Capitalism, The Fed and Economic Policy
Comments
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I get many of the reasons to make the debt go away, but I don't think it is right to just waive a magic wand and absolve everyone. I had about $35K in student load debt, made a lot of sacrifices in my 20s, didn't go on a vacation until I was nearly 30, lived within my means in order to pay it off. In about 8 years, Ill have kids in college, and I don't expect them to get 'free' college. Even at the age of 44, I haven't been across the ocean yet, mainly because post-college I had to pay the bills.
Higher education and the finance of it needs a lot of reform. They need to teach personal finance in high school as well.
As far as the existing debt, it seems like a stalemate. Can't keep people drowning in it either. I always thought maybe the government can absolve the debt, but get something in value for those who want to have their debt removed. Community service? Military service?0 -
Is Jeff Bozos disadvantaged? It’s not just about “poor choices.”
From the linked article below:Average Student Loan Debt in the United States
- $1.75 trillion in total student loan debt (including federal and private loans)
- $28,950 owed per borrower on average
- About 92% of all student debt are federal student loans; the remaining amount is private student loans
- 55% of students from public four-year institutions had student loans
- 57% of students from private nonprofit four-year institutions took on education debt
Average Student Loan Debt by State
The national average balance of federal student loan borrowers is $35,210. The five states and territories with the highest balance are as follows:
1. Washington, D.C. $54,708.52
2. Maryland. $42,350.91
3. Georgia. $40,268.87
4. Virginia. $38,251.37
5. Florida. $37,709.72
Average Student Loan Debt by Age
Student loan debt is usually associated with young adults, with those 24 and younger having the lowest average balances. Average balances also increase by age group, with those 62 and older having the highest balance.
Average Student Loan Debt by Race and Gender
Although most college students take out student loans, women and people of color are more likely to have student loan debt—and higher balances—than their white male counterparts.
Average Student Loan Debt for Men and Women
- 47% of women hold student loan debt
- 40% of men hold student loan debt
Source: Federal Reserve of St. Louis
Average Student Loan Debt by Race
- 50% of Black adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $9,800
- 44% of white adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $8,700
- 37% of Hispanic/Latino adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $7,000
Source: Federal Reserve of St. Louis
Federal Student Loan Portfolio
Federal student loans make up the vast majority of American education debt—about 92% of all outstanding student loans is federal debt. The federal student loan portfolio currently totals more than $1.6 trillion, owed by about 43 million borrowers. Here’s how that debt breaks down by loan type.
Federal Student Loans by Age
Unsurprisingly, younger people hold the majority of student loan debt. Borrowers between the ages of 25 and 34 carry about $500 billion in federal student loans—the majority of people in this age group owe between $10,000 and $40,000.
However, people carry their education debt well into middle-age and beyond. Borrowers ages 35 to 49 owe more than $620 billion in student loans. This cohort has the highest number of borrowers who owe more than $100,000 in loans.
Even retirees feel the pressure from student loans; there are 2.4 million borrowers aged 62 or older that owe $98 billion in student loans.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-debt-statistics/
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Interesting stats but I don't understand what your point is, particularly with Bezos.Halifax2TheMax said:Is Jeff Bozos disadvantaged? It’s not just about “poor choices.”
From the linked article below:Average Student Loan Debt in the United States
- $1.75 trillion in total student loan debt (including federal and private loans)
- $28,950 owed per borrower on average
- About 92% of all student debt are federal student loans; the remaining amount is private student loans
- 55% of students from public four-year institutions had student loans
- 57% of students from private nonprofit four-year institutions took on education debt
Average Student Loan Debt by State
The national average balance of federal student loan borrowers is $35,210. The five states and territories with the highest balance are as follows:
1. Washington, D.C. $54,708.52
2. Maryland. $42,350.91
3. Georgia. $40,268.87
4. Virginia. $38,251.37
5. Florida. $37,709.72
Average Student Loan Debt by Age
Student loan debt is usually associated with young adults, with those 24 and younger having the lowest average balances. Average balances also increase by age group, with those 62 and older having the highest balance.
Average Student Loan Debt by Race and Gender
Although most college students take out student loans, women and people of color are more likely to have student loan debt—and higher balances—than their white male counterparts.
