Anyway, luce, I can see why you'd see it this way but I took from the opening lines:
waiting, watching the clock, it's 4 o'clock, it's got to stop, tell him, take no more, she practices her speeches, he opens the door, she rolls over, pretends to sleep as he looks her over.......that this is NOT about a battered woman.
Coz no battered woman I know is practicing to speak up.
They know what will happen if they do.
The whole song sounds like apathy to me. She's here but she still has bright colorful dreams.
Anyway it's all interpretive, right?
But I do agree about Every Breath! Which is why I've always preferred Message in A Bottle!!!
NOw I'll be thr first to admit I don't look closely at the lyrics, but "practises her speeches", is different to "makes her speeches". I figured they were either speeches to defend herself against teh typical untrue accusations that battered women endure, or she practices , but never makes em.
Either way, as you said, interpretation.................
Editing typo's is a special occasion thing, wink ,LOL, ROFL !!!!
NOw I'll be thr first to admit I don't look closely at the lyrics, but "practises her speeches", is different to "makes her speeches". I figured they were either speeches to defend herself against teh typical untrue accusations that battered women endure, or she practices , but never makes em.
Either way, as you said, interpretation.................
Editing typo's is a special occasion thing, wink ,LOL, ROFL !!!!
Yeah, it is lucy. I just reckon there's something about the wording.
Like if he beats the crap out of you, why would you prepare a speech?
Wouldn't you just be trying to change yourself so that you didn't set him off again? Well that's my experience and understanding anyway.
Too busy tiptoeing around to be worried about speechifying.
Yeah, it is lucy. I just reckon there's something about the wording.
Like if he beats the crap out of you, why would you prepare a speech?
Wouldn't you just be trying to change yourself so that you didn't set him off again? Well that's my experience and understanding anyway.
Too busy tiptoeing around to be worried about speechifying.
I don't know, just a thought.
Yeah I guess that's what really happens, but without trying to be "right " or win an argument here, maybe Ed was fitting thoughts into a lyric and got it a bit wrong in the process. Having never been there , I can't say. It is one of the personal processes I help people with, but I have no direct experience. Usually alcohol involved, which takes all logic and reason out of course.
Great song though, still uplifting to me despite what I think about the lyrics, and really neat to play. It's one of the first you will learn if you ever get that guitar thing happening.
Yeah I guess that's what really happens, but without trying to be "right " or win an argument here, maybe Ed was fitting thoughts into a lyric and got it a bit wrong in the process. Having never been there , I can't say. It is one of the personal processes I help people with, but I have no direct experience. Usually alcohol involved, which takes all logic and reason out of course.
Great song though, still uplifting to me despite what I think about the lyrics, and really neat to play. It's one of the first you will learn if you ever get that guitar thing happening.
Oh no luce!! I agree! We will never personally know what Ed meant. He probably doesn't remember himself. Could have changed meaning for him over the years too! That's the beauty of lyrics, you filter them with the experience and knowledge that you have at the time!! Case in point me idiotically singing Oasis' Morning Glory at the top of my lungs for weeks til my dear friend laughingly told me what Morning Glory was!!! Oh the shame!
Yeah, I agree the song could most definitely be about physical abuse, I guess I just missed that at the time or it seemed to fit my circumstance better as emotional abuse. Anyway, like you said, great song, very uplifting musically and something, that I will definitely be learning to play!!
Just as soon as I get organized!!
Oh no luce!! I agree! We will never personally know what Ed meant. He probably doesn't remember himself. Could have changed meaning for him over the years too! That's the beauty of lyrics, you filter them with the experience and knowledge that you have at the time!! Case in point me idiotically singing Oasis' Morning Glory at the top of my lungs for weeks til my dear friend laughingly told me what Morning Glory was!!! Oh the shame!
Yeah, I agree the song could most definitely be about physical abuse, I guess I just missed that at the time or it seemed to fit my circumstance better as emotional abuse. Anyway, like you said, great song, very uplifting musically and something, that I will definitely be learning to play!!
Just as soon as I get organized!!
Ah, now you've got me laughing again !!!!!!!! ROFL in fact !!
MInd you The Verve's "Staring at the heavens with a tear in my eye" form Bittersweet Symphony playing over teh PA in a conservative Dunedin hotel once had me quietly chuckling as well.
to me it is about abuse (not necessarily physical), a women in an abusive relationship who sees no other better alternative than to stay in that relationship. thats what i get out of it anyways
i have wished for so long, how i wish for you today
JEFFREY ROSS ROGERS 1975-2002
Yeah, it is lucy. I just reckon there's something about the wording.
