Turn Tables and DACs - Getting the best sound

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  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    mrussel1 said:
    RS65573 said:
    In the Psst Fresh Faced - Earthling thread, some users were nice enough to help me get some info on how to hook up my dads old turn table. In an effort to not pollute that thread, I thought id move this here.

    Right now, I'm running a 70s Audio Research Turn table (AR-XB), into an 80s Pioneer SA-V1160 Amplifier, then out to 2 old Advent speakers.
    I also have a Laptop, with Flacs, headphone out, into RCA AUX in Pioneer receiver.

    My question is what receiver/amp/DAC device will allow me to hook 2 inputs then go out to my Advents to replace my receiver/amp? (This Pioneer is huge and really ugly.)

    I think the Shiit Modi is what I want on the DAC front, but that doesn't take into account the turn table.

    Thanks in advance for the help.

    I will be testing the FLAC out tonight on Benaroya. 
    You have two options...

    1. Purchase a more modern integrated amp that has an internal DAC ( almost all do) along with at least one analog input,  and a USB A input. 

    2. Keep your ugly 80s receiver and get an external DAC like the Schiit that accepts USB A as well.  

    The reason USB A is key is two fold 

    First,  it's unlikely that your laptop has an optical out. Few do.  If you do,  then you have some more flexibility.  But generally they do not.  So you have to use USB A to connect the laptop to the DAC or integrated amp along with a software program like JRiver.

    Now the good news is that this is the best way to play digital music. It's bit perfect,  jitter free and bypasses the crappy sound card in your laptop. 
    Huge thanks to everyone!!! Great information.

    I will check out the Marantz pm7000n. I also saw some decent reviews on other huge big box units...but I dont love this route.

    foriginalsin - Ill absolutely get them off the floor on stands. I'm usually sitting playing guitar or screwing around with records on the floor, so lower is ok.

    mrussel1 -  I am in IT, how big an advantage is an optical out? If its huge, ill get something. Right now i'm just playing the FLAC in VLC player. Ill check out Jriver.

    The issue I have is when I remove the amp, I don't fully understand the amount and correct shiit I would need. 

    So, I would need the Magni just for headphones, the Modi for the digital audio from computer and the Mani Preamp for the turn table. Then I also need some kind of switch right to get 2 inputs?

    Going to read about the Cambridge DacMagic 100 and asgard.

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,922
    RS65573 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    RS65573 said:
    In the Psst Fresh Faced - Earthling thread, some users were nice enough to help me get some info on how to hook up my dads old turn table. In an effort to not pollute that thread, I thought id move this here.

    Right now, I'm running a 70s Audio Research Turn table (AR-XB), into an 80s Pioneer SA-V1160 Amplifier, then out to 2 old Advent speakers.
    I also have a Laptop, with Flacs, headphone out, into RCA AUX in Pioneer receiver.

    My question is what receiver/amp/DAC device will allow me to hook 2 inputs then go out to my Advents to replace my receiver/amp? (This Pioneer is huge and really ugly.)

    I think the Shiit Modi is what I want on the DAC front, but that doesn't take into account the turn table.

    Thanks in advance for the help.

    I will be testing the FLAC out tonight on Benaroya. 
    You have two options...

    1. Purchase a more modern integrated amp that has an internal DAC ( almost all do) along with at least one analog input,  and a USB A input. 

    2. Keep your ugly 80s receiver and get an external DAC like the Schiit that accepts USB A as well.  

    The reason USB A is key is two fold 

    First,  it's unlikely that your laptop has an optical out. Few do.  If you do,  then you have some more flexibility.  But generally they do not.  So you have to use USB A to connect the laptop to the DAC or integrated amp along with a software program like JRiver.

    Now the good news is that this is the best way to play digital music. It's bit perfect,  jitter free and bypasses the crappy sound card in your laptop. 
    Huge thanks to everyone!!! Great information.

