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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Reason 1563 why not to move to Florida…
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
    The inspection showed critical areas of repair that were consistent with a previous inspection. After the first one , inadequate repairs were made and it seems that as of now, without a full analysis of the collapse the inspectors were on the money for the needed repairs. Owners just happened to focus on the roof. It seems a leaky pool liner is one of the culprits .
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    nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 7,884
    Reason 1563 why not to move to Florida…
    Lol. What 
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    nicknyr15 said:
    Reason 1563 why not to move to Florida…
    Lol. What 
    Between recently inspected building collapsing, possibly standing in your living room and getting swallowed by the earth and the old people, holy fuck…that’s the number 1 reason…lol
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    edited June 2021
    People always know when this happens. Somebody knew that building was going to fail (inspectors)
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,724
    nicknyr15 said:
    Reason 1563 why not to move to Florida…
    Lol. What 
    Between recently inspected building collapsing, possibly standing in your living room and getting swallowed by the earth and the old people, holy fuck…that’s the number 1 reason…lol
    Don’t forget about the zombie face chewers. And the alligators.
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
     
    Before building collapse, $9 million in repairs needed
    By CURT ANDERSON and BERNARD CONDON
    Today

    ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) — Nearly three years before an oceanfront building collapsed near Miami, an engineering firm estimated that major repairs the building needed would cost more than $9 million, according to newly released emails.

    The email from the firm of Morabito Consultants was among a series of documents released by the city of Surfside as rescue efforts continued at the site of the collapsed building, where more than 150 people remained unaccounted for. At least five people were killed in the collapse.

    The release of the 2018 cost estimate followed the earlier publication of another document from the firm showing the ground-floor pool deck of the building was resting on a concrete slab that had “major structural damage” and needed to be extensively repaired. That report also uncovered “abundant cracking and spalling” of concrete columns, beams and walls in the parking garage.

    The report did not warn of imminent danger from the damage, and it is unclear if any of the damage observed was responsible for the collapse of Champlain Towers South.

    The cost estimate showed that repairs across the entire building would cost more than $9.1 million, with the cost of work at the garage, entrance and pool deck alone accounting for more than $3.8 million. The work had not been done by the time the building collapsed.

    The earlier report said the waterproofing under the pool deck had failed and had been improperly laid flat instead of sloped, preventing water from draining off.

    “The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas. Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” the report said.

    The firm recommended that the damaged slabs be replaced in what would be a major repair.

    Some of the damage to the concrete in the parking garage was minor, while other columns had exposed and deteriorating rebar. It also noted that many of the building’s previous attempts to fix the columns and other damage with epoxy were marred by poor workmanship and were failing.

    Beneath the pool deck “where the slab had been epoxy-injected, new cracks were radiating from the originally repaired cracks,” the report said.

    These were all problems that should have been dealt with quickly, said Gregg Schlesinger, an attorney specializing in construction defects and a former construction project engineer.

    “The building speaks to us. It is telling us we have a serious problem,” Schlesinger said in a telephone interview Saturday about the new documents. “They (building managers) kicked the can down the road. The maintenance was improper. These were all red flags that needed to be addressed. They weren’t.”

    In a statement Saturday, Morabito Consultants confirmed its report “detailed significant cracks and breaks in the concrete, which required repairs to ensure the safety of the residents and the public.”

    The firm said it was hired again in June 2020 by Champlain Towers South to begin the 40-year recertification process that would detail what work needed to be done.

    “At the time of the building collapse, roof repairs were under way, but concrete restoration had not yet begun,” the statement said.

    Abi Aghayere, a Drexel University engineering researcher, said the extent of the damage shown in the engineering report was notable. In addition to possible problems under the pool, he said several areas above the entrance drive showing signs of deterioration were worrisome and should have been repaired immediately.

    “Were the supporting members deteriorated to the extent that a critical structural element or their connections failed leading to progressive collapse?” he wrote in an email to the AP after reviewing the report. “Were there other areas in the structure that were badly deteriorated and unnoticed?”

    The building was in the midst of its 40-year recertification process, which requires detailed structural and electrical inspections. In an interview Friday, Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said he wasn’t sure if the inspection had been completed, but he said it may contain vital clues.

    “It should have been a very straightforward thing,” Burkett said. “Buildings in America do not just fall down like this. There is a reason. We need to find out what that reason is.”

    The 12-story tower’s collapse Thursday morning has also raised questions over whether other similar buildings are in danger.

    “This is a wake-up call for folks on the beach,” Schlesinger said. “The scary portion is the other buildings. You think this is unique? No.”

    Details of the building’s 40-year recertification inspection will be made public once they are completed, Surfside Town Clerk Sandra McCready said in an email.

    The collapse is already drawing lawsuits, including one filed hours after the collapse by attorney Brad Sohn against the condo’s homeowners association seeking damages for negligence and other reasons for all of the tower’s residents.

    The association, the lawsuit contends, “could have prevented the collapse of Champlain Towers South through the exercise of ordinary care, safety measures and oversight.”

    An attorney for the association, Ken Direktor, did not respond to an email requesting comment.

    _____

    Condon reported from New York. Associated Press writer Freida Frisaro in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, contributed to this story.


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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
     
    Families frustrated at slow pace of condo rescue
    By TERRY SPENCER and RUSS BYNUM
    17 mins ago

    SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) — Rescuers digging through the rubble of a Florida beachfront condo sought to reassure families that they were doing as much as possible to find missing loved ones, but the crews said they needed to work carefully for the best chance of uncovering survivors four days after the collapse.