Like if he beats the crap out of you, why would you prepare a speech?
Wouldn't you just be trying to change yourself so that you didn't set him off again? Well that's my experience and understanding anyway.
Too busy tiptoeing around to be worried about speechifying.
I don't know, just a thought.
when she practises her speeches. that is the speech she will use to get away from him. when she decides she's really had enough. but in the end she can't get away she doesn't have the strength. she doesn't feel she is worthy of someone better. she just practices the speech but never says it to him.
and no you don't change yourself so you 'don't set him off'. you get the fuck out of there. cause nothing you do will be good enough for him.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Ah, now you've got me laughing again !!!!!!!! ROFL in fact !!
MInd you The Verve's "Staring at the heavens with a tear in my eye" form Bittersweet Symphony playing over teh PA in a conservative Dunedin hotel once had me quietly chuckling as well.
:D:D:D And don't you hate the songs with catchy tunes and innapropriate lyrics? The one's you can't stop singing to yourself but you really shouldn't?
Had a real problem there a few years back when Machine Gun Fellatio released I'm a Mother F**ker on a motorcycle!!! NOT an appropriate song to be singing in a subdued and sensible medical research environment!!!
:D:D:D And don't you hate the songs with catchy tunes and innapropriate lyrics? The one's you can't stop singing to yourself but you really shouldn't?
Had a real problem there a few years back when Machine Gun Fellatio released I'm a Mother F**ker on a motorcycle!!! NOT an appropriate song to be singing in a subdued and sensible medical research environment!!!
Hey Jeans, you've woken up from your Nana Nap.
Never mind, I've kept the pot boiling for you.
I dunno, isn't it a principle of science, that "if the outcome is truly unknown, then only research is ethical". So, if you are not sure what will happen when you sing filthy songs at work, are you not obliged to do so in order to find out ???
I'm starting to suspect that there is another joke going on between us that neither of us were aware of. I'll keep that to the PM's.
when she practises her speeches. that is the speech she will use to get away from him. when she decides she's really had enough. but in the end she can't get away she doesn't have the strength. she doesn't feel she is worthy of someone better. she just practices the speech but never says it to him.
and no you don't change yourself so you 'don't set him off'. you get the fuck out of there. cause nothing you do will be good enough for him.
Ah but women do cate. They make all kinds of excuses and rationales. And they stay. Some eventually do leave, but usually in secret and certainly not making their real thoughts known. Well I think in the majority of cases anyway.
I understand what you are saying though. All the things you would say if you could. I don't know, I just reckon that if it really was a physically abusive relationship that the lyrics needed to be more angry, less controlled or considered. If it was about physical abuse Ed would go there too. Like in Why Go?
The whole opening of the song kinda gives me the feeling of apathy, of being stuck in a rut, of regret. And of coming to accept that despite all that you still love him. Anyway, just my take.
Hey Jeans, you've woken up from your Nana Nap.
Never mind, I've kept the pot boiling for you.
I dunno, isn't it a principle of science, that "if the outcome is truly unknown, then only research is ethical". So, if you are not sure what will happen when you sing filthy songs at work, are you not obliged to do so in order to find out ???
I'm starting to suspect that there is another joke going on between us that neither of us were aware of. I'll keep that to the PM's.
No Nana nap!! I've been at the hairdressers and have come to visit my niece, who has just informed me that she's going to show me how to use the internet!! Too funny!! She's 3!!! Anyway, in order to get me away from Play School before I stick a knife in my eye, I thought I'd check in here briefly.
And here we are discussing the intent of the abuser in Betterman again!
And other assorted musical references!! :D
hehe!! Ah luce!! I think the medical profession learned pretty quickly that I am not the staid, scientific type! We muddled along as best we could, but my clear and apparent lack of stuffiness really was an issue in the end. I just didn't have the personality for it. Anyway, I agree that my "research" was an obligation that I took very seriously!!
Not sure what the joke is, bit mystified, but I'm sure you'll enlighten me.
Anyway, back to Betterman have been playing it quite a bit lately and listening with new ears. It really is a great song. And to hear so many different perspectives has been fantastic.
Ah but women do cate. They make all kinds of excuses and rationales. And they stay. Some eventually do leave, but usually in secret and certainly not making their real thoughts known. Well I think in the majority of cases anyway.
I understand what you are saying though. All the things you would say if you could. I don't know, I just reckon that if it really was a physically abusive relationship that the lyrics needed to be more angry, less controlled or considered. If it was about physical abuse Ed would go there too. Like in Why Go?
