Better coach? Belichick or Saban?

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  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,956
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    pjhawks said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    pjhawks said:
    Poncier said:
    The simple answer about the 2 Bills:

    Parcells never won a title without Belichick
    Belichick won 6 titles without Parcells
    and Belichick never won a title without Tom Brady and has a losing record pre and post Brady.  We shall see how Belichick's career ends up Post Brady.  I would rank Belichick above Parcells for sure though. 
    But he went 11-5 Without TB12 and missed the playoffs because NFL.
    1x.  Combined record Pre-Brady and Post-Brady he has a losing record.  Do you think Phil Jackson is the best NBA coach because he coached Jordan, Kobe and Shaq?
    I don't follow the NBA and could care less. You're whole premise seems to be that without TB12, Belichick can't be successful. And yet he was. What were the rosters or organizations like that he worked for pre/post TB12? Cleveland? And one year with Cleveland, he went 11-5 and made the playoffs, going 1-1. Sure, he can't win without TB12. First season post TB12 is covid addled. Think he surpasses Shula's all time wins? Think he gets back in the playoffs/superb owl? Oh, and he went 3-1 with Garappolo/Brissett under center, no TB12. Sure, can't win without TB12.
    Will he get back to playoffs? most likely but let's see if he can beat out Buffalo in the next few years for a Division title.  Unless he coaches about another 7 or 8 years I don't see him getting back to a Super Bowl.  And I don't see him coaching 7 or 8 more years.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,648
    Poncier said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    And last time I checked, 14-6, without TB12, exclusive of covid, is a winning record. And even so with it, 21-15. Sure, can't win without TB12. Think if Bill 8 Times was with Cleveland this year that they'd be where they are?
    You're overlooking his first year in NE when he was 5-11, and the 0-2 start in 2001 with Bledsoe before Mo Lewis attacked.
    That makes him 26-28 as pats coach without Brady (actually 25-28 as Brady started the first game of 2008 which they won)
    And he was 36-44 in Cleveland.
    So without Tom Brady as his starter he is 61-72. with Brady he is 219-64. 
    Brady makes a difference. 
    I subscribe to the theory that it was both, not either one, but we will see going forward to what level Bill can get the Pats with other QBs.
    I don't think its TB12 or Bill, its the whole damn organization. And shit changes. Good drafts, bad drafts, QB forgoing salary to keep players, etc. Draft picks working or failing on the field, trades, injuries, ownership wanting to be cheap or spend like drunken sailors to get talent, etc. Key calls in certain situations, QB execution at others and huge defensive plays at key moments. Some might argue the equipment manager plays a role in a team's success, or lack thereof ;) . To chalk up success of a team to just a comparison of coach versus QB is silly in my opinion. Hell, throw in NFL officiating in there as well. But lets see what happens going forward in a non-covid season and what the Pats organization looks like versus TB12 in TB and his success. Weren't the Browns a crap organization when Bill 8 times was there? 
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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,598
    I don't follow college much but it's Belichick. He's the NFL goat and Saban failed in the NFL. Plus the Giants 2 SB teams in the 80's were largely lead by the defense of which he was the coordinator. 
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  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,003
    Belichick by far. One coaches men and has to build a team through drafts/trades/free agency. The other coaches boys and gets all the best recruits. 

    Saban actually wasn’t that awful with the Dolphins. 9-7 his first year with a terrible roster, and 6-10 the following year with lots of injuries. But talk about “when the going gets tough...” He hightailed it back to the safety of CFB as fast as he could. That’s why I always respected how Pete Carroll went about things. Struggled in the NFL, dominated in college, then tried NFL again, and succeeded (when he could’ve failed again). Saban doesn’t have it in him to leave his comfort zone again. 
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,599
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Belichick by far. One coaches men and has to build a team through drafts/trades/free agency. The other coaches boys and gets all the best recruits. 

    Saban actually wasn’t that awful with the Dolphins. 9-7 his first year with a terrible roster, and 6-10 the following year with lots of injuries. But talk about “when the going gets tough...” He hightailed it back to the safety of CFB as fast as he could. That’s why I always respected how Pete Carroll went about things. Struggled in the NFL, dominated in college, then tried NFL again, and succeeded (when he could’ve failed again). Saban doesn’t have it in him to leave his comfort zone again. 
    What if the Dolphins draft Breeze?  Game changer for sure.

    I like the What If's...
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,003
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Belichick by far. One coaches men and has to build a team through drafts/trades/free agency. The other coaches boys and gets all the best recruits. 

    Saban actually wasn’t that awful with the Dolphins. 9-7 his first year with a terrible roster, and 6-10 the following year with lots of injuries. But talk about “when the going gets tough...” He hightailed it back to the safety of CFB as fast as he could. That’s why I always respected how Pete Carroll went about things. Struggled in the NFL, dominated in college, then tried NFL again, and succeeded (when he could’ve failed again). Saban doesn’t have it in him to leave his comfort zone again. 
    What if the Dolphins draft Breeze?  Game changer for sure.

    I like the What If's...
    You mean signed Brees as a free agent (in 2006), and yes, as a Dolphins fan, I've thought about this many times. I've concluded the following are most likely if the Dolphins signed him....

    For Brees: He's not a Super Bowl champion nor the all-time leading passer
    For Miami: Maybe an additional playoff appearance or two. 
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,599
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Belichick by far. One coaches men and has to build a team through drafts/trades/free agency. The other coaches boys and gets all the best recruits. 

    Saban actually wasn’t that awful with the Dolphins. 9-7 his first year with a terrible roster, and 6-10 the following year with lots of injuries. But talk about “when the going gets tough...” He hightailed it back to the safety of CFB as fast as he could. That’s why I always respected how Pete Carroll went about things. Struggled in the NFL, dominated in college, then tried NFL again, and succeeded (when he could’ve failed again). Saban doesn’t have it in him to leave his comfort zone again. 
    What if the Dolphins draft Breeze?  Game changer for sure.

    I like the What If's...
    You mean signed Brees as a free agent (in 2006), and yes, as a Dolphins fan, I've thought about this many times. I've concluded the following are most likely if the Dolphins signed him....

    For Brees: He's not a Super Bowl champion nor the all-time leading passer
    For Miami: Maybe an additional playoff appearance or two. 
    You think Miami is THAT bad of an organization?

    I do too, lol.

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