    As the death rose Sunday to nine, relatives were growing increasingly desperate for news and worried about the slow progress and dwindling hopes. Some were taken by bus to a location near the site after families frustrated with the pace of rescue efforts demanded to visit the scene.

    “My daughter is 26 years old, in perfect health. She could make it out of there,” one mother told rescuers during a Saturday meeting with family members. A video of the meeting was posted by Instagram user Abigail Pereira.

    “It’s not enough,” continued the mother, who was among relatives who pushed authorities to bring in experts from other countries to help. “Imagine if your children were in there.”

    More than 150 people remain unaccounted for in Surfside, and authorities and loved ones fear the toll will go much higher.

    Scores of rescue workers remained on the massive pile of rubble, searching for survivors but so far only finding bodies and human remains. No one has been pulled alive from the pile since hours after the collapse on Thursday.

    In a meeting with families on Saturday evening, people moaned and wept as Miami Dade Assistant Fire Chief Raide Jadallah explained why he could not answer their repeated questions about how many victims they had found.

    “It’s not necessarily that we’re finding victims, OK? We’re finding human remains,” Jadallah said, according to the video posted on Instagram.

    Every time crews find remains, they clean the area and remove the remains. They work with a rabbi to ensure any religious rituals are done properly, Jadallah said.

    “So the question is, is why is things taking so long?” he said, “What we’re doing is making sure that everything is followed to a ‘T.’”

    Authorities said their efforts are still a search-and-rescue operation. Alan Cominsky, chief of the Miami-Dade Fire Rescue Department, said they are holding out hope of finding someone alive, but they must be slow and methodical.

    “The debris field is scattered throughout, and it’s compact, extremely compact,” he said.

    Debris must be stabilized and shored up as they go.

    “If there is a void space, we want to make sure we’re given every possibility of a survivor. That’s why we can’t just go in and move things erratically, because that’s going to have the worst outcome possible,” he said.

    So far, he said, they have not come across any voids.

    A fire in the rubble pile slowed efforts earlier in the weekend, but Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said it was suppressed Saturday.

    She said six to eight teams are actively searching the pile at any given time, with hundreds of team members on standby ready to rotate in. She said teams have worked around the clock since Thursday, and there was no lack of personnel.

    Teams are also working with engineers and sonar to make sure the rescuers are safe.

    “We need to be sure that the pile does not fall on them. It does not fall on any possible survivors and we are diligently pursuing that as we do our work,” she said.

    Crews spent the night digging a trench that stretches 125 feet, 20 feet across and 40 feet deep, which, she said, allowed them to find more bodies and human remains.

    Earl Tilton, who runs a search-and-rescue consulting firm in North Carolina, said the rescuers in Miami-Dade County were doing an “outstanding job.” Rushing into the rubble without careful planning and execution would injure or kill rescuers and the people they are trying save, said Tilton, who runs Lodestar Professional Services in Hendersonville, N.C.

    “I understand the families’ concerns on this. If it was my family member, I would want everyone in there pulling rubble away as fast as humanly possible,” Tilton said. “But moving the wrong piece of debris at the wrong time could cause it to fall on them and crush them.”

    During past urban rescues, rescuers have found survivors as long as a week past the initial catastrophe, Tilton said.

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis praised the search teams as being “some of the best in the business.”

    “I’d hope that none of these things would ever happen anywhere, but if something like this happens, the people you would want are Miami-Dade search and rescue," DeSantis said during a Sunday news conference. "These teams have gone all over the world. These are the people that you want. And they’ve been there within minutes, and it’s been nonstop.”

    Authorities also sought to assure family members directly that that the rescuers were well qualified, telling them during a Saturday meeting that some rescuers had worked on search-and-rescue operations after the Oklahoma City bombing, at the World Trade Center after the 9/11 attacks and following the Haiti earthquake.

    After remains are found, they are sent to the medical examiner. Authorities are gathering DNA samples from family members to aid in identification. Late Saturday, four of the victims were identified as Stacie Dawn Fang, 54; Antonio Lozano, 83; Gladys Lozano, 79; and Manuel LaFont, 54.

    ___

    Associated Press writers around the United States contributed to this report.


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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    nicknyr15 said:
    Reason 1563 why not to move to Florida…
    Lol. What 
    Between recently inspected building collapsing, possibly standing in your living room and getting swallowed by the earth and the old people, holy fuck…that’s the number 1 reason…lol
    Don’t forget about the zombie face chewers. And the alligators.
    And old people with drivers licenses and guns…gee what can go wrong when gramps has dementia and a gun…
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,305
    Yeah, but that's because they can't find the other 150 bodies in the rubble yet. What a catastrophic disaster that was completely preventable. Between building on top of a marshy sink hole they failed to make the needed repairs because they didn't want to cough up the money. Sue the fuck out of the management company.

    This also needs to be a wake up call to those who want to live in environmentally unstable areas. City, county and state officials need to do a better job of regulating where they let developers build these unsustainable money pits.
    It's a hopeless situation...
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,150
    I first thought this was a sinkhole and obviously it’s not.

    The building owners and the inspectors that didn’t condemn the building need to be brought up on charges.
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
     
    Before building collapse, $9M+ in repairs needed
    By CURT ANDERSON and BERNARD CONDON
    Yesterday

    Owners of units in a Florida oceanfront condo building that collapsed with deadly consequences were just days away from a deadline to start making steep payments toward more than $9 million in major repairs that had been recommended nearly three years earlier.

