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Shorter sets....and why it's the best thing ever!

jonbond1779jonbond1779 London, UK Posts: 1,633
Here me out. I miss the days of the 3hr+ shows and it seems like the band are settling into a new live routine in terms of setlist length and type.  I think this is probably a good thing as they are looking forward and thinking longevity in terms of staying a band and touring.

When I first saw the sets coming out of the recent Euro tour I was kind of disappointed in the fact the sets were relatively shorter than in previous years but I managed to go to both London BST and the final Amsterdam shows - and upon reflection, I think these shorter sets are the best thing that PJ could have done...and here's why...

  • The Euro shows I saw were electric (my best experience being London Night 2). Did not feel shortchanged at all.
  • Setlists were becoming formulaic - with standard 'core' openers and encore closers etc. 
  • Band has the freedom/ more likely to open sets with totally 'new' songs that we've never (or rarely) see as openers - Eg Euro 22 -  Daughter, NAIS & Betterman.
  • Songs will become much rarer live.
  • Sets will be more eclectic & diverse.
  • Now PJ can, at times look to do those 2.5hr / 3hr shows at points on certain tours (maybe hoping on my part).

Also re Josh K (I was dubious at first) - great addition on tour adds a new dimension. (thats prob another thread)

What are your thoughts???
"Bring it back, to the clean form. To the pure form"

28/09/04 - Boston, 20/04/06 - London [\\mm//Astoria\\mm//] - 18/06/07 - Wembley Arena, 11/08/09 -  London [\\mm//Shepherds Bush Empire\\mm//],18/08/09 - 02 Arena, 25/06/10 - Hyde Park, 26/06/12 - Amsterdam, 27/06/12 - Amsterdam, 08/07/14 - Leeds,11/07/14 - Milton Keynes, 13/06/18 - Amsterdam, 18/06/18 - London 02 Arena, 17/07/18 - London 02 Arena, 08/08/22 - Hyde Park, 9/08/22 - Hyde Park - 25/08/22 - Amsterdam, 29/07/24 - London {*Tottenham Stadium TBC*}
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    Nobody will ever convince me that less music makes for a better concert. 
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,595
    Well people had fun at the Rage concerts and they play even less and the same set
    I miss igotid88
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    on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,626
    Here me out. I miss the days of the 3hr+ shows and it seems like the band are settling into a new live routine in terms of setlist length and type.  I think this is probably a good thing as they are looking forward and thinking longevity in terms of staying a band and touring.

    When I first saw the sets coming out of the recent Euro tour I was kind of disappointed in the fact the sets were relatively shorter than in previous years but I managed to go to both London BST and the final Amsterdam shows - and upon reflection, I think these shorter sets are the best thing that PJ could have done...and here's why...

    • The Euro shows I saw were electric (my best experience being London Night 2). Did not feel shortchanged at all.
    • Setlists were becoming formulaic - with standard 'core' openers and encore closers etc. 
    • Band has the freedom/ more likely to open sets with totally 'new' songs that we've never (or rarely) see as openers - Eg Euro 22 -  Daughter, NAIS & Betterman.
    • Songs will become much rarer live.
    • Sets will be more eclectic & diverse.
    • Now PJ can, at times look to do those 2.5hr / 3hr shows at points on certain tours (maybe hoping on my part).

    Also re Josh K (I was dubious at first) - great addition on tour adds a new dimension. (thats prob another thread)

    What are your thoughts???
    I mostly agree.  I’d be really happy if they threw in 3 or 4 more songs.  
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore


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    jimjam1982jimjam1982 AZ Posts: 1,334
    The only way this is true is if porch and even flow go back to 5 to 6 minutes to add extra songs. I'm not into the super extended solos unless it's a 3 hour show. Speed up the tempos, trim down the chit chat, reduce excessive solos. Get back to 28 songs in 2 hours 15m. 

    Otherwise, no. I prefer the stadium shows where it's like 7 per year and you are forced to travel.
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    It would be fine, if they didn't play any of the same songs 2 shows in a row.  Then you'd have some guaranteed variety to make up for shorter shows.
    I've seen quite a few Pearl Jam shows.
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    If short sets are the new normal then reintroduce support acts (not just Josh) 
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    The only way this is true is if porch and even flow go back to 5 to 6 minutes to add extra songs. I'm not into the super extended solos unless it's a 3 hour show. Speed up the tempos, trim down the chit chat, reduce excessive solos. Get back to 28 songs in 2 hours 15m. 

    Otherwise, no. I prefer the stadium shows where it's like 7 per year and you are forced to travel.
    Porch going 8-9 minutes is a massive snooze IMHO
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    OP, you are spot on. In the past year I was at the first PJ Ohana show, and just experienced Quebec City this week. I believe anyone who is watching setlists and not actually been to these new shows, should have their comments taken with a grain of salt. They have no idea what they are talking about. 

