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Capitol Riots 2

11516182021

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    mickeyrat said:
    the symbolism of the INSURRECTION compares to that of Dec 7 and Sept 11. Both have been framed as an attack on democracy.
    .As was Jan 6
    I will disagree whole heartedly that these 3 dates have anything in common.  The reason being that the day after two of these events we galvanized as a country where in Dec 6th it just drove us further apart.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,779
    edited July 15
    mickeyrat said:
    the symbolism of the INSURRECTION compares to that of Dec 7 and Sept 11. Both have been framed as an attack on democracy.
    .As was Jan 6
    I will disagree whole heartedly that these 3 dates have anything in common.  The reason being that the day after two of these events we galvanized as a country where in Dec 6th it just drove us further apart.
    first, the comparison isnt about the aftermath. its about the acts on those days and what they are.


    and to your point it'sbecause of the enemy within. trump, his propaganda channels and a political party abdicating their oath.

    and it continues 6 months later. all good though. 1st hearing in 12 days.....
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 6,086
    edited July 15

    Americans attacking America is far worse IMO than foreign combatants / terrorists attacking America.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    the symbolism of the INSURRECTION compares to that of Dec 7 and Sept 11. Both have been framed as an attack on democracy.
    .As was Jan 6
    I will disagree whole heartedly that these 3 dates have anything in common.  The reason being that the day after two of these events we galvanized as a country where in Dec 6th it just drove us further apart.
    first, the comparison isnt about the aftermath. its about the acts on those days and what they are.


    and to your point it'sbecause of the enemy within. trump, his propaganda channels and a political party abdicating their oath.

    and it continues 6 months later. all good though. 1st hearing in 12 days.....
    Just because I don't think it is the same don't dismiss my point. 

    It's very true that we came together as a nation for 9/11 and Dec 7th where all that happened for Dec 6th is more bickering.  

    I still hope that they arrest everyone involved and am onboard w the private investigation.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652

    Americans attacking America is far worse IMO than foreign combatants / terrorists attacking America.
    Agree 100%.  This way of thinking isn't going away anytime soon.  When elections come around again I would expect a rallying of the troops to become bigger.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,779
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    the symbolism of the INSURRECTION compares to that of Dec 7 and Sept 11. Both have been framed as an attack on democracy.
    .As was Jan 6
    I will disagree whole heartedly that these 3 dates have anything in common.  The reason being that the day after two of these events we galvanized as a country where in Dec 6th it just drove us further apart.
    first, the comparison isnt about the aftermath. its about the acts on those days and what they are.


    and to your point it'sbecause of the enemy within. trump, his propaganda channels and a political party abdicating their oath.

    and it continues 6 months later. all good though. 1st hearing in 12 days.....
    Just because I don't think it is the same don't dismiss my point. 

    It's very true that we came together as a nation for 9/11 and Dec 7th where all that happened for Dec 6th is more bickering.  

    I still hope that they arrest everyone involved and am onboard w the private investigation.

    I didnt dismiss it. I dont believe the initial media comparison was intended to include what came after. And your point seems to be to do so.

    the attack on the constitutional procedure for the peaceful transition of power is absolutely on par with  Dec 7 and Sept 11. I'd include the firing on Ft Sumpter to kick off the civil war in this too.

    All were an attack on our constitutional order. period.

    the fact that Dec 7 and Sept 11 saw the country come together isnt relevant to the commonality of the four events.

    theres a reason the oaths of office (to include the military oaths) contain the phrase"  ... all enemies foreign and domestic."
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    the symbolism of the INSURRECTION compares to that of Dec 7 and Sept 11. Both have been framed as an attack on democracy.
    .As was Jan 6
    I will disagree whole heartedly that these 3 dates have anything in common.  The reason being that the day after two of these events we galvanized as a country where in Dec 6th it just drove us further apart.
    first, the comparison isnt about the aftermath. its about the acts on those days and what they are.


    and to your point it'sbecause of the enemy within. trump, his propaganda channels and a political party abdicating their oath.

    and it continues 6 months later. all good though. 1st hearing in 12 days.....
    Just because I don't think it is the same don't dismiss my point. 

    It's very true that we came together as a nation for 9/11 and Dec 7th where all that happened for Dec 6th is more bickering.  

    I still hope that they arrest everyone involved and am onboard w the private investigation.

    I didnt dismiss it. I dont believe the initial media comparison was intended to include what came after. And your point seems to be to do so.

    the attack on the constitutional procedure for the peaceful transition of power is absolutely on par with  Dec 7 and Sept 11. I'd include the firing on Ft Sumpter to kick off the civil war in this too.

