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I would like to know what your thoughts are for returns on the Lost Dogs Forum

landolinkslandolinks HoustonPosts: 28
edited January 10 in Lost Dogs
    I recently had a transaction that has gone a little sour and wanted to get some input. I will leave out a few details as far as if I was the buyer or seller to keep this as unbiased as possible and will not be mentioning the counterparties name as this is not an attempt to drag someone's name through the mud. Just looking for a general feel on this topic.
    A pearl jam vinyl was sold through the Lost Dogs forum for around $100 that was described as "great condition". When the record was opened by the buyer the album cover has two bubbles on the front. The buyer notified the seller immediately and conversation was very cordial and has remained that way. The seller apologized and said that it had been on the shelf and just didn't realize of that condition issue. The buyer and seller were not able to come to terms in a negotiation as far as what a discounted amount would be so the return was the only option. 
   This is where it gets a little hairy. The seller has reimbursed the buyer for the album and the original shipping cost but doesn't feel paying the return shipping is appropriate. I will include a few pics of the cover. As I mentioned the buyer/seller have been nothing but friendly and I would like to keep it that way. So who should pay the shipping fees on returns? Once again plz keep comments positive as this isn't meant to offend anyone, just figuring out what protocol is to achieve a solution. Go!
Post edited by Sea on

I would like to know what your thoughts are for returns on the Lost Dogs Forum 42 votes

Seller pays return shipping fee
73%
lastchild11HollisBrownnuzzer1BillGlorifiedGpdalowskyLukinFankasedougpledgeagrievancejjflashKearn5yyerkes79exploderballtinz.Greatplainsman...TC282314BLACK35desolatejoyF Me In The Brainandrew68Jason7192 31 votes
Buyer pays return shipping fee
26%
whoyouare72gibbitsCopperTomDukeSpiritGibsonpearljimhrd2imgnjpgoegelSparty0Ckgeng45LetMySpiritPass 11 votes
«1

Comments

  • OP, you should edit your thread and post in LD only. This is likely to get moved. 
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  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 3,597
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    It’s just a matter of what was disclosed. If a seller didn’t inspect and report on the item condition well enough, then the buyer should not be on the hook for anything if an agreed amount can’t be reached for the trouble. 
    Pittsburgh 2013
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  • Kearn5yKearn5y IrelandPosts: 2,106
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    Looks like it has been relisted with the fault noted. 
    Kearnsy
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 9,584
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    How much is shipping? Would that be equal to the discounted amount you are trying to agree upon?

    Seems like the seller is trying to come out with not losing as much money as they can which is understandable but also should of spent more time inspecting and grading what they are selling. Tough one but it is the sellers responsibility to full disclose the condition. Imo the buyer should not lose a dime as long as they are not being picky to a point.

    I do not buy or sell much merch so maybe I am wrong with the above but thats how I would feel if I was in that situation. 
    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
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  • rustneversleepsrustneversleeps The Motel of Lost CompanionsPosts: 1,956
    splitting hairs here.  you didnt want it, ship it back.  
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  • ZodZod Posts: 8,095
    I dunno. That's tough. Someone is going to be out the shipping.   That being said those bubbles on the cover should of been noticible when packing the record (unless the record was already in a box and the seller didn't check it before mailing it).

    I dunno. It feels to me like this this one's on the seller.   Had you know the condition, you might not of ordered it, or not paid that amount for it.   That being said there's always middle ground, maybe split the shipping

    It's too bad you couldn't negotiate a discount. That would probably be the easiest thing to do.  Shipping makes everything expensive :(
  • cp3iversoncp3iverson Posts: 8,096
    I’m just glad everyone is keeping it classy.  Stuff happens. 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,958
    I would say split the shipping.  Just my .02.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Kearn5yKearn5y IrelandPosts: 2,106
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    mcgruff10 said:
    I would say split the shipping.  Just my .02.  
    Zod said:
    I dunno. That's tough. Someone is going to be out the shipping.   That being said those bubbles on the cover should of been noticible when packing the record (unless the record was already in a box and the seller didn't check it before mailing it).

