Florida Condo Collapse

cincybearcat

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

All those people had to leave their belongings in the building and then demoed it...  Man that sucks.

This will be one hell of a lawsuit.

Yeah I imagine there was a lot of value lost in jewelry, clothing etc.
Some likely even had decent amounts of cash in their units.....impossible to put on an insurance claim.

they had residents compile a list of irreplaceable items, so when the clean up occured they could match found items to a resident.

imperfect to be sure, but it IS something.

They had people set up explosives on the building, they could have found items in rooms and brought them out?

Moot point now I guess.

being unsure of stability NO ONE was allowed on upper floors. there was major concern with column drilling to set explosive charges, so no , other than clearing the floors of pets and people early on, this is the best and safest  they could do.

Yeah I really don’t get people worried about the possessions. It wasn’t safe for people to be in there. Imagine they went in to get some belongings for people and 1 person died? What would the comments be then?

tempo_n_groove

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

All those people had to leave their belongings in the building and then demoed it...  Man that sucks.

This will be one hell of a lawsuit.

Yeah I imagine there was a lot of value lost in jewelry, clothing etc.
Some likely even had decent amounts of cash in their units.....impossible to put on an insurance claim.

they had residents compile a list of irreplaceable items, so when the clean up occured they could match found items to a resident.

imperfect to be sure, but it IS something.

They had people set up explosives on the building, they could have found items in rooms and brought them out?

Moot point now I guess.

being unsure of stability NO ONE was allowed on upper floors. there was major concern with column drilling to set explosive charges, so no , other than clearing the floors of pets and people early on, this is the best and safest  they could do.

Yeah I really don’t get people worried about the possessions. It wasn’t safe for people to be in there. Imagine they went in to get some belongings for people and 1 person died? What would the comments be then?

If I had things that couldn't be replaced and I had the opportunity to retrieve them and knew the risk, I would.  I've known other people to do the same.

You jump out of a plane you know the risk.  Obviously not the same thing but people are willing to risk their lives for irreplaceable items.

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

All those people had to leave their belongings in the building and then demoed it...  Man that sucks.

This will be one hell of a lawsuit.

Yeah I imagine there was a lot of value lost in jewelry, clothing etc.
Some likely even had decent amounts of cash in their units.....impossible to put on an insurance claim.

they had residents compile a list of irreplaceable items, so when the clean up occured they could match found items to a resident.

imperfect to be sure, but it IS something.

They had people set up explosives on the building, they could have found items in rooms and brought them out?

Moot point now I guess.

being unsure of stability NO ONE was allowed on upper floors. there was major concern with column drilling to set explosive charges, so no , other than clearing the floors of pets and people early on, this is the best and safest  they could do.

I was curious on how they did demo the building for explosives as it can be very involved and was done so quickly.

There have been 3 other buildings evacuated now in Florida for fears of colapsing.

the company used and some of their projects were shown earlier in the thread.

as for the evacuations, maybe this motivates both city officials and condo owners to not fuck around with repairs and the reports used to determine what needs done.

I wasn't interested in any demo company, I missed that though.

It's amazing that all of a sudden these buildings are being evacuated/condemned.  People are finally doing their jobs.  I'd investigate all the new ones and why nothing was done prior too.

cincybearcat

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

All those people had to leave their belongings in the building and then demoed it...  Man that sucks.

This will be one hell of a lawsuit.

Yeah I imagine there was a lot of value lost in jewelry, clothing etc.
Some likely even had decent amounts of cash in their units.....impossible to put on an insurance claim.

they had residents compile a list of irreplaceable items, so when the clean up occured they could match found items to a resident.

imperfect to be sure, but it IS something.

They had people set up explosives on the building, they could have found items in rooms and brought them out?

Moot point now I guess.

being unsure of stability NO ONE was allowed on upper floors. there was major concern with column drilling to set explosive charges, so no , other than clearing the floors of pets and people early on, this is the best and safest  they could do.

Yeah I really don’t get people worried about the possessions. It wasn’t safe for people to be in there. Imagine they went in to get some belongings for people and 1 person died? What would the comments be then?

If I had things that couldn't be replaced and I had the opportunity to retrieve them and knew the risk, I would.  I've known other people to do the same.

You jump out of a plane you know the risk.  Obviously not the same thing but people are willing to risk their lives for irreplaceable items.

A bit of a difference between a known risk with a known countermeasure (skydiving - parachute).  And a lot of unknown risks with no good countermeasures. 

