"Black" revisited

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  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    Your insights never cease to amaze me.


    I do remember reading in Wikipedia that EV learned that the man who had raised him was not his father, and I can only imagine how much that must have hurt him...and that is loss, too. Perhaps he has faced many losses in his life.

    I guess that you could say that "Black" is just chock-full of loss.

    Matthew

    Vedderfan10 wrote:
    thanks! However, to Ed, that IS a romantic loss. He's said that his dad was the only man that his mother truly loved...and he has the romantic notion that they did belong together...and the "We belong together" could possibly be Ed referring to the fact that he, his mom, and his dad belong together. That they are the family he never had but really wanted (including the sister put up for adoption)...AND, there is the possiblity that it refers to this AS WELL as his own romantic loss and pain...which, is the standard interpretation of "Black"...

    Ed's world did come crashing down when his mom told him about his real dad and changed everything about him and all he'd beeeeeeeeeee...he said that after he worked so hard to be a songwriter and musician, his relatives were saying that he got his talent from his real dad, which pissed Ed off because he wanted to be recognized for his own talent and that he created it all within himself.

    Ta-dah!

    Whew! This all literally JUST came to me...So Ed, PM me after you get that wonderful Envirnomentalist of the Year award - congrats, by the way!

    Of course, this is the true beauty of Ed's lyrics...they can mean so many things to so many people....what an amazing gift for him, and us because he chooses to share...
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    yellowbird wrote:
    And the tags sum up the frustration of a complicated situation.

    The more I reflect on this idea, the more I agree. That situation, whatever it may be, must be complex....and it does feel very frustrated.
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    Vedderfan10 wrote:
    Ooooooh....freaky....I think I just blew my mind! ;)



    Ok..that blew my mind, too. I had never thought of that part being from the perspective of father to son.

    You made me stop and think over that....too cool.

    Matthew
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    yellowbird wrote:
    frankly, i think the saga will continue until Ed stops doing the tags or stops singing Black altogether.

    As far as the tags go, i personally don't think it's about one party not willing to be with the other (well, maybe in the beginning), but both parties unable to be together.....for whatever reason. And the tags sum up the frustration of a complicated situation. Which, i think, explains the lyrical variations.

    but what do i know.....................................

    We can only hope that Ed never stops performing with PJ...well..at least until he's too old and broken to pick up the mic.

    : )

    Matt
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    ...if so, does anyone have a link to them ( pearljamlive.com, or any other source)?

    Mr. B
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • Super Vedder
    Super Vedder Posts: 1,531
    MarylandTeacher wrote:
    ...if so, does anyone have a link to them ( pearljamlive.com, or any other source)?

    Mr. B

    Pistoia 06 is a classic, im not gonna try and give some great explanation as to the meanings as i feel i wouldnt do it justice, just get it an give it a listen :)
    Black, the greatest without a doubt........
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    Super Vedder wrote:
    Pistoia 06 is a classic, im not gonna try and give some great explanation as to the meanings as i feel i wouldnt do it justice, just get it an give it a listen :)


    I'll check out Pistoia '06 as soon as possible....thanks for the tip.

    Mr. B
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • nurka
    nurka Posts: 11
    As a 31 yr old woman, wife and mother of 4, currently. Having heard this song first when I was about 15-16, I think. The way I feel when I hear this song is as strong, or stronger as the years go by. I felt a connection to the song when I heard it first,a strong one at that. As I felt the song was describing in a few simple words "me" and my "pain".

    For me though its not as if ,that I still feel for anyone of my losses now the same way I felt for them then, but its these losses that have molded me into the individual that I am today, but while going through the losses i felt a terrible pain. At those times, the times of difficulty I could'nt imagine life with what was happening.

    We grieve and slowly time heals the wound, and many wounds for that matter. I've learned through my losses the consequences that happen from them.

    I'm trying to say here that everytime "he" sings this song he relives the time that it was written in,..the pain ,..the moment. The tags added later is what he feels while reliving the moment. And I'm sure being that hes a father now... and I'm saying this as I feel as a mother... that his main love in life must be his child. Seeing that it had to be this way.

    We learn responsibility, understanding and wisdom through our difficulties. Our children also become the love of our lives. Maybe when reliving the moments while singing "black" he no longer feels the pain once felt because of his current love or situation, and is what he, feels that its better. Yet still is able to somewhat still feel for the pain once felt.

    We will always "wonder what could have been" that you can't help... being that we are human. Even though I love my husband and children and now can't imagine life any other way, but "wonder" sometimes and say to myself, but then "this" couldn't be...i love "this" more ... more then me.

    As we grow older we also realise that "my" pain is so minute compared to that of the world. That our pain is so trivial compared to whats happening in the world. Not that I am belittling the pain that was once felt because that was the world at the time... I'm saying time has moved the pain onto bigger issues of the world... the world that will be passed to our children= "my love".