    I dunno. It feels to me like this this one's on the seller.   Had you know the condition, you might not of ordered it, or not paid that amount for it.   That being said there's always middle ground, maybe split the shipping

    It's too bad you couldn't negotiate a discount. That would probably be the easiest thing to do.  Shipping makes everything expensive :(
    Add this as an option, and I would have chosen it. 
    Kearnsy
  • JojoRiceJojoRice Kennesaw, GAPosts: 2,220
    I agree. Split the return shipping cost.
    "I got memories, I got shit"

  • mfc2006mfc2006 HOU-->PDX-->KCPosts: 35,122
    mcgruff10 said:
    I would say split the shipping.  Just my .02.  
    Yup--fair for all involved.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
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    www.cluthe.com
  • hihobibohihobibo Tampa, FLPosts: 755
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    In this situation, If I was the seller, I'd pay the fee, but if I was the buyer, I'd offer to split the return fee. I think the seller needs to take on the cost because the condition should have been noticeable prior to sending it out. 

    Once I sold a poster that looked good framed, but had a little corner wear I noticed when it was not in the frame. I mentioned it to the buyer before shipping, took photos, and they asked if I would take some $ off the price. 


  • PP193448PP193448 Springboro, OHPosts: 4,139
    The buyer was already reimbursed shipping fee to receive the vinyl.  Buyer should pay the return shipping fee.  Seems completely fair to me. But why even go thru this if the actual LPs are in great shape.  $100 is a good price.
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 12,036
    Seller pays.  The item was not accurately described so it’s on them to pay for the return.  Cheers to the parties involved for keeping it cordial. 👍🏻
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park 
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)
    2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: MSG | Asbury Park

  • Kearn5y said:
    Looks like it has been relisted with the fault noted. 
    If the item has been re-listed, maybe the new buyer can pay the seller who in turn pays back the original buyer who ships it on behalf of the seller and gets their original shipping money back. 

  • HollisBrownHollisBrown Posts: 3,938
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    I returned a Klausen Pearl Jam poster from Jojosposters and only got the price of the poster returned. So, even the best don’t reimburse return shipping.
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  • Seller pays return shipping fee
    Onus is on the seller to send out item as described 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 29,194
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    item not as described: seller assumes all liability. the buyer shouldn't have to pay for something when the end result is no product/service is rendered in the end. 

    that being said, there have been transactions I've been involved in, where the seller quoted me a shipping price that was way below the actual cost. it was already a decent price, so I offered to meet the seller halfway on the actual shipping cost, even after agreeing to the original price quoted. I was, however, keeping the item. 
    ....courage is fear that just said its prayers....


  • RoleModelsinBlood31RoleModelsinBlood31 Austin TXPosts: 5,798
    Shoot I woulda kept it.  $100 is a good price.  It’s unsealed anyway, just spin them bad circles
    I'm like an opening band for your mom.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,568
    I don’t think there’s a set answer of who pays what, it depends on each situation. One man’s definition of excellent condition might be another man’s poor. If a bubble is that big of a deal to the buyer, especially to the point where no partially refund could be reached, he could ask more questions and for more pictures. If he did and it was assured it met his definition of excellent, then that might be on the seller. If he didn’t, and just assumed it would be near perfect and the bubbles are too small to even show up in the pictures, then it might be on the buyer, at least partially and to the point of split the shipping.
    I haven’t sold a lot of high end items, but the few I have the buyer asked questions and I have gave explanations and close up pictures. I’ve done the same as a buyer. I’ve purchased posters labeled “good condition.” I asked specifically what that meant, what kept him from calling it mint or nm, and for pictures. There’s been a few times I was happy and bought it and a few times I decided not to. I have never wished I didn’t ask though.
    A couple small bubbles might prevent most from calling it excellent condition, but if that’s going to make someone want to return the item at no cost, probably better off to get a better description first.
    All that being said, I've been lucky here and dealt with great people. I can think of 3 posters off hand that were in better shape than I expected because looking at it in person wasn’t as bad as the close up pictures I was given. Gibbons was one seller, can’t remember the other 2 off hand (but I remember which posters they were). 
    My point, sellers always seem happy to talk about condition in more detail if it’s important.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 26,345
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    I voted how I feel, but if everything is cordial I'm sure I wouldn't sweat it and would pay it as the buyer or be happy to split it.