    That cost estimate, from the Morabito Consultants engineering firm in 2018, meant owners at Champlain Towers South were facing payments of anywhere from $80,000 for a one-bedroom unit to $330,000 or so for a penthouse, to be paid all at once or in installments. Their first deadline was July 1.

    One resident whose apartment was spared, Adalberto Aguero, had just taken out a loan to cover his $80,000 bill.

    “I figured I would pay it off after they fixed the building. I didn’t want to pay it off before because you never know,” said Aguero, adding that he pulled paperwork to make the installment payments a day after Thursday’s collapse. “I said cancel everything.”

    An itemized bill sent by the condo board in April to owners of the building's 136 units showed that much of the planned work was in the pool area and the façade. Installing new pavers and waterproofing the pool deck and building entrance would cost $1.8 million, with another $1 million going to “structural repairs” and “planter landscaping,” according to a condo board email obtained by The Associated Press. A line item of “miscellaneous repairs” that included work on the garage was estimated to cost $280,000.

    Total costs assessed, including many items that appeared to be for aesthetic purpose: $15 million.

    Engineers and construction experts say the Morabito documents that focused just on the structural work make clear there were several major repairs that needed to be done as soon as possible. Other than some roof repairs, that work had not begun, officials said.

    The cost estimate emailed by Morabito Consultants to Surfside officials was among a series of documents released as rescue efforts continued at the site of the collapsed building, where more than 150 people remained unaccounted for. At least nine people were killed in the collapse, authorities said Sunday.

    Another 2018 Morabito report submitted to the city said waterproofing under the pool deck had failed and had been improperly laid flat instead of sloped, preventing water from draining off.

    “The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas. Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” the report said.

    The firm recommended that the damaged slabs be replaced in what would be a major repair.

    That came as news to Susana Alvarez, who lived on the 10th floor of the doomed tower and said a Surfside official assured residents in a 2018 meeting that there was no danger. It wasn't clear who that official was.

    “The Town of Surfside told us the building was not in bad shape. That is what they said,” Alvarez said on National Public Radio's Weekend Edition program. “No one ever told us that building was in such bad shape.”

    A daughter of Claudio Bonnefoy, a resident from Chile who is missing, said it appears that someone ignored key signals the building was in danger.

    “This is starting to make me angry because reports from years ago reporting serious structural damage to the building are little by little being known,” said the daughter, Pascale Bonnefoy. "It seems this was predictable because the technicians alerted (others about it) and nobody did anything.”

    The Morabito firm said in a statement that it was hired in June 2020 by Champlain Towers South to begin the 40-year recertification process required of all buildings in Miami-Dade County that reach that age. The Champlain building was constructed in 1981.

    “At the time of the building collapse, roof repairs were under way, but concrete restoration had not yet begun,” the statement said.

    An attorney for the Champlain Towers South condominium association, which was in charge of the repair work, did not immediately respond Sunday to an email seeking comment. Surfside officials also did not respond to an email seeking comment.

    A new batch of emails from building officials and condo board members that were made public Sunday has added to the mystery.

    In one email, a Surfside official praised the building's board for plans to start the 40-year recertification process early after attending a November 2018 meeting.

    “This particular building is not due to begin their forty year until 2021 but they have decided to start the process early which I wholeheartedly endorse and wish that this trend would catch on with other properties,” said Surfside Building Official Ross Prieto.

    A few months later, a board member wrote to Prieto that workers next door were digging “too close to our property, and we have concerns regarding the structure of our building.”

    Prieto wrote back to monitor a nearby fence, the building's pool and adjacent areas for damage.

    Surfside has hired Allyn Kilsheimer of KCE Structural Engineers to consult on the Champlain Towers disaster. Surfside officials say Kilsheimer has worked on numerous such cases, including the World Trade Center after the 9/11 attacks and the collapse of a pedestrian bridge at Florida International University.

    Stephanie Walkup, an engineering professor at Villanova University, said it will take time to pinpoint the cause — or series of causes — that brought down Champlain Towers South.

    “The ultimate cause of the collapse may have been related to design error, construction error, deterioration or other event,” Walkup said in an email.

    “We all want answers and engineers will want to learn from this collapse as we have others, but we want to make sure we have the right ones,” she added.

    _____

    Anderson reported from St. Petersburg, Florida, and Condon reported from New York.


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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
    I first thought this was a sinkhole and obviously it’s not.

    The building owners and the inspectors that didn’t condemn the building need to be brought up on charges.

    the "owners" are the residents themselves. Its a condo building. Therefore the condo board directs things. ultimately, its the condo owners who foot the bill for any and all repairs to the building.

    the inspectors have freely shared their findings. with both the city and news orgs.... it hasnt sounded like negligence on their part.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,150
    mickeyrat said:
    I first thought this was a sinkhole and obviously it’s not.

    The building owners and the inspectors that didn’t condemn the building need to be brought up on charges.

    the "owners" are the residents themselves. Its a condo building. Therefore the condo board directs things. ultimately, its the condo owners who foot the bill for any and all repairs to the building.

    the inspectors have freely shared their findings. with both the city and news orgs.... it hasnt sounded like negligence on their part.
    I thought it was a rented building.  So the Board then could be held responsible if there is negligence.  

