usually drunk or high so when they were interviewed they gave no "F's". It is apparent when reading some of their earlier interviews.
Also, you have to start name dropping, you have all these crazy stories and no names to go with it. I am soooo curious on who did what.
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
I think you're right, I do remember a Doors album cover with Morrison in the front and the rest of the band in the background, though not in total shadow and blurry. Too funny, although I'm sure the rest of the Doors were not amused...
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
That's the one! And your assumption that they went on to see Jim as the meal ticket and acted accordingly makes total sense.
OK so something that Morrison did was make sure that the band all got equal say in everything. Each one owned 25% of the band, it's music and such. I believe it was Densmore that would often veto certain ideas that were later on and weren't exactly in line w how the Doors wanted their former selves to be seen.
It's interesting how (at least up until Ray Manzarek died) the band became fragmented when John Densmore stood strong on defending Morrison's adamant wish to not let the band's songs (or more to the point, Morrison's lyrics) be used in advertising and commercialism. Densmore took Krieger and Manzarek to court over the issue. His efforts where supported by Neil Young, Eddie Vedder, Tom Petty, Tom Waits, Bonnie Raitt and Randy Newman, and he was successful in maintaining Morrison's wishes.
His books about those events, The Doors Unhinged, is worth checking out:
Cool, I didn't know about that. Right on Densmore!
I met Densmore briefly at a book signing and he was super nice. It felt like meeting the Buddha or something. I'm exaggerating, lol, but seriously, he just has this good natured sweet soul about him. My wife and I both had that same sense. That was reaffirmed for me when I later read this other really fine book his wrote that came out in 2020:
Super happy to hear Densmore was a very cool guy. This book actually looks really interesting, did he interview everyone on the cover and more? Fascinating!
Yeah, it's really great. Yes, every one on the cover is in the book and more. And most of them are people he knows fairly well. Here's a list of the really cool people he talks about that will tantalize your interest :
-His mother, Margret Peggy Walsh
-A high school music teacher, Robert Armour
-A former prof, Fed Katz
-Elvin Jones
-Jim Morrison
-Emil Richards
-Lou Reed
-Janis Joplin
-Ray Manzarek
-Van Morrison
-Ravi Shankar
-Patti Smith
-Bob Marley
-Airto Moreira
-Jerry Lee Lewis
-Joseph Campbell
-Peggy Feury (an American actress/ acting teacher 1924-1985)
-Robert Bly
-Barbara Morrison (not related to Jim, she African American singer who passed away this March at age 72)
-The Dalai Lama
-Gustavo Dudamel
-Paul Simon
-Ram Dass
-Willie Nelson
Not a bad circle of friends!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
I totally agree. I think because I grew up liking a lot of bands with messages about standing up for what's right, I've always been clear to distance myself from an artist or band that publicly or verifiably did some seriously crappy stuff or promotes stuff I view as crappy.
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous )
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...
I don't know enough about Morrissey to know his political views although I do remember something about him having a strong hatred for Royalty.
Yeah, I agree about the whole "cancel culture" thing. Same with "politically correct" as a term that is too easy to jump on too quickly. Those are terms that are more about ego and shaming others. Both are also more about people yelling at each other without enough introspection. I was actually encouraged when someone I knew who considered herself to be "politically correct" later retracted that and admitted to some imperfections she admitted about herself that she wanted to correct. That seems a lot more constructive to me.
Steve Hoffman is a top notch recording engineer who has done a lot of excellent audiophile mastering and, from what I know of him, seems like a really nice guy. I learned about his website one day years back by doing a Google search for "what is the best sounding pressing of...(whatever album I was interested in at the time)", and came up with a thread on one of the music forums. The music related information that can be gleaned from that site can be excellent though I have found the forums have too often degraded to petty on-line bickering. But what's new, right, lol?
That goes into the whole other subject of the decline of civility which, unfortunately, I think is one of the drawbacks to the internet. The internet has provided much good in the way of making information vastly available, but it has also allowed, I think, I certain amount of "freedom" to be rude and obnoxious because of the ability to hide behind anonymity. That's one of the reasons I use my real name as my user name. That may not make me the best person in the world and it certainly doesn't necessarily make me "right" about everything, but it keeps me honest.
Here's Steve's website page. You can read the forums (by clicking on "forums") without joining and if you decide to join, although Steve does occasionally ask for donations to cover the expenses of running the site, there is no fee to join (and I don't know why the site address includes the term "tv" since he is all about music recording, not TV!):
Oh yeah, no question that the anonymity allowed by the internet has both freed cowardly & insecure & also plain old MEAN people to say & do things they'd NEVER EVER say or do in the real world, with people standing right in front of them. And it's created the worst kinds of "echo chambers" where you can only engage with people who think as you do. Which is understandable to want in some ways, but horrible for staying in touch with the real world we're all living in.
Thanks for the Hoffman links, I'll check him out.
