What To Do?

Karljam18

My family means the world to me. My wife and daughter always struggle to find me a gift for Christmas—mainly because I don’t really need or want anything and find more joy making their Christmas special.

This Christmas, their special gift to me was an autographed Ten album signed by the entire band—at least, that is what they thought they gave me.

I’ve been a fan long enough to be able to recognize the signatures of the band when they are authentic. Even though this was ‘certified’ by some authentication service, it wasn’t one I’d ever heard of and there’s no earthly reason why Matt Cameron would sign that album—and Ed’s signature—it’s like they didn’t even try to forge it properly. 

My daughter was over the moon and felt so happy that she was able (along with my wife) to get me something that means do much to me and told me that we should get it framed for the wall. 

So, here’s the question—do I just suck it up and never tell them, frame it and stare at it knowing that it’s not real and that some crap con men took my wife and daughter for a ride—or do I tell them, show them what the real signatures look like and send it back to get the money back (minus their bogus ‘restocking’ fee)?

it is, after all, the thought that counts and I could tell that the gift filled them with happiness to make me happy. But, it would be hard to have to look at it, knowing people are trying to huck these forgeries to the unsuspecting people out there and having to be reminded that my family got taken advantage of in order to try to make my Christmas bright.

I don’t want to tarnish the thought or make them feel bad or foolish—what do I do? Frame it and keep quiet or return it and try to find something real that would be an actual treasure for my collection?

maybe this isn’t the right spot to ask, but since we all are dedicated fans who collect posters, vinyls, stickers and concert memorabilia, I thought this group would have the most honest and insightful answers.

Merry Christmas to all! May we all return to seeing shows sooner rather than later!  

Cheers!

Karljam

Loujoe

Ahhh thats a bummer. I'd likely display it. Quietly tell your wife what you think and figure out what you both want to do. There may be a window of time to return it. Maybe it's real? The genuine thoughtfulness is real. Tricky, but I'd def tell my wife b/c she might get mad later if you don't. Daughter could slowly be told and learn a valuable lesson not to get ripped off in the future. Win win situation.
Take care and enjoy your family.

lastexitlondon

Post a picture of it there are some good signatures on here to compare?

Hagrid7575

Tough situation.
For me, if I have a loved one a gift like this - only to find out later it was fake - I’d be a little upset they framed it up or displayed it just to keep me happy. 

I’d want to know. And while I’d be upset, some good will come out of it.

besides, the thought was there. The intent was there. And there’s nothing fake about that.

good luck! 

2-feign-reluctance

My sister once picked me up some weird framed plaque with a PJ band photo from 1992 but the plaque was some kind of Grammy acknowledgment from 1995? Anyway, she thought it was something official and a rare find. I kept it until my late 30s, even hung it up in my jam space for the longest time. Eventually it found its way into a box of donations, so that maybe another fan out there would stumble upon it thinking the same thing my sister did. For what it’s worth, if your kiddo is too little to understand that it’s a fake, I would keep it, frame it up for sentimental purposes. That would mean you would have to cherish it for that purpose vs true authenticity. The other factor is money. If they were duped for hundreds of dollars (versus like the $15 my sister spent), then I would return it and organize that privately with your wife. 

pjl44

As others have said, I would post a picture here for people to take a look at before you say or do anything. It doesn't strike me as strange that someone would have Matt's signature on a copy of Ten. You might be right but who knows.

darthvedder

I mean, Matt signed the recent Off Ramp poster they offered in the store here.

tino_11

Only you know how your family would react. But if it was me, I’d explain how much you appreciate the thought they’ve put into the present but you highly suspect it’s a fake. I’d send it back for a refund with a strongly worded email. I’d then use this cash, plus extra if you can afford it, to either buy a real signed album or something else PJ related to hang on your wall. You can then say that you would never have bought this item and put it on your wall without them thinking to buy you the original present.

distant shores

Truth is always best option...  get refunded!  Explain to them that the thought means more then anything..  It's better then that then look at that on your wall knowing that some a$$hole beat them every time you look at it! Tell them that it happens all the time because of how good forgeries are ... 

Tino_11 is right!

Karljam18

All great advice! Thanks everyone! Told my wife this morning and she basically said that if it was a fake, then we definitely should send it back and get the money back. I told her that I’ve seen dozens of legit PJ autographs over the years (lots of items from the Vitalogy Foundation that go up for auction) and didn’t think this was legit—even with the “certificate of authenticity”. But if it IS, by some miracle, legit, I would be a fool to send it back.

But I wanted a second and third opinion. I’ve posted a picture of the autographed album in question. What’s everyone think? And, thanks for all the advice.