    This is a new PJ, and it's the best band they have been since the era I experienced the epic Bonnaroo and Spectrum shows. Fans saying they should pick up the tempo to add songs...No. That was a big problem with their sets in the years leading up to the pandemic. Speeding up, and killing grooves, just to appease setlist box-checkers. Destroying Eds voice in the process and having MC cramping during the encores. Hitting the drums like an old man because hes been forced to drum 35 songs in 3 hours at 60 years old. It's like the people who watch Netflix at 1.5x speed so they can jam as much content into their heads as humanly possible, instead of respecting the artists intent when it comes to pacing.

    Pearl Jam were great at Ohana. MC totally surprised me that night because he clearly re-learned every song in the catalogue during the pandemic. If you remember, he had like 2 or 3 weeks to learn these songs in 99, and never enough time off since to fix it. He saved songs like Evenflow by bringing them back to their original groove. Piss break no-more, my friends, that shit rocked and again in QC. Nobody left. 

    Embrace this new band, Jammers, because they sound fucking amazing. Maybe, just maybe, better than they ever have. Ed has slowed down, in an amazing way, and connects with every pair of eyes in the pit. So please, try to ease up on criticizing the # of songs. It is a very positive change, and you have to be there to experience it. 
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    on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,626
    The other issue here besides the shorter setlist is that even though it’s 2 years later, this is still the Gigaton tour.  So a good chunk of the shorter setlist is devoted to playing the new album.  If we were between album tours, there might be more variety and the shorter set lists would be less jarring. 
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore


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    2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,203
    Great mix, band in fine form given how long they have been at it. Looking forward to St.Louis and to listening to the rest of the tour bootlegs! 
    www.cluthelee.com
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    tschavtschav Posts: 2,810
    edited September 2022
    I’m good if they approach their tours going forward where:
    - Less dates (ballpark shows) = Long shows padded with covers and stories
    - More dates (arena shows) = Mixing in rarities, minimal covers, unique arrangements (like Quebec acoustic set), and a good chance two dates back to back have little overlap

    Let’s face it, most of us that can afford it are going to shows regardless. But these fall dates are proving to bring a little something different and hope they keep that as a staple for the rest of their 2022 dates. 
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    bazfromoz said:
    If short sets are the new normal then reintroduce support acts (not just Josh) 
    No way… no openers at all please. No matter how short the setlist gets
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
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    dannydanny Posts: 2,275
    shorter setlists i get it but i dont think they need 5/6 songs of ten and a couple of covers in a 23 song setlist
    danny d
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    danny said:
    shorter setlists i get it but i dont think they need 5/6 songs of ten and a couple of covers in a 23 song setlist
    5 songs from a top 5 most popular album in Rock history is pretty much a necessity. Even if they played 17 songs like RATM. 
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    MUZIKMUZIK Posts: 627
    Please don’t compare RAGE to Pearl Jam when it comes to setlist.

    Once again I think most of us are okay with shorter setlist BUT it least mix it up.

    Hearing 10 repeats from the night before is boring AF.
    09.11.98, 08.24.00, 08.25.00, 04.30.03, 07.08.03, 07.08.03, 09.15.05, 09.16.05, 09.19.05, 09.30.05, 10.01.05, 05.12.06, 05.13.06, 05.25.06, 05.27.06, 05.28.06, 06.01.06, 06.03.06, 06.19.08, 06.20.08, 06.22.08, 06.24.08, 06.25.08, 06.27.08, 06.28.08, 06.30.08, 07.01.08, 08.05.08, 08.07.08, 10.27.09, 10.30.09, 10.31.09, 05.18.10, 05.20.10, 05.21.10, 10.15.13, 10.18.13, 10,19,13, 9.23.15, 9.26.15, 04.28.16, 04.29.16, 05.01.16, 05.02.16, 05.06.22, 05.07.22, 09.14.22
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    ComeToTXComeToTX Austin Posts: 7,662
    Rage hasn’t put out new music in 20 years. It’s not a good comparison. 
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
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    Nobody will ever convince me that less music makes for a better concert. 
    A big fan of 8-minute versions of Daughter and Wishlist are you?
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    Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 12,551
    bazfromoz said:
    The only way this is true is if porch and even flow go back to 5 to 6 minutes to add extra songs. I'm not into the super extended solos unless it's a 3 hour show. Speed up the tempos, trim down the chit chat, reduce excessive solos. Get back to 28 songs in 2 hours 15m. 