    Buildings don't just fall down.  I'll be very interested to find out what actually caused this.  It could have been shitty concrete when it was first built and it finally gave way.

    The answer most likely won't be found for a few months
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    someone has fucked up…buildings don’t just collapse.

    im not sure how it works in Florida.  But in Ontario you own the condo unit and pay condo fees to a management 
    company that overseas the operation of the building…yes condo owners get a vote on maintenance and stuff…but like most people they rely on the advice of experts…but if the building is unstable and State officials knew and failed to condemn the building…then this on them…and in a state like Florida I would not be surprised the officials did not do their job…

    Too bad.  Likely 150 lives lost because of incompetent lazy fuckers…
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,724
    someone has fucked up…buildings don’t just collapse.

    im not sure how it works in Florida.  But in Ontario you own the condo unit and pay condo fees to a management 
    company that overseas the operation of the building…yes condo owners get a vote on maintenance and stuff…but like most people they rely on the advice of experts…but if the building is unstable and State officials knew and failed to condemn the building…then this on them…and in a state like Florida I would not be surprised the officials did not do their job…

    Too bad.  Likely 150 lives lost because of incompetent lazy fuckers…
    And greed.
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    someone has fucked up…buildings don’t just collapse.

    im not sure how it works in Florida.  But in Ontario you own the condo unit and pay condo fees to a management 
    company that overseas the operation of the building…yes condo owners get a vote on maintenance and stuff…but like most people they rely on the advice of experts…but if the building is unstable and State officials knew and failed to condemn the building…then this on them…and in a state like Florida I would not be surprised the officials did not do their job…

    Too bad.  Likely 150 lives lost because of incompetent lazy fuckers…
    And greed.
    That as well…might be the number 1 reason…and you always have to wonder if palms were greased at some point…
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
     
    Despite warning, town deemed condo building in 'good shape'
    By CURT ANDERSON
    2 hours ago

    Despite an engineer's warning of major structural problems, a town building official told board members their Florida high-rise condominium was in “very good shape” almost three years before it collapsed, according to minutes of that meeting released Monday.

    The Surfside official, Rosendo “Ross” Prieto was quoted as making those comments at a meeting of the Champlain Towers South board on Nov. 15, 2018. That was just over a month after engineering firm Morabito Consultants issued a report describing key flaws in the structure.

    The discussion with Prieto came as Champlain Towers was beginning to explore what work was needed under city and county ordinances for the building to meet a 40-year recertification that was to arrive in 2021.

    The board meeting minutes say that Prieto told them in 2018 the Morabito engineering report had collected the necessary information and “it appears the building is in very good shape.”

    A day later, Prieto told the then-town manager of Surfside he thought the meeting was a success and credited Champlain Towers with getting a good early start on the recertification process.

    “The response was very positive from everyone in the room,” Prieto wrote in the email, also released by town officials. “All the main concerns over their forty-year recertification process were addressed.”

    Yet there is no evidence any of the critical concrete structure work ever started, the documents show. Owners of the 136 units had been told earlier this year they would have to pay their share of a $15 million assessment — $9.1 million of which was major work — by July 1. That assessment ranged from about $80,000 for a one-bedroom unit to more than $330,000 for a penthouse.

    Prieto no longer works at Surfside and efforts to locate him Monday for comment were not immediately successful. Prieto previously told the Miami Herald he didn't remember getting the Morabito report and declined to comment on the November 2018 board meeting.

    The minutes were forwarded to Surfside officials on Sunday by an attorney for the board, according to the town.

    The Morabito report focused attention on the pool deck, which was found to have waterproofing underneath that had failed and had been laid flat instead of sloping to drain off water. This threatened not only the concrete slab under the pool but also other structural areas.

    “Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” said the report, which also cited “abundant cracking” in concrete columns and beams.

    While numerous theories have emerged, no definitive cause has been identified in Thursday's collapse of the 12-story Champlain Towers South building that left at least 10 people confirmed dead and 151 missing.

    One problem that surfaced back in 2019 involved work at another building adjacent to Champlain Towers South.

    “We are concerned that the construction next to (Champlain) is too close,” board member Mara Chouela wrote in an email to Prieto in January 2019. The construction work, she added, is “digging too close to our property and we have concerns regarding the structure of our building.”

    Prieto responded that Surfside didn't have an official role in that issue. “There is nothing for me to check. The best course of action is to have someone monitor the fence, pool and adjacent areas for damage or hire a consultant to monitor these areas,” he wrote.

    Champlain Towers South resident Steven Rosenthal, who lived on the seventh floor and escaped the collapse, said in a negligence lawsuit filed Sunday by his attorney Robert McKee that there were ample signs of danger.

    The building board, the lawsuit says, had warnings and other sources of information years ago indicating “the risk or potential indicators of severe building damage or collapse.”

    Rosenthal, the lawsuit adds, “lost his home. He lost his personal property obtained over the years. He has been forced into a life with no home or possessions.”

    The lawsuit is at least the second filed so far in the tower's collapse. It seeks unspecified damages.

    Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said during a news conference Monday that the minutes of the building board meeting were of some concern but did not elaborate. He said the town continues to gather documentation on the history of Champlain Towers South and inspections of its structural integrity, and is posting them online as they become available.

    “We will be 100% transparent,” Burkett said.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,724
    mickeyrat said:
     
    Despite warning, town deemed condo building in 'good shape'
    By CURT ANDERSON
    2 hours ago

    Despite an engineer's warning of major structural problems, a town building official told board members their Florida high-rise condominium was in “very good shape” almost three years before it collapsed, according to minutes of that meeting released Monday.