Wow, what a perfect example of what we were talking about: Joseph Arthur, an artists I saw in tiny bars at teh very beginning of his career and was WOWED by, but who then alienated a HUGE chunk of his fanbase during Covid by coming out loud and proud as anti-covid vax, anti-mask, and "Covid is a scam" conspiracy theorist.
That same Joseph Arthur is now SUING the LA Times for writing an article about stuff he was saying totally publicly and over & over on his social media platforms. But somehow it's not his responsibility that HE told everyone for over a year all this stuff, it's one article (that he doesn't dispute the truth of) or rather one headline he blames for all his woes.
What's that I hear? Wow that must be a stadium full of violins playing sad sorrowful victim music... or not....
Over on the Steve Hoffman music sited, there have been some interesting discussion about where do listeners draw the line with recording artists who have been involved in shady, despicable, or illegal activities. Some have made strong arguments for separating the music from the persons personal behavior and to some degree I can see that as a valid argument. But over the years I have become less tolerant that way. There is plenty of great music made by decent people who also set a good example in a world desperately in need of public figures leading exemplary lives. I am more and more disinclined to wanting to support perverted, criminal, abusive, or artists, or even artists with overblown egos. Fame and widespread recognition do not necessarily lead a person down those paths, but when it does, I lose interest and definitely cease to support that artist or band.
I totally agree. I think because I grew up liking a lot of bands with messages about standing up for what's right, I've always been clear to distance myself from an artist or band that publicly or verifiably did some seriously crappy stuff or promotes stuff I view as crappy.
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous )
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...
I don't know enough about Morrissey to know his political views although I do remember something about him having a strong hatred for Royalty.
Yeah, I agree about the whole "cancel culture" thing. Same with "politically correct" as a term that is too easy to jump on too quickly. Those are terms that are more about ego and shaming others. Both are also more about people yelling at each other without enough introspection. I was actually encouraged when someone I knew who considered herself to be "politically correct" later retracted that and admitted to some imperfections she admitted about herself that she wanted to correct. That seems a lot more constructive to me.
Steve Hoffman is a top notch recording engineer who has done a lot of excellent audiophile mastering and, from what I know of him, seems like a really nice guy. I learned about his website one day years back by doing a Google search for "what is the best sounding pressing of...(whatever album I was interested in at the time)", and came up with a thread on one of the music forums. The music related information that can be gleaned from that site can be excellent though I have found the forums have too often degraded to petty on-line bickering. But what's new, right, lol?
That goes into the whole other subject of the decline of civility which, unfortunately, I think is one of the drawbacks to the internet. The internet has provided much good in the way of making information vastly available, but it has also allowed, I think, I certain amount of "freedom" to be rude and obnoxious because of the ability to hide behind anonymity. That's one of the reasons I use my real name as my user name. That may not make me the best person in the world and it certainly doesn't necessarily make me "right" about everything, but it keeps me honest.
Here's Steve's website page. You can read the forums (by clicking on "forums") without joining and if you decide to join, although Steve does occasionally ask for donations to cover the expenses of running the site, there is no fee to join (and I don't know why the site address includes the term "tv" since he is all about music recording, not TV!):
Oh yeah, no question that the anonymity allowed by the internet has both freed cowardly & insecure & also plain old MEAN people to say & do things they'd NEVER EVER say or do in the real world, with people standing right in front of them. And it's created the worst kinds of "echo chambers" where you can only engage with people who think as you do. Which is understandable to want in some ways, but horrible for staying in touch with the real world we're all living in.
Thanks for the Hoffman links, I'll check him out.
Wow, what a perfect example of what we were talking about: Joseph Arthur, an artists I saw in tiny bars at teh very beginning of his career and was WOWED by, but who then alienated a HUGE chunk of his fanbase during Covid by coming out loud and proud as anti-covid vax, anti-mask, and "Covid is a scam" conspiracy theorist.
That same Joseph Arthur is now SUING the LA Times for writing an article about stuff he was saying totally publicly and over & over on his social media platforms. But somehow it's not his responsibility that HE told everyone for over a year all this stuff, it's one article (that he doesn't dispute the truth of) or rather one headline he blames for all his woes.
What's that I hear? Wow that must be a stadium full of violins playing sad sorrowful victim music... or not....
GlowGirl I hope you tell people in your private life who that band was. They should be totally avoided if they still play.
I haven't told many people since nothing really happened since we left the situation - but at the time my young self wondered if it was my fault for being flirty or accepting drinks from them, etc. I was not overly traumatized by it though. The guy who was bothering me actually died of an overdose in the 90s, and the other guy is still playing, I believe. He must be in his 70s by now.
You should out them and not protect that type of crap.
Comments
On the namedropping, you're right, and I'm sorry, it is probably annoying to reference these and not name names. My rule is I only name names when what happened was really public or it's well known, so I apologize for those but when I know or was there because someone trusted me or I know it's really personal, I don't. Those examples were just so relevant to our conversation, but I wont do that again. Sorry, I get annoyed too when people do that!