    I will check out the Marantz pm7000n. I also saw some decent reviews on other huge big box units...but I dont love this route.

    foriginalsin - Ill absolutely get them off the floor on stands. I'm usually sitting playing guitar or screwing around with records on the floor, so lower is ok.

    mrussel1 -  I am in IT, how big an advantage is an optical out? If its huge, ill get something. Right now i'm just playing the FLAC in VLC player. Ill check out Jriver.

    The issue I have is when I remove the amp, I don't fully understand the amount and correct shiit I would need. 

    So, I would need the Magni just for headphones, the Modi for the digital audio from computer and the Mani Preamp for the turn table. Then I also need some kind of switch right to get 2 inputs?

    Going to read about the Cambridge DacMagic 100 and asgard.

    1. Optical out is not an advantage.  I'm just saying it's an extra port you could use if you had a DAC or integrated amp that had optical but not USB-A.  USB-A is the gold standard of digital audio because it would allow you to use ASIO or WASAPI drivers (depending on what your DAC supported).  This is the bit perfect method that essentially provides a direct path from the source on your pc out to the USB (vs passing through a more complicated path through your laptop sound card).  What you are doing today, using the headphone out to your receiver, is the worst method.  You are using your laptops crappy sound card to convert digital to analog.  You're definitely losing serious fidelity that comes with FLAC files.  

    2. If you remove your amp, you need a new integrated, pre/amp amplifier combo, or receiver.  You need something to power the speakers. 

    The setup you're trying to do is not complicated at all.  We're all throwing a bunch of crap at you, but you could easily do a decent integrated amp and plug your laptop and TT straight into it, and be done.  Poof.  The question really is what is your budget, and are you trying to meet your goal on day one, or add pieces over time.  
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    The goal was to get dads turn table going. Now its just getting the best sounds and look. I would prefer not spend over 7-800, but would go higher on the right setup.

    As you say, id love to do piecemeal, but once I pull that amp, I need everything.

    I would buy the Modi today but its out of stock. I want to listen to Benaroya as high quality as I can without buying the record.

    Am I right that with the Magni, Modi, Mani I'm short an input and would have to swap for PC/Turn Table or am I missing something?
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited February 2022
    RS65573 said:
    The goal was to get dads turn table going. Now its just getting the best sounds and look. I would prefer not spend over 7-800, but would go higher on the right setup.

    As you say, id love to do piecemeal, but once I pull that amp, I need everything.

    I would buy the Modi today but its out of stock. I want to listen to Benaroya as high quality as I can without buying the record.

    Am I right that with the Magni, Modi, Mani I'm short an input and would have to swap for PC/Turn Table or am I missing something?
    Not to derail the thread, but if it’s your dads old turntable you may want to look at the cartridge.  

    The best setup in the world can’t make up for an old/worn  stylus  and bad cartridge. 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    Your right Cropduster and thanks for the tip.

    Dad was a bit of an audio guy in the 70s, so the turn table had 2 old cartridges in a plastic case as well as the one on the unit, which im not sure how to tell what kind it is. Im getting there. Alot of information.

    The backup cartridges look like an Audio Dynamics and a Pickering.
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
     
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,922
    RS65573 said:
    The goal was to get dads turn table going. Now its just getting the best sounds and look. I would prefer not spend over 7-800, but would go higher on the right setup.

    As you say, id love to do piecemeal, but once I pull that amp, I need everything.

    I would buy the Modi today but its out of stock. I want to listen to Benaroya as high quality as I can without buying the record.

    Am I right that with the Magni, Modi, Mani I'm short an input and would have to swap for PC/Turn Table or am I missing something?
    I assume your receiver today has a phono amp.  That's why you don't have an external one and are connecting your TT directly to it, right?  Below I see a ground on the left, so that means phono. 

    If you waned to do piecemeal, honestly the only thing you need right now is the external DAC. Adding that to your rig would dramatically improve your digital audio quality.  

    Adding the phone stage would help next, as I'm sure the phono stage in your receiver is pretty old and could use some help.  And then your headphone stage, if you use that often.  