    The Surfside official, Rosendo “Ross” Prieto was quoted as making those comments at a meeting of the Champlain Towers South board on Nov. 15, 2018. That was just over a month after engineering firm Morabito Consultants issued a report describing key flaws in the structure.

    The discussion with Prieto came as Champlain Towers was beginning to explore what work was needed under city and county ordinances for the building to meet a 40-year recertification that was to arrive in 2021.

    The board meeting minutes say that Prieto told them in 2018 the Morabito engineering report had collected the necessary information and “it appears the building is in very good shape.”

    A day later, Prieto told the then-town manager of Surfside he thought the meeting was a success and credited Champlain Towers with getting a good early start on the recertification process.

    “The response was very positive from everyone in the room,” Prieto wrote in the email, also released by town officials. “All the main concerns over their forty-year recertification process were addressed.”

    Yet there is no evidence any of the critical concrete structure work ever started, the documents show. Owners of the 136 units had been told earlier this year they would have to pay their share of a $15 million assessment — $9.1 million of which was major work — by July 1. That assessment ranged from about $80,000 for a one-bedroom unit to more than $330,000 for a penthouse.

    Prieto no longer works at Surfside and efforts to locate him Monday for comment were not immediately successful. Prieto previously told the Miami Herald he didn't remember getting the Morabito report and declined to comment on the November 2018 board meeting.

    The minutes were forwarded to Surfside officials on Sunday by an attorney for the board, according to the town.

    The Morabito report focused attention on the pool deck, which was found to have waterproofing underneath that had failed and had been laid flat instead of sloping to drain off water. This threatened not only the concrete slab under the pool but also other structural areas.

    “Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” said the report, which also cited “abundant cracking” in concrete columns and beams.

    While numerous theories have emerged, no definitive cause has been identified in Thursday's collapse of the 12-story Champlain Towers South building that left at least 10 people confirmed dead and 151 missing.

    One problem that surfaced back in 2019 involved work at another building adjacent to Champlain Towers South.

    “We are concerned that the construction next to (Champlain) is too close,” board member Mara Chouela wrote in an email to Prieto in January 2019. The construction work, she added, is “digging too close to our property and we have concerns regarding the structure of our building.”

    Prieto responded that Surfside didn't have an official role in that issue. “There is nothing for me to check. The best course of action is to have someone monitor the fence, pool and adjacent areas for damage or hire a consultant to monitor these areas,” he wrote.

    Champlain Towers South resident Steven Rosenthal, who lived on the seventh floor and escaped the collapse, said in a negligence lawsuit filed Sunday by his attorney Robert McKee that there were ample signs of danger.

    The building board, the lawsuit says, had warnings and other sources of information years ago indicating “the risk or potential indicators of severe building damage or collapse.”

    Rosenthal, the lawsuit adds, “lost his home. He lost his personal property obtained over the years. He has been forced into a life with no home or possessions.”

    The lawsuit is at least the second filed so far in the tower's collapse. It seeks unspecified damages.

    Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said during a news conference Monday that the minutes of the building board meeting were of some concern but did not elaborate. He said the town continues to gather documentation on the history of Champlain Towers South and inspections of its structural integrity, and is posting them online as they become available.

    “We will be 100% transparent,” Burkett said.


    136 unit owners on the hook for $80K to $330K? Some of whom are retirees on limited income? What are the condo fees for and isn’t it standard practice that a % of the condo fees go into escrow for major repairs? 40 years of fees, plus interest? Something stinks.
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    lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 12,260
    Money
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    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
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    CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,798
    mickeyrat said:
     
    Despite warning, town deemed condo building in 'good shape'
    By CURT ANDERSON
    2 hours ago

    Despite an engineer's warning of major structural problems, a town building official told board members their Florida high-rise condominium was in “very good shape” almost three years before it collapsed, according to minutes of that meeting released Monday.

    The Surfside official, Rosendo “Ross” Prieto was quoted as making those comments at a meeting of the Champlain Towers South board on Nov. 15, 2018. That was just over a month after engineering firm Morabito Consultants issued a report describing key flaws in the structure.

    The discussion with Prieto came as Champlain Towers was beginning to explore what work was needed under city and county ordinances for the building to meet a 40-year recertification that was to arrive in 2021.

    The board meeting minutes say that Prieto told them in 2018 the Morabito engineering report had collected the necessary information and “it appears the building is in very good shape.”

    A day later, Prieto told the then-town manager of Surfside he thought the meeting was a success and credited Champlain Towers with getting a good early start on the recertification process.

    “The response was very positive from everyone in the room,” Prieto wrote in the email, also released by town officials. “All the main concerns over their forty-year recertification process were addressed.”

    Yet there is no evidence any of the critical concrete structure work ever started, the documents show. Owners of the 136 units had been told earlier this year they would have to pay their share of a $15 million assessment — $9.1 million of which was major work — by July 1. That assessment ranged from about $80,000 for a one-bedroom unit to more than $330,000 for a penthouse.

    Prieto no longer works at Surfside and efforts to locate him Monday for comment were not immediately successful. Prieto previously told the Miami Herald he didn't remember getting the Morabito report and declined to comment on the November 2018 board meeting.

    The minutes were forwarded to Surfside officials on Sunday by an attorney for the board, according to the town.