Average Student Loan Debt for Men and Women
- 47% of women hold student loan debt
- 40% of men hold student loan debt
Source: Federal Reserve of St. Louis
Average Student Loan Debt by Race
- 50% of Black adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $9,800
- 44% of white adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $8,700
- 37% of Hispanic/Latino adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $7,000
Source: Federal Reserve of St. Louis
Federal Student Loan Portfolio
Federal student loans make up the vast majority of American education debt—about 92% of all outstanding student loans is federal debt. The federal student loan portfolio currently totals more than $1.6 trillion, owed by about 43 million borrowers. Here’s how that debt breaks down by loan type.
Federal Student Loans by Age
Unsurprisingly, younger people hold the majority of student loan debt. Borrowers between the ages of 25 and 34 carry about $500 billion in federal student loans—the majority of people in this age group owe between $10,000 and $40,000.
However, people carry their education debt well into middle-age and beyond. Borrowers ages 35 to 49 owe more than $620 billion in student loans. This cohort has the highest number of borrowers who owe more than $100,000 in loans.
Even retirees feel the pressure from student loans; there are 2.4 million borrowers aged 62 or older that owe $98 billion in student loans.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-debt-statistics/
And to be clear, I'm not saying that having student debt is about poor choices. I'm saying that crushing debt can often lead back to poor choices. How many people went to private schools? How many went to out of state public? How many chose any of those rather than doing two years of JUCO before transferring to public? What about graduate school? I didn't go until I landed at a company that paid for grad school for anything other than something that was extremely specific, like medical school. History grad? Paid. Law school? Paid. This is not uncommon today. I also had a good job when I was in college (restaurant management) and took a 10k pay cut to get an entry level job at a bank call center. I did it because they paid for college. People can be smarter, but their parents need to be smart too, and that's the core issue.
My son wants to go to law school or get an MBA. I told him he would be a fool to do either of those and pay for it himself. He needs to get a job at a place that will pay for your post graduate with a commitment of somewhere between 2 and 5 years. It's been common for 15 years now.0 -
I think that would be a fantastic tradeoff. Biden should have done that. I also think that two years of JUCO should be paid by the gov't going forward.MayDay10 said:I get many of the reasons to make the debt go away, but I don't think it is right to just waive a magic wand and absolve everyone. I had about $35K in student load debt, made a lot of sacrifices in my 20s, didn't go on a vacation until I was nearly 30, lived within my means in order to pay it off. In about 8 years, Ill have kids in college, and I don't expect them to get 'free' college. Even at the age of 44, I haven't been across the ocean yet, mainly because post-college I had to pay the bills.
Higher education and the finance of it needs a lot of reform. They need to teach personal finance in high school as well.
As far as the existing debt, it seems like a stalemate. Can't keep people drowning in it either. I always thought maybe the government can absolve the debt, but get something in value for those who want to have their debt removed. Community service? Military service?0 -
I believe you are/were an advocate of Bozos and government subsidies for expanding Amazon headquarters, yes? Why is one American worthy or more worthy than tens of thousands of other Americans? Particularly if you consider disposable income and its effect on the economy? Aren’t student loan borrowers contributing to the economy by spending/consuming disposable income? I get the job creation of Bozos but he’s got billions to fund his own or Amazon’s capital investment(s), right? Student loan borrowers, not so much. I’m not sure how many student loan borrowers borrow money for college because, hey, why not? Do you think kids take out loans but are able to pay for college without them?mrussel1 said:
Interesting stats but I don't understand what your point is, particularly with Bezos.Halifax2TheMax said:Is Jeff Bozos disadvantaged? It’s not just about “poor choices.”
From the linked article below:Average Student Loan Debt in the United States
- $1.75 trillion in total student loan debt (including federal and private loans)
- $28,950 owed per borrower on average
- About 92% of all student debt are federal student loans; the remaining amount is private student loans
- 55% of students from public four-year institutions had student loans
- 57% of students from private nonprofit four-year institutions took on education debt
Average Student Loan Debt by State
The national average balance of federal student loan borrowers is $35,210. The five states and territories with the highest balance are as follows:
1. Washington, D.C. $54,708.52
2. Maryland. $42,350.91
3. Georgia. $40,268.87
4. Virginia. $38,251.37
5. Florida. $37,709.72
Average Student Loan Debt by Age
Student loan debt is usually associated with young adults, with those 24 and younger having the lowest average balances. Average balances also increase by age group, with those 62 and older having the highest balance.
Average Student Loan Debt by Race and Gender
Although most college students take out student loans, women and people of color are more likely to have student loan debt—and higher balances—than their white male counterparts.