    All were an attack on our constitutional order. period.

    the fact that Dec 7 and Sept 11 saw the country come together isnt relevant to the commonality of the four events.

    theres a reason the oaths of office (to include the military oaths) contain the phrase"  ... all enemies foreign and domestic."
    It was my view of the aftermath of the 3 dates, I made that comparison just to bring about a point which i do think is relevant to the topic.

    When we have domestic enemies it doesn't seem to have the same response as when a foreign entity does something to our democracy/country.  

    I agree with what you are saying though.
  • RunIntoTheRainRunIntoTheRain TexasPosts: 900
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,887
    I’m not going to waste my time trying to cut and paste the linked article for a crowd, who in the end appears, on its surface, reflective of ‘Murica. Buy a 30 day subscription, it may even be free, read this link. If you’re not disturbed, you’re not ‘Murican. Enjoy your shit hole country. Congratulations.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/15/jan-6-i-alone-can-fix-it-book-excerpt/
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
    That's all you got out of that?  Great.
  • RunIntoTheRainRunIntoTheRain TexasPosts: 900
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
    That's all you got out of that?  Great.
    No it’s not. I’m sorry for only commenting on the misinformation, which I’m sure was accidental. I just wanted to clarify the date because another person responded to you and repeated the mistake. 

    Have a great day :)
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
    That's all you got out of that?  Great.
    No it’s not. I’m sorry for only commenting on the misinformation, which I’m sure was accidental. I just wanted to clarify the date because another person responded to you and repeated the mistake. 

    Have a great day :)
    I'm just playing.  I know full and well that Jan 7th was the day when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,256
    I’m not going to waste my time trying to cut and paste the linked article for a crowd, who in the end appears, on its surface, reflective of ‘Murica. Buy a 30 day subscription, it may even be free, read this link. If you’re not disturbed, you’re not ‘Murican. Enjoy your shit hole country. Congratulations.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/15/jan-6-i-alone-can-fix-it-book-excerpt/
    I have a hard time crediting Pence for doing what he should have done in the first place.  Especially when the 25th amendment was available for four years as he sat by.  

    Very odd that Pence didn't trust the secret service to get him out of there.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

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  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 1,512
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
    That's all you got out of that?  Great.
    No it’s not. I’m sorry for only commenting on the misinformation, which I’m sure was accidental. I just wanted to clarify the date because another person responded to you and repeated the mistake. 

    Have a great day :)
    I'm just playing.  I know full and well that Jan 7th was the day when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
    Bluto!
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
    That's all you got out of that?  Great.
    No it’s not. I’m sorry for only commenting on the misinformation, which I’m sure was accidental. I just wanted to clarify the date because another person responded to you and repeated the mistake. 

    Have a great day :)
    I'm just playing.  I know full and well that Jan 7th was the day when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
    Bluto!
    lol, you got it!
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,898
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
    That's all you got out of that?  Great.
    No it’s not. I’m sorry for only commenting on the misinformation, which I’m sure was accidental. I just wanted to clarify the date because another person responded to you and repeated the mistake. 

    Have a great day :)
    I'm just playing.  I know full and well that Jan 7th was the day when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
    Forget it; he’s rolling.
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,652
    OnWis97 said:
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
    That's all you got out of that?  Great.
    No it’s not. I’m sorry for only commenting on the misinformation, which I’m sure was accidental. I just wanted to clarify the date because another person responded to you and repeated the mistake. 

    Have a great day :)
    I'm just playing.  I know full and well that Jan 7th was the day when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
    Forget it; he’s rolling.
    Ya know I wasn't sure if anyone was going to pick up on that.  So glad you two did, lol.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,887
    No sympathy. Throw the book at them. And we saw what Lincoln's benevolence wrought. Who's he kidding?

    U.S. seeks prison term for first felony defendant to be sentenced in Capitol breach, citing domestic terror threat

    U.S. prosecutors on Wednesday urged a federal judge to impose an 18-month prison term on the first defendant to face sentencing for a felony in the Jan. 6 Capitol breach, citing the need to deter domestic terrorism.

    “The need to deter others is especially strong in cases involving domestic terrorism, which the breach of the Capitol certainly was,” Special Assistant U.S. Attorney Mona Sedky said in a government sentencing request for Tampa crane operator Paul Allard Hodgkins, 38, who carried a Trump flag into the well of the Senate.

    The court filing marked one of the Justice Department’s bluntest statements to date of its view of the Capitol breach, in which members of a mob supporting President Donald Trump stormed barricades, assaulted nearly 140 police officers, and forced the evacuation of a joint session of Congress meeting to confirm the results of the 2020 election.

    Hodgkins’s sentencing, scheduled for Monday, could set the bar for what punishment 100 or more defendants might expect to face as they weigh whether to accept plea offers by prosecutors or take their chances at a trial by jury.

    About 800 people entered the building, U.S. officials have said, with more than 500 individuals charged to date and charges expected against at least 100 others.