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 13,791
    Probably cases to be made for seller, buyer or split.   Could be on the buyer if they don't ask about condition, but on seller if they lie about condition or clearly don't disclose significant condition issues even where the buyer doesn't ask.  
  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Calgary ABPosts: 4,450
    edited January 11
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    Splitting it actually makes sense. I’ve had a great experience with this seller thus far. 
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
  • pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UKPosts: 13,949
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    Kearn5y said:
    Looks like it has been relisted with the fault noted. 
    If the item has been re-listed, maybe the new buyer can pay the seller who in turn pays back the original buyer who ships it on behalf of the seller and gets their original shipping money back. 

    winner
  • marjenmarjen CTPosts: 735
    I have to say that I am very disappointed that this transaction was posted publicly. Especially under the guise of being anonymous. It would only take about 30 seconds for anyone here to see my post listing my vaults and especially noticing I have relisted this vault with an updated description.

    As is usually the case there is a LOT more to this story and I should have trusted my gut after a lot of negotiating with this buyer over several of my vaults and just not gone through with the sale. But since he has already made this public in an obvious attempt to gain public sympathy and force my hand here I will state the minimum facts without getting too far into it. 

    First off I have sold MANY items on here, espressobens, eBay, discogs, avsforum etc over the last 15-20 years. In all that time i can only remember a couple times where a buyer received something and was not 100% satisfied but in those very few situations we were able to come to a solution that worked for both parties in good faith.

    I have my records listed as great condition and still stand by that. I honesty find I have never really listened to my vault records. As a fan of both PJ and records I always get sucked into buying them, maybe spin one or two of the records and then they sit on my shelf collecting dust. This record has sat vertically stored on a shelf next to my other vault records most likely since I purchase it. I have never really handled it other then when i placed it there and took it out to package. 

    My records are in my media room, which is a dark room that I always have the lights low in. I took the record off the shelf, checked the usual possible trouble spots (corners, sleeves) and packaged it up. This is not a situation of some scammer trying to pull a fast one on a buyer. I did not see the waviness on the cover.

    I will also say after seeing the pictures that were sent to me, it honestly looks like a manufacturing issue. It either came to me like that and I never really considered it an issue, I mean man I have received records sealed in much, much worse shape. Or the glue that holds the cover together came lose over the last couple years as maybe they didnt use enough. It does not look like damage i could have possibly incurred. It could be the paper used in the cover. I have seen a similar waviness develop on some of the older PJ posters over the years. 

    So anyway, yes the cover is not perfect. I sold the record to the buyer for $100 + shipping. This was lower than my asking price on a record I believe was already priced very fairly. After seeing the issue. I immediately offered a $10 discount. He refused and wanted a full refund. Fine I refunded the $100. He then wanted his original shipping refunded. I didnt quite agree with this as I felt we should be able to work out some kind of acceptable compromise but fine whatever I sent the $24 shipping back as well. Now he also wants return shipping. At this point I feel I am taking a huge loss on what I personally see as a very small issue. I paid $70.20 for this new from 10 club. I said look I will make the discount $20. At that point I am not really making any money on the record, he gets to keep it and at least I dont lose money this deal. He says he says he wants a $35 refund. That is not a compromise in my book. That’s a massive discount on a minor issue. 

    He did offer to hold the record and have it shipped from his house if and when i find another seller which at this point appears to be my best option but it never should have gotten this far. I will also note that after buying this he bought 2 more of this same vault sealed for a little cheaper than he bought this one opened, so now he sees my price as too high which is why I believe he is refusing my discount offers. That really raises a lot of questions about this whole thing in my mind. 

    So that is my side of the story. Again I really did not want to post this but felt the way this was brought to light might make potential buyers shy away from buying any of my other records as they might think I was doing something shady here, and there is nothing further from the truth. Going forward I will be doing extra diligence on these vaults and sending pics to buyers before they go out to make sure there are no more issues. I always provide pics when asked, which was not the situation in this case FYI, but will be sending pics either way.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 29,194
    Seller pays return shipping fee
    Kearn5y said:
    Looks like it has been relisted with the fault noted. 
    If the item has been re-listed, maybe the new buyer can pay the seller who in turn pays back the original buyer who ships it on behalf of the seller and gets their original shipping money back. 

    i tried this exact scenario, but with insane shipping amounts and exchange rates, it was just too expensive. (for me)
    ....courage is fear that just said its prayers....