    Otherwise, no. I prefer the stadium shows where it's like 7 per year and you are forced to travel.
    Porch going 8-9 minutes is a massive snooze IMHO

    100% agree. All the Ten songs except release should be played less IMHO.  There are so many other songs I would like to hear.
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    devonfzdevonfz Posts: 159
    I disagree they are literally playing the same songs every night except for a couple varieties in the opening and maybe one during the set the setlist in Ottawa was so similar to just about every other show I've seen this tour there are literally dozens of great songs they could be playing instead of porch alive do the evolution given to fly don't get me wrong these are great songs but they are literally playing them every single night and basically no songs from The Last Five albums every night except gigaton I don't mind the shorter sets the band is on fire and sounds amazing which I think we all agree on it just would be nice if they would play two songs from every album that would equal 22 and maybe do a couple of others and that would be a great show in my opinion
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    SHZASHZA St. Louis, MO USA Posts: 3,568
    edited September 2022
    I don't mind 2:15-2:30. 3 hours+ starts to test the limits of many fans' attention span / stamina 
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    bazfromoz said:
    If short sets are the new normal then reintroduce support acts (not just Josh) 
    No way… no openers at all please. No matter how short the setlist gets
    I second no openers.
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    bmurray06bmurray06 Austin, Texas Posts: 144
    I'm in total agreement with the OP. Obviously I don't have the exact number but I'm sure the vast majority of folks complaining about the setlists lately haven't been to these shows. All the reviews I've read on the shows have been glowing. Yeah, there are some staples that are always going to be played. ie Even Flow, Porch, DTE, etc. There are still a bunch of fans going to these shows that don't post on this board and don't have any album past Vitalogy. Compared to PJ peers, even 2-2.5 hours is pretty amazing. RHCP and Metallica play the same setlist pretty much every night and won't even change the order. 
    One possible reason with them keeping it shorter and the shows more spaced out day to day is the health and wellbeing of the members, not only Eddie. The friendship between Matt Cameron and Taylor Hawkins is well documented. With the untimely passing of Hawkins and his heart to heart conversations with Cameron about the touring schedule having potentially a negative effect had to have made a decision in PJ's touring process. Speaking for myself, I'm grateful there still touring and still creating music. It's a rare thing to have a rock band with this longevity and creativeness.
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    I don’t think I’ll mind a shorter set at Camden. But one setlist-related thing that I hate is the amount of slow-tempo songs at the top. I trace the start of this awful trend back to about 2013. They haven’t done it at every single show since then. But they sure do it a lot compared to pre-2013. 

    Here’s the start of the set in Quebec a few days ago for example…..

    01. Daughter
    02. Footsteps
    03. Buckle Up
    04. Other Side
    05. Off He Goes

    For me personally, this is the absolute worst way a PJ concert can begin. And it’s nothing against these particular songs or songs with similar tempos (Sometimes, Release, Long Road, fucking Low Light). It’s just too many to start the show with. The day of the show comes, you’re all excited, anticipation builds through the day, the band comes out….and plays a couple lullabies that sucks the excitement out of the room. I’d prefer a little more “Pearl JAM” at the top of the shows, and a little less “Pearl Adult Contemporary.”
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
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    bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,696
    edited September 2022
    Completely agree that the one slow opener is amazing, but 2-3 just drains the energy.

    I would love the 3 hour show to come back.  I think I would leave at 2.5 hours and skip the predictable last encore. Perfect for me!    Unfortunately, now the predictable last encore starts with Porch in the 17 slot about 1.5 hours in.  

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    Abe FromanAbe Froman Posts: 5,191
    It is definitely not the best thing ever. It is a drastic change in format from what fans are accustomed too. Six to ten less songs per show and less variety in sets is a very different experience. Don’t get me wrong I am still super excited about seeing two shows coming up and still think pj is the best live band in the world. But I am trying to lower my expectations of what I have seen the past 20 years. 
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    Completely agree that the one slow opener is amazing, but 2-3 just drains the energy.
    Yeah opening with something like Release or Sometimes and then going into something like Animal or Why Go is great. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
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    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,320
    RHCP played Citizens Bank Park in Philly last night and did only 20 songs.  Would love 30 for PJ again but 23 isn’t bad 
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    Remember, they have 9 shows left on this leg not counting Apollo.  And they've only played 2 so far.  We must be thankful for whatever scraps they are willing to leave for us at this point.
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    Nobody will ever convince me that less music makes for a better concert. 
    🤣🤣🤣🤣
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    OceansJennyOceansJenny Manhattan, NY Posts: 3,222
    igotid88 said:
    Well people had fun at the Rage concerts and they play even less and the same set
    Those Rage shows were 🤯. It’s all about level of energy, not length of set.
    DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
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