    The Morabito report focused attention on the pool deck, which was found to have waterproofing underneath that had failed and had been laid flat instead of sloping to drain off water. This threatened not only the concrete slab under the pool but also other structural areas.

    “Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” said the report, which also cited “abundant cracking” in concrete columns and beams.

    While numerous theories have emerged, no definitive cause has been identified in Thursday's collapse of the 12-story Champlain Towers South building that left at least 10 people confirmed dead and 151 missing.

    One problem that surfaced back in 2019 involved work at another building adjacent to Champlain Towers South.

    “We are concerned that the construction next to (Champlain) is too close,” board member Mara Chouela wrote in an email to Prieto in January 2019. The construction work, she added, is “digging too close to our property and we have concerns regarding the structure of our building.”

    Prieto responded that Surfside didn't have an official role in that issue. “There is nothing for me to check. The best course of action is to have someone monitor the fence, pool and adjacent areas for damage or hire a consultant to monitor these areas,” he wrote.

    Champlain Towers South resident Steven Rosenthal, who lived on the seventh floor and escaped the collapse, said in a negligence lawsuit filed Sunday by his attorney Robert McKee that there were ample signs of danger.

    The building board, the lawsuit says, had warnings and other sources of information years ago indicating “the risk or potential indicators of severe building damage or collapse.”

    Rosenthal, the lawsuit adds, “lost his home. He lost his personal property obtained over the years. He has been forced into a life with no home or possessions.”

    The lawsuit is at least the second filed so far in the tower's collapse. It seeks unspecified damages.

    Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said during a news conference Monday that the minutes of the building board meeting were of some concern but did not elaborate. He said the town continues to gather documentation on the history of Champlain Towers South and inspections of its structural integrity, and is posting them online as they become available.

    “We will be 100% transparent,” Burkett said.


    136 unit owners on the hook for $80K to $330K? Some of whom are retirees on limited income? What are the condo fees for and isn’t it standard practice that a % of the condo fees go into escrow for major repairs? 40 years of fees, plus interest? Something stinks.

    Condo associations are run by volunteers.  Usually elected condo owners.  Not people with any sort of building management or maintenance experience.  

    The condo building I live in has budget for regular repairs for common, shared areas (new carpet every 10 years, roofing every 30 years, siding every 30 years, paint every 5 years, etc).

    A big structural issue like this would probable require a special assessment.  
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,150
    mickeyrat said:
     
    Despite warning, town deemed condo building in 'good shape'
    By CURT ANDERSON
    2 hours ago

    Despite an engineer's warning of major structural problems, a town building official told board members their Florida high-rise condominium was in “very good shape” almost three years before it collapsed, according to minutes of that meeting released Monday.

    The Surfside official, Rosendo “Ross” Prieto was quoted as making those comments at a meeting of the Champlain Towers South board on Nov. 15, 2018. That was just over a month after engineering firm Morabito Consultants issued a report describing key flaws in the structure.

    The discussion with Prieto came as Champlain Towers was beginning to explore what work was needed under city and county ordinances for the building to meet a 40-year recertification that was to arrive in 2021.

    The board meeting minutes say that Prieto told them in 2018 the Morabito engineering report had collected the necessary information and “it appears the building is in very good shape.”

    A day later, Prieto told the then-town manager of Surfside he thought the meeting was a success and credited Champlain Towers with getting a good early start on the recertification process.

    “The response was very positive from everyone in the room,” Prieto wrote in the email, also released by town officials. “All the main concerns over their forty-year recertification process were addressed.”

    Yet there is no evidence any of the critical concrete structure work ever started, the documents show. Owners of the 136 units had been told earlier this year they would have to pay their share of a $15 million assessment — $9.1 million of which was major work — by July 1. That assessment ranged from about $80,000 for a one-bedroom unit to more than $330,000 for a penthouse.

    Prieto no longer works at Surfside and efforts to locate him Monday for comment were not immediately successful. Prieto previously told the Miami Herald he didn't remember getting the Morabito report and declined to comment on the November 2018 board meeting.

    The minutes were forwarded to Surfside officials on Sunday by an attorney for the board, according to the town.

    The Morabito report focused attention on the pool deck, which was found to have waterproofing underneath that had failed and had been laid flat instead of sloping to drain off water. This threatened not only the concrete slab under the pool but also other structural areas.

    “Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” said the report, which also cited “abundant cracking” in concrete columns and beams.

    While numerous theories have emerged, no definitive cause has been identified in Thursday's collapse of the 12-story Champlain Towers South building that left at least 10 people confirmed dead and 151 missing.

    One problem that surfaced back in 2019 involved work at another building adjacent to Champlain Towers South.

    “We are concerned that the construction next to (Champlain) is too close,” board member Mara Chouela wrote in an email to Prieto in January 2019. The construction work, she added, is “digging too close to our property and we have concerns regarding the structure of our building.”

    Prieto responded that Surfside didn't have an official role in that issue. “There is nothing for me to check. The best course of action is to have someone monitor the fence, pool and adjacent areas for damage or hire a consultant to monitor these areas,” he wrote.

    Champlain Towers South resident Steven Rosenthal, who lived on the seventh floor and escaped the collapse, said in a negligence lawsuit filed Sunday by his attorney Robert McKee that there were ample signs of danger.

    The building board, the lawsuit says, had warnings and other sources of information years ago indicating “the risk or potential indicators of severe building damage or collapse.”