    Changing your receiver/amp could be last.  Solid state amps should all sound the same, or at least the difference should not be wildly different.  So you could skip that.  However, if you are going to do it, all these Schiit's could become unnecessary down the line, as every replacement integrated will have some combo of phono, headphone, DAC.  It just depends if you like to have stand alone components for flexibility.  So you have to plan.  

    Regarding your last question, I don't know what you mean by an input short. If this image is of the back of your receiver, you have plenty of analog inputs.  You could run your new DAC to any of them, same with the phone stage.  Then, assuming there is an analog out (I can't really see), you would have the headphone amp at the end of the line.  So DAC/Phono stage ->receiver ->analog out > headphone amp.  If you don't have an analog out, then it gets a little more complicated to put the headphone amp into the chain, but it can be done with an RCA selector.  


  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    Thank you again.

    Yes the Pioneer has a phono amp.

    I dont care if its stand alone components or one thing, but I hate the big black receiver look.

    As far as an input short, the goal is to get everything hooked up without having to swap anything and replace the Pioneer. Everything from Shiit has a single input.

    Is the assumption all the shiit equipment precedes the Pioneer Amp and that remains? I guess so because none of these have speaker outs.

    Sorry this is a lot of info and old equipment i'm trying to understand.
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    I cant speak to its quality, but this would eliminate every item including the computer.

    KEiiD Bluetooth (V5.0) Stereo Digital Amplifier Receiver

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SLRBDV4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?SubscriptionId=AKIAJO7E5OLQ67NVPFZA&ascsubtag=345539904-2-&tag=shopperz_origin3-20

    Then I just need 1 input for turn table, put my FLAC on USB and this can play them. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,922
    Because you want everything hooked up and no swapping, you have to either keep the Pioneer, or replace it.  It cannot be eliminated.  You have multiple inputs (TT and digital audio) therefore you need a proper preamp stage.  And you have speakers, so you need an amplifier stage.  There's no way around it.  Getting these Schiits will not remove the need for preamp/amp combo.  

    Considering your budget, and your desire to get the best sound for your money, I would really suggest you get an integrated amplifier.  You could make one purchase and be done.  You can always tweak it with external components down the line if you want to get a little more out of your system, but you will always need the preamp/amplifier stage regardless.  

    I get your disdain of the black box.  In particular, 80's components are terribly ugly.  Here's a suggestion.  It's a touch over your price point ($899) but it's a dynamite performer.  Yamaha A-S801.  It's a beautiful design, has phono stage, internal DAC that accepts USB, optical or coaxial (so you could plug in your laptop and a TV as well).  Also has a sub out, and 2 sets of speakers.  You can also run Yamaha's in 'pure direct' mode, which turns off internal cards, so the signal is direct.  It's quieter and cleaner.  If you don't know about Yamaha, it's very well regarded and punches well above its price point.  It's also a looker.  

    You will not spend less than $900 and get a better combo of dacs, phone, headphone and pre/amp stage without buying used and even then, maybe not.  

    https://www.musicdirect.com/integrated-amp/yamaha-a-s801-integrated-amp?variant=AYHAAS801S&gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrBXihwv8lz72pYLUOVeCTuFaILLkFO4zOokK3h2YprjGB6psbnSUnhoCzyMQAvD_BwE

    Plus, if you order from Music Direct or Crutchfield, you get try it out and send it back if you don't like it. They have cheaper models, but you'll lose some things like USB, A+B speakers, smaller wpc, etc. 



  • JBob87
    JBob87 Posts: 485
    mrussel1 said:
    Because you want everything hooked up and no swapping, you have to either keep the Pioneer, or replace it.  It cannot be eliminated.  You have multiple inputs (TT and digital audio) therefore you need a proper preamp stage.  And you have speakers, so you need an amplifier stage.  There's no way around it.  Getting these Schiits will not remove the need for preamp/amp combo.  