  • rustneversleepsrustneversleeps The Motel of Lost CompanionsPosts: 1,956
    marjen said:
    I have to say that I am very disappointed that this transaction was posted publicly. Especially under the guise of being anonymous. It would only take about 30 seconds for anyone here to see my post listing my vaults and especially noticing I have relisted this vault with an updated description.

    As is usually the case there is a LOT more to this story and I should have trusted my gut after a lot of negotiating with this buyer over several of my vaults and just not gone through with the sale. But since he has already made this public in an obvious attempt to gain public sympathy and force my hand here I will state the minimum facts without getting too far into it. 

    First off I have sold MANY items on here, espressobens, eBay, discogs, avsforum etc over the last 15-20 years. In all that time i can only remember a couple times where a buyer received something and was not 100% satisfied but in those very few situations we were able to come to a solution that worked for both parties in good faith.

    I have my records listed as great condition and still stand by that. I honesty find I have never really listened to my vault records. As a fan of both PJ and records I always get sucked into buying them, maybe spin one or two of the records and then they sit on my shelf collecting dust. This record has sat vertically stored on a shelf next to my other vault records most likely since I purchase it. I have never really handled it other then when i placed it there and took it out to package. 

    My records are in my media room, which is a dark room that I always have the lights low in. I took the record off the shelf, checked the usual possible trouble spots (corners, sleeves) and packaged it up. This is not a situation of some scammer trying to pull a fast one on a buyer. I did not see the waviness on the cover.

    I will also say after seeing the pictures that were sent to me, it honestly looks like a manufacturing issue. It either came to me like that and I never really considered it an issue, I mean man I have received records sealed in much, much worse shape. Or the glue that holds the cover together came lose over the last couple years as maybe they didnt use enough. It does not look like damage i could have possibly incurred. It could be the paper used in the cover. I have seen a similar waviness develop on some of the older PJ posters over the years. 

    So anyway, yes the cover is not perfect. I sold the record to the buyer for $100 + shipping. This was lower than my asking price on a record I believe was already priced very fairly. After seeing the issue. I immediately offered a $10 discount. He refused and wanted a full refund. Fine I refunded the $100. He then wanted his original shipping refunded. I didnt quite agree with this as I felt we should be able to work out some kind of acceptable compromise but fine whatever I sent the $24 shipping back as well. Now he also wants return shipping. At this point I feel I am taking a huge loss on what I personally see as a very small issue. I paid $70.20 for this new from 10 club. I said look I will make the discount $20. At that point I am not really making any money on the record, he gets to keep it and at least I dont lose money this deal. He says he says he wants a $35 refund. That is not a compromise in my book. That’s a massive discount on a minor issue. 

    He did offer to hold the record and have it shipped from his house if and when i find another seller which at this point appears to be my best option but it never should have gotten this far. I will also note that after buying this he bought 2 more of this same vault sealed for a little cheaper than he bought this one opened, so now he sees my price as too high which is why I believe he is refusing my discount offers. That really raises a lot of questions about this whole thing in my mind. 