    As for wondering about who "she" is... thats what makes it special... the song is HIS not HERS. I felt with his pain not hers so I don't really "wonder" about her as she probably doesn't care.

    Just my opinion, love this song sooooooo much!
    Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight
    I am fuel, you are friends, we got the means to make amends
    I am lost, I'm no guide, but I'm by your side
    I am right by your side... PJ
  • CopTheRiotAct
    CopTheRiotAct Posts: 953
    MarylandTeacher wrote:
    I'll check out Pistoia '06 as soon as possible....thanks for the tip.

    Mr. B
    The Pistoia tag was the one i was going to reccomend when i started to read this thread..

    I Think it is one of the many "we didnt belong" tags!
    ...The Moon is Rollin' Round....
  • mAci
    mAci Posts: 49
    i like a vienna 06 tag,is very special, but it has nothing to do with this topic i guess:)but check it its nice;)
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    mAci wrote:
    i like a vienna 06 tag,is very special, but it has nothing to do with this topic i guess:)but check it its nice;)


    I'll check it out

    Mr. B
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • GetALife
    GetALife Posts: 563
    --> Marseille 2006: "We don't belong together"

    --> Melbourne 2006 (III - I guess): "We didn't belong together", after he pleases "Somebody help me (please)" and "Pull me up"...

    Does anyone know about the earliest crowd-is-taking-over the background chant of the end?

    My first show was in Hamburg 2000 and I thought that this was the earliest one ...crowd is making "dut dut dut..." and Eddies singing very quietly "We belong together" and introduces the next song with (grammatically challenging) "The next song is called 'Insignificance' which that last moment wasn't".
    But a few days ago I read in one forum about Lisbon(?) 1996 where the crowd is taking it over too...

    "Somebody help me!" ;)

    Chris,
    Oldenburg, Germany
    2000: Hamburg
    2006: Berlin
    2007: Munich * Düsseldorf
    2009: Berlin * Manchester * London
    2010: Dublin * Belfast * Berlin
    2012: Amsterdam I & II * Berlin I & II * Stockholm * Oslo * Copenhagen
    EV 2012: Amsterdam I & II
    2014: Amsterdam I & II * Milan * Trieste * Vienna * Berlin
    EV 2017: Berlin
    2018: Amsterdam I & II * Prague * Krakow * Berlin
    2022: Berlin- Vienna - Prague - Amsterdam I - Amsterdam II #
    2024: Berlin I & II

    ~~~

    “It is curious that while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place.”
    ― David Benatar - Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence


  • GetALife
    GetALife Posts: 563
    ...to mention Santa Barbara 2006:

    "(It) take(s) the pain away
    when I hear you say
    du du dut dut du du duu..."
    2000: Hamburg
    2006: Berlin
    2007: Munich * Düsseldorf
    2009: Berlin * Manchester * London
    2010: Dublin * Belfast * Berlin
    2012: Amsterdam I & II * Berlin I & II * Stockholm * Oslo * Copenhagen
    EV 2012: Amsterdam I & II
    2014: Amsterdam I & II * Milan * Trieste * Vienna * Berlin
    EV 2017: Berlin
    2018: Amsterdam I & II * Prague * Krakow * Berlin
    2022: Berlin- Vienna - Prague - Amsterdam I - Amsterdam II #
    2024: Berlin I & II

    ~~~

    “It is curious that while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place.”
    ― David Benatar - Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence


  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    GetALife wrote:
    --> Marseille 2006: "We don't belong together"

    --> Melbourne 2006 (III - I guess): "We didn't belong together", after he pleases "Somebody help me (please)" and "Pull me up"...

    Does anyone know about the earliest crowd-is-taking-over the background chant of the end?

    My first show was in Hamburg 2000 and I thought that this was the earliest one ...crowd is making "dut dut dut..." and Eddies singing very quietly "We belong together" and introduces the next song with (grammatically challenging) "The next song is called 'Insignificance' which that last moment wasn't".
    But a few days ago I read in one forum about Lisbon(?) 1996 where the crowd is taking it over too...

    "Somebody help me!" ;)

    Chris,
    Oldenburg, Germany


    Ahhhh... that was my second show ever...I think this moment was one of the best of my life. The entire arena was just buzzing by itself like magic...eddie was just whispering....and the crowd kept goinng. I havent seen that same energy during Black since. (now up to 43 shows)
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    Get a Life...I will have to DL those tags from http://www.pearljamlive.com

    Talk about a great find! :cool:

    MB

    GetALife wrote:
    --> Marseille 2006: "We don't belong together"

    --> Melbourne 2006 (III - I guess): "We didn't belong together", after he pleases "Somebody help me (please)" and "Pull me up"...

    Does anyone know about the earliest crowd-is-taking-over the background chant of the end?