The whole opening of the song kinda gives me the feeling of apathy, of being stuck in a rut, of regret. And of coming to accept that despite all that you still love him. Anyway, just my take.
i didn't say it was a physically abusive relationship. she's tired of his shit. the way he disrespects her.
'she needs him/that's why she'll be back again'
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
this is a song that my daughter and i have enjoyed and discussed and i truly believe that 'better man' has been an influence in the relationship that she and i have with each other and the relationships that she has had with the men in her life.
i didn't raise no fool.. she'll never 'dream in red' or dread 'his' coming home.
Down the street you can hear her scream youre a disgrace
As she slams the door in his drunken face
And now he stands outside
And all the neighbours start to gossip and drool
He cries oh, girl you must be mad,
What happened to the sweet love you and me had?
Against the door he leans and starts a scene,
And his tears fall and burn the garden green
this is a song that my daughter and i have enjoyed and discussed and i truly believe that 'better man' has been an influence in the relationship that she and i have with each other and the relationships that she has had with the men in her life.
i didn't raise no fool.. she'll never 'dream in red' or dread 'his' coming home.
yeah!! for dads who actually pay attention.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
this is a song that my daughter and i have enjoyed and discussed and i truly believe that 'better man' has been an influence in the relationship that she and i have with each other and the relationships that she has had with the men in her life.
i didn't raise no fool.. she'll never 'dream in red' or dread 'his' coming home.
That's really cool olderman. That you have that special relationship with your daughter and you are able to communicate so well together. And sharing music and ideas is an excellent way of discussing things.
Just one thing though, all kinds of really smart women, can end up in bad relationships. Just because you are being abused doesn't mean you are a fool.
Even really smart, sexy, funny women have been on the receiving end of abuse. I just wanted to make that point.
Haven't read all the responses in the thread, so who knows if a story like mine has been posted. But a little more then 2 years ago the song was basicaly ruined for me. My girlfriend at the time said to me in an argument 'sometimes I feel like the song Betterman'
Now I know she didn't think of the song on the level that the guy was abusive to his mate, but still man.....cold. I can barely listen to the song anymore now.
In fact the only time I ever do listen to it is when I'm at a concert. Which I will say it is a very moving piece of music then. A whole arena singing along to a song that means so much to so many people for so many different reasons. That is just plain awsome.
Maybe someday I'll be able to listen to the song again,, but for now if it comes up on random on my playlist....skip, or if its on the radio, yup I switch the station.
Comments
NOw I'll be thr first to admit I don't look closely at the lyrics, but "practises her speeches", is different to "makes her speeches". I figured they were either speeches to defend herself against teh typical untrue accusations that battered women endure, or she practices , but never makes em.
Either way, as you said, interpretation.................
Editing typo's is a special occasion thing, wink ,LOL, ROFL !!!!
unfortunately yes...i have no comments about this anymore.
Yeah, it is lucy. I just reckon there's something about the wording.
Like if he beats the crap out of you, why would you prepare a speech?
Wouldn't you just be trying to change yourself so that you didn't set him off again? Well that's my experience and understanding anyway.
Too busy tiptoeing around to be worried about speechifying.
I don't know, just a thought.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Yeah I guess that's what really happens, but without trying to be "right " or win an argument here, maybe Ed was fitting thoughts into a lyric and got it a bit wrong in the process. Having never been there , I can't say. It is one of the personal processes I help people with, but I have no direct experience. Usually alcohol involved, which takes all logic and reason out of course.
Great song though, still uplifting to me despite what I think about the lyrics, and really neat to play. It's one of the first you will learn if you ever get that guitar thing happening.
Oh no luce!! I agree! We will never personally know what Ed meant. He probably doesn't remember himself. Could have changed meaning for him over the years too! That's the beauty of lyrics, you filter them with the experience and knowledge that you have at the time!! Case in point me idiotically singing Oasis' Morning Glory at the top of my lungs for weeks til my dear friend laughingly told me what Morning Glory was!!!
Yeah, I agree the song could most definitely be about physical abuse, I guess I just missed that at the time or it seemed to fit my circumstance better as emotional abuse. Anyway, like you said, great song, very uplifting musically and something, that I will definitely be learning to play!!
Just as soon as I get organized!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Ah, now you've got me laughing again !!!!!!!! ROFL in fact !!
MInd you The Verve's "Staring at the heavens with a tear in my eye" form Bittersweet Symphony playing over teh PA in a conservative Dunedin hotel once had me quietly chuckling as well.