    About 20 people have pleaded guilty, and one misdemeanor defendant has been sentenced to probation.

    In Hodgkins’s case, Sedky cited FBI Director Christopher A. Wray’s testimony in March to the Senate that the problem of homegrown violent extremism is “metastasizing,” with some actors growing emboldened by the Capitol riot.

    “That attack, that siege, was criminal behavior, plain and simple, and it’s behavior that we, the FBI, view as domestic terrorism,” Wray told the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 2.

    Sedky also asked U.S. District Judge Randolph D. Moss of Washington to recognize prior court findings that though individuals convicted of such behavior may have no criminal history, their beliefs make them “unique among criminals in the likelihood of recidivism.”

    Hodgkins pleaded guilty on June 2 to one felony count of entering the Capitol to obstruct Congress, a common charge being used by prosecutors. Unlike other defendants, he was not accused of other wrongdoing or involvement with extremist groups, nor did he enter a cooperation deal with prosecutors. Under advisory federal guidelines, he could face a prison sentence of 15 to 21 months.

    Hodgkins poses an intriguing example for defendants against whom prosecutors have threatened to seek enhanced domestic terrorism penalties, lawyers said. Such enhancements, if found to apply, could more than double a defendant’s guidelines range or otherwise increase recommended penalties, although judges would have the final say.

    In Hodgkins’s case, prosecutors did not ask the judge to apply the enhancement, even though they wrote Wednesday that his conduct met the definition of violence “calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion.”

    Instead, prosecutors said a “midpoint” sentence in Hodgkins’s existing range was appropriate, but still urged Moss to consider the importance of dissuading future acts of domestic terrorism.

    Hodgkins has asked for a below-guidelines sentence of probation. His attorney urged Moss to follow the example of President Abraham Lincoln’s planned approach to the defeated South after the Civil War, before he was assassinated.

    “Today, this Court has a chance to make a difference,” Tampa attorney Patrick N. Leduc wrote, asserting that America now is “as divided as it was in the 1850s” on racial and regional lines.

    “We have the chance to be as Lincoln had hoped, to exercise grace and charity, and to restore healing for those who seek forgiveness. Alternatively, we can follow the mistakes of our past: to be harsh, seek vengeance, retribution, and revenge, and continue to watch the nation go down its present regrettable path,” Leduc said.

    Lawyers familiar with the Capitol probe have said the case illustrates how prosecutors are taking a carrot-and-stick approach in plea talks, threatening to hit some defendants with tougher sentencing guidelines calculations while showing some flexibility for those not accused of any violent conduct in a bid to resolve cases short of trial.

    For example, another Jan. 6 defendant pleaded guilty Wednesday to the identical charge as Hodgkins. However, Josiah Colt, 34, of Idaho, faced a sentencing guidelines range three times as high, 51 to 63 months, after admitting that he came armed to Washington and was with others accused of violently interfering with police. Colt, however, entered a cooperation deal, implicating two men he was with in plea papers and agreeing to aid investigators in exchange for a recommendation of leniency.

    Several defense attorneys in the probe privately called prosecutors’ tactics draconian in some cases, saying they are threatening years of prison time for individuals not charged with violence and giving them little choice but to face trial.

    In plea papers, Hodgkins acknowledged that he was recorded holding a red, white and blue “Trump 2020” flag and wearing a dark Trump T-shirt as he stood next to the Senate dais on Jan. 6 as other people shouted, cheered and prayed. They included a shirtless man wearing horns and face paint at the vice president’s chair. Hodgkins wore eye goggles at one point and pulled latex gloves on and off in a bid to aid another rioter.

    The government said it recognized that Hodgkins “did not personally engage in or espouse violence or property destruction,” accepted responsibility early, and has taken “significant steps” toward rehabilitation.

    Capitol riot sentencing: Government seeks 18 months prison for Paul Allard Hodgkins. - The Washington Post

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,779
    Jan 6th. Not Dec 6th @tempo_n_groove
    That's all you got out of that?  Great.
    No it’s not. I’m sorry for only commenting on the misinformation, which I’m sure was accidental. I just wanted to clarify the date because another person responded to you and repeated the mistake. 

    Have a great day :)
    I'm just playing.  I know full and well that Jan 7th was the day when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

    Senator Bluto Blutarski
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 25,750
    No sympathy. Throw the book at them. And we saw what Lincoln's benevolence wrought. Who's he kidding?

    U.S. seeks prison term for first felony defendant to be sentenced in Capitol breach, citing domestic terror threat

    U.S. prosecutors on Wednesday urged a federal judge to impose an 18-month prison term on the first defendant to face sentencing for a felony in the Jan. 6 Capitol breach, citing the need to deter domestic terrorism.

