"i told you the cabinet was sexy" - the 18watt build thread

2

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  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    That IS a sexy piece of equipment.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    damn that looks great. way to go Greg.

    Next logical step...experimentation :D

    and a 4x12 wired exotically.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    i hope it works. i'm nervous.

    i'm going to voice it for lower gain on the TMB channel than the "stock" amp is. i guess lots of people seem to have issues with oscillation etc. because of the amount of gain. we'll see. i'm a low gain guy anyway.

    i turned it on to check that the filament voltage was getting to each tube socket and nothing blew up so i'm encouraged.

    but, as i've learned and was pointed out to me, my neat wiring may cause me grief. i may also need to take the ground connections off the backs of the pots. we'll see how much hum i get. the neatness of old hiwatts was my inspiration.

    compare this to my 5E3 rat's nest. which works great and really only hisses due to all the carbon comp resistors in my opinion.
    http://www3.telus.net/exhausted/5E3/100_2546.JPG
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    if it turns on and works great it matters not the wiring inside the chassis, really the only reason that matters is you get an idea of how meticulous the builder is.

    Those amps sound better as low gain amps anyway (see bassman) and unless the amp is cascaded high gain amps generally sound like shite.

    I like your idea. It'll sound great when you crank it.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    Really nice, love the color. Have a question. How long did you run it during your initial set up test for the tubes?
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    i haven't put tubes in yet. i only turned it on to make sure the filament wiring is correct. i haven't done anything else yet. still waiting for tubes.
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    the guys on the weber forums have been really helpful so i'm doing some adjustments to my grounding on their suggestions.

    revised the grounding.
    http://www3.telus.net/exhausted/18watt/chassis_11.JPG

    the filaments to the rectifier that i forgot. it's not on the layout since they assume you're using the weber copper cap instead of a rectifier tube but i'm using a tube.
    http://www3.telus.net/exhausted/18watt/chassis_12.JPG
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    the tubes arrived!!!!!!!

    i had huge self-oscillation issues with the TMB channel due to my wire routing. the guys on the weber forum predicted it.

    http://www3.telus.net/exhausted/18watt/redressed.JPG

    redressing everything solved that problem.

    now the only issues i have is a crackly volume pot on the TMB channel and a really subtle bass control that may be inherent to the design.

    amp sounds super sweet though. i'm running it fairly tame gainwise and it's really nice. still lots of gain on tap on the TMB channel and lots of good headroom on the normal channel.

    very quiet humwise. no complaints there at all.

    maybe a little bassy overall but we'll see as i get used to it.
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    it's done.

    i replaced the volume pot to fix that issue.
    i found a missed solder joint which fixed the bass control issue.

    i'm now just tweaking EQ and gain to taste but the amp is done and cooking.

    here's a photo gallery with some more detailed notes one each stage, including important information about mistakes i'd made.

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=38165&l=4a2f2&id=668580992
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    well done greg! Congrats.

    Insert Treble Boost!!!!
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    yep, finally an amp that i can understand using a treble boost on.
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    exhausted wrote:
    yep, finally an amp that i can understand using a treble boost on.


    you could try a Barb EQ too :D But man I bet your casino plus TB would be a ripping solo on that thing. Now you can teach your kids all those Black Sabbath Iommi riffs
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    yeah, on the normal channel, some more EQ may be nice but we'll see. the TMB channel is golden though. nice and loud and lively.


    i really did dial down the gain though with the components and used a 12AT7 in the preamp. sort of into the classic rock range now though i'm sure it'll do the scooped metal tones to an extent as well with different voicing. if i want more gain i can just put a 12AX7 in.

    i'll also have to check the bias at some point as i don't know how hot the thing is running though it is set up for low B+ voltage right now so i assume pretty cold.

    i'm going to do some full volume clips this afternoon as the family's going out and it's my last chance before my vacation ends.
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    you could also try 5751's they work well too.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    well, i spent a good 4 hours with it this afternoon. i made a couple more tweaks to bring the bass response of the TMB channel into line with that of the normal channel. now it's nice and thick but not overpowering. i also changed the value of the bass pot to get a more usable range.

    i did some clips but they're not very good due to my playing and mic'ing. may post them anyway.

    both channels come alive with their volumes around 6 or 7.

    the normal channel: with single coils, it's nice, punchy and clear. you get a good bluesy response when you dig in. it's meatier and smoother than a vox and more satisfying that anything else i've played that had EL84s. with humbuckers, it doesn't shine quite as much but you do get a nice crunch out of it. turn it up to 8 to get more of the classic marshall thing out of it. i found i liked the tone around 7 or 8. retains the bass but adds nice high end chime. perfectly acceptable headroom for clean tones with single coils.