Karljam18

on2legs

I’ve never seen a Jeff sig like that one.  He’s got a pretty unique signature and it looks very different.  

GlowGirl

Here is a legit Mike signature. I know because he signed it in front of me. I looked up a few and he has been putting his middle initial (D) in his signature. But I don’t know when your album was supposed to have been signed so the signature may have changed. Good luck. Keep us posted what you find out. 

2-feign-reluctance

Stone’s signature looks off. Have a BRAD LP he and the band signed for me back in 2010 at Vintage Vinyl in St.Louis before they opened for Band of Horses at the Pageant. Happy to post a photo of it tomorrow for comparison. 

100 Pacer

Karljam18 said:

Refund ASAP.

mcgruff10

Here is Jeff’s sig.   he signed this right in front of me after a show in 97/99.  

tino_11

Yeah, I’d be asking/demanding a refund

mfc2006

Completely agree with everyone else. Get a refund. Sorry that this happened.

cp3iverson

100 Pacer said:

Karljam18 said:

Refund ASAP.

^^^^that’s the man to ask.    Get a refund.  Of course be prepared for the “but they signed it right in front of me!” reponse

angry_skull

Take a nice high-res pic so you have a nice memento of the story and the thought behind it before you send it back.

HughFreakingDillon

my first gut instinct as a father and husband is just keep it and don't tell them to protect them from being crushed. truth is always the best option, however. especially depending how much they forked out for it, and it's a good lesson for them to learn as well. 

crushing either way. 

HughFreakingDillon

Loujoe said:

Ahhh thats a bummer. I'd likely display it. Quietly tell your wife what you think and figure out what you both want to do. There may be a window of time to return it. Maybe it's real? The genuine thoughtfulness is real. Tricky, but I'd def tell my wife b/c she might get mad later if you don't. Daughter could slowly be told and learn a valuable lesson not to get ripped off in the future. Win win situation.
Take care and enjoy your family.

i agree 100% with this. 

Loujoe

Great minds think alike^^^something like that!!!!

hrd2imgn

enjoy it, frame it, a know the love they spent getting it for you, thinking about what you would love is worth more than any autograph.  What they don't know cannot hurt them, and their happiness at getting it for you should be more valuable than the negatives the knowledge of knowing it is fake bring you.  Who gives a shit if it is real, they got duped, yeah I would be mad at whomever, but exposing that fraud SOB, makes you look ungrateful and more concerned about the vanity of legitimacy of an object, than the love they put into the process.

Think of it as the shitty drawing your kid makes you and you lie through your teeth and say oh my gosh it is beautiful!  This is that shitty drawing you still love more than anything because they got it for you with the thought this was the coolest gift we could ever give him!

LIE LIE LIE!

densan

Fist I would go to a pro print place and get an exact duplicate sized copy. Take the copy, and have it framed and the back sealed. Then get your refund. Or just start buy contacting your credit card company for their advice before proceeding. eBay/PayPal will be aware that the bank is involved too. Fraud is fraud. Any issues from the seller tell him you will have Becketts verify it's fake, and you have alerted your bank of a possible fraudulent representation of a product you purchased. I'll issue you a legit COA that states it is not acceptable as legitimate. Sell a fake to a Mom and little girl at Christmas. You and I need to go on a road trip. I'd like the opportunity to wish him a special merry Christmas. Good luck

F Me In The Brain

densan said:

Fist I would go to a pro print place and get an exact duplicate sized copy. Take the copy, and have it framed and the back sealed. Then get your refund. Or just start buy contacting your credit card company for their advice before proceeding. eBay/PayPal will be aware that the bank is involved too. Fraud is fraud. Any issues from the seller tell him you will have Becketts verify it's fake, and you have alerted your bank of a possible fraudulent representation of a product you purchased. I'll issue you a legit COA that states it is not acceptable as legitimate. Sell a fake to a Mom and little girl at Christmas. You and I need to go on a road trip. I'd like the opportunity to wish him a special merry Christmas. Good luck

Haha.  This is great.  I like this response best, out of a number of good ones.  This is a tough situation, but if you let this piece of garbage keep getting over on people like your loving family then they will keep doing it.