    “The need to deter others is especially strong in cases involving domestic terrorism, which the breach of the Capitol certainly was,” Special Assistant U.S. Attorney Mona Sedky said in a government sentencing request for Tampa crane operator Paul Allard Hodgkins, 38, who carried a Trump flag into the well of the Senate.

    The court filing marked one of the Justice Department’s bluntest statements to date of its view of the Capitol breach, in which members of a mob supporting President Donald Trump stormed barricades, assaulted nearly 140 police officers, and forced the evacuation of a joint session of Congress meeting to confirm the results of the 2020 election.

    Hodgkins’s sentencing, scheduled for Monday, could set the bar for what punishment 100 or more defendants might expect to face as they weigh whether to accept plea offers by prosecutors or take their chances at a trial by jury.

    About 800 people entered the building, U.S. officials have said, with more than 500 individuals charged to date and charges expected against at least 100 others.

    About 20 people have pleaded guilty, and one misdemeanor defendant has been sentenced to probation.

    In Hodgkins’s case, Sedky cited FBI Director Christopher A. Wray’s testimony in March to the Senate that the problem of homegrown violent extremism is “metastasizing,” with some actors growing emboldened by the Capitol riot.

    “That attack, that siege, was criminal behavior, plain and simple, and it’s behavior that we, the FBI, view as domestic terrorism,” Wray told the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 2.

    Sedky also asked U.S. District Judge Randolph D. Moss of Washington to recognize prior court findings that though individuals convicted of such behavior may have no criminal history, their beliefs make them “unique among criminals in the likelihood of recidivism.”

    Hodgkins pleaded guilty on June 2 to one felony count of entering the Capitol to obstruct Congress, a common charge being used by prosecutors. Unlike other defendants, he was not accused of other wrongdoing or involvement with extremist groups, nor did he enter a cooperation deal with prosecutors. Under advisory federal guidelines, he could face a prison sentence of 15 to 21 months.

    Hodgkins poses an intriguing example for defendants against whom prosecutors have threatened to seek enhanced domestic terrorism penalties, lawyers said. Such enhancements, if found to apply, could more than double a defendant’s guidelines range or otherwise increase recommended penalties, although judges would have the final say.

    In Hodgkins’s case, prosecutors did not ask the judge to apply the enhancement, even though they wrote Wednesday that his conduct met the definition of violence “calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion.”

    Instead, prosecutors said a “midpoint” sentence in Hodgkins’s existing range was appropriate, but still urged Moss to consider the importance of dissuading future acts of domestic terrorism.

    Hodgkins has asked for a below-guidelines sentence of probation. His attorney urged Moss to follow the example of President Abraham Lincoln’s planned approach to the defeated South after the Civil War, before he was assassinated.

    “Today, this Court has a chance to make a difference,” Tampa attorney Patrick N. Leduc wrote, asserting that America now is “as divided as it was in the 1850s” on racial and regional lines.

    “We have the chance to be as Lincoln had hoped, to exercise grace and charity, and to restore healing for those who seek forgiveness. Alternatively, we can follow the mistakes of our past: to be harsh, seek vengeance, retribution, and revenge, and continue to watch the nation go down its present regrettable path,” Leduc said.

    Lawyers familiar with the Capitol probe have said the case illustrates how prosecutors are taking a carrot-and-stick approach in plea talks, threatening to hit some defendants with tougher sentencing guidelines calculations while showing some flexibility for those not accused of any violent conduct in a bid to resolve cases short of trial.

    For example, another Jan. 6 defendant pleaded guilty Wednesday to the identical charge as Hodgkins. However, Josiah Colt, 34, of Idaho, faced a sentencing guidelines range three times as high, 51 to 63 months, after admitting that he came armed to Washington and was with others accused of violently interfering with police. Colt, however, entered a cooperation deal, implicating two men he was with in plea papers and agreeing to aid investigators in exchange for a recommendation of leniency.

    Several defense attorneys in the probe privately called prosecutors’ tactics draconian in some cases, saying they are threatening years of prison time for individuals not charged with violence and giving them little choice but to face trial.

    In plea papers, Hodgkins acknowledged that he was recorded holding a red, white and blue “Trump 2020” flag and wearing a dark Trump T-shirt as he stood next to the Senate dais on Jan. 6 as other people shouted, cheered and prayed. They included a shirtless man wearing horns and face paint at the vice president’s chair. Hodgkins wore eye goggles at one point and pulled latex gloves on and off in a bid to aid another rioter.

    The government said it recognized that Hodgkins “did not personally engage in or espouse violence or property destruction,” accepted responsibility early, and has taken “significant steps” toward rehabilitation.

    Capitol riot sentencing: Government seeks 18 months prison for Paul Allard Hodgkins. - The Washington Post


    If someone can get years for having a bag of pot in some states these fucking asswipes should get multiple years -- every single one of them who entered the Capital on that day. 
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 387
    No sympathy. Throw the book at them. And we saw what Lincoln's benevolence wrought. Who's he kidding?