    Rosenthal, the lawsuit adds, “lost his home. He lost his personal property obtained over the years. He has been forced into a life with no home or possessions.”

    The lawsuit is at least the second filed so far in the tower's collapse. It seeks unspecified damages.

    Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett said during a news conference Monday that the minutes of the building board meeting were of some concern but did not elaborate. He said the town continues to gather documentation on the history of Champlain Towers South and inspections of its structural integrity, and is posting them online as they become available.

    “We will be 100% transparent,” Burkett said.


    136 unit owners on the hook for $80K to $330K? Some of whom are retirees on limited income? What are the condo fees for and isn’t it standard practice that a % of the condo fees go into escrow for major repairs? 40 years of fees, plus interest? Something stinks.
    That's typical practice believe it or not.  "Maintenance" covers just that.  Your heat and air, grounds, plumbing, etc.  When major renovations happen the owners get footed the bill which they usually vote on how to pay it but that is usually redoing the façade.  This happens all the time in Long Beach in the buildings.  

    The fact that this was major structural though may be different?  There should be insurance I would think on this.

    The failing concrete/pool leaking most likely caused the collapse.  If the excavation wasn't done properly then it could be a contributing factor but there are so many safety factors you have to go through when doing that.  

    or

    The excavation was done to code without the realization of the major concrete fails in the building and it contributed to the collapse.

    I heard on NPR that the Structural reports were subpoenaed.
  • Options
    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Condo fees are for many things but especially for maintenance...the people in charge within the condo association and the city is liable...criminal charges need to be filed...
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,150
    Building official that gave it a clean bill of health was just placed on leave...
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,354
    Two children’s bodies were found today 😞 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,724
    Two children’s bodies were found today 😞 
    The picture of the bunk bed on the edge of the room that used to be whole on the top floor is gut wrenching. Can’t imagine, never mind having family or friends missing or being a neighbor who witnessed it or survived it. Seems surreal.
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
     
    Fire official: Demolition to collapsed condo to start Sunday
    By REBECCA SANTANA
    8 mins ago

    SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) — A top Miami-Dade fire official on Saturday told family members of people missing in the rubble of a collapsed condo building that demolition workers planned to bring down the remainder of the building on Sunday.

    Worries have intensified over the past week that the damaged structure could come tumbling down on its own, endangering the crews below and complicating the search for victims.

    Fire Rescue Assistant Fire Chief Raide Jadallah told family members during a morning briefing that the building would be brought down “as soon as possible. First thing tomorrow.”

    But he cautioned that there “may be some hiccups.” A follow-up meeting will be held in the afternoon to finalize details of the demolition, which could be a precarious operation as experts enter the building to bore into the structure to install explosives.

    Concerns that the still-standing portion could tumble have curtailed the search in areas close to that section, and shifts detected by monitors early Thursday prompted a 15-hour suspension of the entire search until engineers determined the site was safe to restart.

    Jadallah said the remnants of the demolished building would be removed immediately after with the intent of giving rescuers access for the first time to the garage area that is the focus of the search.

    __

    Associated Press reporters Bobby Caina Calvan in Tallahassee, Florida, Terry Spencer in Surfside, Florida, Mike Schneider in Orlando, Florida, and Denise Lavoie in Richmond, Virginia, contributed to this report.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
     
    Surfside pushes back on report on delayed building repairs
    By BERNARD CONDON
    Today

    A Surfside, Florida, official pushed back Sunday on the idea that the town was responsible for slowing down a condo board’s plans to make needed structural repairs to a building that eventually collapsed, killing dozens.

    Following a Miami Herald report that it took more than a month for the town to respond to plans submitted by the building’s board in May, town manager Andrew Hyatt released a statement saying the issues under discussion were preliminary plans unrelated to structural work and not permits to begin repairs the building needed to pass a 40-year recertification.

    “It would appear that the Champlain Towers South Condominium Association sought to address a number of issues outside the scope of any proposed 40-year re-certification work," such as new natural gas lines and added parking, Hyatt's statement said. "There was no indication during any communications between the Town and the association by telephone or electronic mail that this submission required emergency action by the Town of Surfside."

    Emails first obtained by the Herald show the condo building manager growing impatient at the lack of response from the town to plans for a temporary parking plan needed to move forward on repair of a concrete slab under building's pool and on damaged columns in its garage.

    “As we are out to bid on our project (we) need to get to answers to these questions,” wrote building manager Scott Stewart to a town building official on June 21, more than a month after an initial email request was sent. “This is holding us up and cost (sic) are going up and out (sic) 40 year is coming up fast."

    He added, "Can we get some feed back please so we can keep moving forward please."

    The town responded with requests for additional information on June 23, just 14 hours before major sections of the 12-story building pancaked on itself, burying sleeping residents in twisted metal and broken concrete. So far, 24 people have been confirmed dead and 121 are still unaccounted for.

    A spokesman for the condo board declined to comment.

    Even without the town delay, it is not certain it would have made any difference. Approving bids and permits for such work may have taken longer than a month. And while the structural problems that were to be repaired have gotten intense scrutiny, it has not been determined definitively that they caused the collapse.

    The emails between the condo building and the town came after years of delay over the structural repairs.

    The problems with the building were first highlighted by an inspection report s ubmitted by an engineering firm to the condo board in 2018. The report urged work on a concrete slab that been improperly laid flat instead of sloped, preventing water from draining off, causing “major structural damage.”