That said, many times during lockdown I swore I'd do what people have told me to do for years and at least write up a few of my crazy experiences. My "Most Rock N Roll 24 Hours" ever experience is the best single story, and I'll name names in that one because it was INXS, I was young & more naive about a few things than I realized, but it all turned out great (nothing happened to me at least) and was such an adventure of a 24 hr period! It was a night that eventually included me, after the show, at the after party at a fancy upper west side restaurant, sitting at a table with 3 members of INXS (including Michael Hutchence), & also actress Kelly McGillis (Top Gun & other films), and Andy frickin' Warhol! At one point I felt a bump on the top of my head, it was a photographer's camera that bumped me, he apologized as he shot some pics, and the next Rolling Stone that came out I realized he was one of the Random Notes Photogs from that era because the pic of Hutchence, McGillis & Warhol that was published in the mag was taken from right over my head at the table. There's so much more to the story, and even though **I** did NOT do most of "the things", that night checked off so many "rock n roll cliches" that happened and I was present for or observed or experienced.
So that is one tale I still need to write up and I'll name names, because no one that would be named would care, they publicly tell their own far more crazy stories about their days then than anything I have to say.
It's the first album, so Morrison hadn't become the focal point publicly as yet, so probably the rest of the band was OK with it (they also named an album "Morrison Hotel" so my assumption is the other 3 new Jim was the meal ticket and rode along willingly)
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I love the Smiths, but when Morrisey first started canceling shows last minute or refusing to play, and THEN when he came out as let's just say "politically at odds with my views" (understatement of the century!), I am the first to say "I still think the Smiths were a great band. I no longer support or will pay a penny for anything Morrisey is involved in." There was an 80s music festival with him as the headliner, there were SO MANY good bands on one bill, one day fest... I'd have been sure to go otherwise. But protesting with my dollar and my presence are the only way someone like that pays attention, and from what I heard even as great as the lineup was, there were bands asked to play who didn't because of what he's come to stand for.
If someone wants to look past a band's bad behavior, or believes in the "separate the music from the musician" thing, that's their right for sure. That's just not me at all. But it always amuses me when bands or artists (or politicians or celebrities) are SHOCKED that their bad behavior or publicly-expressed views might lead to them losing fans or gigs. And they call it "cancel culture" which is so much bullshit, because when they disagree with another artist they're the first ones to call for boycotts or use social media to try to shame the people they disagree with.
2022... It's all happening! (to quote Almost Famous
Btw, I'm sure I should know this, but who is Steve Hoffman? I looked him up, is he the "master Engineer" who worked I guess on like Buddy Holly and John Coltrane albums? Or someone else? Sounds like a cool forum those discussions are happening on...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Thanks for the Hoffman links, I'll check him out.
My guess is red and yellow...shifty looking mf'ers.
I know since "Me Too" movement way more people understand how widespread sexual abuse is. But back in the 70s, 80s & I'd say 90s too to a degree, people dismissed how often people with positional power (Like musicians talking to their fans) would totally abuse it, and take advantage of both people's politeness, worries about seeming rude or ungrateful, and also their naive faith that someone famous (Like Bill Cosby or so many actors in Hollywood) wouldn't just straight out assault a woman or a girl.
I think one reason I was really lucky is after getting to know some bands as a youth, in college when I wanted to work on the concert committee, all the "pretty girls" we're assigned the catering & band dressing rooms, but I was very plain looking or not their idea of "pretty" which meant I was local tech crew (sound & lights). This made me a roadie when there were almost NO female roadies, and bands would always gave me shit at first, but by end of show always gave me props for working my ass off & doing a good job. They'd say I was welcome at any other shows & when I showed up I hung with the boys. Anyone tried anything (& many did), the guys who knew me would lay into them or support me if I told them to F off. So I was really lucky.
Even further into adulthood I went to see old friends play in another city and there was a new guy in the band, married, but relentless about trying to get women in bed, all women. They offered me a ride on their bus because they were returning to my town, and they TOOK TURNS sitting on either side of me to keep their own band member away from me. He wasn't in the band anymore for the next tour...
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Glad you're not traumatized, though it sounded like your friend was a bit? And the guy who demanded a BJ, well I think that's an actual something that happened, not a nothing even though you left the situation. He's still a complete shithead.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
That same Joseph Arthur is now SUING the LA Times for writing an article about stuff he was saying totally publicly and over & over on his social media platforms. But somehow it's not his responsibility that HE told everyone for over a year all this stuff, it's one article (that he doesn't dispute the truth of) or rather one headline he blames for all his woes.
What's that I hear? Wow that must be a stadium full of violins playing sad sorrowful victim music... or not....
https://variety.com/2022/music/news/joseph-arthur-sues-los-angeles-times-vax-article-defamation-shunned-1235340607/
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"