    U.S. seeks prison term for first felony defendant to be sentenced in Capitol breach, citing domestic terror threat

    U.S. prosecutors on Wednesday urged a federal judge to impose an 18-month prison term on the first defendant to face sentencing for a felony in the Jan. 6 Capitol breach, citing the need to deter domestic terrorism.

    “The need to deter others is especially strong in cases involving domestic terrorism, which the breach of the Capitol certainly was,” Special Assistant U.S. Attorney Mona Sedky said in a government sentencing request for Tampa crane operator Paul Allard Hodgkins, 38, who carried a Trump flag into the well of the Senate.

    The court filing marked one of the Justice Department’s bluntest statements to date of its view of the Capitol breach, in which members of a mob supporting President Donald Trump stormed barricades, assaulted nearly 140 police officers, and forced the evacuation of a joint session of Congress meeting to confirm the results of the 2020 election.

    Hodgkins’s sentencing, scheduled for Monday, could set the bar for what punishment 100 or more defendants might expect to face as they weigh whether to accept plea offers by prosecutors or take their chances at a trial by jury.

    About 800 people entered the building, U.S. officials have said, with more than 500 individuals charged to date and charges expected against at least 100 others.

    About 20 people have pleaded guilty, and one misdemeanor defendant has been sentenced to probation.

    In Hodgkins’s case, Sedky cited FBI Director Christopher A. Wray’s testimony in March to the Senate that the problem of homegrown violent extremism is “metastasizing,” with some actors growing emboldened by the Capitol riot.

    “That attack, that siege, was criminal behavior, plain and simple, and it’s behavior that we, the FBI, view as domestic terrorism,” Wray told the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 2.

    Sedky also asked U.S. District Judge Randolph D. Moss of Washington to recognize prior court findings that though individuals convicted of such behavior may have no criminal history, their beliefs make them “unique among criminals in the likelihood of recidivism.”

    Hodgkins pleaded guilty on June 2 to one felony count of entering the Capitol to obstruct Congress, a common charge being used by prosecutors. Unlike other defendants, he was not accused of other wrongdoing or involvement with extremist groups, nor did he enter a cooperation deal with prosecutors. Under advisory federal guidelines, he could face a prison sentence of 15 to 21 months.

    Hodgkins poses an intriguing example for defendants against whom prosecutors have threatened to seek enhanced domestic terrorism penalties, lawyers said. Such enhancements, if found to apply, could more than double a defendant’s guidelines range or otherwise increase recommended penalties, although judges would have the final say.

    In Hodgkins’s case, prosecutors did not ask the judge to apply the enhancement, even though they wrote Wednesday that his conduct met the definition of violence “calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion.”

    Instead, prosecutors said a “midpoint” sentence in Hodgkins’s existing range was appropriate, but still urged Moss to consider the importance of dissuading future acts of domestic terrorism.

    Hodgkins has asked for a below-guidelines sentence of probation. His attorney urged Moss to follow the example of President Abraham Lincoln’s planned approach to the defeated South after the Civil War, before he was assassinated.

    “Today, this Court has a chance to make a difference,” Tampa attorney Patrick N. Leduc wrote, asserting that America now is “as divided as it was in the 1850s” on racial and regional lines.

    “We have the chance to be as Lincoln had hoped, to exercise grace and charity, and to restore healing for those who seek forgiveness. Alternatively, we can follow the mistakes of our past: to be harsh, seek vengeance, retribution, and revenge, and continue to watch the nation go down its present regrettable path,” Leduc said.

    Lawyers familiar with the Capitol probe have said the case illustrates how prosecutors are taking a carrot-and-stick approach in plea talks, threatening to hit some defendants with tougher sentencing guidelines calculations while showing some flexibility for those not accused of any violent conduct in a bid to resolve cases short of trial.

    For example, another Jan. 6 defendant pleaded guilty Wednesday to the identical charge as Hodgkins. However, Josiah Colt, 34, of Idaho, faced a sentencing guidelines range three times as high, 51 to 63 months, after admitting that he came armed to Washington and was with others accused of violently interfering with police. Colt, however, entered a cooperation deal, implicating two men he was with in plea papers and agreeing to aid investigators in exchange for a recommendation of leniency.

    Several defense attorneys in the probe privately called prosecutors’ tactics draconian in some cases, saying they are threatening years of prison time for individuals not charged with violence and giving them little choice but to face trial.

    In plea papers, Hodgkins acknowledged that he was recorded holding a red, white and blue “Trump 2020” flag and wearing a dark Trump T-shirt as he stood next to the Senate dais on Jan. 6 as other people shouted, cheered and prayed. They included a shirtless man wearing horns and face paint at the vice president’s chair. Hodgkins wore eye goggles at one point and pulled latex gloves on and off in a bid to aid another rioter.