    So that is my side of the story. Again I really did not want to post this but felt the way this was brought to light might make potential buyers shy away from buying any of my other records as they might think I was doing something shady here, and there is nothing further from the truth. Going forward I will be doing extra diligence on these vaults and sending pics to buyers before they go out to make sure there are no more issues. I always provide pics when asked, which was not the situation in this case FYI, but will be sending pics either way.
    100% agree. The original post was a weasel move. Good luck with everything 
    {1996} Columbia, MD 9/24 - NYC 9/28 {1998} Camden, NJ 8/28-8/29 {2000} Jones Beach, NY 8/25 - Camden, NJ 9/1-9/2 {2003} West Palm Beach, FL 4/11 - Phila, PA 4/28 - Buffalo, NY 5/2 - State College, PA 5/3 - Camden, NJ 7/5-7/6 - NYC 7/9 {2004} Reading, PA 10/1 {2005} George, WA 9/1 - Vancouver, BC 9/2 - Atlantic City, NJ 9/30 - Phila, PA 10/3 {2006} NYC 5/5 - Boston, MA 5/25 - Camden, NJ 5/27-5/28 - East Rutherford, NJ 6/1-6/3 - Las Vegas, NV 7/6 {2007} Chicago, IL 8/5 {2008} Manchester, TN 6/14 - Virginia Beach, VA 6/17 - Camden, NJ 6/19-6/20 - Washington, DC 6/22 {2009} Phila, PA 10/27-10/30-10/31 {2012} Phila, PA 9/2 {2013} Chicago, IL 7/19 - Brooklyn, NY 10/19 - Phila, PA 10/21-10/22 - Hartford, CT 10/25 - Baltimore, MD 10/27 - Seattle, WA 12/6 {2014} Lincoln, NE 10/9 - Austin, TX 10/12 - Detroit, MI 10/16 - Moline, IL 10/17 - Denver, CO 10/22 - Mountain View, CA 10/25 {2015} NYC 9/26 {2016} Greenville, SC 4/16 - Hampton, VA 4/18 - Phila, PA 4/28-4/29 - NYC 5/1-5/2 - Telluride, CO 7/9 - Boston, MA 8/5 - Chicago, IL 8/20-8/22 {2017} RRHOF Brooklyn, NY 4/7 {2018} Seattle, WA 8/8-8/10 - Chicago, IL 8/18-8/20 {2021} Dana Point, CA 9/26-10/1-10/2

    <--EV--> {2008} NYC 8/5 {2009} Albany, NY 6/9 {2015} Rosemont, IL 5/14 
                   OHANA- Dana Point, CA - 9/9/2017 - 9/29/2018 - 9/28/2019 - 9/25/2021

    <--TOTD--> Phila, PA 11/4-11/5 - Seattle, WA 11/20-11/21
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,875
    marjen said:
    I have to say that I am very disappointed that this transaction was posted publicly. Especially under the guise of being anonymous. It would only take about 30 seconds for anyone here to see my post listing my vaults and especially noticing I have relisted this vault with an updated description.

    As is usually the case there is a LOT more to this story and I should have trusted my gut after a lot of negotiating with this buyer over several of my vaults and just not gone through with the sale. But since he has already made this public in an obvious attempt to gain public sympathy and force my hand here I will state the minimum facts without getting too far into it. 

    First off I have sold MANY items on here, espressobens, eBay, discogs, avsforum etc over the last 15-20 years. In all that time i can only remember a couple times where a buyer received something and was not 100% satisfied but in those very few situations we were able to come to a solution that worked for both parties in good faith.

    I have my records listed as great condition and still stand by that. I honesty find I have never really listened to my vault records. As a fan of both PJ and records I always get sucked into buying them, maybe spin one or two of the records and then they sit on my shelf collecting dust. This record has sat vertically stored on a shelf next to my other vault records most likely since I purchase it. I have never really handled it other then when i placed it there and took it out to package. 

    My records are in my media room, which is a dark room that I always have the lights low in. I took the record off the shelf, checked the usual possible trouble spots (corners, sleeves) and packaged it up. This is not a situation of some scammer trying to pull a fast one on a buyer. I did not see the waviness on the cover.

    I will also say after seeing the pictures that were sent to me, it honestly looks like a manufacturing issue. It either came to me like that and I never really considered it an issue, I mean man I have received records sealed in much, much worse shape. Or the glue that holds the cover together came lose over the last couple years as maybe they didnt use enough. It does not look like damage i could have possibly incurred. It could be the paper used in the cover. I have seen a similar waviness develop on some of the older PJ posters over the years. 

    So anyway, yes the cover is not perfect. I sold the record to the buyer for $100 + shipping. This was lower than my asking price on a record I believe was already priced very fairly. After seeing the issue. I immediately offered a $10 discount. He refused and wanted a full refund. Fine I refunded the $100. He then wanted his original shipping refunded. I didnt quite agree with this as I felt we should be able to work out some kind of acceptable compromise but fine whatever I sent the $24 shipping back as well. Now he also wants return shipping. At this point I feel I am taking a huge loss on what I personally see as a very small issue. I paid $70.20 for this new from 10 club. I said look I will make the discount $20. At that point I am not really making any money on the record, he gets to keep it and at least I dont lose money this deal. He says he says he wants a $35 refund. That is not a compromise in my book. That’s a massive discount on a minor issue. 