And if they let people in to get things and 1 person died...someone is lawyering up.  Sometimes people have to be protected against themselves.  But you are right, people make all kinds of bad choices each and every day.

What could be in there that is worth risking your life for? 

tempo_n_groove

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

All those people had to leave their belongings in the building and then demoed it...  Man that sucks.

This will be one hell of a lawsuit.

Yeah I imagine there was a lot of value lost in jewelry, clothing etc.
Some likely even had decent amounts of cash in their units.....impossible to put on an insurance claim.

they had residents compile a list of irreplaceable items, so when the clean up occured they could match found items to a resident.

imperfect to be sure, but it IS something.

They had people set up explosives on the building, they could have found items in rooms and brought them out?

Moot point now I guess.

being unsure of stability NO ONE was allowed on upper floors. there was major concern with column drilling to set explosive charges, so no , other than clearing the floors of pets and people early on, this is the best and safest  they could do.

Yeah I really don’t get people worried about the possessions. It wasn’t safe for people to be in there. Imagine they went in to get some belongings for people and 1 person died? What would the comments be then?

If I had things that couldn't be replaced and I had the opportunity to retrieve them and knew the risk, I would.  I've known other people to do the same.

You jump out of a plane you know the risk.  Obviously not the same thing but people are willing to risk their lives for irreplaceable items.

A bit of a difference between a known risk with a known countermeasure (skydiving - parachute).  And a lot of unknown risks with no good countermeasures. 

And if they let people in to get things and 1 person died...someone is lawyering up.  Sometimes people have to be protected against themselves.  But you are right, people make all kinds of bad choices each and every day.

What could be in there that is worth risking your life for? 

Pictures of family members that aren't in the cloud.  A medal perhaps.  Wedding ring.  Family heirloom.

All to me are worth the risk.

I would think that you could of had a drone do this nowadays?  Those bomb retrieving robots perhaps?

Poncier

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

All those people had to leave their belongings in the building and then demoed it...  Man that sucks.

This will be one hell of a lawsuit.

Yeah I imagine there was a lot of value lost in jewelry, clothing etc.
Some likely even had decent amounts of cash in their units.....impossible to put on an insurance claim.

they had residents compile a list of irreplaceable items, so when the clean up occured they could match found items to a resident.

imperfect to be sure, but it IS something.

They had people set up explosives on the building, they could have found items in rooms and brought them out?

Moot point now I guess.

being unsure of stability NO ONE was allowed on upper floors. there was major concern with column drilling to set explosive charges, so no , other than clearing the floors of pets and people early on, this is the best and safest  they could do.

Yeah I really don’t get people worried about the possessions. It wasn’t safe for people to be in there. Imagine they went in to get some belongings for people and 1 person died? What would the comments be then?

If I had things that couldn't be replaced and I had the opportunity to retrieve them and knew the risk, I would.  I've known other people to do the same.

You jump out of a plane you know the risk.  Obviously not the same thing but people are willing to risk their lives for irreplaceable items.

A bit of a difference between a known risk with a known countermeasure (skydiving - parachute).  And a lot of unknown risks with no good countermeasures. 

And if they let people in to get things and 1 person died...someone is lawyering up.  Sometimes people have to be protected against themselves.  But you are right, people make all kinds of bad choices each and every day.

What could be in there that is worth risking your life for? 

Pictures of family members that aren't in the cloud.  A medal perhaps.  Wedding ring.  Family heirloom.

All to me are worth the risk.

I would think that you could of had a drone do this nowadays?  Those bomb retrieving robots perhaps?

Drone probably couldn't access units, assuming folks closed/locked their doors upon evacuation.
And stuff is likely in jewelry boxes, or other things in a box in a closet, some folks may have had small safes. Unfortunately don't think drones and robots would have been feasible.
Its just a sad situation all around.

tempo_n_groove

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Poncier said:

tempo_n_groove said:

All those people had to leave their belongings in the building and then demoed it...  Man that sucks.

This will be one hell of a lawsuit.

Yeah I imagine there was a lot of value lost in jewelry, clothing etc.
Some likely even had decent amounts of cash in their units.....impossible to put on an insurance claim.

they had residents compile a list of irreplaceable items, so when the clean up occured they could match found items to a resident.

imperfect to be sure, but it IS something.

They had people set up explosives on the building, they could have found items in rooms and brought them out?

Moot point now I guess.

being unsure of stability NO ONE was allowed on upper floors. there was major concern with column drilling to set explosive charges, so no , other than clearing the floors of pets and people early on, this is the best and safest  they could do.