    The government said it recognized that Hodgkins “did not personally engage in or espouse violence or property destruction,” accepted responsibility early, and has taken “significant steps” toward rehabilitation.

    Capitol riot sentencing: Government seeks 18 months prison for Paul Allard Hodgkins. - The Washington Post


    If someone can get years for having a bag of pot in some states these fucking asswipes should get multiple years -- every single one of them who entered the Capital on that day. 
    The bag of pot thing is 100% spot on but what about the people that the Capitol Police allowed to enter the building? Not everyone broke down doors to get inside.

  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 25,750
    JB16057 said:
    No sympathy. Throw the book at them. And we saw what Lincoln's benevolence wrought. Who's he kidding?

    U.S. seeks prison term for first felony defendant to be sentenced in Capitol breach, citing domestic terror threat

    U.S. prosecutors on Wednesday urged a federal judge to impose an 18-month prison term on the first defendant to face sentencing for a felony in the Jan. 6 Capitol breach, citing the need to deter domestic terrorism.

    “The need to deter others is especially strong in cases involving domestic terrorism, which the breach of the Capitol certainly was,” Special Assistant U.S. Attorney Mona Sedky said in a government sentencing request for Tampa crane operator Paul Allard Hodgkins, 38, who carried a Trump flag into the well of the Senate.

    The court filing marked one of the Justice Department’s bluntest statements to date of its view of the Capitol breach, in which members of a mob supporting President Donald Trump stormed barricades, assaulted nearly 140 police officers, and forced the evacuation of a joint session of Congress meeting to confirm the results of the 2020 election.

    Hodgkins’s sentencing, scheduled for Monday, could set the bar for what punishment 100 or more defendants might expect to face as they weigh whether to accept plea offers by prosecutors or take their chances at a trial by jury.

    About 800 people entered the building, U.S. officials have said, with more than 500 individuals charged to date and charges expected against at least 100 others.

    About 20 people have pleaded guilty, and one misdemeanor defendant has been sentenced to probation.

    In Hodgkins’s case, Sedky cited FBI Director Christopher A. Wray’s testimony in March to the Senate that the problem of homegrown violent extremism is “metastasizing,” with some actors growing emboldened by the Capitol riot.

    “That attack, that siege, was criminal behavior, plain and simple, and it’s behavior that we, the FBI, view as domestic terrorism,” Wray told the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 2.

    Sedky also asked U.S. District Judge Randolph D. Moss of Washington to recognize prior court findings that though individuals convicted of such behavior may have no criminal history, their beliefs make them “unique among criminals in the likelihood of recidivism.”

    Hodgkins pleaded guilty on June 2 to one felony count of entering the Capitol to obstruct Congress, a common charge being used by prosecutors. Unlike other defendants, he was not accused of other wrongdoing or involvement with extremist groups, nor did he enter a cooperation deal with prosecutors. Under advisory federal guidelines, he could face a prison sentence of 15 to 21 months.

    Hodgkins poses an intriguing example for defendants against whom prosecutors have threatened to seek enhanced domestic terrorism penalties, lawyers said. Such enhancements, if found to apply, could more than double a defendant’s guidelines range or otherwise increase recommended penalties, although judges would have the final say.

    In Hodgkins’s case, prosecutors did not ask the judge to apply the enhancement, even though they wrote Wednesday that his conduct met the definition of violence “calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion.”

    Instead, prosecutors said a “midpoint” sentence in Hodgkins’s existing range was appropriate, but still urged Moss to consider the importance of dissuading future acts of domestic terrorism.

    Hodgkins has asked for a below-guidelines sentence of probation. His attorney urged Moss to follow the example of President Abraham Lincoln’s planned approach to the defeated South after the Civil War, before he was assassinated.

    “Today, this Court has a chance to make a difference,” Tampa attorney Patrick N. Leduc wrote, asserting that America now is “as divided as it was in the 1850s” on racial and regional lines.

    “We have the chance to be as Lincoln had hoped, to exercise grace and charity, and to restore healing for those who seek forgiveness. Alternatively, we can follow the mistakes of our past: to be harsh, seek vengeance, retribution, and revenge, and continue to watch the nation go down its present regrettable path,” Leduc said.

    Lawyers familiar with the Capitol probe have said the case illustrates how prosecutors are taking a carrot-and-stick approach in plea talks, threatening to hit some defendants with tougher sentencing guidelines calculations while showing some flexibility for those not accused of any violent conduct in a bid to resolve cases short of trial.

    For example, another Jan. 6 defendant pleaded guilty Wednesday to the identical charge as Hodgkins. However, Josiah Colt, 34, of Idaho, faced a sentencing guidelines range three times as high, 51 to 63 months, after admitting that he came armed to Washington and was with others accused of violently interfering with police. Colt, however, entered a cooperation deal, implicating two men he was with in plea papers and agreeing to aid investigators in exchange for a recommendation of leniency.