    the TMB channel: again, i set this thing up near the low end of the gain scale and changed a lot of the values away from the "standard" marshall tone stack to reduce the bass response while retaining the mids and highs. i found, with all my changes, i ran the bass on 3-4, mids at 8-9, treble at 5-6. the TMB at a volume of 4 is about the same as the normal channel on 8. thick blues with single coils and lots of drive with humbuckers. keep turning it up and it starts to lose some charm with singles but really gets a classic distortion with the humbuckers. you're pretty much limited to the bridge pickup at this point or it loses too much focus.

    i had problems trying to get a good sound out of my casino though. that guitar just has too much bass output. the bridge pickup was fine but i couldn't get a smooth tone out of the neck. just too boomy and not enough headroom. so we'll leave that to the deluxe reverb.

    every amp has it's sweet spots.

    it took pedals quite well too. my bluesbreaker clone, which is a bright pedal, sounded spectacular. all you'd really need with this amp is a boost or light overdrive and a good fuzz. the rest is all playing dynamics.

    now i'm just doing some work to clean up cabinet rattles and it's good to go. there are some vibrations etc. that i won't be able to get rid of, such is the reality of a combo but it's nothing that gets picked up by mics or that would be heard in a band situation.
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    les paul on the bridge pickup (rolled back to about 8)

    normal channel on 3 then 5 then 7. tone on 8. high input.


    through my minimass on 9 (anything higher overdrives my mic preamps). i don't have anything suitable to micing high volumes.

    this just shows you the gain range really.

    i think the TMB channel is still too boomy. the normal channel at volume 7, is nice and tight basswise.

    http://www3.telus.net/exhausted/18watt/sounds/LP%20-%20Normal%20Channel.mp3

    i'm still trying to do single coil samples


    edit: removed the TMB clip. i've made more changes so it's not accurate anymore. still getting rid of the boominess.
  • ianvomsaal
    ianvomsaal Suncoast, FL Posts: 1,224
    exhausted wrote:
    through my minimass on 9 (anything higher overdrives my mic preamps). i don't have anything suitable to micing high volumes.
    Try an SM57, they're cheap, and many sound engineers still swear by them for micing guitar cabs.
    I believe the frequency response on those are 40 -15,000 Hz. with an SPL rating of 94dB.
    It also has a nice compression effect on loud sounds (it squashes fairly nicely), facilitating the
    engineer's job of maintaining consistent recording levels (it works well and is fairly consistent).
    I've also been using a Sennheiser e609 with quite similar results (fr 40Hz -18kHz, SPL 150-159db)

    - Ian
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  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    keep in mind the silver bell isn't broken in yet Ex.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Novawind
    Novawind Posts: 836
    ianvomsaal wrote:
    Try an SM57, they're cheap, and many sound engineers still swear by them for micing guitar cabs.
    I believe the frequency response on those are 40 -15,000 Hz. with an SPL rating of 94dB.
    It also has a nice compression effect on loud sounds (it squashes fairly nicely), facilitating the
    engineer's job of maintaining consistent recording levels (it works well and is fairly consistent).
    I've also been using a Sennheiser e609 with quite similar results (fr 40Hz -18kHz, SPL 150-159db)

    - Ian

    How would you compare the SM57 with say an MXL 990 condenser mic (or similar)? I know next to nothing about recording, but I would like to start doing my own home recordings. I'm guessing I need a decent mic into a mixer, and depending on the mixer I can recording it there or send it to my computer. No clue about what brands/types are good though. I'd like to spend ideally as little as possible, but still with a little quality in the recordings. Thanks!

    Also, ex great job on the amp. Do you have a final picture with the board and electronics installed? I'm really surprised that those recordings went through your minimass, I've heard some people indicate that any attenuator will lead to a tone suck, but I didn't even realize it till I went back and re-read your post. Sounds great.
    If idle hands are the devil's workshop, he must not be very productive.

    7/9/06 LA 1
    7/10/06 LA 2
    10/21/06 Bridge 1
  • exhausted
    exhausted Posts: 6,638
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=888287&l=d834d&id=668580992

    that's the final shot of the board though i'm still changing component values here and there.

    http://www3.telus.net/exhausted/18watt/sounds/LP%20-%20TMB%20Channel%20-%204Feb2008.mp3

    a new TMB channel clip. i changed one value i had modded back to stock to reduce the amount of bass going into the second stage of gain. the bass is still turned down to 2 on this clip. this is the high input with the les paul again. 3, 5, 7, 9 volume. at 9 it's starting to go mushy. 7 is the sweet spot. anywhere from 5 to 7 is good though.

    compared to the last iteration:
    http://www3.telus.net/exhausted/18watt/sounds/LP%20-%20TMB%20Channel.mp3

    it's a lot closer to where i want it now. i still need to change one more capacitor at the output of the tonestack to trim some more bass out.

    and the minimass does suck some high end off. i think the new ones are a bit better though. i've upped the treble on the amp slightly to compensate.

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