Average Student Loan Debt for Men and Women
- 47% of women hold student loan debt
- 40% of men hold student loan debt
Source: Federal Reserve of St. Louis
Average Student Loan Debt by Race
- 50% of Black adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $9,800
- 44% of white adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $8,700
- 37% of Hispanic/Latino adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $7,000
Source: Federal Reserve of St. Louis
Federal Student Loan Portfolio
Federal student loans make up the vast majority of American education debt—about 92% of all outstanding student loans is federal debt. The federal student loan portfolio currently totals more than $1.6 trillion, owed by about 43 million borrowers. Here’s how that debt breaks down by loan type.
Federal Student Loans by Age
Unsurprisingly, younger people hold the majority of student loan debt. Borrowers between the ages of 25 and 34 carry about $500 billion in federal student loans—the majority of people in this age group owe between $10,000 and $40,000.
However, people carry their education debt well into middle-age and beyond. Borrowers ages 35 to 49 owe more than $620 billion in student loans. This cohort has the highest number of borrowers who owe more than $100,000 in loans.
Even retirees feel the pressure from student loans; there are 2.4 million borrowers aged 62 or older that owe $98 billion in student loans.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-debt-statistics/
And to be clear, I'm not saying that having student debt is about poor choices. I'm saying that crushing debt can often lead back to poor choices. How many people went to private schools? How many went to out of state public? How many chose any of those rather than doing two years of JUCO before transferring to public? What about graduate school? I didn't go until I landed at a company that paid for grad school for anything other than something that was extremely specific, like medical school. History grad? Paid. Law school? Paid. This is not uncommon today. I also had a good job when I was in college (restaurant management) and took a 10k pay cut to get an entry level job at a bank call center. I did it because they paid for college. People can be smarter, but their parents need to be smart too, and that's the core issue.
My son wants to go to law school or get an MBA. I told him he would be a fool to do either of those and pay for it himself. He needs to get a job at a place that will pay for your post graduate with a commitment of somewhere between 2 and 5 years. It's been common for 15 years now.
The demographics of the student loan borrowers indicates to me that many borrowers are coming from limited means, whether single parent or one income earning parent households, renters, thus unable to tap equity wealth and also having to pay more for the full boat of tuition, housing, etc. Easy to say live at home, which is fine, but tuition and fees are still a struggle. There were kids embarrassed to take college classes via zoom during Covid because they were essentially homeless and zoomed in from their car or a shelter. Not everyone starts from an equal playing field. Read the article I linked. Why has the default rate among private loan borrowers steadily gone down overtime? More resources perhaps? Higher paying jobs upon graduation, maybe?
Are you in favour of states making JUCO free with auto acceptance to a 4 year state school upon a minimum GPA?
I see some of the repub opposition to this as a result of who it helps, women, shouldn’t be in the workplace to begin with, and the “other,” who will also take jobs from white males. Repubs cut taxes for corporations from 35% to 24% and for millionaires and billionaires, who pay effectively 5% to 7% and represent the top 1%. Basically subsidizing their lifestyle but god forbid we help out that bottom 20% to 80%. You know, trickle down.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I personally think EVERYONE should have to enlist in the military at 18.MayDay10 said:I get many of the reasons to make the debt go away, but I don't think it is right to just waive a magic wand and absolve everyone. I had about $35K in student load debt, made a lot of sacrifices in my 20s, didn't go on a vacation until I was nearly 30, lived within my means in order to pay it off. In about 8 years, Ill have kids in college, and I don't expect them to get 'free' college. Even at the age of 44, I haven't been across the ocean yet, mainly because post-college I had to pay the bills.
Higher education and the finance of it needs a lot of reform. They need to teach personal finance in high school as well.
As far as the existing debt, it seems like a stalemate. Can't keep people drowning in it either. I always thought maybe the government can absolve the debt, but get something in value for those who want to have their debt removed. Community service? Military service?
In turn you'd get college and medical for your troubles.
They do it now so why not have everyone do it. You can have 2 year signups and 4 year signups.