    Several defense attorneys in the probe privately called prosecutors’ tactics draconian in some cases, saying they are threatening years of prison time for individuals not charged with violence and giving them little choice but to face trial.

    In plea papers, Hodgkins acknowledged that he was recorded holding a red, white and blue “Trump 2020” flag and wearing a dark Trump T-shirt as he stood next to the Senate dais on Jan. 6 as other people shouted, cheered and prayed. They included a shirtless man wearing horns and face paint at the vice president’s chair. Hodgkins wore eye goggles at one point and pulled latex gloves on and off in a bid to aid another rioter.

    The government said it recognized that Hodgkins “did not personally engage in or espouse violence or property destruction,” accepted responsibility early, and has taken “significant steps” toward rehabilitation.

    Capitol riot sentencing: Government seeks 18 months prison for Paul Allard Hodgkins. - The Washington Post


    If someone can get years for having a bag of pot in some states these fucking asswipes should get multiple years -- every single one of them who entered the Capital on that day. 
    The bag of pot thing is 100% spot on but what about the people that the Capitol Police allowed to enter the building? Not everyone broke down doors to get inside.

    I think that anyone that went in should be made an example of.  Blaming the police is not the way I would take this....if you went in you were part of the group of flaming assholes.  

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 6,086
    JB16057 said:
    No sympathy. Throw the book at them. And we saw what Lincoln's benevolence wrought. Who's he kidding?

    U.S. seeks prison term for first felony defendant to be sentenced in Capitol breach, citing domestic terror threat

    U.S. prosecutors on Wednesday urged a federal judge to impose an 18-month prison term on the first defendant to face sentencing for a felony in the Jan. 6 Capitol breach, citing the need to deter domestic terrorism.

    “The need to deter others is especially strong in cases involving domestic terrorism, which the breach of the Capitol certainly was,” Special Assistant U.S. Attorney Mona Sedky said in a government sentencing request for Tampa crane operator Paul Allard Hodgkins, 38, who carried a Trump flag into the well of the Senate.

    The court filing marked one of the Justice Department’s bluntest statements to date of its view of the Capitol breach, in which members of a mob supporting President Donald Trump stormed barricades, assaulted nearly 140 police officers, and forced the evacuation of a joint session of Congress meeting to confirm the results of the 2020 election.

    Hodgkins’s sentencing, scheduled for Monday, could set the bar for what punishment 100 or more defendants might expect to face as they weigh whether to accept plea offers by prosecutors or take their chances at a trial by jury.

    About 800 people entered the building, U.S. officials have said, with more than 500 individuals charged to date and charges expected against at least 100 others.

    About 20 people have pleaded guilty, and one misdemeanor defendant has been sentenced to probation.

    In Hodgkins’s case, Sedky cited FBI Director Christopher A. Wray’s testimony in March to the Senate that the problem of homegrown violent extremism is “metastasizing,” with some actors growing emboldened by the Capitol riot.

    “That attack, that siege, was criminal behavior, plain and simple, and it’s behavior that we, the FBI, view as domestic terrorism,” Wray told the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 2.

    Sedky also asked U.S. District Judge Randolph D. Moss of Washington to recognize prior court findings that though individuals convicted of such behavior may have no criminal history, their beliefs make them “unique among criminals in the likelihood of recidivism.”

    Hodgkins pleaded guilty on June 2 to one felony count of entering the Capitol to obstruct Congress, a common charge being used by prosecutors. Unlike other defendants, he was not accused of other wrongdoing or involvement with extremist groups, nor did he enter a cooperation deal with prosecutors. Under advisory federal guidelines, he could face a prison sentence of 15 to 21 months.

    Hodgkins poses an intriguing example for defendants against whom prosecutors have threatened to seek enhanced domestic terrorism penalties, lawyers said. Such enhancements, if found to apply, could more than double a defendant’s guidelines range or otherwise increase recommended penalties, although judges would have the final say.

    In Hodgkins’s case, prosecutors did not ask the judge to apply the enhancement, even though they wrote Wednesday that his conduct met the definition of violence “calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion.”

    Instead, prosecutors said a “midpoint” sentence in Hodgkins’s existing range was appropriate, but still urged Moss to consider the importance of dissuading future acts of domestic terrorism.

    Hodgkins has asked for a below-guidelines sentence of probation. His attorney urged Moss to follow the example of President Abraham Lincoln’s planned approach to the defeated South after the Civil War, before he was assassinated.

    “Today, this Court has a chance to make a difference,” Tampa attorney Patrick N. Leduc wrote, asserting that America now is “as divided as it was in the 1850s” on racial and regional lines.