Yeah I really don’t get people worried about the possessions. It wasn’t safe for people to be in there. Imagine they went in to get some belongings for people and 1 person died? What would the comments be then?

If I had things that couldn't be replaced and I had the opportunity to retrieve them and knew the risk, I would.  I've known other people to do the same.

You jump out of a plane you know the risk.  Obviously not the same thing but people are willing to risk their lives for irreplaceable items.

A bit of a difference between a known risk with a known countermeasure (skydiving - parachute).  And a lot of unknown risks with no good countermeasures. 

And if they let people in to get things and 1 person died...someone is lawyering up.  Sometimes people have to be protected against themselves.  But you are right, people make all kinds of bad choices each and every day.

What could be in there that is worth risking your life for? 

Pictures of family members that aren't in the cloud.  A medal perhaps.  Wedding ring.  Family heirloom.

All to me are worth the risk.

I would think that you could of had a drone do this nowadays?  Those bomb retrieving robots perhaps?

Drone probably couldn't access units, assuming folks closed/locked their doors upon evacuation.
And stuff is likely in jewelry boxes, or other things in a box in a closet, some folks may have had small safes. Unfortunately don't think drones and robots would have been feasible.
Its just a sad situation all around.

They needed Koto and Poto.

Poncier

F Me In The Brain

Hahaha - Beastmaster references?

tempo_n_groove

F Me In The Brain said:

Hahaha - Beastmaster references?

Correct!

Smellyman

I will never understand attachment to things.

tempo_n_groove

Smellyman said:

I will never understand attachment to things.

At least understand empathy then.

mickeyrat

tempo_n_groove said:

Smellyman said:

I will never understand attachment to things.

At least understand empathy then.

simple statement. I didnt read any judgement in that.

F Me In The Brain

I agree -- while I certainly understand feeling loss and that everyone has different feelings of attachment to different items, life is something I value at 10000000000x  more than any "things" and just couldn't accept taking a risk where I have absolutely no idea nor control of all of the potential factors at work.

I would miss heirlooms, pictures, etc - but I would still be able to be a father to my son and a husband to my wife.

Feel horrible for all of the people who have to go through this at the same times as far worse for the people and those who loved the people who died in there.

mickeyrat

look what this largely preventable tragedy has spurred...

Surfside building collapse Building collapses Courts Miami Coronavirus pandemic

Review prompted by building collapse closes Miami courthouse

8 mins ago

MIAMI (AP) — The Miami-Dade County Courthouse will begin undergoing repairs immediately after a review, prompted by the deadly collapse of a nearby condominium building, found that safety concerns exist within the courthouse, officials said.

A joint statement from multiple leaders released late Friday said an engineer's report recommended floors 16 and above be closed to staff at the courthouse. The leaders decided all courthouse employees would go back to working from home.

The courthouse, a historic building completed in 1928, is where most civil cases are heard and contains some administrative offices. Separate courthouses for criminal, children's and family cases are not affected.

The statement said workers only recently returned to the building after working remotely due to the coronavirus pandemic. Court operations will go back to a remote format until the safety concerns are addressed. People with upcoming court proceedings scheduled to take place in person will be receiving a new notice with instructions, the statement said.

Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava, Circuit Court Chief Judge Nushin Sayfie and Clerk of Courts Harvey Ruvin released the statement.

Specific details about what repairs are needed were not disclosed. The courthouse was built in 1928 and added to the U.S. National Register of Historic Places in 1989, news outlets reported. The building has 28 floors.

Miami-Dade County is in the early stages of construction of a new civil courthouse, with plans to sell the historic building. Over the years it has been beset by leaks, mold and issues with its facade.

The building underwent a review following the collapse of Champlain Towers South in Surfside, which has left at least 79 people dead with 61 people unaccounted for.

Several other buildings have been reviewed to search for any structural concerns, and some — such as a condo building in North Miami Beach — have been evacuated.

The statement said the courthouse's basement would also undergo an inspection to determine whether additional repairs are needed.

mickeyrat

 

Tallahassee Florida Building collapses Surfside building collapse Local governments

Officials across Florida rethink condo inspection policies

By BRENDAN FARRINGTON

Today

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — Across Florida, people living in the thousands of condominiums rising above the state’s 1,350 miles of coastline wonder if the building collapse in Surfside could happen to their home as state and local officials discuss what they can do to make sure it doesn't.