This is coming from someone whom didn't enlist and sees the overall benefits of it now though.0 -
Everyone should have to join the army? What? Hell no! lolwww.myspace.com0
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I agree these were piss poor choices. I say that to my GF all the time. Unfortunately if there isn't anyone to help guide you, it doesn't mean shit.mrussel1 said:
dont' get frustrated. That's why we debate. What do you mean I'm not going to get it? It's not like it's a complicated argument. It's about perspective. Do Americans have a right to a home? Does a person that's gainfully employed deserve a significant debt reduction and a poor person in Baltimore doesn't? That's the question for me. Why do the bad choices by college grads deserve a break when bad choices (or disadvantage) don't?tempo_n_groove said:
Most of these people can't afford homes. Why? Because of the ton of student debt...mrussel1 said:
I guess it depends on your definition of everyday workers. I think of non college grads as an everyday worker, not necessarily white collar professionals. But that distinction doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of the discussion. I'm not saying they aren't drowning in debt. I'm sure they are. But that was driven by bad decisions and they are still the most likely to be gainfully employed. I would much prefer equity programs that help the disadvantaged. I don't consider someone employed, with a home, as disadvantaged.The Juggler said:
I don't know man. I just disagreed with your original point that they're not "everyday workers." Everyone of them I talk to owns a house and most are drowning in debt and do not make over 200k/year. I suspect I will be starting to include their student loans in their cashout refi applications in the near future when they have to start paying them back again.mrussel1 said:
But are these people poor, or are they just not advancing at the rate they expected, economically? In other words, is the problem that they can't buy a house, have kids? Or are they literally moving into section 8 housing like the real poor people in this country? My guess is the latter. But their perspective is different. Because they were educated enough to know to go to college and take loans (and needed full tuition, not reduced like a real disadvantaged person would receive), I'm guessing most came from middle to upper middle class families. So what they expect out of life is very different than what someone growing up in East Baltimore or Camden expects. I don't have data to back up these statements, but I do know that colleges have funds for the truly disadvantaged and are generous with them.The Juggler said:Not saying they made correct choices. I am just saying there are likely millions of regular people (not just mostly grad students making 200k plus) drowning in debt while their student loans have been in deferment. Toss in an extra few hundred dollars a month for those loan payments and they're going to be in even worse shape.
You're not going to get it so I'll move along.
The reason it was predatory was these long term loans were not explained very well.
Scenario.
So you are going to a 25k a year school for 4 years and with your degree you'll be able to make 25K a year when you get a job, and with our payment structure you will be able to pay it off with your salary in oh, 75 years at that salary.
Nobody was telling these kids that a cheaper college was ok or a community college was all the schooling they needed.
People have literally paid back what they owed over the years and had barely made a dent in the principal.
To me that's messed up. I do numbers for a living now but when I was younger shit like this I would have missed. My first brand new car was an example of that. Thankfully that was only for 5 years and not my whole lifetime.0 -
Lot to unpack here. I can't address it all, but if I miss something you really care about, bring it up:Halifax2TheMax said:
I believe you are/were an advocate of Bozos and government subsidies for expanding Amazon headquarters, yes? Why is one American worthy or more worthy than tens of thousands of other Americans? Particularly if you consider disposable income and its effect on the economy? Aren’t student loan borrowers contributing to the economy by spending/consuming disposable income? I get the job creation of Bozos but he’s got billions to fund his own or Amazon’s capital investment(s), right? Student loan borrowers, not so much. I’m not sure how many student loan borrowers borrow money for college because, hey, why not? Do you think kids take out loans but are able to pay for college without them?mrussel1 said:
Interesting stats but I don't understand what your point is, particularly with Bezos.Halifax2TheMax said:Is Jeff Bozos disadvantaged? It’s not just about “poor choices.”
From the linked article below:Average Student Loan Debt in the United States
- $1.75 trillion in total student loan debt (including federal and private loans)
- $28,950 owed per borrower on average
- About 92% of all student debt are federal student loans; the remaining amount is private student loans
- 55% of students from public four-year institutions had student loans
- 57% of students from private nonprofit four-year institutions took on education debt
Average Student Loan Debt by State
The national average balance of federal student loan borrowers is $35,210. The five states and territories with the highest balance are as follows:
1. Washington, D.C. $54,708.52
2. Maryland. $42,350.91
3. Georgia. $40,268.87
4. Virginia. $38,251.37
5. Florida. $37,709.72
Average Student Loan Debt by Age
Student loan debt is usually associated with young adults, with those 24 and younger having the lowest average balances. Average balances also increase by age group, with those 62 and older having the highest balance.
Average Student Loan Debt by Race and Gender
Although most college students take out student loans, women and people of color are more likely to have student loan debt—and higher balances—than their white male counterparts.