    “We have the chance to be as Lincoln had hoped, to exercise grace and charity, and to restore healing for those who seek forgiveness. Alternatively, we can follow the mistakes of our past: to be harsh, seek vengeance, retribution, and revenge, and continue to watch the nation go down its present regrettable path,” Leduc said.

    Lawyers familiar with the Capitol probe have said the case illustrates how prosecutors are taking a carrot-and-stick approach in plea talks, threatening to hit some defendants with tougher sentencing guidelines calculations while showing some flexibility for those not accused of any violent conduct in a bid to resolve cases short of trial.

    For example, another Jan. 6 defendant pleaded guilty Wednesday to the identical charge as Hodgkins. However, Josiah Colt, 34, of Idaho, faced a sentencing guidelines range three times as high, 51 to 63 months, after admitting that he came armed to Washington and was with others accused of violently interfering with police. Colt, however, entered a cooperation deal, implicating two men he was with in plea papers and agreeing to aid investigators in exchange for a recommendation of leniency.

    Several defense attorneys in the probe privately called prosecutors’ tactics draconian in some cases, saying they are threatening years of prison time for individuals not charged with violence and giving them little choice but to face trial.

    In plea papers, Hodgkins acknowledged that he was recorded holding a red, white and blue “Trump 2020” flag and wearing a dark Trump T-shirt as he stood next to the Senate dais on Jan. 6 as other people shouted, cheered and prayed. They included a shirtless man wearing horns and face paint at the vice president’s chair. Hodgkins wore eye goggles at one point and pulled latex gloves on and off in a bid to aid another rioter.

    The government said it recognized that Hodgkins “did not personally engage in or espouse violence or property destruction,” accepted responsibility early, and has taken “significant steps” toward rehabilitation.

    Capitol riot sentencing: Government seeks 18 months prison for Paul Allard Hodgkins. - The Washington Post


    If someone can get years for having a bag of pot in some states these fucking asswipes should get multiple years -- every single one of them who entered the Capital on that day. 
    The bag of pot thing is 100% spot on but what about the people that the Capitol Police allowed to enter the building? Not everyone broke down doors to get inside.

    Now it's the police who were attacked and assaulted who are at fault? 
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 6,086
    Listen to that crowd of Blue Lives Matter fanatics cheer as the mob starts attacking the police officer. Hard to beleive some of the cops just stood by & let the crowd go in. 

  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 25,096
    JB16057 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JB16057 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JB16057 said:
    Megan Kelly apparently thinks the media overacted to the Jan 6 tourist visits.


    You mean the same media that was comparing January 6 to September 11 & December 7?
    Should I believe her or my lying eyes?

    I don't blame you for mocking or not believing Megyn Kelly but a broken clock is right twice a day.
    It’s not a matter of belief. I watched it myself.  I don’t need anyone to tell me or interpret the violence I watched that day.  Do you?  Did Fox change your mind, or the whole afternoon were you thinking this is all good, just some tourists?
    When I hear that Megyn Kelly thought it was overblown by the media, I think of the comparisons that the media made to September 11 and December 7 which aren't even close to January 6.
     
    I didn't think it was just some tourists nor do I believe it to be an insurrection. Had those people wanted an insurrection, they would've all brought their weapons and an actual insurrection would've been attempted.
    BULLSHIT , take this crap over to wherever the they believe it not here ! It was an insurrection period..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 18,665
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 4,592
    Poncier said:
    Not very long. So this is supposed to give an idea of what the future sentences will be with the insurrectionists who were attacking officers and were recorded being extremely violent and destructive. There was a lot of damage. I wonder how long their sentences could be?

    https://www.google.com/search?q=photos+of+capitol+damage&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS736US736&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj48pWY2O_xAhVJVc0KHX-EAIgQ_AUoAXoECAcQAw&biw=1178&bih=656&dpr=1.1


    Falling down,...not staying down
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 12,696
    Kat said:
    Poncier said:
    Not very long. So this is supposed to give an idea of what the future sentences will be with the insurrectionists who were attacking officers and were recorded being extremely violent and destructive. There was a lot of damage. I wonder how long their sentences could be?

    https://www.google.com/search?q=photos+of+capitol+damage&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS736US736&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj48pWY2O_xAhVJVc0KHX-EAIgQ_AUoAXoECAcQAw&biw=1178&bih=656&dpr=1.1


    Yeah this guy supposedly didn't damage anything or attack anyone, so you'd expect the ones caught on camera assaulting the Capitol Police and destroying things get longer sentences.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,779
    edited July 19
    dankind said:

    obstruction of official proceeding

    up to 20 yrs on conviction. seen on senate floor with a fuckstick flag...

    but now he has a felony on his record.....

    couple lines from. satans bed come to mind right about now.....
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
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