    The report submitted by Morabito Consultants did not warn that the building was in danger of falling down. And a town building official at the time was reassuring, telling members soon after the report that the condo building was in “very good shape."

    Another possible factor adding to the delay was Morabito Consultant's estimated price tag for the work — more than $9 million.

    Some owners protested, members of the board left, new ones came in, the repairs were put off and by the time a new board was ready to start the work this year, the price tag had ballooned to more than $15 million, according to a board letter sent to owners in April.

    When the building fell on June 24, the board had taken out a loan, work on the roof had begun, requests for bids for structural repairs were put out, and some owners had already paid in full their special assessment to pay for the work. Those who elected to pay in installments over many years instead faced a deadline for their first payments on July 1.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,044
     
    Search back on after rest of South Florida condo demolished
    By REBECCA SANTANA and BOBBY CAINA CALVAN
    17 mins ago

    SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) — Rescuers were given the all-clear to resume work looking for victims at a collapsed South Florida condo building after demolition crews set off a string of explosives that brought down the last of the building in a plume of dust.

    Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava told the Associated Press that the demolition went “exactly as planned” around 10:30 p.m. Sunday.

    Crews immediately began clearing some of the new debris so rescuers could start making their way into parts of the underground garage that is of particular interest. Once there, they were hoping to get a clearer picture of voids that may exist in the rubble as they search for 121 people believed to be trapped under the fallen wing of the Champlain Towers South in Surfside that collapsed June 24.

    No one has been rescued alive since the first hours after the collapse. On Sunday, Miami-Dade police identified David Epstein, 58, as one of the 24 people known to have perished in the fallen tower. His remains were recovered Friday.

    During the demolition, a loud rat-at-tat of explosions echoed from the structure. Then the building began to fall, one floor after another, cascading into an explosion of dust. Plumes billowed into the air, as crowds watched the scene from afar.

    Demolition crews set off explosives late Sunday to bring down the damaged remaining portion of a collapsed South Florida condo building, a key step to resuming the search for victims as rescuers possibly gain access to new areas of the rubble. (July 4)

    “It was picture perfect. Exactly what we were told would happen,” Levine Cava said in an interview shortly after the demolition.

    It wasn't long before cranes were again in motion at the site. Levine Cava said in an interview on NBC’s “Today” that crews were back searching the rubble before midnight.

    Some residents had pleaded to return to their homes one last time before the demolition to retrieve belongings left in haste, but were denied. Others wondered about the pets left behind, even though officials said they found no signs of animals after making three final sweeps, including the use of drones to peer into the abandoned structure.

    Levine Cava said officials have been explaining their decisions with the survivors since the beginning of the search-and-rescue effort.

    “We understand that families realize the fact that time has gone by, they realize that the chances are growing all dimmer,” she said on “Today.” “They are with us, they know what we’ve been doing every step of the way.”

    The mayor also said that teams are working to save any personal items they can. “We have been asking them to go ahead and catalog all of their precious belongings so that as soon as they are recovered, we’ll be able to make a match.”

    Approaching Tropical Storm Elsa had added urgency to the demolition plans with forecasts suggesting the system could bring strong winds. President Joe Biden declared a state of emergency in Florida because of the storm, making federal aid possible.

    The latest forecasts have moved the storm westward, mostly sparing South Florida, but National Hurricane Center meteorologist Robert Molleda said the area could still feel effects.

    “We’re expecting primarily tropical storm force gusts,” Molleda said, referring to gusts above 40 mph (64 kph).

    The decision to demolish the remnants of the Surfside building came after concerns mounted that the damaged structure was at risk of falling, endangering the crews below and preventing them from operating in some areas. Parts of the remaining building shifted on Thursday, prompting a 15-hour suspension in the work.

    Authorities had gone door-to-door to advise nearby residents of the timing of the demolition, and to ask them to keep windows closed. They were told to stay inside until two hours after the blast to avoid the dust raised by the implosion.

    The method used for Sunday night’s demolition is called “energetic felling,” which uses small detonation devices and relies on the force of gravity. The goal was to bring in the building down in place, containing the collapse to the immediate surroundings.

    Officials used tarps to visually mark the search area, in case new debris scattered unexpectedly.

    State officials said they hired the BG Group, a general contractor based in Delray Beach, Florida, to lead the demolition. They did not immediately respond to an inquiry about how the firm was selected, but a contract for the project calls for the state to pay the company $935,000.

    A spokesperson for the state’s Division of Emergency Management said the company subcontracted with Maryland-based Controlled Demolition Inc., which experts say is among only a handful of companies in the U.S. that demolishes structures using explosives. The company was expected to place explosives on the basement and lobby levels of the still-standing structure, according to the contract for the work.

    CDI is “probably one of the best” in the industry, said Steve Schwartz, a member of the National Demolition Association’s board of directors. He described the company’s president and owner, Mark Loizeaux, as “cool, calm and collected.”

    In implosions — using explosives to have a building fall in on itself — the charges are generally set off in rapid succession over a matter of seconds, said Scott Homrich, who heads the National Demolition Association and runs his own demolition company in Detroit, Michigan. Setting the explosives off at intervals serves to break up the building at the same time it’s coming down.

    ___

    Calvan reported from Tallahassee. Associated Press writers Terry Spencer in Surfside, Florida; Adriana Gomez Licon in Miami; Sudhin Thanawala in Atlanta, Freida Frisaro in Fort Lauderdale and Ian Mader in Miami contributed to this report.


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