    He did offer to hold the record and have it shipped from his house if and when i find another seller which at this point appears to be my best option but it never should have gotten this far. I will also note that after buying this he bought 2 more of this same vault sealed for a little cheaper than he bought this one opened, so now he sees my price as too high which is why I believe he is refusing my discount offers. That really raises a lot of questions about this whole thing in my mind. 

    So that is my side of the story. Again I really did not want to post this but felt the way this was brought to light might make potential buyers shy away from buying any of my other records as they might think I was doing something shady here, and there is nothing further from the truth. Going forward I will be doing extra diligence on these vaults and sending pics to buyers before they go out to make sure there are no more issues. I always provide pics when asked, which was not the situation in this case FYI, but will be sending pics either way.
    $24?  Was this an international sale?  I stay away from int'l.  Too many problems, variables.  If it ends up costing $50 to ship and return, I'd try to find an agreeable prices for the record so it stays put.  That type of shipping makes the whole transaction negative otherwise. 
  • marjenmarjen CTPosts: 735
    mrussel1 said:
    marjen said:
    I have to say that I am very disappointed that this transaction was posted publicly. Especially under the guise of being anonymous. It would only take about 30 seconds for anyone here to see my post listing my vaults and especially noticing I have relisted this vault with an updated description.

    As is usually the case there is a LOT more to this story and I should have trusted my gut after a lot of negotiating with this buyer over several of my vaults and just not gone through with the sale. But since he has already made this public in an obvious attempt to gain public sympathy and force my hand here I will state the minimum facts without getting too far into it. 

    First off I have sold MANY items on here, espressobens, eBay, discogs, avsforum etc over the last 15-20 years. In all that time i can only remember a couple times where a buyer received something and was not 100% satisfied but in those very few situations we were able to come to a solution that worked for both parties in good faith.

    I have my records listed as great condition and still stand by that. I honesty find I have never really listened to my vault records. As a fan of both PJ and records I always get sucked into buying them, maybe spin one or two of the records and then they sit on my shelf collecting dust. This record has sat vertically stored on a shelf next to my other vault records most likely since I purchase it. I have never really handled it other then when i placed it there and took it out to package. 

    My records are in my media room, which is a dark room that I always have the lights low in. I took the record off the shelf, checked the usual possible trouble spots (corners, sleeves) and packaged it up. This is not a situation of some scammer trying to pull a fast one on a buyer. I did not see the waviness on the cover.

    I will also say after seeing the pictures that were sent to me, it honestly looks like a manufacturing issue. It either came to me like that and I never really considered it an issue, I mean man I have received records sealed in much, much worse shape. Or the glue that holds the cover together came lose over the last couple years as maybe they didnt use enough. It does not look like damage i could have possibly incurred. It could be the paper used in the cover. I have seen a similar waviness develop on some of the older PJ posters over the years. 

    So anyway, yes the cover is not perfect. I sold the record to the buyer for $100 + shipping. This was lower than my asking price on a record I believe was already priced very fairly. After seeing the issue. I immediately offered a $10 discount. He refused and wanted a full refund. Fine I refunded the $100. He then wanted his original shipping refunded. I didnt quite agree with this as I felt we should be able to work out some kind of acceptable compromise but fine whatever I sent the $24 shipping back as well. Now he also wants return shipping. At this point I feel I am taking a huge loss on what I personally see as a very small issue. I paid $70.20 for this new from 10 club. I said look I will make the discount $20. At that point I am not really making any money on the record, he gets to keep it and at least I dont lose money this deal. He says he says he wants a $35 refund. That is not a compromise in my book. That’s a massive discount on a minor issue. 

    He did offer to hold the record and have it shipped from his house if and when i find another seller which at this point appears to be my best option but it never should have gotten this far. I will also note that after buying this he bought 2 more of this same vault sealed for a little cheaper than he bought this one opened, so now he sees my price as too high which is why I believe he is refusing my discount offers. That really raises a lot of questions about this whole thing in my mind. 