    Considering your budget, and your desire to get the best sound for your money, I would really suggest you get an integrated amplifier.  You could make one purchase and be done.  You can always tweak it with external components down the line if you want to get a little more out of your system, but you will always need the preamp/amplifier stage regardless.  

    I get your disdain of the black box.  In particular, 80's components are terribly ugly.  Here's a suggestion.  It's a touch over your price point ($899) but it's a dynamite performer.  Yamaha A-S801.  It's a beautiful design, has phono stage, internal DAC that accepts USB, optical or coaxial (so you could plug in your laptop and a TV as well).  Also has a sub out, and 2 sets of speakers.  You can also run Yamaha's in 'pure direct' mode, which turns off internal cards, so the signal is direct.  It's quieter and cleaner.  If you don't know about Yamaha, it's very well regarded and punches well above its price point.  It's also a looker.  

    You will not spend less than $900 and get a better combo of dacs, phone, headphone and pre/amp stage without buying used and even then, maybe not.  

    https://www.musicdirect.com/integrated-amp/yamaha-a-s801-integrated-amp?variant=AYHAAS801S&gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrBXihwv8lz72pYLUOVeCTuFaILLkFO4zOokK3h2YprjGB6psbnSUnhoCzyMQAvD_BwE

    Plus, if you order from Music Direct or Crutchfield, you get try it out and send it back if you don't like it. They have cheaper models, but you'll lose some things like USB, A+B speakers, smaller wpc, etc. 



    This is the way...
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    Appreciate the feedback, love the Mandalorian, cant buy that hideous thing. Can they make it bigger?
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,922
    RS65573 said:
    Appreciate the feedback, love the Mandalorian, cant buy that hideous thing. Can they make it bigger?
    What's the mandalorian?
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    "This is the way...", is a quote from Mandalorian Star Wars show on Disney +.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,922
    RS65573 said:
    "This is the way...", is a quote from Mandalorian Star Wars show on Disney +.
    You could try the Emotiva, which is good but not as good as the Yamaha.  It's not as powerful.  It's more compact though  But it does support MC as well, so a little more future flexibility.  https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/basx-ta1-stereo-preamp-dac-tuner-with-integrated-amplifier

    If your'e willing to throw down another grand, then the Peachtree Nova is highly regarded.  But you pay for the size efficiency, at $1700

    https://www.audioadvice.com/peachtree-nova300-amplifier+color-Gloss~Ebony~Mocha?gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrHlydp9iDk2pnfn1mTvt0bRpxbIntCbwDM1atDr_J11K7XJPvFhNlBoCCzwQAvD_BwE
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    Thanks. I like the size of the Emotiva. This would require those banana plugs?
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,922
    RS65573 said:
    Thanks. I like the size of the Emotiva. This would require those banana plugs?
    I doubt it.  they just accept banana plugs.  The likely unscrew and you secure the wire behind them, then screw them back down.  Emotiva is good about answering their phones.  You can call or use their chat function to confirm. 
  • foriginalsin
    foriginalsin Posts: 713
    I have the topping ex5. Its a combo headphone amp, and dac. It also has a bluetooth receiver that does the highest quality ldac standard. It also decodes mqa(not that its necessary and maybe snake oil, but thats a different discussion). 


    Its quite complicated with many charts. If you dont understand it, thats fine. All you need to know is that it produces an extremely clean signal with extremely low noise and distortion in both the DAC and headphone amp.  This measures better than the schiit products but those are good too.  


    Going the component way will give you way better sound than any integrated amplifier. Most integrated solutions will have much worse signal to noise ratio. However, the simplicity of an integrated solution is nice. 

    I highly suggest the mani 2, as will improve the sound. Also, as others have suggested, definitely check your cartridge. 

    The schiit sys is what I suggested before to switch between my analog and digital systems, its simple, cheap and transparent. 

    Have fun!
  • RS65573
    RS65573 Posts: 2,500
    Thanks foriginalsin. 

    How do I go out from the EX5? I dont know what these 3 prong plugs are, but I used to use MICs with that type plug.

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