Average Student Loan Debt for Men and Women
- 47% of women hold student loan debt
- 40% of men hold student loan debt
Source: Federal Reserve of St. Louis
Average Student Loan Debt by Race
- 50% of Black adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $9,800
- 44% of white adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $8,700
- 37% of Hispanic/Latino adults have student loan debt, with an average balance of $7,000
Source: Federal Reserve of St. Louis
Federal Student Loan Portfolio
Federal student loans make up the vast majority of American education debt—about 92% of all outstanding student loans is federal debt. The federal student loan portfolio currently totals more than $1.6 trillion, owed by about 43 million borrowers. Here’s how that debt breaks down by loan type.
Federal Student Loans by Age
Unsurprisingly, younger people hold the majority of student loan debt. Borrowers between the ages of 25 and 34 carry about $500 billion in federal student loans—the majority of people in this age group owe between $10,000 and $40,000.
However, people carry their education debt well into middle-age and beyond. Borrowers ages 35 to 49 owe more than $620 billion in student loans. This cohort has the highest number of borrowers who owe more than $100,000 in loans.
Even retirees feel the pressure from student loans; there are 2.4 million borrowers aged 62 or older that owe $98 billion in student loans.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-student-loan-debt-statistics/
And to be clear, I'm not saying that having student debt is about poor choices. I'm saying that crushing debt can often lead back to poor choices. How many people went to private schools? How many went to out of state public? How many chose any of those rather than doing two years of JUCO before transferring to public? What about graduate school? I didn't go until I landed at a company that paid for grad school for anything other than something that was extremely specific, like medical school. History grad? Paid. Law school? Paid. This is not uncommon today. I also had a good job when I was in college (restaurant management) and took a 10k pay cut to get an entry level job at a bank call center. I did it because they paid for college. People can be smarter, but their parents need to be smart too, and that's the core issue.
My son wants to go to law school or get an MBA. I told him he would be a fool to do either of those and pay for it himself. He needs to get a job at a place that will pay for your post graduate with a commitment of somewhere between 2 and 5 years. It's been common for 15 years now.
The demographics of the student loan borrowers indicates to me that many borrowers are coming from limited means, whether single parent or one income earning parent households, renters, thus unable to tap equity wealth and also having to pay more for the full boat of tuition, housing, etc. Easy to say live at home, which is fine, but tuition and fees are still a struggle. There were kids embarrassed to take college classes via zoom during Covid because they were essentially homeless and zoomed in from their car or a shelter. Not everyone starts from an equal playing field. Read the article I linked. Why has the default rate among private loan borrowers steadily gone down overtime? More resources perhaps? Higher paying jobs upon graduation, maybe?
Are you in favour of states making JUCO free with auto acceptance to a 4 year state school upon a minimum GPA?
I see some of the repub opposition to this as a result of who it helps, women, shouldn’t be in the workplace to begin with, and the “other,” who will also take jobs from white males. Repubs cut taxes for corporations from 35% to 24% and for millionaires and billionaires, who pay effectively 5% to 7% and represent the top 1%. Basically subsidizing their lifestyle but god forbid we help out that bottom 20% to 80%. You know, trickle down.
1. Tax incentives are different than student loan waivers to me. The number of jobs and the corresponding economic activity generated by Amazon's HQ easily offsets the tax breaks they received. Yes waiving the student loan would theoretically generate some economic activity (who knows how much), but again my point is that this particular class of person is not the most deserving of some economic break. I'm not being cheap, but if we're willing to add 24 billion to the debt, spend that on early pre K, better funding for schools, JUCO.
2. Regarding your statement about limited means, I'd like to see some data about that. Teh data set is the average debt of a borrower and the corresponding income status of their parents. I have never seen that data. What I do know is that every parent MUST fill out a FAFSA every year, and that evaluates you for federal, state and university aid. So if you are eligible, you can get it immediately and easily. And I know that part of the reason (not the only) that tuition has increased is because so many students do receive discounted tuition. That cost gets passed on to those of us who don't qualify. But I would like to know the income level if you know where that is.
3. Bezos is rich but he owns 6% of Amazon and could not unilaterally decide to not get a tax break. They are a company with a .43 EPS. That's not impressive. As a shareholder, I would be annoyed if they passed on tax breaks considering how they have struggled financially.