    My first show was in Hamburg 2000 and I thought that this was the earliest one ...crowd is making "dut dut dut..." and Eddies singing very quietly "We belong together" and introduces the next song with (grammatically challenging) "The next song is called 'Insignificance' which that last moment wasn't".
    But a few days ago I read in one forum about Lisbon(?) 1996 where the crowd is taking it over too...

    "Somebody help me!" ;)

    Chris,
    Oldenburg, Germany
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    I am ashamed to admit it, but I have never been to a PJ show....talk about blasphemy! :o
    Tackalac wrote:
    Ahhhh... that was my second show ever...I think this moment was one of the best of my life. The entire arena was just buzzing by itself like magic...eddie was just whispering....and the crowd kept goinng. I havent seen that same energy during Black since. (now up to 43 shows)
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    .....I have to admit that I am nearly speechless after having read your work. It's as if you were in my head when you wrote it...wow...just....wow.

    Matthew

    nurka wrote:
    As a 31 yr old woman, wife and mother of 4, currently. Having heard this song first when I was about 15-16, I think. The way I feel when I hear this song is as strong, or stronger as the years go by. I felt a connection to the song when I heard it first,a strong one at that. As I felt the song was describing in a few simple words "me" and my "pain".

    For me though its not as if ,that I still feel for anyone of my losses now the same way I felt for them then, but its these losses that have molded me into the individual that I am today, but while going through the losses i felt a terrible pain. At those times, the times of difficulty I could'nt imagine life with what was happening.

    We grieve and slowly time heals the wound, and many wounds for that matter. I've learned through my losses the consequences that happen from them.

    I'm trying to say here that everytime "he" sings this song he relives the time that it was written in,..the pain ,..the moment. The tags added later is what he feels while reliving the moment. And I'm sure being that hes a father now... and I'm saying this as I feel as a mother... that his main love in life must be his child. Seeing that it had to be this way.

    We learn responsibility, understanding and wisdom through our difficulties. Our children also become the love of our lives. Maybe when reliving the moments while singing "black" he no longer feels the pain once felt because of his current love or situation, and is what he, feels that its better. Yet still is able to somewhat still feel for the pain once felt.

    We will always "wonder what could have been" that you can't help... being that we are human. Even though I love my husband and children and now can't imagine life any other way, but "wonder" sometimes and say to myself, but then "this" couldn't be...i love "this" more ... more then me.

    As we grow older we also realise that "my" pain is so minute compared to that of the world. That our pain is so trivial compared to whats happening in the world. Not that I am belittling the pain that was once felt because that was the world at the time... I'm saying time has moved the pain onto bigger issues of the world... the world that will be passed to our children= "my love".


    As for wondering about who "she" is... thats what makes it special... the song is HIS not HERS. I felt with his pain not hers so I don't really "wonder" about her as she probably doesn't care.

    Just my opinion, love this song sooooooo much!
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • nurka
    nurka Posts: 11
    MarylandTeacher wrote:
    .....I have to admit that I am nearly speechless after having read your work. It's as if you were in my head when you wrote it...wow...just....wow.

    Matthew

    I feel honored, Thanks
    Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight
    I am fuel, you are friends, we got the means to make amends
    I am lost, I'm no guide, but I'm by your side
    I am right by your side... PJ
  • MarylandTeacher
    MarylandTeacher Posts: 233
    nurka wrote:
    I feel honored, Thanks


    You really did blow me away with how close your thinking was to mine....it was as if you were with me when I wrote my "Open Letter to Mr. Vedder."

    Matthew
    Dalai Lama—To say that humility is an essential ingredient in our pursuit of spiritual transformation may seem to be at odds with what I have said about the need for confidence. But there is clearly a distinction to be made between valid confidence or self-esteem, and conceit - which we can describe as an inflated sense of importance, grounded in a false image of self.
  • fluttergirlie
    fluttergirlie Posts: 217
    GetALife wrote:
    --> Marseille 2006: "We don't belong together"

    --> Melbourne 2006 (III - I guess): "We didn't belong together", after he pleases "Somebody help me (please)" and "Pull me up"...

    Does anyone know about the earliest crowd-is-taking-over the background chant of the end?

    My first show was in Hamburg 2000 and I thought that this was the earliest one ...crowd is making "dut dut dut..." and Eddies singing very quietly "We belong together" and introduces the next song with (grammatically challenging) "The next song is called 'Insignificance' which that last moment wasn't".
    But a few days ago I read in one forum about Lisbon(?) 1996 where the crowd is taking it over too...

    "Somebody help me!" ;)

    Chris,
    Oldenburg, Germany

    It happened at my first PJ show in Dublin last year, Eddie seemed genuinely moved as the crowd went on for several minutes after the song had ended, it actually sent a bit of a chill up my spine when Ed said 'there it is, the beauty of Ireland right there' when it eventually faded out :cool:
    Dublin - August 23rd 2006
    Wembley - June 18th 2007
    Hopefully many more to come...

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