Although building collapses are rare, local governments are looking at whether they need to adopt new inspection policies — the vast majority of counties don't require reinspection of a building once it's completed.

“We inspect bridges every two years and yet a high-rise can go up right on the coast and it’s inspected at the time it’s built and never again,” said Volusia County Chair Jeff Brower, who said residents have sent photos of damaged buildings. “It’s kind of a wake-up call, and some of the pictures I have seen of our own structures are scary.”

He's in contact with the governor's office on the issue but thinks acting locally will be quicker. One idea is reinspecting new buildings after 10 years and, depending on what's found, inspecting again another decade later.

Miami-Dade County, where the 40-year-old Champlain Towers South partially collapsed last month, requires buildings to be recertified as safe every 40 years and every 10 years after that.

“We definitely have to have inspection of the infrastructure of these buildings,” Brower said. “They're not falling all over the place, but we don't want even one more like the tragedy at Surfside.”

The collapse prompted the county — as well as cities and towns within it — to take a closer look at the recertification rules already in place. One municipality, North Miami Beach has evacuated the nearly 50-year-old Crestview Towers and won't allow residents back in until required repairs have been completed. The county announced late Friday that the 28-story Miami-Dade County Courthouse will begin undergoing repairs immediately because of safety concerns found during a review prompted by the deadly collapse of a nearby condominium building

Florida’s beachfront high-rises take a beating from storms, saltwater and sea air, which can wear down concrete and rust rebar. There isn’t a mile of Florida’s coastline that hasn’t been affected in one way or another by hurricanes and tropical storms in the past 40 years — with some areas taking multiple hits.

Although construction standards improved when statewide building codes were strengthened in the 1980s, the quality before then was often questionable, said Brett Turner, a project manager in southwest Florida who has been in the construction industry for 45 years.

“Up until the late ’80s, there virtually were no inspections. Our codes were horrible. So any building or house that was built prior to 1986 is suspect,” Turner said. “It was the Wild West — whatever you could get away with if you were making a buck.”

Turner, who previously specialized in repairing older buildings, said he’s seen very dangerous damage in Florida buildings. “I’m surprised that (Surfside) is the first one that I’ve seen this happen to," he said. "I’m not surprised it happened; I’m surprised it’s the first one.”

In Boca Raton, officials are working quickly to establish a recertification process for older buildings, Councilman Andy Thomson said.

“We have a number of high-rise condos on the beach, particularly. And I think that’s what causes the most heartburn for people because of the potential of corrosion due to saltwater,” Thomson said.

Steven Rogers lives at the Chalfonte condominiums in Boca Raton, where neither the city nor Palm Beach County requires building recertification. But Rogers, who was elected the condominium association president, said they're not waiting for either to set a policy.

The association hired engineers two years ago to inspect the two 22-story towers built in the late 1970s on the Atlantic Ocean. Rogers said he called engineers again after the Surfside collapse and told them he wants an inspection policy that’s more stringent than Miami-Dade’s. The association is now making repairs with plans to do so every year.

“Do inspections that you feel are necessary, not what the city or the state feels is necessary,” Rogers said. “It’s going to take time for the city or the state to come out with new laws, and in that time, we have to move. We have to do the right things now.”

How the state will act could depend a lot on what's learned about the Surfside collapse, Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis said at a news conference.

“We want to be able to identify, why did this happen? Is this something that was unique to this building?" DeSantis said. "Is it something that buildings of that age that would have implications beyond that, whether southern Florida or the entire state of Florida? I think we need to get those definitive answers.”

Democratic state Sen. Jason Pizzo, who represents Surfside, has indicated he’ll seek legislation to address condominium inspections when lawmakers return to Tallahassee in January.

“We’re going to be pushing for a few new provisions in FL condo law (like we have for the last three years). In the interim, condo associations must comply with existing laws and serious structural deficiencies, so our residents are not uprooted and forced to sleep in shelters,” Pizzo recently tweeted.

Escambia County, which includes Pensacola Beach, has no recertification program for older high-rises, and Building Services Director Tim Tolbert said the area will probably wait to see if a statewide code is enacted.

“I think it will be more enforceable that way,” Tolbert said. “Even if that’s a requirement and an association refuses to do anything, what do you do? If you go to condemn the building, you’re talking about major lawsuits. It’s just going to be tough to enforce even if it’s a state requirement.”

___

Associated Press writer Freida Frisaro in Fort Lauderdale contributed to this report.

mickeyrat

up to 90 recovered bodies now....