4. Am I in favor of auto acceptance to a state U with acceptable GPA? YES, YES and Fuck yes. In fact, here in VA we have the greatest deal in the world. If you graduate from a two year, you are GUARANTEED admittance to any state university so long as you meet their minimum GPA. That means you do not have to compete. Example: You can get into UVA with a 3.4. Same with William and Mary. That is insane. In fact, my son did not get into UVA because it is so competitive. I encouraged him to go to JUCO and xfer rather than go to James Madison. He decided on JMU. I think that was a sub-optimal choice, but I can see why he didn't want to stay home for two years.0 -
I'm not sure if it's predatory or not. I don't truly think it is.....HOWEVER I think our country and our school systems, along with parents, have done such a shitty job preparing teens for adulthood. I know I had no idea what the hell I was doing back then and how much I would owe upon graduation. I thankfully paid mine off eventually. But a lot of people are not so lucky.
Plus the cost of tuition, along with everything else, is so out of proportion with how much wages have grown that it's almost impossible to equate it with how we dealt with it back in the day. It's like comparing modern NFL stats with players from the 70's or 80's...it's a completely different game now.www.myspace.com0 -
Being in lending, predatory has a very specific meaning. So I agree that it's not predatory using the regulatory definition. But the point is correct that kids are uninformed because their parents are either uninformed, or can't say no to their kids. Sometimes I think it's mostly the latter as I know many of these parents and they are very smart. But it's like they get wrapped up in the process and excitement of sending their kid to a fancy school rather than some drab state university.The Juggler said:I'm not sure if it's predatory or not. I don't truly think it is.....HOWEVER I think our country and our school systems, along with parents, have done such a shitty job preparing teens for adulthood. I know I had no idea what the hell I was doing back then and how much I would owe upon graduation. I thankfully paid mine off eventually. But a lot of people are not so lucky.
Plus the cost of tuition, along with everything else, is so out of proportion with how much wages have grown that it's almost impossible to equate it with how we dealt with it back in the day. It's like comparing modern NFL stats with players from the 70's or 80's...it's a completely different game now.0 -
Yeah and it's been this way for decades now. It's a part of the culture of this country. Tough habit to break.mrussel1 said:
Being in lending, predatory has a very specific meaning. So I agree that it's not predatory using the regulatory definition. But the point is correct that kids are uninformed because their parents are either uninformed, or can't say no to their kids. Sometimes I think it's mostly the latter as I know many of these parents and they are very smart. But it's like they get wrapped up in the process and excitement of sending their kid to a fancy school rather than some drab state university.The Juggler said:I'm not sure if it's predatory or not. I don't truly think it is.....HOWEVER I think our country and our school systems, along with parents, have done such a shitty job preparing teens for adulthood. I know I had no idea what the hell I was doing back then and how much I would owe upon graduation. I thankfully paid mine off eventually. But a lot of people are not so lucky.
Plus the cost of tuition, along with everything else, is so out of proportion with how much wages have grown that it's almost impossible to equate it with how we dealt with it back in the day. It's like comparing modern NFL stats with players from the 70's or 80's...it's a completely different game now.
www.myspace.com0 -
do kids still do those career assessment tests in middle school?I did back when. top 5 were several trades. number 1 being driving.aftr approx 1.4 million miles behind me, I wish I would have gotten sober much much earlier than I did at 37/38 yrs old.I dropped out of hs. I am in a profession I seem to be built for. we cracked 6 figures a couple years ago on about 50 hrs a week.edit to add. so growing up it was effectively beaten into me that I was going to college. had no and still dont have any interest.Post edited by mickeyrat on_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I saw that on the fake news, but Fox hasn't reported it yet so it's probably not real.mickeyrat said:0 -
And like those 497000 new hires would vote for Brandon anyway.mrussel1 said:
I saw that on the fake news, but Fox hasn't reported it yet so it's probably not real.mickeyrat said:09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I'm not sure of the chart but I think this show inflation going down?The Juggler said:0 -
Sorry--yes. CPI came out today.tempo_n_groove said:
I'm not sure of the chart but I think this show inflation going down?The Juggler said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/12/inflation-rose-just-0point2percent-in-june-less-than-expected-as-consumers-get-a-break-from-price-increases.html
I think they might still raise .25% in a couple weeks and that could be it...Post edited by The Juggler onwww.myspace.com0 -
GDP - UP
Employment - UP
Inflation - DOWN
Sounds pretty good. I'm sure it will seem terrible once I read some Fox News.0
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