    So that is my side of the story. Again I really did not want to post this but felt the way this was brought to light might make potential buyers shy away from buying any of my other records as they might think I was doing something shady here, and there is nothing further from the truth. Going forward I will be doing extra diligence on these vaults and sending pics to buyers before they go out to make sure there are no more issues. I always provide pics when asked, which was not the situation in this case FYI, but will be sending pics either way.
    $24?  Was this an international sale?  I stay away from int'l.  Too many problems, variables.  If it ends up costing $50 to ship and return, I'd try to find an agreeable prices for the record so it stays put.  That type of shipping makes the whole transaction negative otherwise. 
    $24 was cheapest lower 48 shipping. Shipping costs are nuts right now. Sent a record to Canada it was $46 and Ireland was like $62. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,875
    marjen said:
    mrussel1 said:
    marjen said:
    I have to say that I am very disappointed that this transaction was posted publicly. Especially under the guise of being anonymous. It would only take about 30 seconds for anyone here to see my post listing my vaults and especially noticing I have relisted this vault with an updated description.

    As is usually the case there is a LOT more to this story and I should have trusted my gut after a lot of negotiating with this buyer over several of my vaults and just not gone through with the sale. But since he has already made this public in an obvious attempt to gain public sympathy and force my hand here I will state the minimum facts without getting too far into it. 

    First off I have sold MANY items on here, espressobens, eBay, discogs, avsforum etc over the last 15-20 years. In all that time i can only remember a couple times where a buyer received something and was not 100% satisfied but in those very few situations we were able to come to a solution that worked for both parties in good faith.

    I have my records listed as great condition and still stand by that. I honesty find I have never really listened to my vault records. As a fan of both PJ and records I always get sucked into buying them, maybe spin one or two of the records and then they sit on my shelf collecting dust. This record has sat vertically stored on a shelf next to my other vault records most likely since I purchase it. I have never really handled it other then when i placed it there and took it out to package. 

    My records are in my media room, which is a dark room that I always have the lights low in. I took the record off the shelf, checked the usual possible trouble spots (corners, sleeves) and packaged it up. This is not a situation of some scammer trying to pull a fast one on a buyer. I did not see the waviness on the cover.

    I will also say after seeing the pictures that were sent to me, it honestly looks like a manufacturing issue. It either came to me like that and I never really considered it an issue, I mean man I have received records sealed in much, much worse shape. Or the glue that holds the cover together came lose over the last couple years as maybe they didnt use enough. It does not look like damage i could have possibly incurred. It could be the paper used in the cover. I have seen a similar waviness develop on some of the older PJ posters over the years. 

    So anyway, yes the cover is not perfect. I sold the record to the buyer for $100 + shipping. This was lower than my asking price on a record I believe was already priced very fairly. After seeing the issue. I immediately offered a $10 discount. He refused and wanted a full refund. Fine I refunded the $100. He then wanted his original shipping refunded. I didnt quite agree with this as I felt we should be able to work out some kind of acceptable compromise but fine whatever I sent the $24 shipping back as well. Now he also wants return shipping. At this point I feel I am taking a huge loss on what I personally see as a very small issue. I paid $70.20 for this new from 10 club. I said look I will make the discount $20. At that point I am not really making any money on the record, he gets to keep it and at least I dont lose money this deal. He says he says he wants a $35 refund. That is not a compromise in my book. That’s a massive discount on a minor issue. 

    He did offer to hold the record and have it shipped from his house if and when i find another seller which at this point appears to be my best option but it never should have gotten this far. I will also note that after buying this he bought 2 more of this same vault sealed for a little cheaper than he bought this one opened, so now he sees my price as too high which is why I believe he is refusing my discount offers. That really raises a lot of questions about this whole thing in my mind. 

    So that is my side of the story. Again I really did not want to post this but felt the way this was brought to light might make potential buyers shy away from buying any of my other records as they might think I was doing something shady here, and there is nothing further from the truth. Going forward I will be doing extra diligence on these vaults and sending pics to buyers before they go out to make sure there are no more issues. I always provide pics when asked, which was not the situation in this case FYI, but will be sending pics either way.
    $24?  Was this an international sale?  I stay away from int'l.  Too many problems, variables.  If it ends up costing $50 to ship and return, I'd try to find an agreeable prices for the record so it stays put.  That type of shipping makes the whole transaction negative otherwise. 
    $24 was cheapest lower 48 shipping. Shipping costs are nuts right now. Sent a record to Canada it was $46 and Ireland was like $62. 
    Media mail, my friend.  It would not cost more than $4 to ship that within the US. 
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