I have a tube sock and a cue ball and would be happy to roll up on this special merry Christmas with you and my madball.    

dankind

F Me In The Brain said:

densan said:

Fist I would go to a pro print place and get an exact duplicate sized copy. Take the copy, and have it framed and the back sealed. Then get your refund. Or just start buy contacting your credit card company for their advice before proceeding. eBay/PayPal will be aware that the bank is involved too. Fraud is fraud. Any issues from the seller tell him you will have Becketts verify it's fake, and you have alerted your bank of a possible fraudulent representation of a product you purchased. I'll issue you a legit COA that states it is not acceptable as legitimate. Sell a fake to a Mom and little girl at Christmas. You and I need to go on a road trip. I'd like the opportunity to wish him a special merry Christmas. Good luck

Haha.  This is great.  I like this response best, out of a number of good ones.  This is a tough situation, but if you let this piece of garbage keep getting over on people like your loving family then they will keep doing it.

I have a tube sock and a cue ball and would be happy to roll up on this special merry Christmas with you and my madball.    

Anybody seen Richie...? Anybody know why Richie did Karljam18's wife and daughter...?

I'm gonna keep coming back until someone remembers seeing Richie!

Karljam18

thanks for all of the advice. I let my wife know that I did some digging about the legitimacy of the seller as well as posted the picture of the "signed" album so that I could get the opinions of the collective, and she told me to send it back, get the money back and use the money to find something REAL. Fortunately, she didn't spend an arm and a leg on this--another indicator that this band signed album has now been ruined by forgers. 

When I looked up the name of the seller, I found this lovely little article about how this guy has been scamming people for years, changing the name of his business when the fraud gets to be too much for him and continues to operate.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/prestige-collectibles-all-fake-autographs-is-now-sapphire

I guess, as far as crimes go, it's not high up there on the FBI's list, but as one of you said so very well, fraud is fraud. 

My daughter is 15 and, while I love her to pieces for wanting to get me something so special, she needs to learn about the con men and the sleazy operators in this world who will take advantage of the good hearted and good natured folk for a buck. I'm sure she'll be fine with it and it'll give us a project to do together to go on a quest for a PJ piece that we can both look at and feel good about. 

They sent me a return label and told me that my wife is the customer and not me, so SHE will get the refund and any other nonsense I spout about the signatures not being legit will not be met with a reply. I guess they are used to being called out and caught and they would rather just give the refund with no questions asked rather than being called to the mat about it. 

I'll let everyone know when I find the piece that replaces this fraudulent one. The good news is that we live in Seattle ( I was born and raised here) and my wife's school often has their annual gala that has, as one of their auction items, a band signed poster donated by the Vitalogy Foundation. I've gotten outbid the last couple of times, but hopefully, 2021 there will be something I can proudly hang on me wall.

Cheers everyone! Here's to a much better and brighter 2021 for all!

Karljam18

on2legs

Karljam18 said:

thanks for all of the advice. I let my wife know that I did some digging about the legitimacy of the seller as well as posted the picture of the "signed" album so that I could get the opinions of the collective, and she told me to send it back, get the money back and use the money to find something REAL. Fortunately, she didn't spend an arm and a leg on this--another indicator that this band signed album has now been ruined by forgers. 

When I looked up the name of the seller, I found this lovely little article about how this guy has been scamming people for years, changing the name of his business when the fraud gets to be too much for him and continues to operate.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/prestige-collectibles-all-fake-autographs-is-now-sapphire

I guess, as far as crimes go, it's not high up there on the FBI's list, but as one of you said so very well, fraud is fraud. 

My daughter is 15 and, while I love her to pieces for wanting to get me something so special, she needs to learn about the con men and the sleazy operators in this world who will take advantage of the good hearted and good natured folk for a buck. I'm sure she'll be fine with it and it'll give us a project to do together to go on a quest for a PJ piece that we can both look at and feel good about. 

They sent me a return label and told me that my wife is the customer and not me, so SHE will get the refund and any other nonsense I spout about the signatures not being legit will not be met with a reply. I guess they are used to being called out and caught and they would rather just give the refund with no questions asked rather than being called to the mat about it. 

I'll let everyone know when I find the piece that replaces this fraudulent one. The good news is that we live in Seattle ( I was born and raised here) and my wife's school often has their annual gala that has, as one of their auction items, a band signed poster donated by the Vitalogy Foundation. I've gotten outbid the last couple of times, but hopefully, 2021 there will be something I can proudly hang on me wall.

Cheers everyone! Here's to a much better and brighter 2021 for all!

Karljam18

I'm glad it worked out and you guys are getting a refund

Just a word of advice about Charity Auctions in general... while The Vitalogy Foundation is legit, charity auctions are notorius for unknowingly passing off forged autographs to generous people bidding on items.  Be really careful.

pearljim10

I bought a Of Potato Heads and Polaroids book and was surprised by the signatures inside. Looks like it’s signed by Mike McCready, Brandi Carlile, Chad Smith and Will Ferrell. Can’t vouch for the authenticity of the autographs but it seems like it was signed at this show