JEFFREY ROSS ROGERS 1975-2002
9.10.98 NYC / 8.23.00 JONES BEACH /4.30.03 UNIONDALE / 7.9.03 NYC /5.12.06 ALBANY/ 6.1.06 E.RUTHEFORD/ 6.3.06 E. RUTHEFORD/ CAMDEN 6.19.08/ NYC 6.24.08/ NYC 6.25.08/ HARTFORD 6.27.08/ CHICAGO 8.24.09/ PHILLY 10.31.09/ HARTFORD 5.15.10/ NEWARK 5.18.10/ NYC 5.20.10/ CHICAGO 7.19.13/ BROOKLYN 10.18.13/ BROOKLYN 10.19.13/ HARTFORD 10.25.13/ NYC 9.26.15/ 4.8.16 FT. LAUDERDALE/ 4.9.16 MIAMI / 5.1.16 NYC/ 5.2.16 NYC / 8.5.16 BOSTON / 8.7.16 BOSTON/ 8.20.18 CHICAGO/ 9.2.18 BOSTON/ 9.4.18 BOSTON/ 9.18.21 ASBURY PARK
finally, FUCK TICKETMASTER
when she practises her speeches. that is the speech she will use to get away from him. when she decides she's really had enough. but in the end she can't get away she doesn't have the strength. she doesn't feel she is worthy of someone better. she just practices the speech but never says it to him.
and no you don't change yourself so you 'don't set him off'. you get the fuck out of there. cause nothing you do will be good enough for him.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Had a real problem there a few years back when Machine Gun Fellatio released I'm a Mother F**ker on a motorcycle!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Hey Jeans, you've woken up from your Nana Nap.
Never mind, I've kept the pot boiling for you.
I dunno, isn't it a principle of science, that "if the outcome is truly unknown, then only research is ethical". So, if you are not sure what will happen when you sing filthy songs at work, are you not obliged to do so in order to find out ???
I'm starting to suspect that there is another joke going on between us that neither of us were aware of. I'll keep that to the PM's.
Ah but women do cate. They make all kinds of excuses and rationales. And they stay. Some eventually do leave, but usually in secret and certainly not making their real thoughts known. Well I think in the majority of cases anyway.
I understand what you are saying though. All the things you would say if you could. I don't know, I just reckon that if it really was a physically abusive relationship that the lyrics needed to be more angry, less controlled or considered. If it was about physical abuse Ed would go there too. Like in Why Go?
The whole opening of the song kinda gives me the feeling of apathy, of being stuck in a rut, of regret. And of coming to accept that despite all that you still love him. Anyway, just my take.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
No Nana nap!!
And here we are discussing the intent of the abuser in Betterman again!
And other assorted musical references!!
hehe!! Ah luce!! I think the medical profession learned pretty quickly that I am not the staid, scientific type! We muddled along as best we could, but my clear and apparent lack of stuffiness really was an issue in the end. I just didn't have the personality for it.
Not sure what the joke is, bit mystified, but I'm sure you'll enlighten me.
Anyway, back to Betterman have been playing it quite a bit lately and listening with new ears. It really is a great song. And to hear so many different perspectives has been fantastic.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i didn't say it was a physically abusive relationship. she's tired of his shit. the way he disrespects her.
'she needs him/that's why she'll be back again'
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i didn't raise no fool.. she'll never 'dream in red' or dread 'his' coming home.
As she slams the door in his drunken face
And now he stands outside
And all the neighbours start to gossip and drool
He cries oh, girl you must be mad,
What happened to the sweet love you and me had?
Against the door he leans and starts a scene,
And his tears fall and burn the garden green
yeah!! for dads who actually pay attention.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's really cool olderman. That you have that special relationship with your daughter and you are able to communicate so well together. And sharing music and ideas is an excellent way of discussing things.
Just one thing though, all kinds of really smart women, can end up in bad relationships. Just because you are being abused doesn't mean you are a fool.
Even really smart, sexy, funny women have been on the receiving end of abuse. I just wanted to make that point.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Nothingman do tell what the link is please?
My dodgy dial up won't play. :(
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Its a live version of Betterman, one of my fav. Just thought I'd share.
i just have to say, the live versions of betterman are some of my favourite songs to hear. the way the crowd sings it always thrills me.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Aw! Thanks nothingman!
Very kind of you though.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Now I know she didn't think of the song on the level that the guy was abusive to his mate, but still man.....cold. I can barely listen to the song anymore now.
In fact the only time I ever do listen to it is when I'm at a concert. Which I will say it is a very moving piece of music then. A whole arena singing along to a song that means so much to so many people for so many different reasons. That is just plain awsome.
Maybe someday I'll be able to listen to the song again,, but for now if it comes up on random on my playlist....skip, or if its on the radio, yup I switch the station.